Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

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audacity

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Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post03 Nov 2009

Hi,

as a new member here (and as a long-time ex-BK still experiencing many lingering mental/spiritual problems), I am wondering if anyone is willing to talk openly about experiences of negative psychic influence, post-hypnotic suggestions or even "possession" during or after the BKs? And, of course, methods of successfully overcoming these experiences. I am not really into the spiritual spooky stuff, and prefer a psychological approach to explain my experiences, but I am curious to hear about other's experiences and opinions.

I can clearly remember in the early 1980s, in my second or third year of my BK indoctrination, that one young female BK was deemed to be experiencing some kind of negative spiritual possession. I heard from my pukka BK Sisters that the BK center heads had had to call a Catholic priest to do an exorcism! I do remember questioning this - firstly, how and why the girl managed to get "possessed" in the first place and, secondly, why the BKs couldn't deal with it themselves? The only answer I got was that it was that soul's karma and she was obviously not practicing meditation properly, and it was OK to utilize a Catholic priest for exorcism as they were good at that kind of thing ... much like you would call in a plumber to fix a blocked drain.

Needless to say this was one factor leading to my eventual realisation that God was definitely not teaching us, and that these people running BK centers and teaching the "highest level of meditation" actually had no proper training, nor any real idea of what they were doing!

From a personal experience point of view, after leaving the BKs almost 25 years ago (after being strongly warned by the center head of my imminent rape and punishment during the 1986 Destruction), I have certainly experienced an extraordinarily long string of "Bad Karma" which I have always put down to my own mind being influenced by negative subconscious programming. But sometimes there has been some really weird stuff, that if I allow myself to feel paranoid, seems to be almost like "influence" from outside forces.

I won't go into the details here yet, other than to say that over the past 25 years an uncanny number of accidents have happened to me - always at a point in my life when I finally build up enough energy and determination to make the kind of positive lifestyle changes that would finally throw off the remnants of BK conditioning.

And the other thing that I experience is a kind of passive mental blankness that comes over me when I am trying to focus on making those positive changes that would allow me to have a normal life. That state of mental blankness is very hard to describe. I can remember noticing it first about 6 months after I left the BKs - and my sense of frustration that I wasn't able to achieve certain simple things because of it. I can actually remember asking an older non-BK acquaintance why I couldn't seem do many things that I wanted to do. He was not aware of my previous cult experience, and so his reply was that it was merely my lack of willpower as a 21-year-old.

Nowadays, people who know me consider that I have tremendous willpower, but they do mention that "I" sort of disappear every now and again.

Anyway, all constructive comments would be appreciated, as I am wondering how best to deal with all this - as I have been trying to get on with my life, make plans, undergo normal psychotherapy etc but have had little success.

Thanks
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tom

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post03 Nov 2009

Dear audacity,

my humble contribution to your comprehensive question is, honestly, I have never experienced any spooky influence on my mind or around me during my BK years and afterwards. NEVER. But having believed into such stupidness, and having wasted my years, my time and energy and money for such a stupidness which brought no goodness and no healing to the humanity, is spooky enough.

IMHO analyzing, thinking, searching what the reasons are which brought us to the BKs would not help us too much. Of course, the scientists have to do this. But I know from my own life, we all do incomprehensible things in our lives. Some of us ruin their lives running after pleasure. Most of us do it from the naive and good wish to help humanity, don't know how and get stuck into such a cult. Others become a nun or a priest. Others again become guerrillas and bomb the innocent children in the cities and believe to save humanity. I think what we do now and in the next minute is important.

The most harmful teachings of the BKs, IMHO, are the doctrines of waiting for Destruction and forcing celibacy. Waiting for Destruction without any hope for humanity causes depression in all and has the result that the young ones have no taste for education and study, which is supported by the Seniors because they need young slaves who have no jobs and no future outside of the BK world.

