Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

for concern over cult-related damage, institutional abuse & psychological problems.
  • Message
  • Author
User avatar

tom

ex-BK

  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2008

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post18 Nov 2009

starchild,

I have also consumed once all of them, whatever. I don't need any anymore but allow me to remind you, from my own experience, if one feels low, alcohol or anything else brings us lower and to a more darker place. The feeling of a bit being relaxed and free of any burden is only temporary for a few seconds then the sliding into darker layers starts. Of course, it all depends on how much, how many. The worst part of all of them, including smoking, is that they cut our inner relation or connection to Divine. We feel lost, alone, Divine Light can not diffuse into our feeling of loneliness. This situation is the best invitation to dark souls to come and get attached to us.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post18 Nov 2009

starchild wrote:Is the idea of eating meat or drinking, supposed to be that one would then be on another level from that spirit, who did not partake of them? And could you explain what you mean by the "Left-hand" side approach??

Hinduism, Indian society, is hidebound by rules and inhibitions ... taboos.

The Left Hand Path was the deliberate breaking of those taboos, e.g. eating meat, drinking alcohol, sitting to meditate on the belly of corpses, group sex ... you name it. The racier end of Tantra is "Left-hand" path.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post18 Nov 2009

Thanks Tom and ex-l for those clarifications.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post20 Nov 2009

Tom wrote


....Divine Light cannot diffuse our feelings of loneliness....
- If we smoke or drink?


I don't know. I live in a society where people drink wine with their meals, and take a few drinks socially to relax and have fun and laughs with one another. I can think of a lot worse things. Also their are cultures where smoking is used as conducive to peaceful atmosphere. And marijuana ( a big taboo) has been proven to have major therapeutic effects on very distressing symptoms in various illness. Why would it stop divine connection?? Obviously I know the huge problems connected to addictions etc. but I am of the mind that substances from nature have their uses and benefits.

I do like the chanting idea though, if it has a beneficial effect on the mind and feelings etc. that has to be good, and if one no longer desires intake of drugs or alcohol, no harm with that.
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1877
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post20 Nov 2009

Yes, I agree. There is nothing wrong with a few drinks. Look how popular it is worldwide. Come on, get off the moralistic high horse already.

It is bad and maybe wrong to drink if you are sad and wanting to hide from your feelings. But a few drinks alone or with friends can be a bit of fun, and one day whether you believe in spirituality or not, you are going to die (whatever that means); so why not take a few hours of fun this way every now and then if that's your thing?

Listen, I am not knocking much, except the Brahma Kumaris and, anyway, if you really are aiming to understand yourself spiritually, it really is just a process of letting go, which has to happen to all of us in some way or another one day.
User avatar

tom

ex-BK

  • Posts: 363
  • Joined: 14 Jan 2008

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post20 Nov 2009

Mr Green wrote:It is bad and maybe wrong to drink if you are sad and wanting to hide from your feelings. But a few drinks alone or with friends can be a bit of fun.

Exactly. I agree. Thank you Mr Green.

audacity

ex-BK

  • Posts: 28
  • Joined: 30 Oct 2009

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post21 Nov 2009

Hi Starchild,

I really appreciated your comments. I have actually been wondering about post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), but according to the descriptors for diagnosis given on websites, my symptoms don't seem to quite fit.

"Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, PTSD, is an anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to a terrifying event or ordeal in which grave physical harm occurred or was threatened. Traumatic events that may trigger PTSD include violent personal assaults, natural or human-caused disasters, accidents, or military combat" . From: here.

But maybe that's because the long, slow, drawn-out process of convincing BKs that the world is about to be destroyed by horrible nuclear holocaust doesn't quite fit the normal definition of a traumatic stress event? (And hence our symptoms are also a bit different, noticeably in the way that BKs are also strongly trained to detach and suppress the trauma).

Would you mind sharing something more about your own treatment for PTSD? Nothing too personal, but maybe whether the BK experience was accepted as a life-threatening "stress" perhaps, or anything else that may be useful for ex-BKs considering therapy?

