Male Female relationships

for discussing science, relationships, religion or non-BK spirituality.
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joel

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Re: movies

Post29 Jul 2007

alladin wrote:Actually, I was joking with a lokik friend about the possibility to raise funds for Baba's centers through the making of blue movies, some lesbian stuff, I had in mind, with a strict pretending to be, Sister, I think she's kinky, underneath ...

So we'd replicate the whole BK environment. Morning class, everyone looking sober and celibate at the beginning ... Sounds rather sacriligious, except that I think sex is the thing that is sacred, and religion profane!!!
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ex-l

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Post29 Jul 2007

BK "Dominatrix Style" would be a lot easier and closer to the truth ... a "loving but detatched" dominant Senior Sister punishing her junior "students" under the threat of banishment from her comfort boudoir ... controlling their every thought and action ... demanding everything of them.

You would have to write in a big Bollywood-style dance, a gushing fountain and a wet sari scene to pull the audiences in. It would probably make millions in India. I am sure that India is ripe for a spoof Brahma Kumari movie ... "Carry On Up Mount Abu".
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in the night

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Post30 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:BK "Dominatrix Style" would be a lot easier and closer to the truth ...

... Surely BKs would be linning-up for the show. But since this is the "all & everything" section in the forum, I will not expand on this :(.

Let's be honest, all humans need to be loved by that special other half. Even if it's not probable or "easy", or make any excuse :shock: !!; it is in the core of our basic desire system.

Buddhist monks, Catholic clergy, BKs, and many "spiritual seekers" have given up pursuing this emotion. Why?

Answers have not been clear until today. At least for me.
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alladin

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letting the feelings flow

Post30 Jul 2007

Hi, In the night! You wrote: " all humans need to be loved by that special other half. " Just a clarifycation, if possible: You probably did not mean it this way, but you make it sound as if "taking" and "needing" are the motives and forces behind relationships. If that's the foundation, failure is guaranteed. Ideally, I think love should be giving and receiving, or "sharing", which sounds even better to me.

Personally, I quite enjoy "being in love", having that feeling emerging from the heart for other living beings :). And by this I don't mean that I am contented just with that and that I don't have the expectation to be loved back! Not because it's a deal, where I give so much to you, so you have to give as much to me, but because love IS energy and it has to flow, circulate, get enriched by the other person's qualities, and if it is "one way", like anything on earth which doesn't get oxygen, it dies.

I think that in most religions, the idea behind monks & co being celibate and not attached to anyone in particular, is that they want to "serve the world" and make their love"universal", far and broad reaching. I will write something in connection with this on the "purity" topic, where several posts converged about detachment for humans and love for God. I think that in many cases the true reason is fear of intimate relationships and inability to love, some kind of dysfunction, trauma, or shortcoming resulting in "escapism". This may merge with the alchool/drugs topic :wink:, Eureka! I see some connection between escapism, addictions and dependencies and sects+religions!! :D Always worthwhile, dedicating some time to the Forum addiction!! :lol:
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freedom

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relationships

Post30 Jul 2007

If you had a few relationships in your life, you should feel by now that maybe there is not that special one out there for each one, just because we are constantly changing, growing, seeking, moving and interacting, I believe our needs, our searches for a prefect or comfortable relationship also changes.

I've had quite a few, before Gyan and after Gyan (maybe during Gyan :shock: :oops: ) ... and we cannot deny the feeling of feeling loved and loving someone ... let's not intellectualize so much and go just with the emotions; holding hands, chatting in bed, maybe a shower together (oops, sorry, can I say that here?? ), waking up together and looking at each others' eyes, planning a trip, having a meal, and so on ... sometimes I love to be myself but most of the time it is sooooooooo good to be connected !!! :lol:

Cheers ( and love, whatever that means !!).
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joel

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Re: relationships

Post31 Jul 2007

freedom wrote:Sometimes I love to be myself but most of the time it is sooooooooo good to be connected !!! :lol:

BKWSU usually says something to the effect that "the relationship may seem good but there is a hook and you will suffer in the end. Actually that happiness is not really happiness at all."

Which anyone experiencing the deeper satisfactions of a loving relationship will immediately understand is not only off the mark but also revealing a pathology of mental illness.

Interesting that the BK's view of the "old world" might just as well be applied to the BK family: the appearance of love rather than real love, a relationship with a "hook" and suffering in the end.
alladin wrote:Personally I quite enjoy "being in love", having that feeling emerging from the heart for other living beings.

I like those intense feelings, too, which by the way are not limited to love affairs by any means. To the BKs "being in love" with Brahma and Dadis is good, but with others is bad, an artificial and tribal distinction, in my opinion, based on placing the BKWSU founders and teaching on an artificial pedestal of purity.
I think that in most religions, the idea behind monks &co being celibate and not attached to anyone in particular, is that they want to "serve the world" and make their love"universal", far and broad reaching.

In her book A History of Celibacy, Elizabeth Abbot writes that the Catholic Church adopted celibacy to prevent church assets from being inherited by the families of its priests. Of course, there were probably multiple motivations involved.
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freedom

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Post31 Jul 2007

I can not connect any relationship with BK philosophy, they taught us not to have any relationship, so, to have one now is something beyond those teachings ...

Why a relationship has to have a sad, bad or any negative ending ? It is like a kid with a piece of candy, when it ends he screams and cry for more and does not accept that it is finished, but Mom or Dad (life) says : it is finished, that's it !!!

We have this tendency of "ending" being very dramatic because we put so much energy/love/time/ and we get even angry that it did not follow through, I bet everyone who left Gyan felt the same, it was a big relationship.