Forced celibacy and no duty of care policy causes that believers have no family, no children, no home and nowhere to go when they leave BKs, and when they are old they have nobody to take care of them. Leadership needs healthy hopeless slaves, they don't care even for the "Instrument teachers", "center-in-charges" who have served Yugya decades long, they send them to their relatives - if any are left -when they are too old and sick.

How lucky we are all who have left such a cult before it was too late for us.

For your question what to do, it is my opinion and my practice, praying daily to Divine, to all Saints, to all Prophets, to our guarding angels and souls, to honor them and to ask them for their help and guidance and to thank them and to send them back to their places. We all have favorite Saints or Prophets, in difficult moments to chant his name or Divine's name helps me.

I have understood from the research I have read, that the dark souls are everywhere, we don't see them - but they can not harm us unless we allow them. If one feels such a presence it is enough to order them in a respective way to go away. Chanting the name of the Divine and beloved Saints helps also.

audacity

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post03 Nov 2009

Thanks Tom for your very considered reply.
tom wrote:it is my opinion and my practice, praying daily to Divine, to all Saints, to all Prophets, to our guarding angels and souls, to honor them and to ask them for their help and guidance and to thank them and to send them back to their places. We all have favorite Saints or Prophets, in difficult moments to chant his name or Divine's name helps me.

As much as I like the sound of your practice, I don't think I would feel comfortable inviting any more spirits into my life at the moment.

For me, one of the after-effects of my time with the BKSWU is an ongoing lack of trust in spirituality/God/masters/guides/higher self etc, and a lack of faith in my own ability to discern the genuine from the false. Unfortunately, I feel like I may have thrown the beautiful baby out with the very dirty BK bath water.

However, I recognise how essential it is for any human healing or development to find connection, hope, support and love. I guess I will have to work on methods of re-connecting with spirit in ways that don't trigger my post-BK alarm bells - maybe some low-key self hypnosis or personal rituals for protection for a start. Life is always a work in progress.
How lucky we are all who have left such a cult before it was too late for us

Indeed. Thanks again Tom.
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tom

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post03 Nov 2009

audacity,

We all went through tough things.

O.K. You can call the soul of a tree which you like, the soul of a mountain, of the moon, of mother Earth, of the Ocean, the soul of the Emptiness or the Source, which one you feel close to ... you can tell them how much you respect them and ask them to come for five minutes to give you a blessing for your need and then you can gently send them away.

What frightens you can be a great gift, probably your third eye is open. Without guidance and help of experts, of course, you cannot know how to use this gift for good reasons, and how to get rid of the dark souls you see. When you feel ready you can try: Spiritual Science Research Foundation.
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rayoflight

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post15 Nov 2009

I too have found beneficial information from The Spiritual Science Research Foundation which is a great resource for information on the spirit world.

I came across this video called "Ghost" which I found interesting as it showed me a new angle on the impact that disembodied spirits, or ghosts, can have on us if our third eye is too open and if we are ignorant of the reality that exists in the spirit world. If such fear and negativity exists in these ghosts, and these ghosts feed off of healthy living beings, it can then be easily understood why so many BKs fall into depression.

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alladin

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Post15 Nov 2009

I would propose this video for the Classic Posts, what do you folks and Admin think?

I found it amazing, with no words it says it all and left me speechless. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I will pass it on. The actress has such refined and different facial expression throughout. From which you can see that when souls first make a pact with the devil, consciously or not, they seem happy, smiling and even "cocky". They can become successful on a material level. They may acquire a temporary glamour that when fades away leaves them less attractive than before and looking much older and worn out. I have seen that. Then despair kicks in, anguish increases, and the possessed human is left totally lifeless. That's how the video ends.

Wise people know that one should NEVER accept "favours" from a criminal organization, because the payback is much much higher and cannot be refused! Inevitably things will turn very nasty and dangerous. Like with drugs. The user is naif and arrogant enough to think he can handle them and is the master, but it is never the case.

