Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

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ex-l

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post16 Oct 2014

From: Leaving the BKs

I think I only have about one individual who I introduced to the BKs left in the system. I feel pretty bad about it but they seem to have adopted and found a life they like. At least I hope they have. But I often think of what they lost and the waste of their life.

One other died in a car accident. It's an open question whether typical BK tiredness played a part in the accident. Death is not the best way to leave the BKs, but the only way for many.

Thankfully most people who start the 7 Day Course bailed out after a few classes. It was wrong really, they came looking for "peace of mind", and the 7 Day Course tried to push them into the sausage machine and produce a "Brahmin" at the other end. Normally 'The Cycle' lesson was enough to spin them out.

We never used to ask but I suspect the ones that left realised it was a cult trying to grab them, even if we did not realise that we were acting like cult members trying to encult others.
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Mr Green

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post17 Oct 2014

I also brought quite a few into the BKs, I hope they are in a better place now,

Don't blame yourself ex-l.
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ex-l

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post18 Oct 2014

Mr Green wrote:Don't blame yourself ex-l.

I do actually. It's quite a tough thought for me.

I was an idiot through lack of experience in life (I was young when I was started to be used by the BKWSU), and I allowed them to use my gifts, talents and personally appeal to encult others. Of course, back then, I have no idea what they were really like. I was easily manipulated and controlled to accept their utter nonsense and, in truth, running around like a headless chicken acting out.

Although even they would not hold me responsible, and presumably they are happy in their little virtual "family", I think to myself, "I took their life, and certainly a family from them, e.g. children etc".

The funny thing is, even after I had left, I was still "under the influence" and "serving" basically all and any individuals I interacted with ... this was when Destruction was going on happen between 1986 to 96, so I was very conflicted thinking, as BKs do, that it was my responsibility to give them a chance or introduce them to BK ... "just in case" it was all true. Even though I had seen enough crap to have to walk away, I could not deny them that chance ... "just in case".

It took me a good few years to give it up even after I was not going back any more, and found it extremely uncomfortable when or if ever I did.

I am going to be extremely discriminatory here. There are quite a few individuals who, to be quite frank, it does not really matter if they are 'in the BKs'. I am thinking of some of the oddballs, the broken or "invisible" people, the quiet mouses who don't even do much in the BK and for whom it is an accepting refuge from the roughness of life. And for a lot of Hindis, especially in the West, it's really not that much different from Hinduism and a reminder of "home" (India); something the BKs exploit. It's just a priesthood on a throne and them sitting on the ground giving money and earning good karma.

But the individual I was thinking about was a good person. Not a "giant" but just a great - ordinary person. A much better person than me. They could have had a much more broad, colourful life. Sure, they would have had their problems and heartbreaks, but that's just part of life.

I think what we did, what we were trained or encouraged to do, was essentially use our powers of seduction to seduce individuals not for ourself or not into our family ... but into the Kirpalani Klan family. Not just members of the opposite sex, and I would say that was more true of the way the Sisters did service, but also of the same sex ... since actual sex was removed from the equation.

Of course, some BKs were more seductive or attractive than others and what they were doing was, essentially, using or prostituting their personality and appeal to entice other individuals in mentally or emotionally.

The BKs framed this as a kind of "mothering" ... a "giving birth" to a new baby BK who would then get extra love and attention from "the family" until they grew up, at which point they were "weaned off" their human support - usually around the "Honeymoon Period". and left to thrive, survive or "die" "married" to Baba.

Look at the language and conceptuality of that. I think as BKs were were conscious of the mothering, the Honeymoon Period, the marriage (all constant references) but not of the seduction and consummation that led to making a BK baby.

Now, it is clearly not looking like there is any truth to the BKWSU and so I think I took a life, and thank the real God I only took one life (there were a couple of others at the most, but they left a long time since too). Not deliberately so, I was drunk ... in a state of mental illness ... and out of control, but kind of like, e.g. responsible for causing car accident which killed someone.