Currently I don't live in a country where psychological help is commonly available (people just drink heavily or commit suicide here), but I will be leaving soon hopefully and would like to pursue some therapy.

Thanks.
User avatar

alladin

no label

  • Posts: 917
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2007

BTSD

Post21 Nov 2009

What we feel in dreams, or imagine, has the same impact on the body as the real things, so it is possible that concentrating constantly on the future holocaust acts as an ever ongoing trauma, like permanently living under Damocle's sword. A lot of Gyan revolves around, and evokes, these type of feelings. In order to remove attachment and promote "unlimited disinterest", BKs receive plenty of input such as" consider the world as a grave, where everybody is already dead, the old house will be knocked down, we are going to move into a new house ...".

They are very strong expressions, like it is often the case in Bhakti, aiming to scare people and persuade them through fear to abandon their comfort zones and certainties. That's the spooky medieval side, counterbalanced partially by some other hallucination-like bucolic images of gardens of Heaven where rivers flow and Gopis dance.

I suppose it is up to the individual whether one should dwell on gloomy atmospheres and develop depression and a hopeless, non-constructive state of mind, or live in Sangam cheerfully, with euphoria and powerful feelings of pride for being "unpollutable", different in every thought, word and action from the current establishment of Kaliyug.

In case nobody has studied it yet, we could start discussing whether there is a BTSD, where B stands for "Before". What is the state of mind of people who constantly wait in anticipation for the apocalypse? What does this collective thought create?

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post22 Nov 2009

Alladin wrote:What is the state of mind of people who wait in anticipation for the apocolypse

Given the various crises that the world faces, it would be reasonable enough to consider that the possibility of disasters happening could be real enough. We have seen the devastation caused by the two world wars, and with the more "advanced weaponry" now ... However, I do not think any sane or compassionate person would desire it. The BKs want it, the sooner the better. Now one of their big notions is that they will be comforting all the suffering souls at that time. I take huge issue with this. After all, they cannot comfort those in distress who are sitting next to them and who they supposedly consider to be their divine family.

Now maybe they believe that everyone will be happier in the peaceful zone. They, of course, will be totally happy in Satyug, being MASTERS OF THE WORLD. That language in itself is highly suspect. Have there been threads already on the time frame of the BKs beginnings and the fact that it seems closely aligned to the rise of fascism on the world stage?

Audacity,

My comments to you about post traumatic stress, was due to reading your posts about your difficulties and experiences and that I seem to have gone through some similar reactions and struggles.

You say that you do not feel you have the symptoms of it, however I skimmed through that article that you included and it seems to me that a lot of people on this site have some of the described symptoms.

Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to isolate how much of the trauma I experienced was related to the BK experience or the leaving of it, or how much was around the tragedy that happened to very close members of my family. What I do know is that the BK experience compounded and increased the problems and also I believe caused a long delay in my coming to a point of finding appropriate help.

I have related parts of this before, and hoping that it is not too tedious, I will write again as some of it directly related to some of the points you have brought up in your posts.

Firstly, you had brought up the subject of whether leaving with a bang or leaving gradually is different.

I was living in a bhavan, and had come to a point where I wanted to move out. At that point I did not feel I was leaving, although having huge difficulties, I thought taking a little distance. I also wanted to get back to college, which I had left to dedicate myself completely to the spiritual path. After all, I thought I had found God. I was by this stage having major doubts about that too but I was in a state of confusion and distress. And, having the conflicts of the threatened punishment, also being not sure whether I was making the right decision etc etc, I knew I was in quite a bad place, and had made the decision to move out. As you all know how isolating that is, what with the label of traitor, failure and all the rest.

