But they did good things

for concern over cult-related damage, institutional abuse & psychological problems.
  • Message
  • Author

maria

ex-BK

  • Posts: 75
  • Joined: 18 Jun 2008

But they did good things

Post09 Mar 2012

A idea frequently held by ex-members of a cult is, that when they remember their experiences, they believe there were also positive elements. They create a line of memories where not everything seems to be so bad, and that is why they end their comments relating to the cult with, "but they did good things".

So it seems that the sum total is balanced. It seems that the cult had some truth. Something had value. It is important to believe that inside the cult they did good things. Possibly they remember good moments or even favors received.

In this state of mind, it is important to remember that "the good" the cult does is for the purpose of dominating you. The cult's interest in you was just to integrate you. The encouragement given to you in order that you became a better person, was only to train you as a salesperson. The smiles, the good treatment, were so you would feel accepted. You had two worlds; one inside - the good one - and one outside – the bad one. The big goals, that floating feeling when they were telling you something great, were designed to create in you an addiction to emotions.

In a cult, the goodness is like that which an abusive bully throws his victim. Inside the cult, goodness is part of a circle of violation. After the maltreatment comes the calm, like a sort of reconciliation. That calm is a part of the vicious circle. The emotion of love that you felt from that "good" made you dependent on the abusive person; because the illusion of love was giving you hope that everything would become better. Even more, the affection and the maltreatment were making you weak.

As a cult is an environment of abuse, where are the good things? If you do "good" but in the end it it is for bad, was any of it good?

Or was goodness the mask of manipulation?

To think "that they also did good things" is a sign that a trace of the mechanism of negation that you learned inside the cult remains in you.

You learned it in order to not admit what was going on.

For those who think that the basic idea of a cult was good, admitting to themselves that the cult was not good can be very difficult but if a person can do it, then they will be able to accept the fact that they have been deceived. It can be very difficult to do so but in the end, without a doubt, you will feel better. You were not the wolf in sheep's clothing. They did nothing good for you.

From Investiga VS/Facebook
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1877
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: But they did good things

Post14 Mar 2012

Very true.
User avatar

exbkmember

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2011

Re: But they did good things

Post06 Aug 2012

I understand what has been said but I believe it is wrong and unfair to demonise the whole BK group. They are all human beings and most of us here were practicing members among them at one time.

Cults are destructive and the BK organisation is a cult so is destructive. I do not contest that. However, many of us are able to hold on to good things within our experiences there and that is not delusional. I was nice and loving towards people while I was a member and it was not because I wanted to manipulate or trap anyone, it was because I genuinely care for people. I think it is fair to say the same is true for many many BK members. The organization's rules may preach detachment but on a human level that practice is virtually impossible and members care and have feelings for each other and those they meet during service and in life in general.

I do not defend the BK practices or many of the stupid rules, but they are just people like all of us trying the best they can to do right. They have got it wrong; we all get it wrong sometimes. It is part of being human.

A minority of humanity are cruel, cold, twisted, manipulative wrecks and they are in all walks of life. Some have found a place within BK cult but they are in a small minority still.

The majority of BK members are not plotting to enslave anyone. They are just human beings looking for a place to belong. They need support to find their way out.

jann

friends or family of a BK

  • Posts: 1227
  • Joined: 29 Jan 2007
  • Location: europe

Re: But they did good things

Post06 Aug 2012

Mostly the support to get out is their friends and family. Also the ones who become so called "bad company". They are excluded from their life and so there is no support left. That is what they think and believe. Maybe there is where unconditional love starts?

You were nice and loving, what happened when you noticed you had to detach more and more? Did that not go against you love for people?
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10463
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: But they did good things

Post06 Aug 2012

exbkmember wrote:I understand what has been said but I believe it is wrong and unfair to demonise the whole BK group ... The majority of BK members are not plotting to enslave anyone. They are just human beings looking for a place to belong. They need support to find their way out.

I think I could support everything you say, which is why I usually separate the BK leadership from the BK following ... and I think you have a very clear vision of what is going on. And it is logical that BKism would attract all psychological types ... and an innocent, defenceless, naive congregation would appear like a "free dinner" to the second type you mention.

It is interesting, researching the BKs has led me to research psychological types and what you are putting your finger on are, basically, the psychopathic ... or rather the narcissistic element who lack empathy and are even sadistic. Of course few are physically sadistic but I think a few are very skilfully mentally or emotionally sadistic.

See: 'Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited' by Samuel Vaknin and his other works for easy to understand introduction into the latest study in this area.

Joke: how do the Brahma Kumaris manage the possibility of having psychopathic or narcissistic elements within their ranks? Answer ... promote them to center or zone-in-charge.
Narcissists are not evil. They lack other intention to cause harm. Certain n incororporate moral values into their exaggerated sense of superiority. Here moral laxity is seen by the n as evidence of infoeriority .. those unable to remain moral impure are looked upon with contempt by the narcissists. Their abusive behaviour is offhand and absent minded, not calculated and pre-meditated like the psychopaths.

Narcissists are addicted to narcissistic supply ... they need attention, adulation and dependent on others for their sense of self-worth.

They define narcissists as either "somatic" or "cerebral" ... although only qualified mental health diagnostician should determine whether someone suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), who does this remind you of?
The cerebral narcissist is a know-it-all, haughty and intelligent "computer". They uses their awesome intellect, or knowledge (real or pretended) to secure adoration, adulation and admiration. To them, their body and its maintenance are a burden and a distraction.

