What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with BapDada)

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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proy

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Who is God?

Post04 Feb 2007

I had a "co-incidence" happen to me this morning. A few days ago a friend asked for the return of a book my wife had borrowed. So today I thought I would take a look at the book before it goes back to its owner. So I reached over to the book shelf beside our bed and picked up the book. As I held the book a printed Murli fell out. It must have been used as a bookmark in the days when I was a BK. The Murli is 23/08/2006, a Wednesday. The Essence reads, "Sweet children, this unlimited old world is now to be destroyed. The new world is being established and therefore, in order to go to the new world, you must become pure." I had to read it twice, but yes, it does say the UNlimited old world is to be destroyed. So that must be to make way for the limited world the BKs want to create. How will they limit it? They will use fear and control to limit us. I will not allow this.

Now here is the "co-incidence." The book is "The White Book" by Ramtha. Those of you who have seen the film, "What the Bleep do we Know" will know a bit about Ramtha. I would not advise anyone to become a Ramtha follower. Although Ramtha explicitly forbids it, his followers often end up worshipping him, just as the BKs end up worshipping Shiva, Brahma Baba, and the Dadis, although that is expressly forbidden also. The interesting thing is that as far as I know Ramtha is the only Western source who talks about Shiva. It is interesting to read just for that reason.

Ramtha talks about Shiva as a god, but not as the God. I agree. Shiva is a very powerful entity, and is androgenous as the BKs say, but he/she is definitely NOT God. Ramtha talks about four levels of consciousness above the level occupied by Shiva. I agree with this too. From my own experience there are levels above Shiva. These are the levels that the BKs want to prevent you from reaching.

The BKs tactic is to take you up to the Shiva level and then to stop you from going any further. They will give you a "fix", Sudesh told me it was an "injection to my third eye", that fix will get you very high. They use drishti to give you the fix. You may remain high, as I did, for several months. This they call "flying", also known as the "Honeymoon Period". While you remain on that level, and most of the Sisters do not even reach that level, they are feeding off your energy as if you were a human battery. Most of the Sisters will only reach the level of devotion to Brahma Baba, who is also a real entity, much lower in vibration than Shiva, at the lower astral level.

Many Sisters will only reach the level of devotion to the Dadis. If you happen to be one of the people who is able to reach the Shiva level then the BKs will be all over you and try really hard to get you in and keep you in. This is because those at the top of the psychic tree are feeding off your psychic energy, as I said. Those who are not "having experiences in Yoga" will just be used as bodies to perform physical tasks, or as "teachers" to pass on the "knowledge" and fish for more souls to suck energy from.

God does not make rules, human beings make rules. We need these rules sometimes to have a society to live in, but we made them. We are already pure, we do not need to get up at 4am to become pure, or give up sex, or eating onions. That is all classic mind control using fear. We are not "children". That is classic cult technique to make us feel powerless.

Look back at that Murli quote again. They want to destroy the unlimited world. It is not a typo. We human beings are gods in the making. We are unlimited. Our consciousness is unlimited. Our choices are unlimited. God gave us one "rule" and one rule only - it is called free-will. We are here to experience God's love by creating our own world with our own free will. There is no impurity in us. God is not "keeping an account" of our actions. We will have to live with the results of our actions and we will have to live in the world which we create with our will power.

That adventure, my friends, my Brothers and Sisters, my dear companions, is called life. The BKs want you to stop living your life. They want to limit you. In their own Murli they say they want to create a limited world. Do you want to be limited? I don't. I am responsible for the world I live in because I create it with my own free will. The free will that God gave me. God loves us so much that we can do whatever we want. If you want to be a battery in the BK machine then that is your choice, and part of your soul's journey.

I was a BK for a short time. I do not regret it. I have learned from it and moved on. Moving on is not easy. The psychic bond the BKs create, the methods they use to enslave your soul, are strong. They will not stop using these methods when you leave. You will have to wrestle the elemental entities they have placed in your auric field and you will have to win a battle.

In Gyan Sarovar, there is my favourite statue of the BKs. It is in the Art Gallery. It is of the Archangel Michael defeating a blue man. I am not a Christian but I love the symbolism of this statue. They are making fun of you here. Putting such obvious symbology right out in the open for all BKs and visitors to see. Michael is the Warrior Angel. The blue world (ultraviolet) is the level of consciousness ruled by Shiva. "Be like Michael", they are saying, and defeat Shiva. When you have defeated Shiva you can rise above and beyond Shiva. When you see that Shiva is not God, then you will see the levels above, and beyond, Shiva. That is your real birthright. The one the BKs want to steal from you.

