Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

for concern over cult-related damage, institutional abuse & psychological problems.
  • Message
  • Author

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

Post01 Apr 2009

I reckon oxygen has a lot more going for it than most people give it credit for!
User avatar

frisbee

ex-BK

  • Posts: 42
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2008

Re: Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

Post01 Apr 2009

Especially when mixed with nitrous oxide :D.
User avatar

paulkershaw

ex-BK

  • Posts: 863
  • Joined: 11 Dec 2006
  • Location: South Africa

Re: Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

Post01 Apr 2009

OK people! Our previous 'drug' history is showing for the entire world. To try to come back to the subject in hand - I wonder if it would be useful for us to get an idea how many ex-BK on this forum used drugs (recreationally or medically) in their early pre-gyan years? and if we were wiling to create an anonymous poll - the vote would give us an indication of the number of people who did so, and this would then allow us to see if in fact the spiritual / meditation path is highly attractive to drug/pharmaceutical users, which would also mean that the current BK followers are also working through their past drugs / anti-depressants / pharmaceuticals levels.

(Perhaps it would be possible to see how many votes indicate the use of recreational and / or medically prescribed chemical substances).
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10472
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

Post01 Apr 2009

I have never taken these types of drugs. Basically, I cant even remember when the last time I took even a headache pill, tenanus shot or any kind of medicine. It was probably when I was a kid and had no say in the matter. I would avoid them and as much as possible. Forunately, in my teens or early twenties I also read "Medical Nemesis" by Ivan Illich and applied myself to a discriminating approach and experience of alternative therapies.

Not all of those work either. I am not naive. But I would speak up very strongly for Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) and, in particular, the oriental herbal medicine. I have experienced marvelous changes in my feeling of well-being from taking them. Again, as ever, finding the right or good practitioner is very important.

I found the Western schools of Oriental medicine a bit cold or weak (for the sake of the market practioners either shy away from doing stuff required, or keep people hooked on expensive treatments that are not really effective). Some very good and tough practioners came out of Vietnam with the purges there. Chinatowns you have to watch out for, there are a lot of rip offs who have only done a few courses. But there are real people to be found. I am a great fan of dong quai and herbal injections.

In short, what I am leading to is that often what we might think is a "Maya", depression or some other kind of "nervous" condition can actually be changed by feeding the body, or removing food and drinks that the body is unhappy with. For example, onset anemia or hormonal inbalances could be misunderstood as a depression. The symptoms can be approached from other angles. Oriental herbs appear to me to be far more about nourishing the body than Western herbal traditions. Although both are also chemical compounds too.
joel wrote:Forcing people to look to the black market for psychoactive substances of their choice makes money for law-enforcement, the prison industry, organized crime, and significantly, politicians, most of whom are influenced by donations from these groups.

Diving in at the deep end, has anyone tried ayahuasca, Ibogaine etc as a serious therapeutic, or dare I say it "shamanistic" approach to dealing with the roots of "depression" and other problems.

What I mean is to score out discussion of pure recreational use ... although by all means do so in another topic elsewhere if you wish.

Terry

ex-BK

  • Posts: 389
  • Joined: 04 Jan 2009
  • Location: OZ

Re: Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

Post02 Apr 2009

ex-l wrote: often what we might think is a "Maya", depression or some other kind of "nervous" condition can actually be changed by feeding the body, or removing food and drinks that the body is unhappy with

Interesting how Oxygen leads on to drug use! I was literally referring to getting active as a "post spiritual" therapy, especially where "spiritual" was sit, meditate, and cut off from your body.

Prana (sanskrit), qi(Chinese), pneuma (greek) and particularly for us - "spiritus" (latin) are all words for spirit, but all are actually words for "breath". What they all say is full life flow really is about breathing (inspiration : breathe in).

It is the other side of the same coin of ex-l's statement above. The "heady" orthodox Western therapies treat the "head' conditions as separate from the body. They would actually ignore a person's physical health or dietary regime and so on. The Eastern approach is to get the body back into balance first for the reasons' ex-l described. The energy flows are determined by the qualities of air and food etc - in through and out of the body, but the body also has to move well to help move them through.

