What was that? ( ... Meeting in Madhuban with BapDada)

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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double light

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Post08 Jun 2007

sparkal wrote:Sparkal: I have been trying to change my "BK" label for months but cannot for reasons unknown to myself. I have tried many times. Am I being used in some way? Still, it could serve as a reminder to your "judge a book by its cover" attitude. I have not set foot in a BK centre for 1-2 years, what about yourself? People need to waken up and open up.

I really apologize. It was rude from my part to just put things like that. But as it stood BK sounded like indoctrination what you wrote, that you're questioning the fact that I didn’t believe in all BK stuff any longer ... And though I think it's very good that everyone can share a forum like this I expect respect from the fact that this is an ex-BK support forum and I am not in the institution any longer.

I haven't step my foot in a BK centre for almost 6 years and I stepped out from there 7 years ago. Unfortunately I became very ill in consequence of all the guilt trip I had after leaving BK. You can search for my story in classical posts from the old forum if you want to know about it; Psychic Illness after Leaving the BKs. One of my conclusions is, if it does more damage than good to so many I don't think it's God himself. I actually had experiences of God much stronger than Madhuban before I met BK. So, in my opinion, and again, my personal opinion, No, it was not God.
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Mr Green

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Post09 Jun 2007

Self-hypnosis.
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sparkal

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Post09 Jun 2007

There is no need for apologies or guilt double light, not from you at least. My original questioning to your post was genuine and not trying to trip you or call you wrong. Perhaps I don't belong in this section as you say, but not because someone refuses to let me leave the BKs. Souls who spend a lot of time judging the BKs for the same things.

Now, I would like to see, on this thread, an apology from the "in charge" superior Gods who are playing at fascist dictators.

Why hang around in the BKs being abused by fruitcakes on power trips when you can get it here. I want an apology from the fascist dictators of this forum who have saw fit to stop me from leaving the BKs for over a year. This is the cause of this situation. I, especially, want to see an apology to double light from the fascist dictators who would play at being God (ironically, the ones I am aware of are atheist. There are no atheists on a sinking ship remember, though, perhaps we become atheist to justify our sexual activities).

When the boffins and techies run that which they have created, it is bad news for all. Bob Moog did not become a musician and play his own synth creations, he knew better. Still, if you were stopped from indulging in power trips in the BKs, you will surely find another way of getting your rocks off.

So, let's have some transparency and an open honest explanation from the would be secret society who like to play God over others. Tell us why double light is being abused by you, and if you can be bothered, you could also explain to me why you are abusing my rights. The right to decide what label I wear. I have been vocally against this labelling from when joining the forum. It is very limited in its vision. It sucks. The seeds of divide and rule. Also the seeds of, I am doing well at the moment, but I will be getting mine sooner or later, or have been getting it. I warned in an early post on this forum about naming and shaming and defaming individuals, there is no self respect in this.

Love and peace double light, sorry you have had to put up with all this abuse from BKs and ex-Bks. There is not much difference when we get right down to it. I will now start dishing out my own brand of abuse, to the authoritarians of this world, who more often than not, have little or no true authority.
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in the night

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Post09 Jun 2007

Interesting post here proposed by "double_light"!!.

On my first ocasion, I met so called "Bapdaba" in "Peace Hall" and sat meters from him. I remember having the feeling of knowing that in my heart, I had already met God. But this time was going to be different. I was going to meet him face to face. I think my faith was not so strong because in a way I wanted to compare what I knew with what I was about to see.

My feelings? ... I felt that surely another being came into the body of Dadi Gulzar and that we had also met before. You know PBKs are convinced that it is only the human soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani ... Well, many BKs said that I was a second generation Brahmin :?: ... then I could put all my pieces together and come up to my own conclusion or delusion; it was an old "buddy" :roll: .

Anyways, I find this topic very interesting because it is the power source of the BKWSU. And the same power is affecting many people who ARE truly and "from the heart" searching for God. What do I mean??