There is infinite possibility there, and infinite consciousness. It is the point of one-ness, or zero point referred to in the "Bleep" film by the scientists. The Quantum Physicists call it the Vacuum Field, or the Unified field. There has been some talk on this forum about the film, "The Secret". What is this 'secret'? It is the answer to the same questions that the BKs ask you. Who are you? Who is God? Do you really need me to tell you? OK. No more secrets. You are God, and God is Love.

double light

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What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with BapDada)

Post01 Jun 2007

I was replying another post and it came something up to my mind.

Have you been in Madhuban and met BapDada? Well, what or who do you think it was coming to those meetings, mediumistic sessions, or whatever you want to call it giving the Murli? If you have been there you know that there was some huge energy in that room ...

Me, myself, have no good answer for it. But one thing I know for sure, it wasn’t God ...

Do you have something to say about it?
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sparkal

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Post02 Jun 2007

What experience would you equate with being in a hall with God since you are certain that that was NOT God? Is there a textbook expectation/experience that determines whether it is God or not?

I don't have an opinion as such and welcome debate on the matter/none matter. Just when you think you have found God, you find yourself searching again for confirmation. Illusive or what?

Should God arrive on a pegasus with his underpants on the outside of the trousers, cape flailing in the wind?

Is it all just Brahma Baba? That one is certainly there as the face of the instrument (Gulzar) changes to the face of Brahma at times. How would Shiva show Shiva? What face would Shiva use? Is that what miracles are about?

How would the most subtle being in the universe show their true face? :?: :idea:
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joel

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Re: What was that?

Post02 Jun 2007

double_light wrote:Have you been in Madhuban and met BapDada? Well, what or who do you think it was coming to those meetings, mediumistic sessions, or whatever you want to call it giving the Murli? If you have been there you know that there was some huge energy in that room ... Me, myself, have no good answer for it. But one thing I know for sure, it wasn’t God ...

A spirit that believes itself to be God, perhaps.

double light

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ex-BK forum

Post03 Jun 2007

sparkal wrote:What experience would you equate with being in a hall with God since you are certain that that was NOT God? Is there a textbook expectation/experience that determines whether it is God or not?

I thought this part of the forum was for ex-BKs. That's why I was posting my question here. I know the BK answer but I would like to discuss it with other ex-BKs independently of what they believe in ... Thank you
joel wrote:A spirit that believes itself to be God, perhaps.

Yes, I agree with you Joel. My experiences of God before BK were actually stronger than the ones I got in meditation or in Madhuban. And that always puzzled me. Like I had lost a part of my connection with God ... I got it back now, after some years!
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joel

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Re: ex-BK forum

Post04 Jun 2007

double_light wrote:Yes, I agree with you Joel. My experiences of God before BK were actually stronger than the ones I got in meditation or in Madhuban. And that always puzzled me. Like I had lost a part of my connection with God ... I got it back now, after some years!

Everyone gravitates to their own strongest richest experiences.

They would say that you are a lower soul (or later soul) who is satisfied with less, since you aren't into meeting God face to face. And you don't want a deep connection with Dadis and the Divine Family.

To give an example, Rajni was someone who grew up child of a BK mother. Attended her graduation in a white sari. She chose her life, considered her highest calling to be doing Baba's work in association with Dadis, whom she looks up to as models for her own life. "Joel-bhai," she would tell me in a voice that could be sweet with a taste for life, "look at the beautiful life Dadi has created for herself!"

I never tried to talk to her about how I was changing.

We can only do what's best for ourselves, though it can be sad to lose the approval of hundreds of sets of eyes, if we had been depending on them. It is great to feel oneself so strong and clear that one doesn't need to look to them for support/validation.

If I believe they wouldn't approve of my life decisions, and I won't expect to look to them for validation of my passions in life, then why would I continue to stay with them? Will they accept me unconditionally? Probably not, I am not interested to explore that with them, given their history of allying themselves with a dogma that is wrapped around them like a sari and held in place with their own economic interests, coexisting with what can be a genuine service ethic.

I know that Maureen Chen and Rajni were both comfortable with asking someone to make a donation, and feeling that it is for God, not for themself.

That is also part of the Indian tradition of charity. To give and to not allow someone to give in return, since you have adopted the role as 'selfless saint' for the day, at least. There is a subtle pecking order of who gives yet does not accept in return. There is a totally sincere, positive face to it as well.
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alladin

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contemplation in god's company

Post04 Jun 2007

Hi, I just also thought about my pre-gyan meditation and relationship with God, and had a similar one last nite under the moon. Just silence and contemplating. No big thoughts about service, role now or status later. Just a child of God and in tune with nature, real simple.
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arjun

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Post06 Jun 2007

joel wrote:That is also part of the Indian tradition of charity. To give and to not allow someone to give in return, since you have adopted the role as 'selfless saint' for the day, at least. There is a subtle pecking order of who gives yet does not accept in return. There is a totally sincere, positive face to it as well.