Being a BK is being in a state of induced mental illness ... a sort of mental contagion passed down from the mental illness that be fell Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Om Mandlite ... a foreign mental illness, like one can catch a tropical diseases which one has no immunity against ... and I passed it on. In fact, I see it now as a mental illness that encourages you to pass it on, like some sexually transmitted disease.
contagion (noun)

: a disease that can be passed from one person or animal to another by touching : a contagious disease

jann

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post18 Oct 2014

You can never blame yourself for anything, you were all under a spell, not yourself and great actors on service. I was a service object/subject/experiment for a long time and saw with my own eyes what happens to a person getting more and more in the claws of the BKs and how it still not leaves you, it still did not leave me and I am not even a BK, well I did the 7 day course and the "advanced" course so I guess I am/was ... I blame myself for being so blind but how could I know the BKs real agenda which was to recruit me and keep me quiet.

I have a whole bunch of pictures where the physical and psychological downfall of a person can be seen, even failing remembering Baba ... Totally exhausted, sick and unhappy, and me caring to exhaustion trying to make it all better. Unfortunately simple caring and loving was seen as being the oppose. "Baba is this person the oppose"? "Baba is this food made for me pure'? I created a very low self esteem. My food is no good, my care and love is no good. My body seemed to be dirty ... my thoughts, my life all is no good. Advantage was taken of me big time, my trust, my loyalty and my facilities. It cost me money, time, and a whole lot of unnecessary thinking putting myself down.

Before the BK encounter I was a different person. I created a no nonsense life for myself and I finally reached my dream where I would life the rest of my life in peace and I worked very hard for that. I was an easy target being "the new kid in town", trying to make some new friends. I have to start all over now after a very long time. Make new friends only this time without the natural love for others, without trust but with suspicion, I closed up, while I was a very open and spontaneous person.

I feel some sort of anger towards the BK org and to myself for being so stupid, for being mislead by someone not aware of the thought reform that was occurring, and while my life was to be living my dream it took a whole new turn. To educated myself and others on cults and how nasty they make other people, their followers who can not be blamed for the outcome of the misuse they undergo which is used on others.

I still love my friend knowing I can not blame him and hoping everyday he will see "the light". I do blame the BK org. and their nonsense. They need to stop!
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Pink Panther

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post19 Oct 2014

You can’t blame yourself.

If not you, it would have been someone else. Not everyone who encounters BKs becomes a BK, only those with "bad karma" - i.e. only those who have the propensity to be drawn in.

And if they had not encountered BKs but another similar group first, they would have been drawn in by them. Whether that would have been better or worse no-one can say for sure, except maybe if it was one of those groups where corruption and distortion is more obvious - that would have been better because it makes leaving it all behind easier.
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ex-l

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post19 Oct 2014

"Blame", that's a difficult word but feel or accept responsibility, I have to. In the same way a drunk driver must take responsibility for hitting some child with their car.

I realise now that I too was fooled and manipulated but I willingly became part of the system which fooled and manipulated others. I think, looking back, I must have been acting out in some neurotic state that I was not fully conscious of, like any evangelist for any cult.

I cannot say I really believed in "making subjects", "finding my devotees", or even "earning a high status and riches for the Golden Age". Those are not my style. So why was I doing it?

Seeking love and acceptance from my new "family", the Kirpalani Klan and its followers? It's almost like you are robotised.

Clearly, in my youth and inexperience, I failed to carry out 'my' duty of care to properly research the BKs before committing to them and trying to suck in others. I've done that now, since. I was on a 'high' to begin with, like some manic depressive "running on service" because Baba or the Seniors told me. I suppose it gratified my ego making me feel like I was special or superior too. And there were extra rewards for being a good teacher (aka salesperson).

My goodness ... if you were really skilful you might even be asked to share the dinner table with the Senior Sisters and some IP (important person) or VIP (small fish). VIP service they used to call it.

I never made it that far though! I was too low ranking. But, at the time, I would have done anything just for the free dinner!

Otherwise, you were lucky if you were even given an unripe Apple or fatty sweetie for your time and efforts.

I remember when I joined the BKs, you were encouraged to clear your karma, and earn your fortune, by contacting all your old friends and family etc to apologise or/and give them the "good news" ... God had come etc. What an embarrassment now to think of it ...

