Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

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paulkershaw

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

Morning from me and evening to you Joel. In answer to your post, IMO, "No, there is not".

I'd say the point I am making is that many people I know have bounced from one relationship to the other without trying to sort out their bagagge. In fact, they have used the relationships as excuses for not working out their 'stuff' and expecting their current partner to do it all for them. I'd see this as not being able or willing to take responsibility for themselves in certain ways, without me sounding too uncompassionate here. Can one differentiate between acceptable 'baggage' and that which is unacceptable? I'd say that would depend on our chosen partner and their own processes and needs?

In a way, it's as if people often get stuck in a ever-tightening cycle of emotional fall-out and end up saying they'll never have another relationship again. Only to come out to play the next day to say, "Guess what, I met someone last night and he's sooooo gorgeous" ... and off they go again. and again.

But to try and keep this thread on-subject, is the alternative a permanent relationship with a therapist/s? Hmmmmm ... only if he's, "oh soooo gorgeous" ... :|. I'd be interested to try forum-explore this aspect a bit more.

Terry

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

paulkershaw wrote: is the alternative a permanent relationship with a therapist/s? Hmmmmm ... only if he's "oh soooo gorgeous"... I'd be interested to try forum-explore this aspect a bit more.

There is a common phenomenon in therapy callled "transference" which also plays out in other relationships. It is advisable to be aware of this so you don't expect your lover/spouse to be your therapist, or your parent. Nor should you expect your therapist to be your lover or parent, and so on.

Stay aware of the reality of who you are, who they are, what they can and cannot offer.
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joel

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

Hiya Paul,

I am in total agreement with you. These people should learn that relationships exist to help us go deep into unconscious levels of ourselves. We should be using them to face our relationship issues, rather than scattershot search for the happily-ever-after prince/princess. The gorgeous ones are for flirting only, at least after the first one (or two or three, etc. depending on your polyamory coefficient.)

Terry, I agree with you, too, that a life partner and therapist are usually very different roles. At the same time, partners can greatly support each other's growth by their own process of deepening maturity.
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enlightened

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

I hope that we can all finish up strong like this man says by the end of our journey of healing no matter what method we choose to get there. I hope you find this video inspiring and moving


Regards
Enlightened

Terry

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

enlightened wrote:I hope you find this video inspiring and moving

I have seen this before. Very inspiring. My daughter saw it and teared up too, as it put her life into perspective
joel wrote: partners can greatly support each other's growth by their own process of deepening maturity.

I meant to comment on this word "maturity" in another of your posts where you mentioned it Joel. It is one of a few key qualities that we really need in our friends and relations, and therapists.

Of course, it is distinct from age, which is no guarantee of maturity, and some can be "mature for their age". But where there is age AND maturity, coupled with the other skills and traits, then you have the foundations of a great relationship with a therapist. The real work would only then need to be done on your side; they are there for you, not the other way round.
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ex-l

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

terry wrote:Don't expect your lover/spouse to be your therapist, or your parent. Nor should you expect your therapist to be your lover or parent, and so on.

One of the best pieces of advice I received from a disincarnate spirit entity through a medium was,

    "Don't have relationships with your "clients". Have relationships with your friends and equals but not your clients".
Of course, this is the golden rule in professional psychotherapy too ... IN THEORY ... part of client-therapist privilege.
Prior Therapist-Patient Sexual Involvement Among Patients Seen by Psychologists by Kenneth S. Pope & Valerie A. Vetter

ABSTRACT: A national survey of 1,320 psychologists found that half the respondents reported assessing or treating at least one patient who had been sexually intimate with a prior therapist; a total of 958 sexual intimacy cases were reported. Most cases involved female patients; most involved intimacies prior to termination; and most involved harm to the patient. Harm occurred in at least 80% of the instances in which therapists engaged in sex with a patient after termination. Respondents reported that in about 4% of the 1,000 cases in which the issue of sexual intimacies arose, the allegations were false.

But, actually, what this spirit entity was specfically telling me was that I should look at all my friendships and relationships and ask myself which one of the people that I interacted with were "my friends ... equal ... or peer" and which ones were ... actually ... my "client" in this life. That is, someone who had entered my life to be helped and for me to help them ... rather than expect and form a relationships.

Of course, I did not listen, did not know and made all sort of mistakes afterwards ... BUT ... the outcome now is that I have a better idea of what they were talking about. You could look at your life and ask the safe question. Sexual relationships with "client souls" can be as painful and damaging for the therapist as they are for the clients ... see above. This was one of the reasons why I was asking about whether you, giving that you said you said you had cleints who had been sexually abuse etc, had any professional training, association and accountability.