Before I had a chance to move however, disaster struck. Some members of my family, who I was personally very close to, died in most horrific circumstances. In my state, after living a surrendered BK life for a number of years, I felt like the very severe punishment promised. But also it seemed that it was those I loved who were the victims of this punishment. Yes, I know that will sound quite mad but I suppose I was quite mad with grief and confusion. I was blasted, overwhelmed with grief and shock.

The outcome was that I stayed another year, and then one day, after a year during which I experienced their discomfort at my (suppressed) distress, the lack of care, the savagely insensitive comments about the KARMA of my loved ones, etc etc ... the list goes on. Well, one day I found myself a flat and left. I did not feel much about the BKs at that time. If I thought about it, it would have been with mixed feelings.

For the next couple of years, it was as much as I could do to get myself through from day to day. My hair fell out, I found some physical therapies helpful but, within all this, I was lost and vulnerable in the way that you described yourself to be.

You experienced in that state, a rape that had been predicted as a punishment if you left. The physical assault itself would have been a huge trauma but, compounded by the unreal state and threats, it surely must have had a damaging effect.

Also the fact that you have difficulties, the feeling of not being able to 'get anywhere', and the lingering fear of punishment are also things I have struggled with.

I got through from day to day in some sort of a way, for a number of years but I was not functioning very well. I tried a few counsellors during that time but they were not suitable for various reasons. I may come back to that again if it would be helpful to you.

Eventually, at a time when I was at a very low ebb, I was put in touch with counseling service. It was a particularly caring environment. They specialized in grief counseling, and counseling people to come to terms with terminal illness among other things. I think this particular therapy is called integrated humanistic approach.

For me, therapy is about creating a safe space. First of all, I had to allow the trauma and grief that I was desperately trying to hold down to surface. A good therapist will help to guide one so that it is not overwhelming. I have also found that creating this space enables the management of issues. In a sense, it is as if you can compartmentalize the problems rather than suppressing, or being driven mad from repetitive thoughts going round and round. You can allow it come up at an appropriate time and then, after working through it, at the right time let it go. It is very painful at times, but for me it was necessary to deal with things, as not to was completely disabling.

Eventually other issues came up in therapy, such as family dynamics, parent and sibling relationships and so forth.

The BK involvement came up at various time and although my therapist never guided me to engage that much with it in my counseling, I had the overriding sense around it of added loss and spiritual betrayal. I don't think I really examined it all that much until I came across this site last year. Then, when I saw that others had experienced the same sense of betrayal and lack of care, I suppose I felt a kinship and wanting to share.

I do not know if this is in any way helpful. I know for myself it is a great help to me when others write about their experience and I say to myself, 'yes, I know exactly that how that feels'. It takes the isolation out of it, because I have just realized that I do not discuss it with other people for the most part.
User avatar

alladin

no label

  • Posts: 917
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2007

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post22 Nov 2009

Before I had a chance to move however, disaster struck. Some members of my family, who I was personally very close to, died in most horrific circumstances. In my state, after living a surrendered BK life for a number of years, I felt like the very severe punishment promised. But also it seemed that it was those I loved who were the victims of this punishment.

This experience you described, similar to what other posters shared, and to mine, which I don't want to make public, is horrific. I don't know what's the definition in psychology, but it reminds me of the cases where a child erroneously believes to have caused a sibling's death (like in the movie on Ray Charles) and is overpowered by guilt for the rest of his life. Or he may think that his parents divorced because he "was bad".

During the last couple of days, I was reading some stuff on "Magical Thinking", here's an article to start with: magical thinking

Some people are very superstitious, or fatalists, and they "read signs" every where. I think that if you are peaceful and "in tune" both with your sixth sense and the Universe, you can have a smooth, fun drive, along with it. But if you are traumatised, deranged, paranoid or an addict, then your negative imagination can really swallow you up and life, becomes a nightmare, in which causes become effects, a friend becomes an enemy and vice versa. Many hallucinations take place. Instead of "catching the sign", one can be totally mislead and deluded.
Then, when I saw that others had experienced the same sense of betrayal and lack of care, I suppose I felt a kinship and wanting to share.

