Does Astrology or God decide our future?

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Does Astrology or God decide our future?

Yes, astrology has some effect
6
55%
No, astrology has no effect
0
No votes
The mind is more powerful
3
27%
I don't know
2
18%
 
Total votes : 11

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asha

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Does Astrology or God decide our future?

Post06 Oct 2007

Is there any relation between Astrology and God? Can anyone tell me how Horoscope and God are related to each other?
    Do the stars decide our future?
I have been living in Gyan for 8 months. Before that i was firm believer of horoscope (~Astrology) but at this point of time, i am not feeling to believe in that. However, two or three times things said by astrologers are proved true. What should i do? Should i go for each and every single thing to see the astrologer that i was used to do before or leave the mental block that i have been created in my mind that stars decide our future?

Please provide me the pious way to think so that i can live my life happily without any doubt.

Om Shanti!!!!

jann

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Post06 Oct 2007

No!!! You Do!!
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ex-l

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Post06 Oct 2007

Its funny but before Gyan an Indian astrology told me (I am a Westerner) very clearly that I would be "instrumental in the upliftment of the Shudra castes" before I even really knew what it meant. I too have had good indications from astrologers. Obviously, there are good and bad one. Human nature is the same regardless of the job! But in my experience, without a doubt there is some truth to Astrology.

The danger is in its addictiveness. It is very easy to become addicted and dependent on astrology. It appeals to the vulnerable part of us and some astrologers will use that to manipulate clients.

I think especially, astrology is useful on a psychological level. Even great psychologists such as Jung would use astrology charts to help him with clients. But one needs to keep a balance and stand on one's own feet. Have confidence in one's own self. Not be too superstitious and become a slave to external stimulae.

It has to be said, the scientific analysis of astrology is that it is not good but I do not think this matter too much as science cannot analyze and quantify the human intuition that is involved with a good astrologer. I think that for a good astrologer, the chart is a gateway to their intuition ... like Tarot or I Ching.

The BKWSU position would be to attempt to cut you off from any other influence except from them ... BUT ... ultimately this is, in my opinion, on one hand a little hypocritical because even the Senior Sister will consult their "spirits" (Lekhraj Kirpalani/BB) for advice and they believe in "auspicious days". On the other hand it is also a little unfair because if you mess up your life ... they are not going to help you. So is it wrong to take some lokik advice? If the astrologer is sensible, and know you, they may be a good counsellor and you might develop royal sanskars by learning how and when to take advice.

Sadly, it strikes me, BapDada does not deliver on every promise he makes and many BK center-in-charges are pretty stupid really. So would I listen advice and guidance from outside the family ... yes.
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joel

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Re: Does Astrology or God decide our future?

Post07 Oct 2007

asha wrote:Is there any relation between Astrology and God? Can anyone tell me how Horoscope and God are related to each other?
    Do the stars decide our future?
I have been living in Gyan for 8 months. Before that I was firm believer of horoscope (~Astrology) but at this point of time, I am not feeling to believe in that. However, two or three times things said by astrologers are proved true. What should I do? Should I go for each and every single thing to see the astrologer that I was used to do before or leave the mental block that I have been created in my mind that stars decide our future?

Please provide me the pious way to think so that I can live my life happily without any doubt.

It has taken a couple days to think about where you are coming from. I have some experience with astrology of different kinds. I have seen incredible results from a Japanese woman who practices an esoteric Chinese astrology. Since she told me I am a very high-class soul, i.e. good constellations, I never doubt myself and just go forward with whatever I sense is the best direction. It was my interpretation. My wife and others in my life have rejoiced to see me more forward, more fully myself.

Before I was BK, pukka, following for more than ten years all BK customs and systems, and let me tell you, learning to follow someone else's customs and systems is very different to learning to trust one's own judgment.

Do you want to be a follower or master of your own life? Master means listening to your own voice, hearing the unique dialog of all the forces and voices inside yourself that create your life experiences.

As BK, we are taught, make the intellect stronger with the help of Godly knowledge and Yoga meditation. Become more loveful and balance law and love.

Actually the BKs are the souce of many pious thoughts. The Sisters can speak for an hour or longer, such uplifting words.

But who will listen to me? Are my words, my story, important enough to be heard? All the way to the depths of my own heart?

If I cannot express my deepest dreams and desires to myself, let alone to another, I can never use my own powers, which may be adequate to fulfill myself.

Learning to think the right thing, wanting to think and feel and act the right way, a peaceful Godly way, I--this is my personal experience now--I suffocated other parts of my personality, so that they were crushed like flowers in a vise.

