Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

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enlightened

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Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post21 Mar 2009

Hi

I am interested in gaining some knowledge about the contrast between the different types of psychotherapy available and wondered if anyone has either personally undergone a particular kind of therapy in situations of abuse, trauma, sects etc. or has studied the differences.

Is there a difference between the psychodynamic approach, the gestalt approach and the psyhoanalytic psycotherapy approach? If so, can anyone share any light as to what the differences are? Which type of therapy would be most beneficial for situations of sexual, verbal, emotional abuse, suppression and repression from childhood, complexities in adulthood resulting from a child being a victim of influence of a cult such as BKs.

I would be particularly interested to hear some real experiences of people who have undergone a particular type of therapy. I have tried to research the difference on google, but am unable to find some good explanation. The only thing that I discovered was that in psychoanalytic psychotherapy, you need to attend 3-5 times a week for 2 - 3 years. has anyone tried psychanalytic psychotherapy? If so, could you please share your experience either on forum or by pm.

Any help will be highly appreciated.

Many thanks
Regards
Enlightened

Terry

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post22 Mar 2009

enlightened wrote:Is there a difference between the psychodynamic approach, the gestalt approach and the psyhoanalytic psycotherapy approach? If so, can anyone share any light as to what the differences are? Which type of therapy would be most beneficial for situations of sexual, verbal, emotional abuse, suppression and repression from childhood, complexities in adulthood resulting from a child being a victim of influence of a cult such as BK's.

All these therapies have evolved in the last 100 years, and all have common roots.

Psychoanalysis is what is popularly understood as therapy. Founded by Freud, it is called "the talking cure", lying or sitting comfortably and talking through everything. It is distinct from -

Analytical psychology named as such by Carl Jung after he (and others) split with Freud. Jung felt Freud emphasised the sex drive as a cause and ignored other factors. (This was an inevitable reflection of their realities, as Freud mainly dealt with neurotic repressed Viennese middle class women, while Jung worked with psychotics in an asylum). Both speak of the unconscious. Freud (and psychoanalysis) saw the unconscious like a closet where unwanted things were repressed and hidden. Jung accepted that, but felt that it held much much more as well, holding potentials and insights that the conscious mind alone could not. He is a main influence on all "depth psychology" approaches.

Psychodynamic therapy is a modern depth psychology. Depth psychology means to work with the unconscious. It primarily comes from Jung, as well as Adler (who was also part of that circle in the early days) and others. It takes in other influences too.

Gestalt therapy works very much in the present moment. Depending on the therapist it can be akin to a depth psychology - e.g. free association, creative imagination, or with a less skilled therapist it might seem more like "life coaching".

Most depth psychology therapists (Jungians, psychodynamic, sacred psychology etc and some gestalt therapists) are usually well versed in other areas, i.e. they are not "blinkered" by one doctrinaire approach. They need to be experienced and broad minded, and willing to struggle with you and for you, at least in the time allocated.

One modality may seem more attractive than another, but there are mediocre therapists as well as good ones in each modality. As stated elsewhere, you need to feel a good rapport with the therapist, if you dislike them, or cannot communicate, it is hardly worthwhile. A mediocre therapist will stroke your ego, make you feel good about yourself, reinforce self respect - which may be exactly what you need. A good therapist will give you that too, if that's all you are ready for. But they will, when the signs are there that you are ready for it, shake you up a bit too, leave you unsettled, even make you angry (and possibly stop attending for a bit because of that) but when the dust has settled you'll feel that something shifted, appreciate what happened, and you will seek to follow up.

In the modalities mentioned above, they all recognise the value of dreams. Dreams come from you. You only dream what you are ready to integrate, or if you like, ready to deal with. The therapist should be comfortable with dream work (some are not and avoid it) and will take their cue from your dreams as to what you are ready for.

You can read about it and talk about it, but only when you do it for yourself does it come alive - so you need to keep a dream journal, do some active imagination work, and make improvements to diet, activity, social and emotional life as well, i.e. the whole being.
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tom

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post22 Mar 2009

Dear enlightened,

There is also NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming, an alternative therapy, i have witnessed amazing relatively quick and good results by one ex-BK friend who was lucky to find a good NLP expert.

A simple information about NLP can be found by Holisticonline.com
NLP increases the depth and effectiveness of our relationships, beginning with our self and extending through personal and intimate relationships to our professional and work lives, and finally, to the therapeutic arena or working with others to bring about healing, change and growth. NLP provides the tools that enable this rich connection with self and others to happen.

Or by WikipediaNeuro-linguistic programming
(NLP) is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as "a model of interpersonal communication chiefly concerned with the relationship between successful patterns of behaviour and the subjective experiences (esp. patterns of thought) underlying them" and "a system of alternative therapy based on this which seeks to educate people in self-awareness and effective communication, and to change their patterns of mental and emotional behaviour"

Or a skeptical approach by The Sceptic's Dictionary
NLP has something for everybody, the sick and the healthy, individual or corporation. In addition to being an agent for change for healthy individuals taught en masse, NLP is also used for individual psychotherapy for problems as diverse as phobias and schizophrenia. NLP also aims at transforming corporations, showing them how to achieve their maximum potential and achieve great success.