I underlined those two weaknesses the BK family has, because they seem to be some of the most common causes for people to get hurt/disappointed and leave. You may occasionally come across some truly empathic, supportive and wise yogi but lots are dysfunctional people whose heart chakra was already greatly damaged before they came in Gyan. From there on, they comfortably hide behind detachment, introversion, each one has to mind his own biz (every actor plays a different part), let Baba take care of that soul in need.

BKWSU's teachings, all point in that direction of "let him/her deal with it, he'll sort himself out somehow, it is not my karma". Consistent and caring people, may be popular with their friends, but not with SS.

In an army, even the Shiv Shaktis (but is not Shiva the Benevolent one?), everyone has to be tough, not compassionate! Sympathy is ruled out, as a loss of focus, a form of attachment/involvement with another soul. It is good to learn how to take care of yourself first, so that you can assist others better. But if balance is forgotten, selfishness and egocentrism take over and angels become "aliens".
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post23 Nov 2009

alladin wrote:In an army, even the Shiv Shaktis (but is not Shiva the Benevolent one?), everyone has to be tough, not compassionate! Sympathy is ruled out, as a loss of focus, a form of attachment/involvement with another soul.

This is correct and, perhaps, it should actually be correct. Yes, I mean by this that such dispassionate and ultimately independent position is the correct mode for such a spiritual path.

The problem is, that Brahma Kumaris 'Raja Yoga' is not clearly 'sold' as being this. In its desire to expand and financially profit, it attracts and seeks to hold many individuals who, quite honestly, should be told to go away, seek other help and live their lives simply and happily.

To return to the topic title, I still feel a strange pressure or tickling on my third eye area often. No idea what it is, why, or what is going on. During my time with them, I directly experience a few weird psychic things and saw/heard others doing so too - and some being frightened off by them.

Naturally, I do no buy into whatever the BKs might tell me this is as I think 99.9% have no clue at all about psychic or spiritualistic matters and the other 0.1% are actively pushing the many deceits.
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1877
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post25 Nov 2009

I get that third eye thing too.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post26 Nov 2009

I used to also see a flashing spark of light. It does not happen these days.

I know that there is also a biological effect, something to do with one's retina detaching where one sees floating sparks of light, but I have also experienced that and the two are different.

A quick search on Google suggests it is an effect many people also experience outside of the BK experience and that it is known to psychics. I had a non-BK friend who also saw similar, once expanding into an angelic-like character. I make no claims of what it actually is and no longer invest any BK meaning into it.

It strikes me that the BK take anything that has or is happening, from minor psychic experiences to major religions and mentally stick their label on top of it.

starchild

ex-BK

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post26 Nov 2009

I have seen those little sparks or stars a long time before being in the BKs and I still see them. I do not know if it is to do with an eye malfunction or not. Strangely, I cannot recall seeing them during my BK time. Possibly because I was looking at and thinking of points of light ... I don't know. I did have a lot of experiences of light during meditation, for a certain amount of time anyway.

About the third eye sensation experienced by ex-l and Mr. Green. Did you have the same experience when meditating?

I think maybe someone who works with chakras might be able to explain something. I have had healing sessions with people who work with chakras and they seem to be able to sense what is happening with the different chakras. It would be anyway interesting to know a bit more about the third eye and why some meditation groups sole concentration (no pun intended ) on this chakra. I have read opinions which consider this very unbalanced, ungrounded and that it may contribute to the spacy losing touch, that some meditators experience.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10661
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Experiences of negative psychic influence/possession for BKs

Post26 Nov 2009

starchild wrote:Did you have the same experience when meditating?

Yes, very strongly. I think it often gets stronger when I 'tune in', i.e. read BK material, focus on the BKs pictures etc. I suppose some folks would say 'establish a psychic connection'.

I knew another BK who used to be on this forum who got really strong headaches when they meditated, or when someone was meditating near them.
Previous

Return to Abuse & Recovery