Stupidity of so called Seniors

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Affected BK

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

When I started following BK-Gyan, I was told that it is Baba’s Shrimat not to accept any donation from the person who is not following Shrimat, and only the donation of Baba’s children is to be used to run the Yagya. Also, it was told that only that money to be given in Yagya, which the followers think that he has saved after following Baba’s Shrimat (i.e if he gave off the habit of eating non-veg, consuming alcohol, spending un-necessarily in materialistic things) that amount should be given to Yagya which will be used in seva only. This was happily welcomed.

Later on it is formulated that a fix percent of your income has to be given in the Yagya to ensure the high status in heaven. Kumars were given the direction to make 4 parts of their income.
    (1) Centre Seva
    (2) Madhuban Seva
    (3) Personal Seva
    (4) Savings for the future
After the course of time, especially after the demise of Dadi Prakashmani, the so-called Centre-in-Charges turn the total system upside down. They started to demand directly to contribute financially and materialistically to the Yagya. They were emotionally pressurizing to donate and that to in their personal names only, which I objected many times and faced the consequences in the form of being ignored, neglected and many other types of mental pressures. Their direct words were that ...
“if you cannot do seva, at least support the Yagya by giving the money. If you do not donate it to Yagya, soon it all will go in to the dust".

Affected BK

questioning BK

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

quantum wrote: ... she has damaged many lives and continues to do s o....'Wicked Sister' ... shameful.

Who gave right to these pigs? They loot in day light with authority ...

Quantum, can you please tell the instances for the above.

Save Innocents

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

Thanks Kumar for telling this, now i can inform parents of my BK friend about all this stuff. He has recently got a job & may be Didis have told him same thing. As per instruction of BKs, he behaves weirdly with his family members especially his mom & dad, both remain too much worried about him but he neglects. He even once scolded his mom in front of me. I felt ashamed at his attitude towards his parents & understood that the family relation may end up if his behavior does not change & if keep on following BK instructions.

The initial part you described is exactly same as what was said to me by BK Didi.

Where are current BKs? What is too "good" about all this? Trying to find something "good" from BKism is much similar to searching eatables from garbage. That can help them in surviving but do you prefer such way of survival when million other ways are available.

Affected BK

questioning BK

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

Save Innocents wrote:Thanks Kumar for telling this, now I can inform parents of my BK friend about all this stuff. He has recently got a job & may be Didis have told him same thing. As per instruction of BKs, he behaves weirdly with his family members especially his mom & dad, both remain too much worried about him but he neglects.

This is exactly my case ... I was more or less the same as above, and not only me there were/are many.

After bursting the BK bubble, the actual realization comes and by that time it is “too late”. We become insoluble in lokiks. That is the time the “tears of blood” come.

“Too late” and “tears of blood” are terms used by BKs referring to, NOT FOLLOWING the BK Gyan, but actually, one realizes it after FOLLOWING it “earnestly”.

quantum

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

I have experienced the ruthless manner in which Didi Nirmala extracts money out of BK's.

If you are on a low income ect, and cannot give as much as some others, she will call you aside in private and question you as to why you, "why are you not giving more money to Baba?" But to me, worse than that, is her hostile and strong dominating and demanding approach!! ... She really demonstrates that it's all Baba's money and her right to act in a bullying and accusing way and you are to 'please explain' to her!

I am sorry if I need some bus money or any personal item for my self! ... She looks quite frightening and her eyes swell up like black pools of madness ... that's what I mean by her 'demon heads'.

I certainly felt my value and importance as a dedicated adherent went down in here eyes due to only being able to donate a smaller regular amount. It's completely Cultish! ... Her personal treatment of individuals is very much based on how much cash they offer and ongoing! ... as has recently been mentioned here by sunil7979.

If you cannot or don't wish to continue donating losts, she gets enraged, and it's a shock at first ... and you are treated badly by her after that ... like punishment and emotional and spiritual blackmail ... she's a dog! ... I swear.

warrior

working towards unification

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

Oh dear! This kind of behavior means that she has not met God or Supreme Shiv still and she doesn't even know how to remember Baba.

Save Innocents

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

Kumar wrote:This is exactly my case ... I was more or less the same as above, and not only me there were/are many.

Thanks for responding so positively. Though it's off the topic yet can you suggest how to bring him back to normality? He does not care about anything I tell him, anything which takes him away from BKism.

Recently, even in Rakshabandhan, her Sister tied a Rakhi & those BK monsters too tied a golden Rakhi on his wrist which had, I think, the Om symbol on it.