We talked before about most gatherings of BK, where you can see no vitality, no beauty. Their life force, Ki, is gone!! Whenever I/we here, used the term "zombie", it was not meant as an insult, rather to describe in one word, this condition where the person has lost his life and willpower.

Of course they do not realize it, neither admit it. Why there's so little life and joy, in a BK's life? Many get satisfaction through power acquisition and service, but that's a surrogate for bliss and balance. Yogis should be cheerful and vibrant, so why most of them aren't and even people who exited find it so difficult to get back on their feet? What could be a rescue remedy, on an energy level, apart from sharing, which we do here?

Practising some martial art or form of mediation and healing that can strengthen the Ki/Chi? Dance, sing, play, interact with the earth, nature, animals, gardening, perhaps do things that ground you?

In my case, I found that the heart connection with the Great Spirit, is essential! Get out of their influence ASAP and take shelter under the real "Canopy of protection"!
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rayoflight

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post15 Nov 2009

Thanks for your reply, alladin.

It made me look at it in a new perspective. What strikes me strongly is the look in her eyes at the end of the video. They are changed. Harder. Also, how the exaltation turns to torment. Such is hell.

audacity

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post16 Nov 2009

Hi Alladin,
We talked before about most gatherings of BK, where you can see no vitality, no beauty. Their life force, Ki, is gone!! Whenever I/we here, used the term "zombie", it was not meant as an insult, rather to describe in one word, this condition where the person has lost his life and willpower.

Your comment reminded me of how I was when I was when I was in the BKs. I can clearly remember feeling very depressed one day at a BK gathering - as a teenager; struggling with being totally cut off from friends and family, secretly wondering what the hell I was doing there but struggling to suppress the "waste" thoughts. In short, hardly able to speak or engage with anyone such was my deep distress - really zombie like ...

One of the senior BK Brothers saw me and made this praising comment about me to the other BKs: "Look. Look how much detachment she has!"
Remembering this incident has made me realise clearly how this "spiritual university" actively teaches and encourages depressed, antisocial behaviour. So is it any wonder that so many BKs and ex-BKs suffer depression and even commit suicide? After all suicide is the ultimate in detachment from this body and this life.

Unfortunately, this zombie-like state still comes over me regularly even 25 years later - although I can clearly remember my pre-BK personality and energy state as being quite grounded, active, physical and very connected to nature. I've actually been having flashbacks to my pre-BK state quite regularly for about a year now. I suddenly remember instances of being relaxed, "in my body" and doing physical activities like walking in nature - without any need to think about it or justify it, like I would do now as an ex-BK. I was initially suppressing the memories because I thought it was bad to dwell on the past but now I see it as a valuable wake-up call from my inner self. It is actually essential to remember how it was to be "normal" and free, and to recognise this as a desirable state that can be experienced again.

I think your "rescue remedy" for ex-BKs is spot on:
Practising some martial art or form of mediation and healing that can strengthen the Ki/Chi? Dance, sing, play, interact with the earth, nature, animals, gardening, perhaps do things that ground you?

The trick though seems to be to get out of the BK fog enough to start the activities, and then to be able to keep going even when the BK subconscious programming is saying "waste of time", "mere physical body", "ego" etc. I have a long pattern now of starting physical activities but as soon as I come back into my body and start to feel good, the BK fog descends again rapidly and before I know it I am "out of my body" again. Very frustrating. Any suggestions on how to get back into the body and stay there would be appreciated.

starchild

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post16 Nov 2009

Hi Audacity,

I have been reading your posts and can relate quite a bit with your experiences, especially those of feeling anytime that I make a positive move forward, terrible things happen. Also the short length of time spent with the BKs, a long period trying to get on track in life, before coming to this site.

The process of speaking about and exploring my experiences with the BKs felt quite profound.

Unfortunately, I experienced a bereavement. The sudden loss of a very close one a few months ago. Again it seemed that something bad was happening because I had spoken out (even though, I do not think I was particularly defamatory). This was an initial reaction to the shock, and not the reason I have not been posting.

