Hypnosis and the BKWSU

Yes ex-l, I don't know anything about the way medics use the term "schizophrenic", but in the colloquial sense of the term I strongly agree with you. The extreme dualisms in Raja Yoga - both the Cartesian mind/body one and the soul-consciousness / body-consciousness one are bound to create a divided self. It is required of that path and if the mind has to split itself in order to provide us with what we are demanding of it, it will do so. This is the same process by which people develop multiple personality disorder.

However, the distinction in practice between spiritual experiences and mental ones is tricky. All we have are our experiences and then having had them we have to classify them according to our beliefs. The experiences themselves do not classify themselves for us.

If somebody spiked the toli one thursday morning with LSD (and no I am not suggesting this the resultant experiences would feel incredibly spiritual but would be essentially chemical-driven. But many of the experiences would be of meeting Baba, going to the Subtle Regions, going to the Golden Age etc because those are all the content the drug would play with. For some BKs, it would shake their faith because they would recognise that if drugs alone can trigger this stuff then no external reality needs to be involved. For others, they would find excuses to do the drugs again because the experiences were so compelling; and others would start a new off shoot the BK LSD University.

Hypnosis uses such things as suggestibility, hyperfocus and what the NLP guys call submodalities to capitalise on the way the mind is structured in order to trigger changes which ordinarily we cant make. One can easily create the most intensely spiritual-feeling experiences with essentially mere tricks of the mind.

The danger from the BK point of view is that how can they know that their experiences are anything but. And it is a particular problem for the BKs because their meditative techniques are virtually indisctinguishable from the very same techniques that hypnosis uses. But beyond them it is a problem for anyone who thinks that their experiences point to some metaphysical reality. And that includes most of us.

Hypnosis uses such things as suggestibility, hyperfocus and what the NLP guys call submodalities to capitalise on the way the mind is structured in order to trigger changes which ordinarily we cant make. One can easily create the most intensely spiritual-feeling experiences with essentially mere tricks of the mind.

I think that this could be done. Also to register in the mind group loyalties and all sort of imaginative thoughts about the reality of the group. This is where we enter into realms of group "hypnosis" through affirmations (We angels, you Shudras). I suppose the sophistry lies in what is hypnosis and what is condition ... the lines are blurred.

I'd love to see a professional stage magician "give" BKs Godly or Golden Aged experiences. I am sure it could be done. Its worth also remembering that they have been accused of hypnosis across the whole world, in different cultures and since the 1930s. It is not a new question.

ex-l,

not only can it be done, it is easy. And just as easy is taking people to worlds which we know are not real, but which are vivid enough to get the sub-modalities working - planets from Star Trek episodes, Doctor Who, Pixar films etc etc.

What was the name of that Holocaust film in which the Father persuades the son that he was taking part in a game? For the son hell was transformed into a childhood adventure. The intensity of our experiences has no relation to fact or reality.

All those experiences Lekhraj and the young girls had in the thirties which the BK religion is based upon contain nothing within them, nor could they, which might distinguish them from anything else the wonderfully creative human mind can conjure up. Hypnosis is just a set of techniques for triggering such. Unfortunately for the metaphysicists it demystifies our more transcendent experiences.

What was the name of that Holocaust film in which the Father persuades the son that he was taking part in a game? For the son hell was transformed into a childhood adventure. The intensity of our experiences has no relation to fact or reality.

Life is Beautiful (the film).

This thread is very very interesting & knowledgefull. Thanks Brother ex-l, for creating this thread.

I again repeat that, in real sense, RajYoga has nothing to do with BK meditation system.

Define "RajYoga" somewhere. Logically, therefore, what you call RajYoga probably has nothing to do with the BKWSU.

If it has nothing to do with hypnosis, then find or start a new thread in the commonroom if you want to discuss; or the Splinter Group forum, if you want to preach something new.

First step of Raja Yoga hypnosis, logically consists in convincing students that this is not hypnosis, not self suggestion, not blind faith, not another religion, etc ...

Forget about everything you have heard before, don't question, become a blank slate so Baba can write anything on it, clean the vessel of the mind, make it gold through meditation, so it can become the suitable recipient for New Knowledge ... What does it sound like?

Hey, folks, I am procastinating the posting of notes I took from my reading of 2 books on the topic. I need to translate it first into English, so it's a bit of a job! I need some good wishes, please!!