Next days, I saw that the one tied by his Sister was not there but that BK Didi presence was very much in his heart & on his wrist. He has somewhere started ignoring his Sister too who loves him beyond anyone's imagination.

On the same day, both visited my place & her Sister said that one can say anything to me but if someone ever tried to hurt my Brother I would kill her, while she was describing a school incident.

As you have gone through this, please suggest me that most suitable way in which he can be convinced & brought back. I tried to show him this site but he refused to see it just once & said that it is Maya & the site is run by those who have conflicts of interests with Lekhraj. I understood it that this is one other reason BKs are spreading to keep them away from any such source which exposes their system.

Lately, he has started showing a strange behavior which is mainly for profits but still I can see that he has that friend type feeling somewhere in his heart which pushes him to meet me whenever he visits nearby BK center. I am just giving myself & him a chance right now, if he behaves too strangely, I would end that friendship forever. Suddenly, the friend who used to believe & share everything has become so confined & started finding my faults.

I am still holding that relation for about 6 years. The worst incident (6 years flashback) of me trying him to be away from BKism left me tear-eyed & I was just unable to imagine how it happened that time. I hardly cry but he made me. Next day I got a fever, he came & apologised indirectly while discussing subjects.

It is rightly said the one to whom you are extremely attached brings maximum suffering. Mmm ... do I appear too concerned or is that normal?
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ex-l

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post18 Sep 2014

You are perfectly normal and reasonable but, sadly, your experience with a friend who has become a BK is also typical.

If the Sister saw what has happened, she would be deeply hurt ... but that is what the BKs do. They will be tell them that his Sister's rakhi is impure, she is impure and attachment to her is impure ... while attachment and replacement of affections and loylaty to THEM is pure.
Save Innocents wrote:... the site is run by those who have conflicts of interests with Lekhraj.

This is madness. No Western BK or ex-BK ever met Lekhraj Kirpalani. He died before overseas service began ... how can they make up such fabrications.

They know who is behind the site and so they know it is a total lie, and yet they still manipulate their mind controlled adherents.
kumar28061972 wrote:“if you cannot do seva, at least support the Yagya by giving the money. If you do not donate it to Yagya, soon it all will go in to the dust".

A shocking manipulation but one which we have heard time and time again.

They have even invented a new yukti which they did not use in my time. They say that Om Radhe (Mama, number 2) had to die and reincarnate ... get this ... "in order to do service by money".

That is, they say because Om Radhe came to the Yugya as a fatherless girl with no money, she was lacking in one subject ... giving money to the BKWSU/PBKIVV. Therefore in this life she has to come back in order to give money to them. You can see the logic ... if even Mama, number 2 soul, has to give money to the PBKIVV what do YOU have to do!!!
quantum wrote:... she's a dog! ... I swear.

Hmmn, most dogs I met I very loving, loyal and trustworthy ... and very soul conscious. They don't care whether you are poor or rich, fat or skinny, ugly or beautiful, wise or stupid. They are generally full of love and highly protective, not exploitive. ;)

I think you should apologise to dogs all over the world for having liken BK leaders to them.

Of course, in English we have the word "*****" and it has two meanings, so I guess you might mean that.

On the basis of everything else we have heard, I can believe you and thank you for adding your experience.

When someone is that rude, in my opinion, it is permissible to be equally rude back if necessary. Play by their rules but better.

I generally take it calmly ... stage by stage.

I ask them politely to stop. I tell them to stop and warn them what will happen if they do not. And then if they do not stop, I tell them to apologise and where to go, in very plain language and if necessary chase them verbally afterwards when ever I see them until they change for the better.

What is most important is 'intention'. If you intention is pure ... to help reform them ... it does not matter what you do or say.

It is not wrong to be forceful to defend you wallet from a mugger.

Affected BK

questioning BK

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post19 Sep 2014

Save innocents wrote:Though it's off the topic yet can you suggest how to bring him back to normality? He does not care about anything I tell him, anything which takes him away from BKism. Please suggest me that most suitable way in which he can be convinced & brought back. I tried to show him this site but he refused to see it just once & said that it is Maya.

The bringing back of such individuals really depends upon the level of their brainwashing. Whatever you tell him against bkism will be Maya for him, so stop the effort of convincing him. The family members love is nothing but Maya for typicals BKs. They do not care its value. For them the love full Baba’s love is much more above than those of the family members.

I was getting very panic and angry when-ever any family member is expressing their love to me, the stage is still there and it is very difficult to overcome, once you are completely under the influence of BK’s so called ruhani love.

