Shaking and other strange diseases

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rayoflight

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Shaking and other strange diseases

Post22 Jun 2009

I have heard of four cases of people getting the shakes, including me, as a result of following a rigorous spiritual path.

In my case, whenever someone gave me drishti, I would have to look down because I would start to shake uncontrollably. I felt nauseous, as though an electric shock had gone through my body.

The other cases I heard about included trembling hands and an overcharging of energy that caused some wires in the nervous system to fry. This forced the person to take time off from work and life in general.

My symptoms stopped within a few months if I recall correctly, but the others have been suffering for ten years or more. Has anyone had this happen to them?

There are many other strange diseases amongst Brahmins which I would like to hear about if anyone would care to share.

Thanks.
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jann

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post23 Jun 2009

Well, its the same thing as when a child looks in the eyes of Santa Claus for the first time. The rest is all "self fulfilling prophecy".
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Terry

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post23 Jun 2009

I'd agree with Jannisder on that one. It may be the nervous response based on many emotional & psychological expectations (some of which may be conflicting).
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ex-l

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post23 Jun 2009

terry wrote:It may be the nervous response based on many emotional & psychological expectations (some of which may be conflicting).

Just out of interest, picking up on our dialogue elsewhere about psycho-therapy and spiritualism, could you show us one scientifically reproducible experiment (that is, a sound theory practically proven) in which it was demonstrated that by merely looking at someone, one could induce them to shake in such a manner?
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starchild

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post23 Jun 2009

Sorry Jannisder and Terry

If you experienced this, you could not and would not not dismiss it like that. With respect.
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rayoflight

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post23 Jun 2009

I'd have to agree with ex-l and starchild on this one, and not just because it was a personal experience (with due respect as well to jannisder and terry, but if you haven't experienced it, then you really cannot know). Otherwise, I think it would boil down to the same BK beliefs (and other cults such as the Church of Scientology that was accused of masking John Travolta's late son's disease of Autism because they don't believe the disease exists) that it's all in the mind ... and if Baba doesn't cure it then it's blamed on karma etc ...

Considering the shaking was "spiritually induced", it will be difficult to find the accurate response. But certainly it exists out there because I have also heard about a (non-BK) highly reputable Kundalini yogi who experienced the same thing and is very ill with the shakes now (the shakes is my term although I am sure there is a more formal definition out there somewhere). My guess is it has something to do with neurons.

Some research on the internet states the following:

Tremors: "Tremor is the shaking movement of the whole body or just a certain part of it, often caused by problems of the neurons responsible for muscle action. (from Wikipedia) - (Source - Diseases Database) An involuntary vibration (as if from illness or fear) ... Tremor is the involuntary trembling or shaking of the body. Often it affects the fingers or hands. The most well-known disease causing tremor is Parkinson's disease, but it is definitely not the only possibility. Any tremor-like symptom needs prompt professional medical advice."

It brings to mind that Dadi Prakashmani died of Parkinson's disease. She had shaking hands. Did anyone think of her as nervous? I don't think so. In fact, it was quite the opposite.

This is a wild guess, but perhaps something in the brain is over-stimulated from too much Yoga and in some people the over-stimulation causes a dysfunction in the brain.

I don't discount psychology and the power of the mind, but I also believe in science and the medical profession. So if anyone has further insights or information from a scientific point of view, I'd be most grateful to hear about it. Thanks.
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Terry

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post23 Jun 2009

starchild wrote:If you experienced this, you could not and would not not dismiss it like that. With respect.

Why do you presume I haven't? I have also had similar experiences (more often whilst in deep meditation and not taking dristi) - there is a lot happening between the mind, the nervous system and the body when you make yourself physically still and mentally still yet stay alert and singularly focused. It is not a "natural" state. Add to that the intense gaze of another person close up. In the animal kingdom, amongst primates. or at least amongst the great apes, you don't make eye contact otherwise you get attacked. It is a challenge. Maybe there is partly a primal response coming into play as well?
ex-l wrote: could you show us one scientifically reproducible experiment (that is, a sound theory practically proven) in which it was demonstrated that by merely looking at someone, one could induce them to shake in such a manner?

I never claimed that happens. My experience is that it comes from within the one shaking, not that the one looking is causing it ... you might project that experience outward and attribute it to the other person, or to God or spirits or whatever, but i'd suggest that one should work from a simpler explanation first and test that. It is a nervous reaction, so look to the physiology and psychology of the moment. Even simple bad posture can give you the shakes, as can lack of sleep, as can stress and other things. Thats what I meant when I said "there are many emotional and psychological expectations, some conflicting". I should have added physiological as well.

BKs are so out of touch with their own bodies, their unconscious, their emotions, so much is suppressed, these are the basis of neurosis - which literally means a nervous state, and the phenomenon is a definitely a nervous reaction. I think Wilhelm Reich's ideas may come into play here, regarding the suppression of the orgasm and other natural nervous responses can lead to psychological disturbances ...