Incidentally, this particular disincarnate spirit was nothing high-faluting at all. He was Swiss, used to be an ordinary banker apparently and was incredibly down to earth. This is also a lead in to further discussion about the values and pitfalls of other alternative therapies for recovery.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

I am trusting that I can properly and clearly explain my thoughts here (not removing the blame and responsibility of the therapist here) is that the 'patient' sees their therapist as someone who is strong, powerful and who has "it together" (or they wouldn't be doing that job, would they ...?) and this aspect can be so very attractive to an injured soul-energy.

I hesitate to ask if anyone would agree that it may be possible that a sexual experience happening in such a supposedly 'professional' environment, would in fact maintain the patient's status quo (of being 'damaged' or 'injured') by said patient but meantime they're wanting to 'take' on the power of their chosen therapist in the hope of recovery, within their own need for 'power' in their own lives ... It would only take one weak moment by the very 'human' therapist to allow this, and then what does it say about the therapist too? Ego-power trips abound in all forms of life.

I ask this as I remember being 'hit-on' several times by both new male and female 'visitors' to the BK centre I was running all those years back and having to make a choice to move away from their 'apparent' energies. As center-in-charge at the time, I would have been 'seen' as head honcho, in charge and 'powerful' to some extent (in new arrivals eyes at least).

I remember now about some comments came out to me as to how 'serene' and 'powerfully energised" I was and I am saying here that there could be a link here to the other threads about sexual misconduct when Om Radhe was renamed Saraswati. Namely that Mr President of Om Mandli, Dada Lekrajh, must have know about the sexual power he had over the girls/women and perhaps it made him a little giddy on his gaddhi.

Terry

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

ex-l wrote:This is also a lead in to further discussion about the values and pitfalls of other alternative therapies for recovery.

Two thoughts arise from this:

1/ Whatever wisdom and virtue a therapy or a therapist may have, it may even be judged by some superior being as the closest a human can be to "absolute truth", unfortunately it may not be what a client is ready for or able to deal with at that time. Any method or practitioner may or may not resonate with a client on a particular day,or year. The client is living in their own world, by their own paradigm, and the process of understanding or change may be mighty slow, but as long as they keep taking a step at a time, the journey will be made. The client cannot be a passive participant or receptacle. (Drug therapy without the therapy is merely drugging)

2/Following on from that - most therapies are structures or methods which are essentially tools to enable. It is the individual client who is healing themselves. Just as a doctor doesn't actually cure a sickness or injury, they optimise the conditions and situations for the body to heal itself. So too does a good therapy & therapist. And a good therapist would educate the client of their "responsibilities" in the process.
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ex-l

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

We are moving from different types of psychotherapy for recovery to the nature of the client-therapist relationship which is reasonable enough and would, I argue, include the relationships between gurus and chelas, or BK Seniors, center-in-charges and BK followers.

It seems to me that one of the most important elements of client-therapist relationships - the only magical quality I can see - is that they are meant to be - and most are - confidential in a way that chit-chat with friends are not ... nor is talking to your BK center-in-charge, Senior Sister or any other BK.

Whereas the professional therapist can be struck off from breaching client-therapist privileges, in my opinion, the average BKWSU center-in-charge will be rewarded for passing on good information. Not all BKs are this bad or stupid etc etc but there is no accountability or recourse to keep them on their toes and even if a teacher does some terrible wrong, it seems that they will keep them on because they have no one else.

Gurus, (including psychotherapists ;-)), generally have some kind of external controls; a lineage (the therapist's therapist), peer review, professional bodies etc. "Friends" and BKs do not. I am asking if part of the magic is that in theory, with trust established, one can say and explore absolutely anything in The Knowledge that it is safe and will not travel? Do psychotherapists become the respository for all society's tragedy and weirdness?

I have a lot more to say exploring this topic. I think it is important. But, I also want to introduce into the discussion other "soul therapies" such as those known as "chakra clearing", "de-cording", light trance hypnosis work and plain old fashioned "spiritualist healing". Far from being the handing over of responsibility, the good stuff requires as much personal effort - including finding a good therapist - but can act much quicker and deeper. Caveats (warnings) to follow. I am not talking about "going to see a tarot reader".

I would like to propose that BK types would achieve a lot, and feel confortable within, more spiritualist environment and that contrary to the new sales pitch, "depth psychology" (a neologism surely) is not as deep as it goes ... or perhaps all that deep at all. I feel that what has been written - as good theory at least - needs tempered by the steel of reality, which I would like to go on to.