The best thing you and his family can do is, get hard on him, and put his words in his mouth only. Yes, it will be difficult and It will require hard determination and firm mind. What you can do is, leave him totally on the BKs, i.e. stop fueling everything like money, mutual small events of happiness, family gathering. Just ignore him totally and teach BK Gyan back to him. He will realize then only. Feel and understand his realization, and then you can pull him back seeing a good time.

My family members were behind me for 12-13 years, and I did not value them. I realized only when they dropped me out of their lives. But now it’s too late for me.

kmanaveen

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post19 Sep 2014

I would agree with Kumar here. It will be difficult to bring him out by opposing BKs and trying to show him this site etc. Sometimes, such efforts go very against the idea and the person feel there has to be some truth in them if so many are against them and they take it as challenge to support what they feel are pure victims (for instance, BKs for your friend SI as he feel all are against them when you show him this site).

Why not simply forget him for few months and let him completely enjoy BKism. Just do not discuss anything about it. I understand, it may be hard for you but I know many persons who out of fear of God and some half-cooked weird ideas of Spirituality, try to make best of both the worlds. They find pampering of BKs essential for them to be with them (and BKs know this very well) as well as to show off ´their´new knowledge to the outer world as symbol of their purity and power and demand respect from them too.

Absence of outer world will make them realize its importance as Kumar mentioned. Also once the honeymoon phase is over, often intellectuals begin to see the reality emerging slowly. That may be the time for you to discuss your ideas and arguments logically and to bring him back.

Save Innocents

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post19 Sep 2014

If it is possible then please someone add this discussion to new thread. It is going off topic but important for me to sort out the my problem or the cause that brought me here.
Kumar wrote : I was getting very panic and angry when-ever any family member is expressing their love to me, the stage is still there and it is very difficult to overcome, once you are completely under the influence of BK’s so called ruhani love.

Kumar, your situation sound exactly like that of my friend. Even he gets angry when someone (family members) expresses affection towards him. Moreover there is a kind of indirect abuse he always does whenever he visits my place ... like if I offer him anything to eat, he rejects or make some excuse like he already had it or he has some digestion problem or that it is not sattvic or whenever he eats it. It is done with sad face, or like he is suffering while eating, and his expression shows that he is trying to remember that dirty Baba as they say - eat in Yaad.

It is just sanskaars which makes us ask & offer whatever we can to our guests otherwise the way he behaves is so unusual. But this is not so when he is accompanied by his family members, at that he eats anything offered happily. I think BKs behave differently when they are alone, not with closed ones & that is why they try to get away from family.
The best thing you and his family can do is, get hard on him, and put his words in his mouth only.

I did it twice & it worked, he bahaved normally for hours afterwards. But that is the hard way, at least I don't like that behavior of mine myself. And his family members, they are so seedha-saadha people who would keep on supporting him even if he rejects them.

Whenever I call him (yes, he hardly bother to call me), he complains about behavior of his mother which is very much same as that of any parent. As he lives in other district, so his mother cries (not always but just rarely) when she calls him & look at the inhuman behavior, he accuses his own mother of this emotion. I think more about his family members, as when I am just an outsider, met him randomly for few years but later on got hurt with his changed behavior, what impact would be on parents if he behaves that way with them too?

I know I am partially responsible for it too. He joined BK because he was under deep depression of lack of friendly support. I left the coaching classes where we met & used to discuss problems together. And just after few weeks, he got under this severe depression but did not informed me anything. In such situation, his parents rushed to docs but at last he found peace in BK centers, i thank BKs for that, but later on he started changing to worse.
What you can do is, leave him totally on the BKs i.e stop fueling everything like money, mutual small events of happiness, family gathering.

That may work for removing my problems, I don't think he is going to change. He already treats me partially as an outsider, when I call his first statement is - Aj phone kaise kiya? Yaad aa gayi?.
Just ignore him totally and teach BK Gyan back to him. He will realize then only. Feel and understand his realization, and then you can pull him back seeing a good time.

i think may be leaving him would be lot easier or he will hurt a lot. I cannot see him ruined by BKs. So, may be better would be to leave him on his terms. At least after going through so many experiences here, I am too doubtful of bringing a change, that too in a BK. Leaving on his karma may be better.

And I feel sorry for you. It must never happen to anyone. I misinterpreted your experience & commented earlier as usual, I really apologize for that.

Now, do you talk to your family members or vice versa ?

Save Innocents

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post19 Sep 2014

Thanks kmanaveen for the suggestion, i have to stop thinking about it, shall i tell his parents or Sister about this site as they are completely unaware about BKWSU realities? They still think that he is going to center for some good Yoga sessions.

kmanaveen

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post19 Sep 2014

SI wrote:shall I tell his parents or Sister about this site as they are completely unaware about BKWSU realities? They still think that he is going to center for some good Yoga sessions.