It was necessary to take care of the practicalities around the death and also I now allow the grieving process to be experienced rather than try to suppress it by "eating halva".

You are still quite a young woman, so although certain things in life may have been missed out on (I would think that is true for everyone to some degree). And you seem to have a good deal of clarity.

Experiences of negative psychic influence seems to be the most difficult to come to reasoning about, due to the nature of the subject, although very important to unravel if one feels they have been / are affected.

I have been reading some of the stuff on the Spiritual Science Research site (as recommended by Tom and Rayoflight). They also have a destruction theory under 'Armaggedon' and a really scary take on ghost and ancestor spirits??
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ex-l

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post16 Nov 2009

Yes, I think they can be a little cultish ... e.g. where they fall back on unprovable numbers games and percentages beloved of Hindus ... but they are doing genuinely thought provoking work that raises many questions and confronting difficult cases.

I tried to get straight answers about the BKWSU and their god but the SSR would not answer me which I found frustrating. Just as the BKs say, "just have more Yoga and it will get better", they say, "just chant more and it will get better". Well, I want to know what and why?

I wonder if they would do a BK diagnosis or cure if you met them directly?

I cannot say I was ever spooked by anything in the BKWSU but I do still feel pressures on my third eye and can still "zone out". I would not be a 100% sure that I was clear of psychic influences until I got the green light from some healer that could actually see or feel the stuff. I do not think you can just analyse the stuff out of existence.

Some ex-BKs talk off going off and eating meat or drinking etc to get rid of Lekhraj Kirpalani/BapDada's spirit hanging onto them. I pass no judgement. It sounds like the traditional 'Left-Hand Path' approach.
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Mr Green

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post17 Nov 2009

Sounds like a passed judgement to me, ex-l ... hehehe love ya really.

Why shouldn't an ex-BK throw off the fake Maryadas? After all, they have left the Yagya.

I found it useful to break all that Maryadas that had no basis in logic, and then I re-instated any that were useful to me.

starchild

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post17 Nov 2009

ex-l wrote:Some BK's talk of going off eating meat and drinking etc. to shake off Lekhraj Kirpiliani"s / BapDada's spirit

I think it's likely that when people leave they probably go back to the lifestyles that they had previously engaged in. For instance, I had been a vegetarian for quite a long time before I ever met a BK so I was hardly likely to suddenly want meat. Although one of the negative suggestions or threats is that we would become more degraded than we had previously been.

There are a lot of these subtle suggestions/threats within the teachings ... and then the extra ones that come of nutcases who take it upon themselves to threaten people who they see are preparing to leave. I was also told that very bad things happen to BKs who leave, more about them dying in accidents etc.

The explicit threat to Audacity of rape, and coming from a man to a very young vulnerable girl is particularly reprehensible.

ex-l, can I ask,

Is the idea of eating meat or drinking, supposed to be that one would then be on another level from that spirit, who did not partake of them? And could you explain what you mean by the "Left-hand" side approach?? Sorry if I am a bit slow.

It brings us back to what Audacity asked at the beginning of this thread about whether we would discuss our experience.

I never felt the need to shake off Lekraj's / BapDada's spirit, I did not feel that the psychic attacks I was experiencing were coming from 'Baba'. My problem with him was more that I did not feel protected, and that he did not put things right.

I have never analyzed it really but I did feel that I was somehow experiencing psychic attacks (I took this problem to Dadi Janki), and some of this was of a sexual nature. This subject came up in a thread earlier this year. I will try to find it.

Being pulled into the kind of soul-conscious thing never bothered me, I enjoyed that part, and had experienced that sort of stage of consciousness from childhood. It does perhaps make one more vulnerable.