The energy has to flow. You cannot be pedantic about diet and thoughts, and not get your body to move the way nature meant it to.
joel wrote:All psychoactive drug use, including alcohol and tobacco is part of an individual's process of self-regulation

This kind of links up. Macrobiotics is a misunderstood concept. If understood, it really says that everyone is macrobiotic. That is, we all seek balance as we experience life in this universe. Anything we do (outward) or consume (inward) requires a balancing action or a balancing food.

Imbalance seeks balance, and drugs can be a source of balance, e.g. nicotine as a stimulant, alcohol as a sedative. The macrobiotic approach is to move away from the edges of the see-saw, to eat and do according to basics. If you do something extreme, you need to know how to balance that. If for example you want someone to give up or cut down on alcohol, which is essentially sugars, it becomes easier if the diet and activities change as well so that it is not required as a balancing agent.

But to back up Joel' s point: there is the story of the Shivapuri Baba (Swami Govindanath Bharati - 1826 - 1963 (!)) - born in Kerala, he travelled the world and met president Roosevelt and other heads of state (met Queen Victoria many times). In his later years, he settled in Nepal (location is important here). He was over 100 when developed cancer of the jaw.

His disciples insisted on medical care, he wanted to treat himself according to his own understandings, but they kept insisting. He said he would do it as long as he could treat himself if it failed. And (of course for the sake of the story) it failed. Using his knowledge of ayurveda and Yoga, he then took up smoking! and cured himself (it worked because he understood the cancer was a "cold" condition, and that smoking was a heater).

Which brings me back to my own mantra of the moment - It ain't what you do or eat, it is WHAT ELSE you do or eat ... anything, no matter how "healthy" you consider it to be, can lead to imbalance.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10472
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

Post02 Apr 2009

joel wrote:All psychoactive drug use, including alcohol and tobacco is part of an individual's process of self-regulation ... Is your concern about the forum being potentially characterized as populated by drug abusers or drug-abuse advocates?

I cant agree with your first premise that "all drug use is self-regulation" ... unless you include suicide and 'society-cide' as a "process of self-regulation". I'd rather call it disintegration, the opposite of integration.

Really, the distinction I was asking to make was between approaching the use of ayahuasca etc with a truly therapeutic intent rather than with the intent to "get one's rocks off" or "be cosmic". Anecdotal evidence suggests it is effective in treating some mental conditions ... I have no idea if that it true.

Yes, I encourage others to explore the whole idea of nutrition and energy flow around the whole body as an alternative to the 'heads off on the table' and 'chemistry set' approach of the allopathic medical approach. I suspect that a whole lot more people who feel they are suffering from depression etc are actually suffering energy imbalances and than only a minority have the kind of chemical imbalances that psychiatric treatments would be necessary for.

In the BK world, I would be utterly confident to make a statement such as, "a large proportion of what BKs consider is their 'Maya' is entirely related to their diet and nothing else", e.g. a vegetarian diet high in sugar, fat and stimulants (tea, coffee etc). This may pass over to ex-BK life. To date, I have seen no evidence at all to suggest that, say, BK Raja Yoga can overcome the effects of sugar and caffeine on one hand, nor constipation on the other!

Try colonic irrigation and a cleansing, warming diet for a few weeks.

The general criticism of the West or "developed" nations is that they promote a life so far out of balance and yet at the same time demand to feel good about it too. The same would apply to "Rich" India. Now, that is insane.

Pass me the happy pill, Doc ...
User avatar

paulkershaw

ex-BK

  • Posts: 863
  • Joined: 11 Dec 2006
  • Location: South Africa

Re: Drugs, anti-depressants and meditation

Post02 Apr 2009

Which also brings up another point ... the refusal or stubborness of some members of the BKWSU to take medication or ask for a medical diagnosis or help, even when gravely ill.

I've seen some of my old BK class-mates truly believe that they only need 'Yoga' to get better - only to end up in hospital. (Then the food issue starts too ...).That's the flip side of this coin.
Previous

Return to Abuse & Recovery

cron