But when you became an ex-BK, when you finally gave up on the system and failed to be able to patch up a defence to the philosophy in your own mind, did you contact all those you had enculted, or even speak openly to those at your centre?

I, and I think most, just slipped out the door quietly and stopped coming back.We "died". Some even just left everything behind them. Years of work and relationships.

Part of the brainwash programme is, of course, to defend enculted BKs from what leavers might make them think, e.g. we were the "failures", the "traitors", the "weak bricks", the "lowest of the low". Those are all genuine quotes. We were the "donkeys" who failed to understand and, hence, were merely going to earn a low status at the end of the Silver Age.

Can anyone say how they felt watching someone leave when they were a BK?

Has anyone been able to talk to individuals they encouraged and how did they respond?

Thanks
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Mr Green

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post20 Oct 2014

You did not know what you were doing, you were Kumbakarna. You were, as you said, mentally ill.

I drove two Brothers home from a Brothers' bhavan, who were leaving Gyan.

Both lovely guys.

It felt weird, but I had nothing but respect for them. No judgement.
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ex-l

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post21 Oct 2014

I suspect you were an outstanding BK. And have "detachment"!

Did you feel like you were driving a "funeral car"?

And what of those BKs who would have to admit they were actually fond of the exiting BK?

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post21 Oct 2014

Thank god, I never recruited anyone or I could not have forgiven myself ever or it would take whole life to forgive yourself. One thing i regret is not alarming others coming in center about its reality which I understood within few weeks. I knew that there was huge donation pouring in, no Yoga ever happening, more like a zombie approach than healing etc etc.

I left BKism but still motivated my friend to become a pakka follower initially (was unaware of these all crimes happening there for decades) as I believed that if you have to do anything do it with integrity or leave it. And, he was very much into BKism & more like attached to a family by then, so it was hard to ask him to leave though I tried it first but later advised him to keep following BKism if it gives him peace.
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Mr Green

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Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recruited

Post22 Oct 2014

It did feel a bit like a funeral I suppose. Yes, I had become very detached by then.

Still am.

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Re: Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recru

Post23 Oct 2014

During the period of my pukka BK, at many occasions I explained the pictorials of 7 Days Course and felt contented that I have done seva, not with the intention of finding my devotees and making my praja, but I always tried to seek love and acceptance of the Seniors and the SS. Overall I wanted to uplift myself in the eyes of myself. I wanted to tell my self that my life is worthy and I am doing the highest of high seva of giving the people the Godly knowledge. But, at the same time, I was feeling ashamed that none of the persons whom I explained The Knowledge to became pukka BKs, and I was feeling guilty inside that I am not powerful yogi and not able to convince others and turn them in to the BKs.

I explained The Knowledge to my real Brother, who was happily married and leading a very successful life, because of me he joined the BKs, got some intoxicated experience and continued in Gyan for 3-4 years. Finally, he understood and realized the bulls*** and tried to tell me, but I was pukka, so finding no other alternative he threw away the BK Gyan and ME out of his life.

NOW HE IS HAPPILY AND SUCCESSFULLY LEADING HIS MARRIED LIFE AND TAKING GOOD CARE OF HIS FAMILY AND PARENTS. I AM SIDE TRACKED.
ex-I wrote:Can anyone say how they felt watching someone leave when they were a BK?

One more BK I know, who got married after following BK Gyan for many years. I saw him drifting away from Gyan. Initially I thought that he is poor fellow and trapped under the influence of Maya. Later on, after seeing his happiness, worthiness and contentment in his life, I felt jealous of him. May be because inside I always searched for the spiritual partner but did not dare because of Bkism. I lacked what he got. He was coming to center during some functions or events.

I was avoiding him, I was jealous of him.

raistlin75

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Re: Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recru

Post26 Oct 2014

Fortunately, I did not manage to personally recruit anyone when I was a BK. My mother was doing this for almost 15 years - she was a BK teacher and hosted a lot of BK programmes in my hometown, in a local cultural centres.

I managed to cut her off the BKs last year. I had to use physical violence to her to do so - she gave me no choice and I had to set ultimate conditions to her as well.