I suppose it takes time to unravel the various problems that different individuals are left with.

audacity

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post18 Nov 2009

Hi All,

Wow, so many interesting points to think about. Thanks especially to Starchild for sharing some personal experiences of the matter. It helps me to know I am not the only one who has experienced some kind of psychic attack or lingering negative influences related to our BK involvement. Knowing what to do about it is a different matter ...

As far as the spiritualist approach goes as suggested by the Spiritual Science Research Foundation, I am not sure if invoking another bunch of spirits to dislodge the first lot seems like a good idea for me personally. I’m really not sure where I stand on trying to explain my psychic problems – pinning the blame on dark ghosts would be neat, but somehow it seems disempowering to suggest that human beings can be just hapless victims of disembodied entities, and that we can only remove them with the help of outside “spiritual experts”.

I think there are many different ways of explaining the function and dysfunction of the human mind/soul, most of which are equally valid. People seem to see things in different ways according to cultural backgrounds etc, meaning that some people see disembodied spirits, some see auras, some feel energy fields, whereas the more scientifically minded may examine brainwave patterns, describe brain chemistry variations or rely on psychological models of subconscious and conscious beliefs.

I want to try to explore the psychological explanations first, and try some therapies such as NLP or self-hypnosis – simply because I haven’t ever really tried to directly deal with the BK thing before. Up until now I actually hadn’t recognized my time with the BKs as a significant cult experience, and secondly, the therapists I saw when I was younger didn’t have any awareness of the after effects of cult programming. So I will proceed on the premise that I am suffering from a bad case of post-hypnotic suggestions, and see how I go. And maybe if there are clinging ghosts then they will drop off anyway once I become positive and strong via whatever method ... ?

It is definitely frustrating that no-one in the BKs will talk openly about this side of things. As Ex-I said:
ex-l wrote:I tried to get straight answers about the BKWSU and their god but the SSR would not answer me which I found frustrating

My opinion is that most BKs simply can’t answer those questions because they don’t know what is going on themselves – I mean it’s not like there is any serious mediation training provided in the BKWSU, and questions from students are basically banned after a certain point. Probably the Seniors do know how it all works but they would hardly be likely to admit that some kind of spiritual vampirism or psychic attacks or whatever is going on ...

Finally, regarding dietary considerations. As Ex-I said:
Some BK's talk of going off eating meat and drinking etc. to shake off Lekhraj Kirpiliani"s / BapDada's spirit

Maybe this idea is not as silly as it sounds. It is well-known that a low-protein vegetarian diet will make people feel more passive and “sensitive” or possibly “spacey”, whereas eating meat is known to heat the blood and make people feel more aggressive and physical. Maybe if we are needing to fire up a bit of righteous anger to help us shift out of a depressed, victimized mentality then a big beefsteak and a shot of whiskey may be actually therapeutic. As Mr Green mentioned, choosing to eat what we like is also a powerful way of re-asserting our power over our own lives. And if it dislodges some clinging old Hindu ghosts, then so much the better!

This also reminds me of something the Tibetan Buddhists teach about spiritual imbalance. During my time in the monastery, I learned that it was common for inexperienced students to “overdo” the meditation and acetic practices, and to end up in a quite dysfunctional state of being ungrounded and spacey. They even have a word for it; “lung” in Tibetan. And guess, what the simple cure recommended by the experienced masters is? Eating meat (or even drinking or smoking) to earth the energy again.

I just think it is interesting that a spiritual tradition such as Buddhism that is based on hundreds (or thousands) of years of meditation practice and highly developed philosophy (and which has produced some enlightened practitioners), recognizes the “spacey”, ungrounded state as being non-productive for spiritual progress. Whereas the BKs (with their 70 years of rather sketchy history) consider this “zombie” state as highly desirable.
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tom

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post18 Nov 2009

Dear starchild,

Nothing but a gun on my head could force me to eat meat and smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol. I was also years prior i met the BKs vegetarian and a non smoker.