:arrow: I mean that the BKWSU should allow open communication from ANYONE and so-called "BapDada" (even if they are not allowed to be there present). This is enough! We are already in the 21st Century folks. Open your door to the public for the sake of your followers. I propose to throw the first question.

Anyone care to propose this in an official manner to the BKs??

No thanks, in the night

double light

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Post27 Jun 2007

in the night wrote:My feelings? ... I felt that surely another being came into the body of Dadi Gulzar and that we had also met before. You know PBKs are convinced that it is only the human soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani ... Well, many BKs said that I was a second generation Brahmin ... then I could put all my pieces together and come up to my own conclusion or delusion; it was an old "buddy". Anyways, I find this topic very interesting because it is the power-sourse of the BKWSU. And the same power is affecting many people who ARE truly and "from the heart" searching for God.

I have been thinking and thinking about this matter. I also think there is another being channelling there but I don't believe it is God. I do believe this being wants us to think that it is God speaking in an intention of stealing energies, both physic and psychic. We will never know the truth will we? Everything we can do is speculating.

I remember the time when I realized that all BK was just bulls*** that I was always having the sensation that something had been stolen from me, my energy, my pure love for God, almost like a "rape". And once talking with another ex-BK, she mentioned that when she started to want to go away she wasn't really able, because she needed that energy, like a drug.
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in the night

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Post28 Jun 2007

Hello double_light,

Iam not so sure that this entity who refers to himself as "BapDada" is trying to make us believe he is God. It is pretty clear that he is not calling himself "God Shiva" whilst he is mounting Gulzar.

It may just be that he/she himself believes that he is combined with God and so is abusing his power. I have personally felt his confusion through the eyes of Sister Gulzar.

Anyways, I may be wrong, but I didn´t have the feeling that he was doing the harm that you mention. And I just have the feeling that everything in life has a conclusion of some sort.

Lots of blessings for you bud.

double light

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Post28 Jun 2007

Well, it's really something we can discuss and discuss and never know exactly what's going on there.

As for myself I feel cheated on, really. I stayed in BK because I believed that it was God speaking through the Murli, I got extreme guilt feelings because I thought I was betraying God when leaving BK, everything I did was for God, not for "anyone else". And there was something else, coming in the way between me and God, getting something that it was mine and God’s. Imposing me things that I only would give to God.

With intention of causing harm or not ... Well, it's cheating. And I truly believe that the intention is that, come in the way of those who truly in their hearts love God and could get elevation in other ways.

I have been thinking about this issue these last weeks since I first posted this issue here, and I think it is the puzzle piece that was missing in my total rupture with BK. To realize what is really going there ... Who it is, the intentions, that we really can discuss as much as we want without never knowing for sure. But for me it is quite clear right now, that it was not God and that the intentions are of getting something rather than giving ... It gives a lot in the beginning, and after that, it just takes away. There is really some point on talking about Honeymoon Period, and intoxication of the first times ...

After that it comes the real thing, demanding, guilt trip, and most of all FEAR. Because most of the BK’s live in fear of going back to Kaliyug, or becoming impure, whatever.

The first promise is peace and Love and then it’s only fear. Oh well ...
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joel

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Post28 Jun 2007

double_light wrote:[BKWSU] gives a lot in the beginning, and after that, it just takes away. There is really some point on talking about Honeymoon Period, and intoxication of the first times ... After that it comes the real thing, demanding, guilt trip, and most of all FEAR. Because most of the BK’s live in fear of going back to Kaliyug, or becoming impure, whatever ... The first promise is peace and Love and then it’s only fear.

What hurts is that those BKWSU teachers who don't live in fear actually close their eyes to the fear and damage that their extreme beliefs often induce in others.
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in the night

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Post29 Jun 2007

Hi double-light and everyone reading this post,

:| I most admire your genuine devotion for God. In my experience, it is mainly an "ocean-of-love" and capable to wash-away any dirt that the earth may create.