I did not want to tell you about it, because I don't feel it is my success at all. It cost me too much. It was exhausting for us both, but it was absolutely necessary. In this case, "the end justifies the means" was more important to save her.

Yes, after 21 years of active BKism she is no more a BK. She eventually started to pay attention on diet and regularly makes medical checks and she leads a healthy life. And I can see the present results - my mother started to live actively, she made some new (non-BK) friends, started to learn English, soon she is starting the computer course for the beginners, she lets herself to sleep as long as she needs, etc.

Yes, this all is really fantastic, but I will always have in my mind what monster I had to be to succesfully managed to cut her off of the BKs in May 2013.

For many years I too was completely unaware of all these crimes in the BKWSU and I was watching many times some local dirty wars between the centre-in-charge Sisters, surrendered ones and the "ordinary" BKs - men and women and their disgusting intrigues and plots like in a cheap Latin soap opera.

And I did not care about that at all. The directions of God were much more important for me at that moment, even though if one of the abusers was my own mother. It took me seven years after I quit the BKs to be able to eventually see what swamp that organization is. But first I needed to "grow up" even though I was 32 at that moment.

And then I began to feel confused, guilty and ashamed of many things I could change, if ... Exactly, "if", but I did not do anything.

Mea culpa. I was a coward unable to start to criticize the authority of the local leader who was vain and dominating tyrant but also of great charisma and her bitchy "right hand" who terrorized us all forbidding us to use sugar. If we knew she is about to come to the centre, we were finishing quickly to eat some sweets. She was totally obsessed on vegetarian diet and healthy food and therefore as a "vege-fundamentalist" very dangerous, also extremely dominating, toxic and the same very influential.

I never was a rebel, and the BK leadership knew that I am not dangerous to them, especially when they switched off my ability to criticize them and their pure nonsense teachings.

I also used to get under someone else's influence very easily, and if someone by the way had dominating personality I had no chance with him or her. I was losing from the start. K.O.
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ex-l

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Re: Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recru

Post27 Oct 2014

Whew ... sounds like your local BK scene was no joy. It sounds like you have been through some fairly intense scenes with your mother but at least she has woken up now and the BKs are not living off her any more.

Do you have problems with the BKs still chasing her, or did you have to put them in their place too?

You said you are from Eastern Europe? Pink Panther mentioned about how the BKs exploit the prior influences of Catholicism. What proportion of the followers lived under the Communism era and do you think that makes them more susceptible to BK "state control"?

That stuff about sugar is not a bad thing even if her approach was all wrong, there is too much of it in our foods and it is hard to avoid, but has nothing to do with BKism. Quite the opposite! It sounds like they were operating their own private little kingdom dominating their guru status over anyone sucked into BKism. I suppose she wore a completely difference when the Seniors were in town ... who was your Zone-in-Charge ... Sudesh?

I am so glad I am out of the BKWSU and away from all of the crazies. It's also why I stopped editing on the Wikipedia ... I just did not want to interact with them any more. Although they wear placid, sanctimonious masks, scratch the surface and the more dominant types of BK are endlessly dishonest, twisted and conniving.

It's just not healthy to have to interact with them for a long time.

raistlin75

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Re: Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recru

Post27 Oct 2014

ex-l wrote:Whew ... sounds like your local BK scene was no joy. It sounds like you have been through some fairly intense scenes with your mother but at least she has woken up now and the BKs are not living off her any more.

Exactly. And fortunately she is not missing at all her past life. She is too busy at the moment, which makes me quite happy to see that. And making the BKs not to live off her was in this process of "recovering" the most important step to be made.
Do you have problems with the BKs still chasing her, or did you have to put them in their place too?

No, not at all, which is very suspicious to me. It happened exactly the same thing like in my own experience of quitting. The BKs just stopped contacting with my mother, when I cut them off of her money (they have no more reason and get no benefit). No money (no living off), no fun.
You said you are from Eastern Europe? Pink Panther mentioned about how the BKs exploit the prior influences of Catholicism. What proportion of the followers lived under the Communism era and do you think that makes them more susceptible to BK "state control"?