As ex-l mentioned in his last mail, SSRF Spiritual Science Research Foundation does not answer any questions regarding BKWSU. I know because one of my ex-BK friends also wrote a very long report on BKWSU's activities and asked them for their opinion, they answered with a very kind and polite mail (just citing from memory in a nutshell) that it is not their way to give any opinion on other organizations activities, even if it is a possession of a ghost, ghosts are everywhere.

For me, this answer was fair enough, it is their right as a spiritual research foundation to deny any answer regarding their opinion about any other "spiritual foundation" or "organization" or "university" whatever. There are hundreds maybe thousands of "spiritual" cults abusing naive people with legal body of foundations, why should they put themselves into the difficult position of a state prosecutor getting into trouble with some allegations? But they made it clear that if my friend would need their help they would be delighted to help. My friend has not applied for their help, because there was no need.

Chanting is good, even great. All ancient folks, indigenous folks and all folks from different cultures and religions have cured themselves and have got rid of dark souls (even from dark mood) with chanting. There are very nice mantras on the website of SSRF.

I would recommend also Soul Songs and Divine Sacred Soul Songs of Ying Yang and of Five Elements on the website of http://www.drsha.com. There are on the same homepage many video testimonies of previous cancer patients in the last stage of their sickness with only hope of 3 months lifetime, cured themselves with only chanting. Also a patient with kidney failure over 90% waiting for transplant achieved with only chanting in three months 100% kidney function. I have talked to some of them in the teleclasses.

I would also recommend if you like to apply to one of the Certified Master Teachers e.g. Shu-Chin Hsu <schsu@aol.com>, Joyce Brown <mntjaro@comcast.net>, or Marilyn Smith <marilynsmith_1@yahoo.com> and many others, whose skills of soul reading and healing of the blockages on the soul I have watched and admired by many webcast sessions. Please ask them also for the honorary to get prepared, as they are all professional healers.

Or you can chant your own Soul Song and dance your Soul Dance and get rid of all dark souls.

starchild

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Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post18 Nov 2009

Hi Audacity,

I think the your idea for going the hypnotherapy-psychological route is understandable and sensible. It is very important to find the right therapist, and sometimes a bit costly, but some will work according to the clients means. There is a limitation, in that their approach will be focused on you, and what it is in you that brought you to be involved, and why you were so deeply affected ... which is valid up to a point, when you consider that some people seem to come through less damaged than others (as we can see from reading these pages).

The experience in different centres seems to be varying according to the different centre-in-charge and, of course, we all respond differently to any given situation. Also it makes a huge difference to relate to someone who has been through the same experience, as we know from this site.

I think also that it sounds like you may have untreated trauma syndrome, which is very disabling and could account for some of your difficulties. Every therapist will not automatically be trained to treat trauma disorders.

Hi Tom,

I would prefer to chant than to have "Yoga" in the sense that the BKs use the term but, like Audacity, I have become very cautious of spiritual groups and ways. So thank you for that advice.

Although I am a vegetarian, I took alcohol and smoked before becoming BK, and resumed again after I left. For me, I suppose the cruelty to animals and negative ecological impact caused by meat eating is more crucial than the societal and health issues associated with alcohol and drug intake (I also really dislike the taste of meat).

But every one has to make their own choices. Some people feel that they get anaemic and unwell if they do not eat meat.

It's also very understandable to want to rebel completely against the 'Maryadas' as Mr. Green points out, most people then make their own choices as to what works for them.
Audacity wrote:Whereas the BK's consider this zombie state highly desirable

They consider it desirable up to a point. Too too spacey, and they will want rid, in no uncertain terms.

Without any advice either (like to go and have a beefsteak, whiskey and smoke), or even to seek counseling of some sort. That would maybe be too honest and interfere with their karma, and notions of themselves as Godly teachers. Whereas leaving someone floundering around in terrible distress, possibly suicidal (as ex-l pointed out, for years, sometimes decades ), well, that's nothing to do with them, that's your own karma.
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