Anyway, I am single now and ready for more experiences and this one is not going to end in a sour note!!
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ex-l

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Re: relationships

Post31 Jul 2007

joel wrote:Elizabeth Abbot writes that the Catholic Church adopted celibacy to prevent church assets from being inherited by the families of its priests.

Interesting ... money and property again.

It did not really work very well, did it? What with the sons of celibate Popes and Bishops being given positions of power "on the side of the family business" as soldiers, nobleman and so on.

I think there are good reasons to be celibate and I think that there are a lot more people being celibate, or rather not having sex, than one realises. The freeing up of time and resources and the freedom from someone else's stupidity/vices are just two. But with relationship to the BKWSU, I keep coming back to the first principle ... the nature of relationships at the time and in the society of thsoe that started the Yagya. I was pretty shocked to read that Lekhraj Kirpalani had married his 15 year old daughter off to a 50 year old man.

Probably off topic for this thread though ...
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tinydot

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Re: relationships

Post31 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote:I was pretty shocked to read that Lekhraj Kirpalani had married his 15 year old daughter off to a 50 year old man.

What was the reason of this marriage? Was it love or just arrangement to gain some material benefit? If this is true and if this 50 year old man had sex with this 15 year old girl, that was so sick!
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abrahma kumar

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BKWSU first principles as relates to Relationships

Post31 Jul 2007

Whenever I too ponder on relationships within the context of the BKWSU, I also keep coming back to the first principle ... the nature of relationships at the time and in the society of those that started the Yagya.

Can the impact of these influences be underestimated? Especially when, to my mind, the principle of not having sexual relationships is dogmatically insisted upon some seventy something years after?

Joel's point about the BKWSU oblox being something to the effect that "relationships may seem good but there is a hook and you will suffer in the end", is indeed the party-line but how enlightened is this view when it never takes into account the personal circumstances of each student? And even if it is true how can we suddenly one day wake-up, walk into a BKWSU centre, take the seven day course and wham we see the light anmd the error of our ways. Wow! that must be some powerful detergent that our brains get washed with.

Perhaps the BKWSU blameless and it is our own "fault" for not being able to say outright, "can i think about all this for a while and get back to you?" Or perhaps it really is the case that deeply engrained in each soul is the desire to bring an end to attempting to fulfill our own and other human being's "love needs"? Taken if for granted of course that love is a strong motivation in us forming relationships.

As for the revelation that: Mr. Lekhraj Kirpalani had married his 15 year old daughter off to a 50 year old man. Well he obviously hadn't become God's Chariot yet, had he? Or maybe he was only God Brahma at the time? Do we know how old Mr. Lekhraj Kirpalani was at the time his daughter was 15?
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alladin

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weak in purity...

Post31 Jul 2007

Maybe trying to enforce the law of celibacy on sexually liberated - so to say - Westerners, is also a test to see if a soul is "bendable", obedient, eager enough to please and accept a zombie role.

Sure, all humans at some stage regret being slaves to the senses, but usually the pain and discomfort in relationships, is not enough to make people give up the pleasure of sensual activities. And you may have noticed that as soon as a student proves to be a bit too inquisitive and rebellious, he will be accused of "having doubts" and weaknesses, "not so strong in purity", which is a major insult for a BK junior or senior, a lustful leperous-like being.

In the meantime, SS, high ranks and center-in-charges, get away with all sorts of abuses based on the other vices, anger, greed, ego ... not excluding lust and attachment, enacted behind the screen of a sari!

So, me no know, man wat's wrong wid dem people!!!!
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ex-l

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Re: BKWSU first principles as relates to Relationships

Post31 Jul 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:As for the revelation that: Mr. Lekhraj Kirpalani had married his 15 year old daughter off to a 50 year old man. Well he obviously hadn't become God's Chariot yet, had he? Or maybe he was only God Brahma at the time? Do we know how old Mr. Lekhraj Kirpalani was at the time his daughter was 15?

Usual BK get out clause ... "Ah, you see, he was the most impure soul".

He must have married her off for the sake of social status or money ... so bollocks to all his pre-gyan holiness and wisdom, he was a status seeking breadhead looking to rise in society on the basis of his daughter's honey. I am trying to pin down which one was which. Its seems to be the other daughter that was married off to the headman's son, the Mukhi, and then was taken back when she did not like it any more.

Starts to build quite a different story from the Bhakti version of his life, doesn't it? You also see the same veins running through the BKWSU as it is today, e.g. chasing VIPs and mikes, status and appearances before integrity.
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alladin

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any pussycat around?

Post01 Aug 2007

I really enjoyed reading Freedom's vivid description of moments that really are enjoyable and count in a relationship; "let's not intellectualize so much and go just with the emotions, holding hands, chatting in bed, maybe a shower together (oops, sorry, can I say that here?? ), waking up together and looking at each others' eyes, planning a trip, having a meal, and so on ... ".

Unfortunately it seems that most people have problems with emotions and find it hard to just "feel", relax, go for it and let go of intellectualizations. Yes, lying in bed, or on the sand, on the grass, on a sailboat deck rocked gently by the waves, enjoying the moment, listening to some music together or dancing to it, is much preferable to getting drowned in oceans of words.

Now, do you have any contacts for such "pussycat" men available for mammals sharing, to pass on to us?
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ex-l

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Post01 Aug 2007

Mostly ... I think women are better to keep such relationships with other women ... and use men for the obvious (like carrying heavy objects and lifting things to high places).

In most case, they are not only redundant but full of violent liabilities!
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freedom

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Post01 Aug 2007

Oh well, I seem to be different from most of women then, I'd use a step letter to reach for something or a cart to carry heavy stuff ... anyway, I believe in a nice, comfortable and honest relationship, men x woman ... :wink:.
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