Yes. Well, basically I have no idea about exact proportions. The strict BK rules are very similar to extremely conservative Polish Roman-Catholic Church and its leadership. Many of the BK leaders were growing up in the conservative paternal Catholic families, where the women have to be obedient to men, as well as children and they were very religious and blindly following. Very often in such families also happened the acts of physical violence - the obedience of wife to husband and of children especially to their Father is important element in traditional Catholic family.

Or, on the contrary, some of the BKs (the younger generation) were growing up in some more tolerant and open families (atheists, first Buddhists, or Catholics, but not following the teachings of the Church), and they felt confused because of the infinite freedom they had, and no limits set. And later they were looking for another, this time disciplined, lifestyle in the BKWSU.

I suppose, the real BK boom in Poland started after 1989, when the activists of "Solidarity" social movement were forming the first government elected in the first free election after the fall of Communism, and Peoples Republic of Poland, changed to democratic country - the Republic of Poland.

Generally, for many Polish BKs (these who were growing up in traditional Catholic families) converting to the BKism was a natural transition as (specifically) the Polish Catholicism is mostly blind faith, disallows to free thinking, demands absolute loyalty and obedience to the Church and the teachings of the Church. Not to the Bible. The Bible is just the source. Every religious and practising Catholic must be obedient to the teachings of the Church, which in many aspects are completely contradictory not only with the Bible but with universal morality and ethics as well.

For example the Church shortened the Ten Commandments and split in two the last one, throwing out that one about not doing "idolatry".

Or another example. The greatest sin in Catholicism according to the teachings of the Church (composed of many Popes dogmas, canon laws and private opinions of some archbishops in the past) is not to kill a man but to challenge the teachings of the Church, and to openly critize them. Another one is to make a sin against the Holy Ghost.
These are one of the heavy sins. Even the paedophilia, or rape is not considered as a heavy sin, but the light one.
Challenging the Church and sinful acts against the Holy Ghost are unforgivable blasphemy and deserve to excommunication or even apostasy which is the heaviest penalty in the Catholicism - you are banished from the Church, you are an outlaw unable to receive the Holy Sacraments but even though you are still obligated to participate in every mass and to confess your sins for the rest of your life, unless you eventually decide to formally quit the Catholic Church writing an application (a statement of will with demand to be erased from the parish records) to your parish.

If someone is interested, I recommend to take a look at the light sins and heavy (unforgivable) sins in Catholicism (a part of Canon law). It is a very interesting and somehow terryfing reading, especially for those who genuinely act in moral and ethical way and don't need any religion or spiritual leader to do so.
That stuff about sugar is not a bad thing even if her approach was all wrong, there is too much of it in our foods and it is hard to avoid, but has nothing to do with BKism.

You are right. I usually use small amount of stevia instead of white sugar and try to avoid as possible to eat outside. The white sugar, and especially the corn syrup is very unhealthy but cheap and unfortunately accessible worldwide.

But I was meant the situation when you are violently forced to admit someone else's opinions and make them rules. Not being convinced to them and the same letting you the freedom of choice - take it or leave it and don't be afraid you will be punished if you refuse to do if you don't seem to like it what you hear.

We were terrorizing by her and in (hidden) panic we were often trying to hide the sweet food or sugar-bowl before she come. And I saw many times some of younger BK Sisters who were brought to tears by her and trembled, even though she never yelled at anyone, never raised her voice.

I saw how can you verbally harm someone in peaceful and sweet manner - she used to talk very calmly, almost whispering but you were terrified and unable refuse her or discuss with her. Agree with me or you will regret. In the BKWSU this was possible.
Quite the opposite! It sounds like they were operating their own private little kingdom dominating their guru status over anyone sucked into BKism. I suppose she wore a completely difference when the Seniors were in town ... who was your Zone-in-Charge ... Sudesh?

You know very well of the "double standards" in the BKWSU - no matter if you are in the UK, in Poland, Spain, etc. Of course, even the grass was "painted green" when we were expecting some Special Guest, and Mrs "Sugar Terrorist" was sitting quiet at that moment smiling or distributing awfully sweet toli (I suppose it was a real torment for her).

