Use of hallucinogens and other drugs

Was watching a show about magic on Discovery or something and it was talking about how some gurus or magicians in India would burn loads of hash during their ceremonies to change the perceptions of their onlookers, or to even cause hallucinations.

The BKWSU was started at a guru gathering. They were all meditating down in the Bhatti or listening to the guru weren’t they? Well ... who’s to say the guru wasn’t burning a bunch of grade A hallucinogens that night. Maybe there was a secret ingredient in the Chai. Maybe what really happened that infamous night wasn't what was written in Adi Dev, but something more like ...

As Dada Lekhraj sat in deep meditaion his mind started to drift. He began to focus on the Madabarhat war. "Woh, Pandavs, Woh Russia and the US. Dude I am really tripping out, I better go up stairs". Dada Lekhraj then goes up stairs to chill out in a room with less hostile walls, however his trip just continues to intensify.

Then the 2 ladies walk into the room after having some cool visuals from the gathering downstairs. "Dada Dude, your eyes are like so blood shot!” Says the first one. The second lady then says, "Oh my God, your eyes are glowing!" Dada then replies, "Dude ... I am God." "No way!" Exclaims the girls. "Way." Says Lekhraj assuringly ...

Actually, I am seriously beginning to think that story is just a myth. The version in Adi Dev that is.

"Dada Dude, your eyes are like so blood shot!” Says the first one. The second lady then says, "Oh my God, your eyes are glowing!" Dada then replies, "Dude ... I am God." "No way!" Exclaims the girls. "Way." Says Lekhraj assuringly ...

neo, I think that is a story from one of Keanu Reeves's earlier incarnations ... "Bill and Ted's Excellent Yagya".

I am with John. The Adi Dev story is pure "Jagdish and Ramesh's Bogus Journey". Shamelessly poached Hindi Bhakti ... targeted at gullible bhagats. Probably copied from some devotional movie.

The BKWSU was started at a guru gathering. They were all meditating down in the Bhatti or listening to the guru weren’t they? Well ... who’s to say the guru wasn’t burning a bunch of grade A hallucinogens that night. Maybe there was a secret ingredient in the Chai. Maybe what really happened that infamous night wasn't what was written in Adi Dev, but something more like ... As Dada Lekhraj sat in deep meditaion his mind started to drift. He began to focus on the Madabarhat war. "Woh, Pandavs, Woh Russia and the US. Dude I am really tripping out, I better go up stairs". Dada Lekhraj then goes up stairs to chill out in a room with less hostile walls, however his trip just continues to intensify.

Arjun Bhai, is there a corroborating Murli point to hand? (just kidding) very funny bro neo, but i have you know that i woz there. Thats eggsactly wot happened.

What is the likelihood that Lekhraj Kirpalani had tried cannabis once or several times in his lifetime when conducting his business to high profile individuals, the rich people, who were very likely to have pot in their possessions?

Cannabis is more common in India than tea. You would be rare to find anyone who hasn't chewed charas, drunk bhang or smoked ganja.

It doesn't have the bullsh*t 'drug' tag that the American giants put on it, in India.

Look up the connections between Hinduism and cannabis use, Bhang le desh ... the land of cannabis people. OK, it's not India anymore but pretty much same culture.

Nice try but I am afraid not ... 'Bangla' the word for Bengali, and 'Bhang' are quite different. "Bang La" which means wide plains.

I have no idea if Lekhraj Kirpalani drank bhang or smoked Charas during festivals, it was used a lot during Holi. I want to doubt it but doubt even more that we would ever find out.

As an aside, the British in India widely licensed and taxed cannabis sellers and, as early as the 1890s, were investigating its connection with causing mental illness.

The Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report (1894), comprising some seven volumes and 3,281 pages, is by far the most complete and systematic study of marijuana undertaken to date. In regard to the moral effects of the drugs, the Commission were of opinion that their moderate use produces no moral injury whatever. There is no adequate ground for believing that it injuriously affects the character of the consumer. Excessive consumption, on the other hand, both indicates and intensifies moral weakness or depravity.