You can google and find more information.
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enlightened

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post22 Mar 2009

Dear Terry and Tom

Thanks for your replies. I do understand that having a good therapist is the key to recovery. However, I would like some more clarification if possible.

Terry, in your opinion, would you say that psycho-analytic psychotherapy is good for dealing with the above traumas? Do you know why you have to do 3-5 sessions a week for this approach as opposed to just one one session a week for some of the other approaches? Do you know anyone who has tried the analytical approach? Tom, do you know if your ex-BK friend had similar traumas to myself for which they had good results through NLP?

I have a bit of a dilemma as I have been having therapy for a while now. However, due to unfortunate circumstances on part of the therapist, I have no choice but to try and look for another one, which is why I am just enquiring.

Okay, I appreciate very much all your input.

Thanks
Enlightened
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tom

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post22 Mar 2009

enlightened wrote:do you know if your ex-BK friend had similar traumas to myself for which they had good results through NLP?

For me it will be like blinds talking to the deaf ones. I don't know anything about what you have been through. And don't want to know because I am not an expert and can not help you, except hugging you and crying with you. I have also no idea of what my ex-BK friend had problems to deal with.

I can only tell you that I, personally, do not like much digging into the subconscious - if it is not essential. What I have understood from NLP is - in a nutshell - that they are empowering the healthy and strong parts of the person - not patient.

My humble opinion, you have to find your own way with your own instincts through the labyrinth of researches in Google, and afterwards trust God that you meet the right therapist you need.

Terry

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post23 Mar 2009

Dear enlightened

If you have had good results with your current therapist, can they not recommend you to a colleague? Hard to say which approach is best for you - you need to decide, maybe even try them on for size.?

RE: Psychoanalysis - 2-3 times a week! - any kind of therapy should be more effective done that frequently you'd hope! I would imagine that would only be to start, and you'd cut back later. Only the rich and indolent could afford the time and cost otherwise. Presuming you are in the UK - the NHS may be able to help. It is a recognised method, speak to your GP on that.

The NLP that Tom mentions, and CBT (Cognitive Behaviour Therapy) are popular approaches, recognising and working on the consciousness/ego level - what I think, do and say, how I respond etc. I see them as therapies that work inwards from the outside.

Depth psychologies work from the inside out, i.e. work with the unconscious self, as well as the conscious. The unconscious permeates the psyche the way water permeates a fish. Easy to see the fish, more difficult to make sense of the swirls and currents and opaque matter in the water. I hear Tom's uneasiness with it in his post, but I think that would only come from not understanding.

I have worked with it, and witnessed many others work that way. Some have presented with childhood abuse issues, for others these issues unintentionally revealed themselves in "code" in dreams. Others have been coming out of spiritual groups (not BK) etc. Depth psychology acknowledges the spiritual, works with it to enable the individual to understand it for themselves. A therapist I know deals a lot with ex-nuns and priests who have lost faith and are themselves in crisis.

As you know, I run dream work groups myself. I work with "healthy" people as a method of personal development. The principle that guides dream work and depth psychology is that the client's psyche, the unconscious, reveals to the ego what it is ready for. And the person having the dream is the only one who really knows its significance, the analyst is only helping them understand for themselves. Your unconscious actually knows what you can consciously cope with. But the ego, being what it is, often doesn't like the change the unconscious is asking. In your case, you seem willing to learn and change.

The other guiding principle is your unconscious knows what you need to do for yourself. The analyst works with you to help you find your own answers, recognise your own "prescriptions". The dreams will follow a sequence, go from one level to another as you integrate their "lessons", or stay on the same level if you do not. It is fascinating to see how they evolve and resolve over time. The dream journal I suggested you keep really helps you see your changes, and is a great starting point from which to creatively explore for yourself. The therapist will be a companion on your journey.

The Jungian psychologists I know usually do a weekly or fortnightly session, then go monthly once the client feels progress. You determine what you are comfortable with. One important thing about Jungian analytical psychologists is - they have to undergo analysis themselves as part of their training, to understand what a client experiences, and to really understand what happens internally. The same is not required of clinical, behavioural and many other psychology practitioners -so the personality of that therapist is even more crucial as to whether they can naturally empathise, or if they merely deal with you "by the book" and the clock.

I know a number of people who have been in different kinds therapy who have similar histories, and with differing results. Each case is unique and hard to compare - different family dynamics, culture, socio-economic factors etc. As you seem strong and determined to heal, I would not shy away from any approach that you feel is going to be most effective.
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ex-l

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post23 Mar 2009

I would like to comment on this subject but, firstly, I would like to ask some leading questions to both of you. Please bear with me, they will make sense later.

Terry, are you registered with any professional body and do you have professional indemnity insurance covering your practise?

Enlightened, what benefits do you feel that you have gained from the talking therapy you have had up until now, and how?