No, my Zone-in-Charge was Janki but national co-ordinator was BK Halina. Sudesh was Zone-in-Charge a little bit to the West. ;)
I am so glad I am out of the BKWSU and away from all of the crazies. It's also why I stopped editing on the Wikipedia ... I just did not want to interact with them any more. Although they wear placid, sanctimonious masks, scratch the surface and the more dominant types of BK are endlessly dishonest, twisted and conniving.

I stopped to edit anything in Wiki as it started to remind a "cult" and became undemocratic and far from being neutral. The Wikipedia is created by people, some of them are more influential, some of them less and those influential ones and stronger fight to expand their influence. Wiki become more and more a battlefield.

You did so much to make people aware of the BKWSU and make them to start thinking so far. It's time to think of yourself and change some priorities.

raistlin75

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Re: Feeling guilty & taking responsibility for BKs you recru

Post28 Oct 2014

Ooops... I have no idea what I was thinking of when I was writing this reply. :/

We were not terrorizing but TERRORIZED by than monstrous BK sister-in-charge many times. :/

I don't know whether the ordinary BKs were terrorizing each other or not, unless in very subtle manner as the "exams" for so-called "tolerance" and of course their families, "serving" them to make them come and meet the BK God.
But I am fairly sure about such issues of "mobbing" by the leaders or Seniors - especially of mental violence I witnessed a couple of times.

ex-l, I was thinking a lot about that question you asked me last night and I don't know the exact data about the BKs in Communism era - no one was recording that at that time, and therefore it's difficult to assess anything without a piece of information. The BKs had just begun their activity in 1981 (in Polish):

http://brahmakumaris.org/poland/BKs%20in%20Poland

(I will write a little more facts about it, in the "Polish" section of the forum later).

and, it was a state of war from 1981 to 1983 (which the BKs did not care about, I suppose):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_Poland

Even after 1990 for a long time there was a mess and nobody cared of it to count them properly, before the official national reports appeared about all religious organizations and churches in Poland.

As I said, many of the Polish BKs were Catholics (I think some of them still are, even being the BKs). Some of them were uneducated, some of them highly educated before they join.

For many women, the BK environment was also the only chance to escape from their violent, aggressive, drunken partners and husbands or other emotional problems or personal problems they had. To escape was the easiest way to get rid of their problems.

My mother was one of such persons who chose that way - to escape the problem, and deny it, instead of facing it and solving (my parents were in conflict and both had personal problems about which they never spoke to each other long before my mother joined the BKs).

Being a BK was giving you also the opportunity to improve your education, to travel abroad (or sometimes worldwide), to learn Hindi or English, to find a group of support, and to share your points of view about life and the world with thousands of people who think exactly the same as you (even though it's twisted). Unfortunately not everyone had such opportunity - it was only for the chosen ones, who the BKs thought they can be somehow useful to them, so they encouraged them to study or improve their professional qualifications.

I, personally, remember very well that in the library of my local BK centre there were a couple of handbooks for learning the basics of Hindi but the language course was never organized, even though Baba was telling us to learn Hindi to be able to read the original Murlis. If you wanted to learn it, you had to do it on your own, wait for Baba's miracle to enlight the centre-in-charge Sister or quit them, stop being ignorant and start to develop your hobbies and expand your knowledge wherever you want.

Hope, I made it a little bit more clear.

And, yes. I absolutely agree with Pink Panther's idea - the BKs borrowed from the most conservative "versions" of the Catholicism very, very much.

In Polish case, I very often had the feeling that the Polish BK leaders and the organization is like a Catholicism from the Dark Ages era (blind following, superstitioned, folk-like), based on blind faith and on the only one true interpretation of the Word of God made by the Fathers of the Church like the BKs who deny the access the public to their teachings because their claim people from the outside are not able to properly understand it, just as the Fathers of the Church consideres for many ages their followers - stupid, limited, illiterate, uneducated and blind people who don't deserve to learn how to read and write study the Bible on their own and have their own understanding they can discuss with others), except for the Hindu-like environment and figures, and some occult (mediumistic) elements.
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