I still think were are equaly great after BK (if not more). Faith in the Ocean of Love is number one virtue. The worst sin for me is not ego, lust or greed. It is surely fear that is the number one Maya (Illusion). Thanks for allowing my euphoria today 8).

double light

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Post02 Jul 2007

in the night wrote:The worst sin for me is not ego, lust or greed. It is surely fear that is the number one Maya (Illusion).

Well, I wouldn't call fear a sin, but sure bring us weakness more than anything else.

That's why it's used by so many as a brainwashing technique. Human beings in fear are easy to control. Brainwashed human beings have a hard time to see clearly or to see the truth. And for me that's what BK is about, fear and brainwashing.
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ex-l

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Post08 Nov 2007

Someone made the analogy that BapDada was a bit like a "zombie" and I have been thinking about it in connection to the legal financial side of the BKWSU mentioned elsewhere.

Individuals' meetings have been reported as anything from "blown out of the body powerful" to utterly mundane. My questions are;
    has anyone ever sat in on the kind of private meetings or consultation with BapDada that the Seniors appear to afford themselves?
    do these take place on the stage or can they take place in private or off season?
    are they recorded?
    as they are vague and open to interpretation as the rest of the Vanis are?
    Does anyone have any examples
Someone else related a story of when one senior Brother was having his ear pulled for not following instructions over a building, or something ... I do not know if this is true but that was how it was related. Does BapDada/Lekhraj Kirpalani 'switch on' and become the businessman he once was?
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arjun

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Post08 Nov 2007

Omshanti.

The compilations of Avyakt Vanis that I have from the 1970s & 1980s are mostly the first editions, which contain the versions spoken by Avyakt BapDada to individuals or groups of BKs from various cities/states from India as well as foreign countries. They are an important record of the Yagya history. But I am not aware if the latest editions of the yearwise Avyakt Vani compilations contains the above versions spoken to individuals and groups also or not. So, I request that whoever possesses the first/early editions of the yearwise Avyakt Vani compilations should try to preserve them because it is possible that the BKWSU may try to remove the portions of BapDada's versions spoken to individuals/groups after the Avyakt Vanis.

Even in the first edition they have published the versions spoken by Avyakt BapDada with selected individuals or groups. In one of the Avyakt Vanis of 1982/82 season, it has been written that BapDada took leave of the children after meeting them for 12 hours. So, one can imagine that if the BKs had published the entire 12 hour conversation of that day, that itself would have become a book. They just published the Avyakt Vani that might have taken 1-3 hours to narrate (given the slow pace at which BapDada speaks) and selected versions spoken to selected individuals/groups.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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ex-l

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Post08 Nov 2007

Thank you. It is valuable, especially for newcomers, to know how matters have developed. I wonder how new BKs feels about having missed so much of the history? A few here remember when there were few enough BKs that each one might have an individual meeting with BapDada. And let's face it, a lot of that talk is repetitive waffle that might have some meaning to the individuals but follows a very well trod path.

I was thinking especially about meetings relating the running of the organization or the conduct of the trustees and management. Are or were there ever private meetings, say in private rooms, with the leadership ... or do they depend on the trance mediums go "up to the Subtle Regions" to deal with that kind of business.

I wonder about that too because even the trance messages seem very vague, e.g. what does BapDada think about this ... "Be cooperative" ... well, yes, what does that mean ... with whom. Does he ever lay the law down. Indications have been given here that they too are watered down.

This is another area where it is not a shame there is not senior BK input here telling it how it is rather than us just dealing with evangelist neo-BKs attempting to hammer down the PR version on top of us.
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ex-l

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Post08 Nov 2007

bkti-pit wrote:I have noticed that each time BapDada comes, he has a private talk with Ramesh Bhai (mike taken away). I wonder what they are talking about?
bansy wrote:Yes, well noticed. At the end of BapDada meetings, after each service region, the double foreigners and service wings are praised, and the occasional Dadi is praised, the BKs sitting at the front are then invited up on stage to sit around BapDada.