Om Shanti. This is very interesting topic. I was interested in hypnosis for a while several years ago. I had read a lot of literature of NLP technics of trance stages. Also I had experienced one of them on myself.

One man put me in that state and I get what it was only after few days. I understood what had happen only because I knew several methods and remembered that he was doing some things from these methods. I wonder is there any souls here who studied this issue well? I mean really well.

With regards BK Dmitry.

Congratulations for taking a big step forward! Stick to this new wavelength and kind of posts, Brother. Everyone will love you and appreciate your contributions!! Thank you!!

An small but interesting footnote to this discussion ...

I was looking for background information on psychic influences that can effect us beyond the cognitive level and after a few clicks, from this site, saw this quote and picture. I am sure many of you remember the little red plastic ovals with the backlight that made their pin prick centers glow ... these are still hanging off walls in action all around the world. They were popular before all these large, expensively framed and light pictures were available.

It doesn't take much to induce hypnosis: staring fixedly at a spot on the wall and listening to the soothing voice of a hypnotist will do the trick for most people.

Using hypnosis, scientists have temporarily created hallucinations, compulsions, certain types of memory loss, false memories, and delusions in the laboratory.

Hypnosis on left, Brahma Kumarism on the right.

BK-hypnosis.jpg (9.79 KiB) Viewed 14748 times

The very first click took me to an even more superficial Youtube video by a TV hypnotist

You can hypnotise your friends and make them do really fun things ... the first thing you are going to do is put them into trance!

Stare at this spot right in the middle of my forehead ... the more that you stare at this spot, the more relaxed you will feel.

It interested me that, "you have to get them to agree, otherwise it does not work". Listen to the "double bind" reference.

Now, the questions I am asking are, if the first two reference both identically mimic (or conversely BK Raja Yoga identically mimics) how can we separate the two experiences (hypnosis versus BK Raja Yoga) or how can the BK give assurances that they just not hypnotising their adherents, thereby gaining psychic control over them and implanting whatever instructions and ideas they wish?

Inclusion of this video is not to be construed as an endorsement or even a suggest that the hypnotist is in special. It was merely a random choice as an example. So, I offer a spoof ...

You can hypnotise your friends and make them do really fun things ... like give you all their money, property and work for yo for free ... the first thing you are going to do is put them into trance!!!

Stare at this spot right in the middle of my forehead ... the more that you stare at this spot, the more relaxed you will feel.

Hi. Seems that we have been there, as victims, and the tricks work on some humans better than others. Like someone said on a different topic, not all of us felt comfortable at utilizing these manipulative tecniques or sell Gyan under any disguise and form in order to recruit more people for the BIG Vampire. I am one of those who felt that, although I personally took some benefit from the Raja Yoga teachings, knowing that mostly people get used, ill treated and receive shame and insults from the main centers, I would refuse to do any proselytsm. Even though it is difficult to hang in there without doing service!

The only compensation that an abused person gets, in many cases, is that of turning one day into an abuser, wearing also the uniform and acquiring the ranks that allow you to crush or torture those younger and more innocent than you. Remember that after all, the "Shakti Army" is an army, proud to be that and run pretty much like one, with SS and its own police, weapons (look at the language they use!!!), "court martial", etc ...

I thought, "Why should I pick a flower for someone else's bouquet that is going to be put in a vase without water anyway?". I also realize that in my case, and in that of other friends, on top of some healthy skepticism, (lack of faith in BK language), we instinctively felt that "taking drishti" or eating food cooked by certain BKs in particular, was to be avoided. Sure it is an act of insubordination, and you get the tag of the potentially dangerous rebel and traitor by being disobedient.

They were small steps, compared to leaving for good, de-programming and getting the BK stuff out of your system. But what I mean is that deep down, unless we really lost touch with our gut feelings and the primitive instinct for survival, we know what can kill us, and we have a chance to run away, in this case from what someone aptly defined as "Zombieland".

From: Trauma, Memory, and Dissociation By J. Douglas Bremner, Charles R. Marmar

Hypnosis may be best described as consisting of three factors: absorption, disassocation, and suggestibility (Spiegel 1991).

