Self-Esteem Issues: The Problem Behind All Problems?

Many years later I went to a psychologist for a year. It was helpful but we did not delve into the Raja Yoga stuff. I think that would take someone who had researched and had experience counselling in that area - for me it was mostly self esteem issues which is at the heart of things after all.

Care to mention how that worked and what you learned?

I have to agree with you regards putting BK issues on the back boiler when talking to "professionals" to begin with. I have found even being vegetarian alone is a big issue for some that they cannot accept and are condescending to. The last thing you want to do whilst seeking help is having to switch into BK service mode in order to "give them Gyan" and then explain The Knowledge. However, simple questions like, "why did one choose a female dominated, celibacy following lifestyle?" should probably be brought up as they must suggest obvious causes or sexual/emotional/intimacy issues.

I am not sure that this is a good link, it seems to be a bit of an 'all is everything' pop psychology type argument, but it might be a good starting point for discussion ... Top Ten Facts about Low Self Esteem.

You could see how the Brahma Kumaris knowledge or mythology was initially little more than a low self-esteem therapy for those merchant caste, uneducated and under valued Sindi women, e.g. telling them they were Radhe or going to become Golden Aged queens and empresses. But it too was an empty therapy because no real knowledge or structure was built into them. All they had was to move into the business of low end religion after it failed.

What then to make of the turn to Westerners. Again, aren't the basic meditation, positive thinking self-esteem therapy too? What this quote states is what I feel, "that positive affirmations actually worsen the mood of people who already have low self esteem".

I just think I don't know what it means or how to address it.

The 1980’s drive to raise low self esteem in schools backfired. Why? Well, it was based on the idea that low self esteem can be successfully treated by a bombardment of “positive messages”. But research has shown that positive affirmations actually worsen the mood of people who already have low self esteem. It seems that positive thinking as a “blunt instrument” used repetitively to try to brainwash people to feel better about themselves is too superficial an approach. And the person with low self esteem senses this.

Interesting reading in the link ex-l - plenty to think about. I am honored to share about a subject that is close to my heart. As a young adult I certainly ticked all the boxes of low self esteem. I did everything to overcome it and found I only got worse. Positive thinking, affirmations etc all did not work. In my twenties, I came out of Raja Yoga no different than when I joined. I realize now that is because positive thinking is based on duality - accepting the good and rejecting the bad. The fact is that the problem is not the mind, not bad and good but the act of judging itself. I was very judgmental, had high standards and constantly finding myself wanting and could never live up to my expectations. Judging is battling with the self - a form of spiritual violence. I hated myself and my life spiraled out of control when I left Raja Yoga in my thirties.

Funnily enough, it was fifteen years ago when I was literally at rock bottom in my early forties I discovered self esteem. This flies in the face of the advice given to those searching for self esteem; have a good job, be healthy, have lots of loving people around you. I had nothing in the way of support, money, work or health when I discovered the beginning of a loving connection with 'me'. There are heaps of books around these days for people to learn about this stuff but at the time I had nothing much - simply followed my intuition to a deeper place within. To cut a long story short, I found that I needed to unconditionally accept myself even the part that spits and bites. I found ways to connect with my emotions and embrace myself as a whole. Having a sympathetic psychologist was one of the things that helped change my attitude. She really focused on the inner critic, countering my negative thoughts. At home I spent time drawing, reading, feeling, connecting. It was scary because up until then I was simply floating in the clouds high above my body trying to avoid uncomfortable feelings of fear, shame and guilt.

It was at that time I read a book called The Goddess in Every Woman and the story of Persephone jumped out as the mythology of my life. For some strange reason this book was a turning point - I realized life doesn't have to look pretty to be a valid mythology. I felt deeply validated by this story because it spoke of the darkness as well as the light and began to interpret my life experience from a new perspective. From there my spiritual self began to grow more naturally - sort of having its own momentum - letting things reveal to me and trusting that all is well - a far cry from the past.

I just want to add that I was amazed when a few years ago I briefly communicated with a senior BK who told me that self acceptance is not part of Raja Yoga. I wonder has anything changed?

I just want to add that I was amazed when a few years ago I briefly communicated with a senior BK who told me that self acceptance is not part of Raja Yoga. I wonder has anything changed?

Excuse me interrupting this intelligent discussion with my first reaction, as far as I can concerned now, there is no such thing as a "senior BK" - as in something conferring rank or value - there are only "long term idiots" or liars.

What on earth does "self acceptance is not part of Raja Yoga" mean!?! Is self condemnation part of Brahma Kumari Raja Yoga, or non-acceptance essential starting point? What do they mean, that one should never be comfortable with oneself?

I think it is just one of a few mechanism they build in to defend themselves from the simpler fact that what they do does nothing or does not work. I can imagine it from their point ... all expect to feel bad because you are not perfect yet and only perfection at the very end will feel good. The simpler explanation is just that you feel crap, what are told to believe is false, and what you are doing as a BK is not working.