Actually ex-l, there are many conflicting claims about the name Bangladesh, many claim it is bhang related but this I agree is in contention.

The article you refer to many believe was another tool in the armoury of controlling the Indian people, taxing their weed and taking away their traditions and liberties. Basically trying to Westernise them with the moral crusade.

Here are just a few random articles;

Much of Hindu belief and practice grew out of the use of Soma, a god, plant, and drink which is the focus of the Rigveda. The continued entheogenic use of drugs such as Cannabis is not uncommon among various Hindu sects. Cannabis is connected with the god Shiva, who is said to have rested in the shade of the Cannabis plant on a particularly hot day. In gratitude, Shiva gave the plant to mankind. Often the drink Bhang is drunk in Shiva's honor. It is a tea typically cooked with milk, spices, cannabis leaves, and flowers ... from Wiki Religion and drugs

In Hindu India Cannabis is believed to have been used in India as early as 1000 B.C.E. In mainstream, lay religious usage, it is usually taken as a concotion in milk called bhang and used during religious ceremonies such as marriage, as well as the Hindu celebrations of Holi. Hashish, or charas, is widely smoked by Shaivite devotees, and cannabis itself is seen as a gift of Shiva to aid in sadhana. Wandering ascetic sadhus are often seen smoking charas with a chillum. As Sikhs are absolutely prohibited by their religion from smoking, the use of ganja and charas in this form is not practised by them so they drink bhang.

In Hinduism, sadhu is a common term for an ascetic or practitioner of Yoga (yogi) who has given up pursuit of the first three Hindu goals of life: kama (pleasure), artha (wealth and power) and even dharma (duty). The sadhu is solely dedicated to achieving moksha (liberation) through meditation and contemplation of God. Still others partake in the religious consumption of charas, a form of cannabis and contemplate the cosmic nature and presence of God in the smoke patterns. Charas is the name given to hand-made hashish in India and Pakistan. It is typically grown in the Himalayas and is an important cash crop for the locals.

British psychiatrist G. Morris Carstairs spent 1951 in a large village in northern India and reported on the two highest castes, Rajput and Brahmin, and their traditional intoxicants of choice - alcohol and cannabis, respectively. The Rajputs were the warriors and governors; they consumed a potent distilled alcohol called daru. The Brahmins were the religious leaders; they were vegetarians and drank a cannabis infusion called bhang. Rajput lore, glorified sexual and military conquests. The priestly Brahmins, on the other hand, "were quite unanimous in reviling daru and all those who indulged in it. Bhang, a Brahmin told Carstairs, "gives good Bhakti." He defined Bhakti as "emptying the mind of all worldly distractions and thinking only of God." Whereas the Rajput in his drinking bout knows that he is taking a holiday from his sober concerns, the Brahmin thinks of his intoxication with bhang as a flight not from but toward a more profound contact with reality."

I'll go along with dope "emptying the mind" and alcohol all to often being the precusor to giving someone a good kicking ... it seems that is a universal experience then.

The British in the Far East were by far the biggest, most successful and arguably most immoderate drug dealers in history, short of the recent Colombian Cartels, and you probably know what they did to China using opiates from India.

I'd really like to hear from a selection of Indian what they think about dope. It is always misplaced and a misnomer when we use a terms as broad as "Indians". Buddhist and Buddhism are utterly clear about non-use. So are many Yoga schools. If you have ever seen a troup of whacked out saddhus, you would have a hard time telling me they were being "holy".

I do not buy entirely into the the Terence McKenna view of all things in the history of religion being inspired by dope. I agree many have used all sort of plants but I still think they work at lower level of psychism.

very funny bro neo, but I have you know that I woz there. Thats eggsactly wot happened.

Ah ha! We have a witness.

It is pretty funny actually, but its makes extremely good sense. What if those people really had no idea they were being drugged with hallucinogens. Then they would believe with 100% fervor that it was indeed God giving them these visions.

I do not buy entirely into the the Terence McKenna view of all things in the history of religion being inspired by dope. I agree many have used all sort of plants but I still think they work at lower level of psychism.