As an aside, I would also like to throw in two names for folks to look out for individual influenced by their work; Carl Rogers and Robert J. Lifton, the latter for his work/position on cults.

Its worth bearing in mind that the last time I spoke to a specialist organization in our area, there were a grand total of zero consultants with ex-cult related specialism available available via the national health organization. I, personally, have never been in a position to afford the sort of therapy being talked about here nor do I know anyone ... and I suspect that will include almost all exiting BKs many of whom come out in a pretty helpless state.

In my "ken" (which means broad knowledge and experience), anyone who blankly recommends any individual to seek psychotherapeutic help via the National Health Service without severe warnings and supprting advice - is being irresponsible for reasons I will offer as a warning.

Great advice in theory ... sucks badly in practise. Psychotherapy within the NHS is known as a "Cinderella service" which means starved of cash and resources. Institutionally, it is pretty much reviled. To get to it, you are going to run the gaunlet of a psychiatrist (chemical brain doctor) who are mostly dismissive of its benefits. Indeed, even the social science of it is pretty 50:50% as how much of a difference it can makes and, given the expense to the service, it is not handed out easily when a "chemical cosh" is much cheaper. Finding the right person matters a lot and you wont get that choice and the service is also dominated by Freudians. More of which later.

"Giddy on his gaddhi" I loved. Would anyone care to talk in defense of the chemical cosh (psychotherapeutic drugs, SSRIs etc) route? I would certainly accept its benefit in the bigger picture of things although would not chose myself. Few outside of the West would afford even it.
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paulkershaw

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

ex-l: "chakra clearing", "de-cording", light trance hypnosis work and plain old fashioned "spiritualist healing". Far from being the handing over of responsibility, the good stuff requires as much personal effort - including finding a good therapist - but can act much quicker and deeper. Caveats (warnings) to follow. I am not talking about "going to see a tarot reader"."

This may also present a problem. Every 'spiritual' healer thinks they're good and every esoteric fayre is full of people flogging their wares as the real true thing. Some of my 'contact's' around me are a bunch of loonies who punt their healing abilities no-end but cannot even find their own way through their messy lives (But they're still lovely people OK OK? :D )

Many governments world-wide are making plans to register this kind of healer (albeit it being on 'lower' scale than that of a qualified doctor, therapist etc). For example at this moment it is supposed to be currently illegal for even a priest to counsel anyone here as they may not be 'sufficiently qualified' to do so. What makes a good therapist? Why would someone choose to go see a 'holistic counsellor' as opposed to a qualified psycho-analyst? Cost? Attitude? Listening ability? I feel it to be far deeper than meets the eye. I even know of some qualified psychologists who are using tarot in conjunction with their more mainstream healing leanings but I'd still personally rather go to a spiritual healer than I would a GP.

Perhaps having been force-fed the disgusting chemical Ritalin as a youngster (which only made me more suicidal at the time) I'd rather choose a more kinder route nowadays? However, we've covered this topic before in many ways methinks. Maybe one needs to decide what it is that one needs to 'recover' from and then try and deal with it in appropriate ways. When one understands the problem, one can then make a real attempt at fixing it.
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rayoflight

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

paul wrote:"Guess what, I met someone last night and he's sooooo gorgeous" ... and off they go again. and again.

Paul, your posts are cracking me up today. Thanks for the laugh.

Now the reason this point was particularly funny is because an ex-BK friend of mine has bravely re-entered the social scene and has found all kinds of, um, interesting men to fill her days and nights. So I have heard this phrase many times in the last six momths, most recently about a famous guitarist she met a few weeks ago in the vegetable department at the grocery store.

Each and every time I know it's just a flirting game but she so badly wants the real thing that she is ready to believe these guys and even creates the whole relationship in her mind before it has even begun. Bless her soul. She's such a sweet, albeit, naive girl.

In any case, I have to give her credit for at least trying which is more than I have been doing. Taking the risk to go out there and make mistakes even if it's just because he or she is sooooooo gorgeous, is a step towards figuring out what we want and don't want.
Namely that Mr President of Om Mandli, Dada Lekrajh, must have known about the sexual power he had over the girls/women and perhaps it made him a little giddy on his gaddhi.

I particularly liked the "giddy on his gaddhi" reference not just for the alliteration but also because it inspires an amusing visual.

In any case, this really riles me up because I have seen how handsome Brahmins have used their sexual energy as an excuse to pull women into their center (and probably men too) but really just to stroke their ego because obviously they couldn't stroke anything else :shock:. And, justifiably so, because they were using their talents! Is this not some sort of spiritual prostitution?