I am not suggesting this is Starchild' s experience or issue. it is hard to say whether what is understood is exactly what was experienced by the person relating it, or even by another person present at the same event.
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starchild

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post24 Jun 2009

Terry wrote:... suppression of the orgasm and other natural nervous responses can lead to psychological disturbances ...

Is that Freudian?

In any event, I find it very, very funny (in this context, not saying it is not true).

However, I think it is kind of important not to be in denial about the fact that there is real power going on. Whether that power is from an entity, whether it is energy that is created by a lot of people gathering to meditate together.

The worst case scenario is that it is God, telling the absolute truth, which means that we will have to go through it all again, forever and ever, and end up as the Seniors servants, also forever and ever.

It is difficult to measure one person's experience against another, but reading the accounts of experiences here, I have to come to the conclusion that what we experienced was very real, whatever it was.
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rayoflight

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post24 Jun 2009

starchild wrote:The worst case scenario is that it is God, telling the absolute truth, which means that we will have to go through it all again, forever and ever, and end up as the Seniors servants, also forever and ever.

Oh, God, kill me now.
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starchild

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post24 Jun 2009

I know, very scary thought!!
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rayoflight

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post24 Jun 2009

And yet another good reason to get out!

At least I know that I'll always get out, cycle after cycle after cycle after ... and I'll always believe that for a short time in the great eternal span of Time, I was taken by a force that wanted my life.

I think there's a sci-fi movie in there somewhere...
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Terry

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post24 Jun 2009

starchild wrote:Terry"... suppression of the orgasm and other natural nervous responses can lead to psychological disturbances ..." Starchild: Is that Freudian?

You will note the reference to Wilhelm Reich just a few words earlier. He, along with Jung, Adler, and others, left Freud behind to explore their different approaches to psychology.

Freud was happy to sit on his laurels and resisted any attempts to evolve his theories in other directions. It was the mention of Kundalini energy by someone here that reminded me of Reich's work. Freud played the scientist. Reich, because of social moralities at the time, became popularly labelled a 'dirty old man" because of his frank more earthy discussion of sexuality.
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ex-l

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post24 Jun 2009

terry wrote:My experience is that it comes from within the one shaking, not that the one looking is causing it ... you might project that experience outward and attribute it to the other person, or to God or spirits or whatever, but I'd suggest that one should work from a simpler explanation first and test that.

What could be more simpler than "spirit possession"?

Or more scientific than to document all the cases, list the different possible causes and propose some experimental evidence to support your position?

I am sorry but inherent in the use of the word "simpler", rather than an honest, "we don't know", is an element of patronisation and manipulation of values. If Occam was given a razor, it was probably by the devil.

You had me smiling at the thought of CIA psy-op walfare ... aka "The Men who Stare at Goats" and your "orgasm" theory is on a par with Jagdish Chander's fruiter works!

Fine ... show how what happened here is done, or report someone else that reliably has.
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Terry

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post24 Jun 2009

Your argument is irrational. Proving invisible entities is not simpler.

I will agree that there is an "energy" transfer probably happening between giver and receiver, and if one person is feeling low, or stressed, or edgy or has other issues then shakes may be induced. I would say it is primarily because the person is not doing what they naturally want to do, are making themselves stay in that situation for other reasons. (It happens to me in certain hatha Yoga postures too, especially along my liver meridian)
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ex-l

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Re: Shaking and other strange diseases

Post25 Jun 2009

terry wrote:Your argument is irrational. Proving invisible entities is not simpler.

Well, let's face it, I was expecting a put down in return but it was a perfectly simple answer. It may not be true but it was simple and symmetrical in its level of logic.

Without asking any more about the nature and circumstances of the experience you claim you have had them, pose yourself as being an expert, then suggest the cause is either bad posture or lack of orgasms. Whew ... its like a doctor saying, "take an asprin, go to bed, and if it is still happening in the morning, come back and see me".

You suggest that anything related to spiritualism is irrational and unsupportable whilst now going on to suggesting some occult practise yourself ... as in unseen "energy transfers". Care to develop the science of that and explain how it works?

For the record, I could loosely agree with you but have no idea how to rationalize it ... let along "scientifically" because we are a l-o-n-g way beyond any acceptable "scientific" view here. My approach is that one should sit down and make a list of ALL possibilities, document incidents and see where it leads us.

To the original poster, I am sorry but I am short of time right now. I would like to continue a serious discussion of these phenomena and think it is both relevant and widespread. And, no, it is not discussed within the BKWSU in my experience. No one has a clue what they are dabbling with, and who or what is dabbling with them.

Elsewhere you could throw out theories like kundalini, chakras, siddhis (psychic powers), spirits etc and, to be honest, there is stuff going on in those areas that are common enough in Indian and the West. But it is all just hushed up and not questioned. Any victims are just left to their own devices.

If others have similar psychic experiences within the BKWSU, please document them here.
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