You may wish to take out certain points from the site and discuss face to face with his parents. They may not spend that much time on internet reading all this. Moreover, at this point of time, more opposition from parents might go bad for all the relations your friend had.

He, whether he wants to be a BK or not, is your and his parents loved one and as far as we understand another BK victim. Also, his parents have seen him in deep depression and for them he might be better a BK than a depressed person. I don't know if it has helped him come out of depression (that could happen too!), but if that is the case, for parents it's a very difficult situation.

Therefore, IMHO let him be what he wants to be for some time. Give yourself also quality time to gain inner strength. Everyone has the freedom to attempt different ways to explore life towards God or spirituality and friends are always as great support you if you lose a track!
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ex-l

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post19 Sep 2014

Yes, I think it is good advice, in the first place, to take what you think is most suitable from this site and filter out the rest. We really need to make a simple leaflet people can download and print out to give to 'friends and family of' to protect themselves, or individuals being enculted into the Brahmakumaris in order to warn them, wake them up again.

But be aware, to quote the parents of one of the first Western BKs
"the only thing the Brahma Kumaris taught our son to do was lie [to us]"
.
And lie well. Like you say, they will be initially be fooled by what is going on and then deliberately be fooled. I know this because I was directly instructed on how to do so (fool or lie to my family and exploit legalities) by some very high ranking BKs. It is their policy.

It's a very difficult call to make. In my opinion, the BKs are exploiting his depression and will slowly cook him into becoming a BK and utterly and unquestioningly surrender to them.

However, on the outsides of their cult ... the facade ... the simple, gentle, sensitive environment where your friends are not pressurised by family members, bosses, superiors, work or relationship issues is attractive to weaker or sensitive individuals who find the real world difficult for whatever reasons.

It is a failing of society today that on one hand it is rough and demanding; and, on the other hand, it has very few resources to help such individuals become better and stronger. You might have to look at the root causes whether they are individual (chemical, biological, sexual, e.g. marital pressure or latent homosexuality), familial (unhappiness within the family), or even societal (caste and cultural).

Perhaps you can get him to talk and explore those?

Be aware though, the BKs give such individuals a new narrative, a new mental story, which takes their problem and turns it into a valuable path to their god ... as I remember one of the first high profile BKs to leave the BKWSU said to me,
"The BKs told me to believe I was strong and special [to surrender to them], but I realise now I was just weak, frightened and confused".

This was an individual being groomed to becoming one of the inner circle. They left and started to rebuild their life for real.

BKism, like all other "happy, smiley cults", gives such individuals a ready made mask to hide behind whilst they address ... or do not address ... the personal and psychological problems they have. Think this, do that, wear this, speak this way, walk this way, eat this way, only associate with these people ... it provides them a total, alternative identity to the one they were not happy in.

If they do not address those issues, they will become sucked deeper and deeper into BKism and may, like drug addicts, change from being a victim ... a drug user ... to becoming a drug dealer or pusher to support their habit.

Those that do address those issues we soon see through what is going on and leave. The sooner the better.

It's another failing that society does not provide *safe* ashrams for people to go to. Perhaps that is what they really need and you can give ... to be sent away somewhere and given time to think and sort themselves out from what they are trying to escape from internally, e.g. invite them to move out of their home and stay somewhere else.

However, if they have already been infected by the BK virus, they will probably just use that time to go even deeper into BK addiction.

I would say that his new found eating disorder is a symptom that the BK virus is getting deep into him. They tell him he cannot eat your food because you are impure and your (or cooks) vibrations will pull him down.

To begin with they will say, "OK, eat your family's food in remembrance as it is cooked with love" ... but eventually they will stop or wean him off that too.

They work on a 'slowly, slowly catchee monkey' strategy ... "taking the pulse" so see how far they can push any individual at any given time. Slowly pushing them further and further until, bang, they have them 100%.

At that point all the family can do is protect their own money and property because that is what the BKs will be after next.

Any money or property they have, or give to the individual, will go to the Brahma Kumaris ... therefore, unfortunately, at that point the only thing to do is cut the individual off entirely.

Trust me, we have seen it time and time again ... we have even seen BK adherents becoming enraged when they don't get money to give, stealing food and items to give to the BKs, neglecting their children, fighting legal battles over properties, supporting centre leaders to do credit card frauds etc etc etc.

Affected BK

questioning BK

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Re: Stupidity of so called Seniors

Post19 Sep 2014

The leaflet work should be done on priority. It will save thousand of individuals and their families.
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