I don't buy into anyone's view I was just interested in showing the undeniable links between cannabis and Indian culture. Why do you think of it as lower? Consciousness is consciousness why have a prejudice?

They're all a bunch of bankers in my eyes .

Why do you think of it as lower? Consciousness is consciousness why have a prejudice?

Because one has to make accurate accessment and discriminations otherwise "everything is everything and nothing". Particularly to the West, unfortunately rational objectivism has been drowned by both subjectivism and the misplaced liberalism, which was really licentiousness not liberalism, of the 60s and early 70s.

I am sorry. If someone is honest and say they just like getting wasted or it is better than Prozac, then fine. A necessary painkiller ... then I have little objection. Unfortunately, I spent too much time working with dopeheads and casualties of that period and I can assure you that the state they were in was not "high".

I am intrigued by the tribal shamen and some of the ritual psychoactives such as Ayahuasca and Ibogane. In your situation, mr g, I would seriously consider trying them out as a way of blowing out the cobwebs for once and all. I do seriously consider trying them but still think the "real deal" happens without any external or chemical stimulation. My experience is that any external source tend to provoke an equal and opposite experience out the backend somewhere.

Its just a classically held position that the realms they open you up to and the beings within those realms are at a lower level of consiousness. (Although not necessarily lower than human). Its hard to be Jesus whilst you are wasted, throwing up or falling over.

I see that the habituate behaviour they invoke also becomes a serious handicap ... where's my papers ... i cant remember where the lighter is ... got any baccy ... and dealing with dealers. Its not great karma. Of course, I feel the equally the same about any alcoholic rituals. They make poor spectator sport. The worst part of not joining in is that you exclude yourself from being part of any Western society (... apart from the Mormons and the AA).

I remember stories from the 60 of hippies passing over LSD tabs to Lamas in Tibet who were interested to see what they did. (Play Power by OZ editor Richard Neville, 1970). But the 60s were fuelled as much by those with daddy's money as the BK are today. The limits of my personal experience is that they were irritating, "disturbing of the spirit" and involved "downers" and also unlike "yogic" altered states of consciousness, one could not switch them on and, particularly, off at will. They tend towards unconsciouness ... as attract as they can be.

As I would say I have a melancholic nature, I have always strayed away from anything stronger than one dangerous cup of caffeine a day, overeating, sleeping things out and "face the pain" instead. No more noble activities, I wholly admit. India ... I don't know. Yes, I know it was commonplace as ... well, grass. I don't know what opinion is towards it.

Hey, I agree in principle. I think au naturel is better and many of these people are just stoners. I just dislike saying it's lower, maybe it is but I don't know. You know, I walked away from a life of rock'n'roll, drugs and not enough women to become a yogi.

As for drug casulties, ex-l, a lot of my old friends are dead (stupid idiots) but people who work with drug users only ever see the fag end ... it's like saying everyone who likes a drink always soils their trousers. Most people who use drugs do so responsibly ... (honest ).

If you think I am a stoner you are wrong very wrong. In fact, I detest habitual use and all the whinning that goes with it ... I just don't think it's right to take a negative view (well, perhaps it is, we're all allowed our opinions ... except surrendered BKs ).

And ex-l I don't believe you never indulged in a spot of brown ale or the odd pint of heavy .

it's like saying everyone who likes a drink always soils their trousers.

I am just as critical about drinkers. I see just as ritualise behavior and a perversion of the characters of entire classes, whether upper class on their wines or working classes on cheap tinnies. We remember the gin mills of the industrial revolution and are perfectly aware of how the establishment quite readily plays a part in social control experiments through the use of artificial stimulants.

Some of the times I found it hard to tell whether someone was under the influence of alcohol or not as their sanskars had become so welded to what they were like when they were half-cut. Its obvious in old winos but equally so amongst other classes.

Interestingly, champagne, which I have never tried, was invented by Christian monks "to raise the spirits" and I have to accept that there are health gains from minor/medicinal use of alcohol.

Right that's it then I am taking you out for a beer ... well, actually, champagne is very good indeed ...