On another note, I want to tell you all how much I love this forum because it is fulfilling my spiritual, mystical, esoteric, psychological, intellectual, gossip, dreams and everything in between needs that I look for in my relationships, but with honesty and openness.

So, while some are having patient-savior relationships with their therapists, and others are working out their pre-BK, BK and post-BK baggage with human beings, I'd like to say that this forum is currently my "boyfriend" and I hope you don't mind. :D I may have to move on eventually to a fleshed out being, but for the meantime, I am loving this virtual interaction and I love my computer more than ever. It is by the way, more than love. It is attachment! Hehehe ...
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paulkershaw

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

I have seen how handsome Brahmins have used their sexual energy

... and the really not so handsome ones too, by the way. :|

re: the new forum boyfriend energy you've found here ROL, well, it takes all sorts to make up this world. So if this works for you, then you go for it girl. Shall we ask 'Admin; to create a thread for your own day and night 'personal time' moments? hahahaharr :D.

I do sometimes wonder though how the forum's energy affects people sometimes and what it replaces in their lives. Thanks for bringing this point into focus. Let's see if Terry and ex-l can agree on anything here when they respond shall we (if they will, of course ...) ;) ?? Ooopps - too many smileys ...
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rayoflight

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

Listen, it's all in good fun. Every relationship must have fun included in it otherwise it gets boring and stale very quickly. We can be silly and use smilies to express the two dimensionality of virtual computer relationships as long as it is meant to be.

It's good. It's healthy. It gives us the opportunity to show each other that ex-BKs are capable of being normal human beings without worrying if "God" is checking our charts for too many smilies.
As for this:
... and the really not so handsome ones too, by the way. :|

I am glad you mentioned this because it proves once more how delusional this "spiritual" power is.
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ex-l

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

Hey, this is a very serious topic folks, let's see if we can stick to it.
paulkershaw wrote:What makes a good therapist? Why would someone choose to go see a 'holistic counsellor' as opposed to a qualified psycho-analyst? Cost? Attitude? Listening ability? I feel it to be far deeper than meets the eye.

I agree ... and, on a par with the Karma question ... does it actually "work" and how does it actually "work"?

I am not asking this to belittle it. I am asking this to help others to know how to look for and find someone best suited to help ... which, as you have just said, might actually be a good and responsible spiritualist healer instead. I have experienced miraculous and fairly instant change from them and there are scientific results to back up claims that there is something to it all (Matthew Manning; Prof.Josephson, Drs Whitton, Mishlove et al).

I have some idea of how some of 'talking therapy' might work and that is a simple "re-tuning" from the supposedly superior state of consciousness of the therapist. This might have been true of Freud or Jung who, apart from being giants in their own time, were vastly more together than their patients. And we have to narrow Freud down not just to women but the women of his wealthy Jewish community. Jung with his psychiatrict patients.

I do not feel that this is entirely the case with BKs or ex-BKs and I, personally, would be cautious at recommending therapy carte blanche. I think many ex- or exiting BKs might, a) be sorely disappointed and have their time wasted by your average psychotherapist and b) be able to run rings around them even at their lowest ebb. I might suggest many "BK types" might also get on far better with a more spiritualist approach, as their problems stem from spiritualist influences and they would feel far more affinity.

Its one thing to say a therapist "should" do this that or the other ... the the bottomline is, if they entirely body-conscious, are in denial of spirit and souls, don't believe in reincarnation etc ... they are going to think you are bonkers. It will be too much hard work to get them up to speed.

Having said that ... folks, if you think you are going to kill yourself, OK, go get the pills off them, sign yourself into a ward, be fed and have a few days holiday. Just be cautious how much you say!
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leela

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Re: Different types of Psychotherapy for recovery

Post25 Mar 2009

From ex-l: I think many ex- or exiting BKs might, a) be sorely disappointed and have their time wasted by your average psychotherapist and b) be able to run rings around them even at their lowest ebb.

This last point is especially valid, and has been my experience. I don't mean to say that I am especially clever or good at hiding out, but the tendency to hide out, which is strengthened by the BK system, can be a big obstacle to therapy. The other aspect is that for a person with a ruptured sense of self, there is the deep inner conviction that there is no-one there to help at a time of need. In fact, reaching out and asking for help is almost impossible. IMO, it is this conviction that comes into play when exiting BKs feel marooned and isolated and unable to turn to outside help. In my case I think the BK conditioning that I was different/special somehow matched this conviction and gave it a rational explanation, further distancing me from my inner self.
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