The cerebral narcissist feels that sex is demeaning and degrading. Acting on one's sex drive is a primitive, basic, and common impulse. The cerebral narcissist convinces himself that he is above all that, endowed as he is with superior intelligence and superhuman self-control. They have no need for sex.

The cerebral narcissist is often celibate (even when married) and become asexual ... and is sometimes a latent (hidden, not yet outed) homosexual.



And, yes, even within the leadership, not all would fit into such a model ... but sometimes I wonder deeply about Lekhraj Kirpalani's mental framework and the legacy it has left upon the BK world. It often seems to me people become possessed by or re-live his madness.
User avatar

exbkmember

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2011

Re: But they did good things

Post06 Aug 2012

The most twisted ones are the ones with highest rank this is true. They need the most help of all as they are most sick. For the safety of others very sick people who refuse to acknowlege they are sick end up in prisons and mental hospitals. The leadership of BK are very sick. Such sickness when combined with high intelligence, high charisma or both is very dangerous.

Being mentally/emotionally unwell is very unpleasant, so I have some sympathy for them, but for the safety of others these most unwell people should be in therapy not running a cult.

I was sick when I joined and I did not know what was wrong with me. I was sad lonely, desperate and in a lot of emotional pain and spiritual/mental turmoil. I sought peace and belonging. I was extremely vulnerable. They offered me acceptance and explanations. I thought I had found a safe place. I was broken when I arrived. I did not need any persuading to join up. I wanted to join them. For me, personally it was what I needed but over time it reached it's limits and became more harmful than good.

I was treated with love and kindness by fellow members. I became aware that I was at times being deliberately manipulated and love bombed also, and that treatment came from the higher rank members who were long term BK. That realisation was painful and it took me years to find the strength to leave. I was cold to my family and work mates while I was a member, and that in part was due to BK brain washing. Also it was in part due to my own undiagnosed aspects. I have Asperger's Syndrome and, recently, I became aware I have borderline personality disorder and have had it since early childhood. BK life did not help me or encourage me to seek help with those issues. My symptoms of these disorders were very much encouraged in BK life.

I had a place to belong with them and I had love and support at times from other members. I was given a purpose and a will to keep living. I am grateful for those things.

I would have done better with appropriate therapy and genuine unrestrained love and support. I had sought professional medical help before I ever met BK. Sadly the medical system failed to diagnose me and offered me no support. My family were sick too so could not help me. I had no friends due to my long standing issues. There was no help available to me. I had been feeling suicidal for 10 years by the time I came in contact with BK. I had been abused and neglected my whole life and was a mess. I was also a very sweet natured person underneath my troubles. I encountered many many people just like me with BK organisation.

I am grateful for having met others like me and for having a place to go when I had no place else to turn. For me it was a life saver. I paid the high price of all the cult turmoil and internal conflict it created. The so called best years of my life were given to BK life but, honestly, I dread to think how much worse off I could have been without them. When I was crying out my heart and soul consumed by the pain in my past, members of the BK were there for me when no one else was. I value that and will never stop valuing that. People did care for me there, some of them also manipulated me and displayed false caring at times but they were/are sick.

I am, finally, on the road to recovery now with no cults or medication or therapy. Over time I have found my own healing from within and I choose to get support from people who are not cult members or financially motivated.
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BK

  • Posts: 10463
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: But they did good things

Post06 Aug 2012

exbkmember wrote:When I was crying out my heart and soul consumed by the pain in my past, members of the BK were there for me when no one else was. I value that and will never stop valuing that. People did care for me there, some of them also manipulated me and displayed false caring at times but they were/are sick.

May I ask you an honest question,

Do you think that those individuals who did help you went beyond the limits of BKism to do so? That is to say, that their actions were an expression of their natural selves and they that acted "above and beyond" what was required of them, or instructed to them, by the BK system?
User avatar

exbkmember

  • Posts: 29
  • Joined: 05 Nov 2011

Re: But they did good things

Post06 Aug 2012

Yes, they acted as human beings. I do not attribute their goodness to their being practicing BKs at the time. My pleasant memories of BK life are attributed to human conections and shared experiences. Even some of the manipulative and often cold senior members displayed genuine human caring at times. The sad thing is that I could see the conflict this caused within them. Any display of affection like giving a hug to someone in tears seemed out of reach for some of them. Those at the very top are totally deluded at best and cruely deliberately manipulative for their own gain at worst.

Those at the bottom often don't stick around long or they struggle along as best they can while still having some conection with real world. The ones I feel worst for and the middle layer who run the small centres. They are trapped in an impossibly awkward situation being used as pawns. They have to mix with the more worldly lower level BK followers and students but at the same time they are constricted by believing it is wrong to feel affection, wrong to become attached, wrong to question the teachings, wrong to have time to just enjoy themselves, wrong to express their individuality.

I could see the battle within them and it was distressing to witness. They probably could all be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and other disorders.

They should be stopped but also not demonised in process as they are victims themselves. The senior management should be locked up and offered therapy but doubt they would accept it.

dany

  • Posts: 192
  • Joined: 11 May 2012

Re: But they did good things

Post06 Aug 2012

" The road to hell is paved with good intentions " ..!!

Return to Abuse & Recovery