This is a correct observation. Many of those who donate (both to BKs and other religious groups) do it sincerely without expecting anything in return at least in this birth, but it is the receivers/takers who sometimes do not display the same sincerity while using the donation.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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pilatus

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Post06 Jun 2007

double_light wrote:Have you been in Madhuban and met BapDada? Well, what or who do you think it was coming to those meetings, mediumistic sessions, or whatever you want to call it giving the Murli? If you have been there you know that there was some huge energy in that room ... Me, myself, have no good answer for it. But one thing I know for sure, it wasn’t God ... Do you have something to say about it?

I've only met BapDada once. It was New Year 2003/04 with around 16,000 Raj Yoga'ing BKs. I'll never forget the huge wave of heat energy which hit me as I entered, so I agree with you on that. I've wrestled some time with understanding/reviewing the experience and have come to a similar conclusion to you - it wasn't (my) God but perhaps a very strong divine prescence.

I hadn't really been able to settle into Yoga but I very clearly experienced the energy of BapDada turning away from me and returning some time later with the message - "Oh! you're with Jesus Christ. If you're OK with Him, you're OK with us!"

This was around the time that another message came through that 100% of the participants had achieved the flying stage. At that point I saw for the first time the change in Dadi Gulzar (on screen) and felt myself lifted and swept away ...

bansy

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Post06 Jun 2007

Folks,

Is the meeting with BapDada a "soul-conscious" event or a "body-conscious" event? If you can see and feel and listen, then it is body-conscious, right ?
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tinydot

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Post06 Jun 2007

pilatus wrote:At that point I saw for the first time the change in Dadi Gulzar (on screen) and felt myself lifted and swept away ...

Truthfully speaking I have never seen any changes in the bodily features. Even all the pictures of normal Gulzar and pictures of BapDada, to me, they all look like Gulzar's body. I think I am going to start compiling lots of Gulzar's picture and lots of BapDada's, shuffle them, and ask several kids to categorize the pictures into two groups based on Gulzar's appearance.

Is there something wrong with me? Or perhaps BKs are hallucinating, tired or conditioned to believe that there will be bodily changes in Gulzar when BapDada comes in.
bansy wrote:Is the meeting with BapDada a "soul conscious" event or a "body conscious" event ? If you can see and feel and listen, then it is body conscious, right ?

Bansy made a good point here. BKs make a big deal on bodily changes, in fact there is none that I think of. All changes you "see" are caused by your own subjective experience. Even staring at the face of any person for several minutes, you sure would find "something" changing in your own brain seeing different faces. Try it with your favorite SS during eye to eye meditation.

The only objective physiological changes in the body is when one goes into trance or meditation, and this partly affects the normal breathing, body's electrical resistance, some neurological circuitry, etc. And sure, you would look more relax and peaceful. That is all you can objectively observe.
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mitra

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Post07 Jun 2007

bansy wrote:Is the meeting with BapDada a "soul conscious" event or a "body conscious" event ? If you can see and feel and listen, then it is body conscious, right ?

:) Yes but there is a difference. You are seeing with the feeling that I the Soul is Seeing through this eye. I the Soul is listening through this ear. You should have the consciousness that YOU are a SOUL and body is a instrument.

IBHS
mitra :wink:
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paulkershaw

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Post07 Jun 2007

bansy wrote:Is the meeting with BapDada a "soul conscious" event or a "body conscious" event ? If you can see and feel and listen, then it is body conscious, right ?

I'd say that it's a 'soul conscious' event perhaps. I remember that I knew when 'BapDada' had arrived, even when I was at home here in JHB and not even near a centre and did not know that he was due. So for me its a 'soul' connection requiring a certain consciousness or awareness.

But as to the 'live' meetings in Madhuban, just look at all the jostling for seating position then body-consciousness certainly comes into it ...

jann

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Post07 Jun 2007

Go to a concert, in a big stadium, with about 50.000 people see what happens ... see what it is doing with you.

Madhuban? ... Same thing!!!! And has nothing to do with God or anything. Just an artist showing some tricks, if it is even that. And telling you stuff all learned by heart. Whatever else can you see when you hear and read Murli's for about a hundred years ... there is not anything else in your mind anymore ... is there?

Jan.
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sparkal

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Re: ex-BK forum

Post08 Jun 2007

sparkal wrote:What experience would you equate with being in a hall with God since you are certain that that was NOT God? Is there a textbook expectation/experience that determines whether it is God or not?

double_light wrote:I thought this part of the forum was for ex-BKs. That's why I was posting my question here. I know the BK answer but I would like to discuss it with other ex-BKs independently of what they believe in ... Thank you.

Sparkal: I have been trying to change my "BK" label for months but cannot for reasons unknown to myself. I have tried many times. Am I being used in some way? Still, it could serve as a reminder to your "judge a book by its cover" attitude. I have not set foot in a BK centre for 1-2 years, what about yourself?

People need to waken up and open up.
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