And, I am sorry, but the BKs do not teach Raja Yoga. At best they teach their own brand of "Brahma Kumari Raja Yoga" but Raja Yoga is just yet another 'religion brand marketing term' they have stolen from elsewhere to add value to what they do.

I just want to add that I was amazed when a few years ago I briefly communicated with a senior BK who told me that self acceptance is not part of Raja Yoga.

ex-l - I knew you would like that one. I must say I was surprised by her defensive comment. I think what she meant was they don't accept the shadow side of the self - at least that's what I was taught. You are only allowed to see and strive for that which is good but the fact is that 99% of our thoughts and feelings are crap, so what do you do with them? Positive thinking reinforces the inner critic that loves to struggle with good and evil, right and wrong. The struggle gives ego a purpose - creating endless drama that includes projecting onto others, creating enemies - the shudras and the ex BKs.

Simply facing and accepting the self totally allowed my mind to resolve naturally without hours of tortuous meditation and painful self examination. The result of facing and accepting for me was peace of mind in the midst of a what was a chaotic life. Gradually over many years my response to life has continued to improve by simply practicing self acceptance. I feel this comes from a higher place of love - not the sloppy sentimental type but just who we are at the center of our being. I accept myself when I am happy but I also accept when I am angry and hurt, unhappy or in pain - this is no small thing as I was literally numbed out by self criticism.

This intelligent conversation may crap a few readers off because they have had enough of spiritual theories and jargon - but I am speaking of my experience and its hard to put into words. There is no one way to self esteem but I know for me that the method taught by the BKs simply did not work. It added fuel to the fire of self denial. I would add that I don't regret for a moment being part of the organisation. It was an intrinsic part of my journey that helped shape the direction of my life - like a marriage, for better or worse. There are times we need to bounce off ideas, even if they are unhelpful, in order to find our truth.

After writing all this and thinking about the past, I have to admit there is one thing I do regret and that is having no support or exit counselling when I left Raja Yoga. Years later when I saw a psychologist it was noted that I had symptoms of PTSD; sleep problems, fatigue, anxiety, depression and low self esteem but I did not make the connection - I was in denial I suppose, hiding the fact that I was a BK, blaming myself and feeling guilty. We spoke only of my childhood and work stress.

Looking back it is sad that I lost many years of my life lost in a fog of depression but at the same time things could have been worse - I was suicidal and at least I am still here to tell the tale. I am told that the BKs now have a duty of care in place and I wonder if they offer exit counselling and support for those who work so tirelessly for the organisation.

This intelligent conversation may crap a few readers off because they have had enough of spiritual theories and jargon - but I am speaking of my experience and its hard to put into words.

It does not sound like theories to me. It is clear that you are talking from your life experience and it makes this conversation very interesting. I am no expert on self esteem but I can relate to everything you said.

Positive thinking is not original to BKism, it was an add-on by Western BKs. Not everyone was comfortable teaching the classic 7 day course. Some would rather teach the positive thinking lessons. It was also a kind of service front to attract people. I personally always felt that most positive thinking approaches were too shallow and artificial. but I must say that it seems to have been helpful to some, although not all. The same applies to BKism as a whole I think: helpful to some but not all. Some say it helped them to an extent but also messed them up.

I do not know how much I might have been and still might be affected by issues of self esteem but what I can say is that before coming to BKism I had become generally unhappy and hopeless and I had come to feel that my life was a failure. I also had severe and debilitating health problems. I often said and still believes that without BKism I would have died of sorrow and would not have made it to this day.

It was my interest for meditation that brought me to the BKs and right from the beginning I had an amazing experience of being distinct from the body, being the life force in the body. I felt eternity, my own as well as the eternity that lies in the indescribable peace and comfort of the world beyond, which clearly felt like my original home. From that I went straight into what I could only understand as being an experience of God's love. I felt like I was coming back home after a life of hardship and found my mother waiting for me and welcoming me with her opened arms. As I laid my head on her chest I was flooded with a depth of love that I thought no human being could ever generate. For the first time of my life I felt understood. Her love shone light on all the beauty that lies within me. I thought that if I deserved such love I also deserved love from my own heart and thus began a long journey of healing. It is only fifteen years later that I began to feel that I was able to have love for myself to a similar extent to what I had felt from God.

BK life was good for me in many ways but overall BKism fell short of fulfilling my dreams and ideals. After 25 years and lots of mixed feelings about BKism I decided to follow my dreams and walked away from my life as a surrendered BK living in a Center. It is around the same time that I came across this forum and learned that there was no God Shiva within BKism prior to 1950. I ended up dropping all my BK beliefs and all my beliefs about God. I think it has been a big step forward for me as it opened me up to many new learning opportunities.