No one factor can explain the concept of hypnosis completely. In this three-factor concept, absorption is described as the narrowing of attention and a disposition for having episodes of single total attention that fully engage one's representational resources.

Disassociation is described as a kind of divided or parallel access to awareness, wherein several systems may occur seemingly independently. Suggest is described as a certain role behavior or the nonvolitional transformation of a suggested idea to a suggest effect.

Classical phenomena of hypnosis are ... catalepsy (uncontrolled falling asleep); age regression; hypermnesia (abnormally strong memory of the past) and hallucinanatory phenomena.

Apparently, according to the US government, hypnosis is "the bypass of the critical factor of the mind and acceptance of acceptable selective thinking".

A couple of quotes here. The one that I want to pick up on is referring to "post-hypnotics" effect ... remnant effects of hypnotic conditioning that, according to CIA papers below, can "last twenty years and will be very strong if re-enforced from time to time."

This is what I believe ex-BKs suffer from and are unconsciously played upon by the BKWSU leaders, e.g. the old phonecall from the center-in-charge, perhaps even the use of the "anchor" device ... the saying "Om Shanti".

I recollect very clearly how we were taught to, literally, encourage newcomers to, "willing suspend their disbelief" before engage in Brahma Kumari trance inducing techniques.

Is the a) to e) list below not identical to the state we were encouraged into? The "establishment of acceptable selective thinking" is so obvious in the BK world that it is not even worth mentioning further.

Hypnosis allows others to bypass this comparing mechanism so that information can go right into the subconscious mind and affect our limiting beliefs and our habits so we can make powerful change right away.

It has two parts:

a) The bypass of the critical factor
b) The establishment of acceptable selective thinking

What is covert hypnosis?

Covert hypnosis is the utilization of techniques and strategies to change the perception and behavior of others in completely unconscious way. It is very subtle to undetectable.

Defenses:

a) get familiar with techniques
b) use your analytical mind more

Signs not using your analytic mind

a) you are completely absorbed
b) inside your mind you vividly follow what someone is staying
c) you take in information without questioning its origin and validity
d) you strongly respond to emotional descriptive language
e) you go with your feelings rather than evaluating the decision critically.

US Government CIA documents, here and here.

CIA document and page number: 140394, pp. 2, 3 Title: Interview with [Deleted] Date: 25 February 1952
 
Q: What are your experiences in general with hypnotism?
A: I have been a professional hypnotist for at least 15 years. At present, I am employed on a very confidential basis two days a week.
 
Q: Can you obtain information from an individual, willing or unwilling, by hypnotism?
A: Definitely, yes. Many of the medical cases I work on are involved in obtaining personal, intimate information, and through hypnotism, I have been quite successful in obtaining this.
 
Q: How far do you think individuals could be controlled by hypnosis?

A: This is a very difficult subject. Post-hypnotics will last twenty years and will be very strong if re-enforced from time to time.

Q: Have you ever been able to produce hypnosis without an individual's knowledge?
A: Yes, through the relaxing technique and on rare occasions [I've] been able to produce hypnotism against a person's will. However, you cannot count on this and to attempt to attach an individual who did not want to be hypnotized alone would be almost an impossible task.

Q: How effective are post-hypnotics; over what distances and time can they be effective?
A: Properly used post-hypnotics will last twenty years. They can be made more effective by re-enforcement from time to time. Post-hypnotics are not affected at all by time or travel or distance away from the person who placed the post-hypnotic.

As a rule, post-hypnotics should be 100% effective in good subjects.
 
Q: Can individuals be made to do things under hypnosis that they would not otherwise?
A: Individuals could be taught to do anything including murder, suicide, etc. I do believe that you could carry out acts that would be against an individual's moral feelings if they were rightly, psychologically conditioned.

 
I believe that BK adherents ... and especially center-in-charges ... are encourage to do many things that actually go against their moral feeling in such states.

There is a video about the government intelligence use of such stuff, below. It starts off a little bit conspiracy theory and alarmist but gets into some controversial stuff.

Properly used post-hypnotics will last twenty years.

The statement from this specialist is enough to silence those who, either innocently or maliciously, underestimate the undue influence effect, play it all down and affirm that nobody forced you to get involved or stay.

Reality is that, once you are trapped in an addiction or a sect, or conditioned, it is not easy at all to get it out of your system. You have them well under your skin!