There is a lot of commotion around as chairs are pulled up for the Dadis to sit on, with the translator not knowing what is going on. So we all simply become detached observers whilst sitting in front of BapDada!

Why is the mike taken away?

Instead, there are helpers dishing out tolis in the audience further distracting what is happening on stage. Music is blasted about in the background. You get one of the senior Sisters (usually Shashibhen) making announcements. No-one needs the toli at the time, you should be already well nourished by the end of the meeting. So now, with these big screens, you watch the events on the stage as if the movie had changed from audible to silent mode.

I wonder how many people in the audience really wonder what is going on during this time.

Excuse me for hijacking a bansy quote from another thread but thanks.
    Does his mood change?
    Does he become more serious and practical?
    Does he talk quicker or even listen?
    Is it conversational or one way?
I always wondered why he might need to ask, when surely he should know. What is the mood of the Seniors during and after? It sounds like Lekhraj Kirpalani checking up on the family business to me!

saraquel

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Post19 Nov 2007

Excuse me for hijacking a bansy quote from another thread but thanks.
ex-l wrote:
    Does his mood change?
    Does he become more serious and practical?
    Does he talk quicker or even listen?
    Is it conversational or one way?
I always wondered why he might need to ask, when surely he should know. What is the mood of the Seniors during and after? It sounds like Lekhraj Kirpalani checking up on the family business to me!

Hi everyone

I am new to this site but not new to the BKs. I was a serious (pukka) member for just over 10 years, from 1980 to around 1991 - my memory for precise years gets hazier as time goes on.

When I first went to Madhuban, in the early 80's, there were about 300 non-Indian BKs at Madhuban at any point during the months December to February. We met BapDada in the meeting hall, whose name escapes me, but is up the steps next to Baba's Hut (on one occasion we met BapDada in the history hall).

BapDada would come every few days - maybe every 3 or 4 days, I don't remember exactly - and each time he came he would speak a Murli, which would take about an hour and a half. And then from about 9pm onwards, he would meet us.

In a 3 or 4 week visit, any individual would meet BapDada two or three times. First you would meet in a group, consisting of your country or your centre – so about 8-12 at a time. BapDada would appraise the group, looking at each in turn, for maybe 3 minutes and then talk about what he felt were the strengths and weaknesses. Then you would meet in turn. BapDada would look at you for some time, maybe a minute or more, then speak to you. Many people asked questions and had short interchanges. The personal meeting was about 4 – 5 minutes long. What BapDada said or did not say to each individual could cause a hell of lot of problems. I remember one Sister who was devastated because Baba said the same thing to her (almost word for word) as the previous year.

Once BapDada had met everyone he was going to meet that night, which usually went on until about 1 am in those days, the people who had not gone to bed (maybe 40 or so) would gather round and BapDada would chat with us and laugh and tease and then throw toli (sweets) into the group.

Then Dadi, Didi (she died in 1981 I think, I only met her on my first visit) and Dadi Janki would sit close to Baba and talk to him in Hindi. Although there was no translation, I remember these discussions as being very practical. For instance Dadi would say that nothing was decided about some event or trip until they had spoken to Baba about it. Then the day after Baba had come, Dadi would announce what was going to happen.

As time went on and Om Shanti Bhavan was built at Madhuban, numbers increased and you would only meet BapDada once in a visit. The numbers were such that BapDada would sometimes stay until 6 in the morning meeting people – hence the 12 hours mentioned in someone’s post. The meetings between BapDada and the Seniors continued (but there was no throwing of toli anymore!).

These meetings were a discussion, a conversation, an exchange of ideas and views.

So, yes ex-l, BapDada displayed a number of ‘moods’ and modes of interaction.

Saraquel
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