I am being entirely genuine in asking this. It is not a "trick question".
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enlightened

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post24 Mar 2009

ex-l wrote:Enlightened, what benefits do you feel that you have gained from the talking therapy you have had up until now, and how? I am being entirely genuine in asking this. It is not a "trick question".

ex-l

I have gained a lot through my talking therapy sessions so far. It was absolutely necessary in my case as I had not been able to talk to anyone for over 30 years about any of my emotions/feelings/traumas/abuse etc. You can imagine what that might have been doing to my soul and body. The list of benefits is endless and I do notice I have made some major changes in my life for the better.

The only thing is that, in my case, it requires continuity and it could take years of therapy before I am able to attain a more fuller outcome as there is so much to work through.

Thanks
Enlightened

Terry

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post24 Mar 2009

ex-l wrote:I would like to comment on this subject but, firstly, I would like to ask some leading questions to both of you. Please bear with me, they will make sense later. Terry, are you registered with any professional body and do you have professional indemnity insurance covering your practise?
terry wrote:I run dream work groups myself. I work with "healthy" people as a method of personal development.

I do not advertise myself as a therapist. As stated elsewhere, I considered doing the necessary to get my piece of paper, but it was not practical, so I stay on the level I am at. If someone comes who appears to need ongoing professional support, I refer them on.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post24 Mar 2009

terry wrote:The other guiding principle is your unconscious knows what you need to do for yourself.

I find this most interesting. Does anyone else feel that this could be linked to aspects of 'ego'? Is it possible that we could have taken much BK Gyan on board (into our conscious processes) and then thought that the resultant fight of the unconscious wanting one to 'leave' the BK system was 'ego' when, in fact, it was not.

If anyone agrees with this assessment then the BKWSU's teachings become even more dangerous in their practice as they could be placing the word 'ego' to replace "listening to one's inner voice or inner guidance system". For example, the 'honeymoon' stage of BK life would only last as long as it would take the inner self to begin to re-manifest itself, and this could be one of the reasons why other forms of psychic/healing/spiritual work in the BKWSU is frowned upon.

It could also possibly mean that some form of psychotherapy would be neccessary for every exiting BK.

Terry

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post24 Mar 2009

Paul, I am glad you cottoned on (cottoned on? where does that figure of speech come from?).

I have been trying to say that in different ways in many posts. Someone in the last few days told of how they shared their unease with Seniors in Madhuban and were told it was "ego" - which in BK speak means "arrogance", "egotism", or in other words ''shut up"

Which is what we do, we shut up, put up barriers to other influences, circle the wagons against the wild and savage (i.e. natural instincts) - reinforce the actual ego which has a tendency to preserve itself, resist change to the point of ... mental & psychosomatic illnesses like neurotic or compulsive behaviour, depression, lethargy, chronic fatigue, bipolar disorder. Or just loss of joy in life.

Some people take the mental polarity in stride, but the effect is held in the body, and so on.
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leela

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post24 Mar 2009

Terry wrote:... your unconscious knows what you need to do for yourself
paulkershaw wrote: ... thought that the resultant fight of the unconscious wanting one to 'leave' the BK system was 'ego' when, in fact, it was not.

A very interesting area to look at. I think it especially sheds light on why it is such a struggle for some of us to leave. The more we already had
terry wrote:shut up, put up barriers to other influences, circled the wagons against the wild and savage

before arriving in Gyan, the easier it was to adopt this method of operating within, and perhaps the more disabled we were on leaving. All of those defence mechanisms had been validated and confirmed in me and were still very much in place when I left. It left me very isolated, wanting help, and yet convinced that no-one out there could possibly offer any real help.

Even in healthier post-BK times, I have struggled with
paulkershaw wrote:listening to one's inner voice or inner guidance system

as if it were the road to hell. I cannot say how much of that was caused by the BK system originally, but it was certainly endorsed and strengthened by it.

These days, when seeking help or guidance, be it therapy, workshops, company, or whatever, I am very aware of being guided to the right thing at the right time - as long as I keep my mind out of the way!
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rayoflight

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post24 Mar 2009

I don't know if this should be a new topic or not, but since we're talking about therapy, I thought I'd ask.

Do any of you think it's possible for an ex-BK or an exiting BK to start a relationship again with all this baggage? Does anyone have a personal experience they can share with us? What kinds of challenges did you come up against?

I know some have gotten married but I keep thinking that there will always be the chance of falling off the wagon and running back to the BK refuge once a relationship hits a bump.

I also wonder if the idea of "normalcy" is too high of an expectation after having had such an intense experience. It seems to me that intellectualizing about the idea is possible, but actually doing it is another.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

IMO, and in all fairness ROL, I'd say that it wouldn't be fair on the chosen partner to start a relationship when one knows that one carries past 'baggage'; unless, of course, one has discussed this in details with that same person and he/she has agreed to work with it within the relationship ... Of course, its also not fair to expect anyone to heal our 'baggage' and there's nothing like a relationship to bring out the best, and the worst within one.

My experience of life says to me that one should be careful about taking on anyone's "healing" within a relationship structure too. But we should also define 'normalcy' for ourselves too. One person's sauce may not be that tasty for the next person.
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joel

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

paulkershaw wrote: I'd say that it wouldn't be fair on the chosen partner to start a relationship when one knows that one carries past 'baggage'...

Is there any person without "baggage" of some kind??
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