I sometimes feel sorry and at loss that I gave so much of my life into a lie. That is a wound that still has to be healed.

I do not think the time we gave to being part of BK group was wasted. If we went in with good intentions then I believe that counts for a lot. You cannot live BK life without developing certain strengths of character. We lived the life until we had learnt whatever we needed to learn there. I still feel a certain pride about the fact that I was able to live such a devoted life and that I was willing to give it my best shot.

It was an idealistic dream but but there is a beauty in the innocence of following that dream. The BK system is a very interesting mix, in some ways it makes you childlike but in others it develops huge strength of character. Those years are not lost years, I see them as a very important part of my journey. On the mundane human level, the organisation is a bit of a misguided scam but on a spiritual level it is the quest to be closer to God/love, to live a more virtuous life and let some of our most lovely qualities shine and grow.

We turned away from materialism and shallow wasteful things as best we could and reached out to be in touch with our true selves. We got a few things wrong because we put too much trust false idols. We learnt our lesson and walked away with greater humility and wisdom. In the end, it must have taught us greater independence of thought and the power to trust more in our own intuition. By turning our backs on family and friends and being arrogant while being brain washed our inner voices were forced to grow stronger untill they were loud enough to break through the BK conditioning.

I think it was all part of our spiritual growth and did in fact lead to greater self realisation. The sadness and regrets are spiritual growing pains, I feel better looking at it that way anyway. It is like what they said about coal being turned in to diamond. The journey is rarely if ever easy, the more challenging it is the more satisfying the result at the end. I like to believe all that stuff is true.

BK life was just a fragment of our journey, it was a forum where we worked through stuff that we needed to work through and gathered more stuff to work through when we left on next part of our journey, next lesson. We stayed for as long as it provided the lessons/experiences we needed. Life's lessons are unavoidable and will come to us sooner or later which ever path we choose.

That lot works for me anyway .

Hi bkti-pit - wonderful to hear another voice in the ex BK wilderness. Twenty five years seems a long time compared to my six years.

I had an 'ah ha' moment after reading your experience. I realized I was not ready to leave Raja Yoga when I did! I was forced to make a decision which resulted in leaving and that this in itself contributed to my emotional problems. I enjoyed being in the center - it was a particularly relaxed and down to earth group of people. No doubt I would have reached the decision to leave eventually because I was questioning the system. I had a run in with authority because I couldn't find work and when I did find a job it was out of town. At that time there was the idea that there was one way or the highway and the highway meant rejection and failure. Its a long time ago and in retrospect probably happened for the best.

It is interesting to note what you said about the positive thinking courses being a Western idea.

Your experience of meditation is beautifully written. I also experienced from the moment I walked through the door the magic of unconditional divine love. In relation to self esteem, I must say I found it hard to accept that I was unconditionally loved which is part of our human conditioning - something not explained too well at the time.

Part of the improvement in my happiness and self esteem has been the acceptance of my need to live close to nature - plenty of head space. Thats one of the pressures I felt I was under not only from Raja Yoga but also from society to be like everyone else. Its very hard to fit in when one is a nature loving introvert. I recall the phrase - nature Bhagat. That's who I am and I love it!

It was an idealistic dream but but there is a beauty in the innocence of following that dream.

Words of wisdom.

Life's lessons are unavoidable and will come to us sooner or later which ever path we choose.

I must say I have tried avoiding stuff and it eventually caught up with me in one form or another.

I personally always felt that most positive thinking approaches were too shallow and artificial. but I must say that it seems to have been helpful to some, although not all. The same applies to BKism as a whole I think: helpful to some but not all. Some say it helped them to an extent but also messed them up.

The observation that some are helped by positive thinking while others are not seems to relate to self esteem as Joanne Wood, professor of Psychology at the University of Waterloo found when she tested the effects of positive affirmation practice on those with low self-esteem.

The Study

Wood invited 68 people to participate in the study, based on their scores on the Rosenberg Self Esteem Scale. Study participants consisted of those with the highest and lowest scores. Participants were separated by whether they were considered to have high or low self-esteem. These two groups were then separated into a test and control group. Those in the test group were told to repeat "I am a loveable person" every 15 seconds to the sound of a doorbell. All study participates were then told to write about how they felt for four minutes. This was then followed by a mood assessment questionnaire to determine whether or not the affirmations have had any effect.

Results

Study results showed that the participants who tested as having low self-esteem according to the Rosenberg scale actually felt worse about themselves after the affirmations, scoring an average of 10 on the mood assessment that followed. Control participants with low self-esteem who hadn't repeated the phrase scored a slightly higher average of 17. However, participants who already high self-esteems according to the Rosenberg scale had an average mood assessment scale of 31 for those repeating the affirmation and 25 for those who did not.

What Are the Dangers of Positive Thinking? | eHow.com