I am beginning to learn to better listen to my own voices.

The BKWSU would teach us to listen to the voice of God. And in the BKs, we learned to hear the voice of God by listening to Murli read by the Sisters in the morning, and then by meeting Avyakt BapDada face-to-face. That was my life, to always have Baba's words in my ears, to have him as a friend and teacher and parent and so on.

"Why does my voice sound so weak?" I wondered as the years went by. "Why don't I have a stronger personality? Why do I have dreams where someone seems to be endangering me, yet I cannot speak out, cannot tell them 'Stop! You're frightening me! I don't like that!'

I left the BKs after several years of self questioning. Today, when I speak, I hear the sound of my voice resonating in my throat. With my own voide, with my breath as I let the weight of my ribs sagging under gravity help to empty my lungs, I can comfort myself, even while saying no to someone, while risking their ill-will. I can choose to feel my continuity: that I will still be here, with or without his approval.

There is a direct way of feeling onself through one's own body weight, through one's own bones. They way we say 'I feel it in my bones.' It is something deep. Or 'I feel it in my gut.' Actually the gut has its own nerve bundles that make their own independent estimations of how to regulate activity there. The brain and the Brahma Kumaris would like to control everything, some of our functioning is better left to our unconscious.

I believe we need to let the doors to our unconscious mind open, so that all the power within can begin to flow out. Love, humanity, warmth I believe peopel (myself certainly) have ways of walling off inside as a protection against risks, to be able to live while feeling hurt inside. All life has hurts, some which are more than it is possible to bear, yet we bear them!

Removing the walls that prevent me from, for example, bursting into song, or dancing with joy at odd times--it is a work of developing one's inner trust, facing and healing inner wounds.

No 'ism' believer such as a Brahma Kumari can help with this process, because in the case that it is 'ism' against individual, the Brahma Kumari will always tell you what their Baba says you should do. This practice, as I say, ended up suppressing my inner voices, which had been wanting and needing much that lay outside what the BKs approve of, yet are central components of a healthy life.

For example, to be detached from family. Why would we not touch and cuddle each other, as even cows, dogs and cats know to do? God gave us the love of our families that brought us to this point. Why should we believe in renouncing that love?

I don't know, but the Brahma Kumaris can speak very well about the dangers and harms of attachment. It is pious talk. It harms when it turns a mother away from her boy or girl who absolutely needs cuddly affection, touch and reassurance, and needs the security of a loving available parent.

One the other hand, some people feel they are made their lives beautfiul through the BKs. It is a personal decision, therefore impossible to answer in abstract. It was good for me then, for helping me to find the woman who is now my wife. The time for me to follow their words blindly (while thinking my eyes were open!) is past. Good luck with finding freedom from doubt. Doubt is good if it teaches when to move slowly. Doubt has no doubt saved your life many times. Just to live happily, or do you want a creative life, too?
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abrahma kumar

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Post07 Oct 2007

Thank you joel.
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bro neo

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Post07 Oct 2007

I think Nature is one of our biggest sources on information about “What’s it all about?”. To look at animals, the wild, plants and the temperaments of the planet we can be really given a new perspective on human culture and interactions.

I used to love astrology, but my understanding is that it was create in a time where all Astrological data was not available. This in turn makes it much less of a science and more of a intuitive job using a system of how one system acts-interacts with another system. An outdata system.

I think Astrology, God, Fung Shui, Exercise, etc all are key factors in influencing our life, but that they don’t dominate us. The Stars probably have more value in predicting world events. The primary influences on what our tomorrow will be are what circumstances we find our selves in today and where our will power be used. Even in death I saw I had a to choose to live or die.

I sometimes get down, thinking I made the wrong desicion, with all the chaos I have been through sense then, but it was my decision to come back to life and it has been a very powerful and empowering force in my life as well.
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button slammer

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Re: Does Astrology or God decide our future?

Post08 Oct 2007

asha wrote:Is there any relation between Astrology and God? Can anyone tell me how Horoscope and God are related to each other?
    Do the stars decide our future?
I have been living in Gyan for 8 months. Before that I was firm believer of horoscope (~Astrology) but at this point of time, I am not feeling to believe in that. However, two or three times things said by astrologers are proved true. What should I do? Should I go for each and every single thing to see the astrologer that I was used to do before or leave the mental block that I have been created in my mind that stars decide our future?

Please provide me the pious way to think so that I can live my life happily without any doubt!

By studying astrology you yourself will become a perfect astrologer. You will learn on a deep level how sanskars work. Astrology is a way of percieving the subtle machinery of the soul.

I say 'God' is also an astrologer. No need to pay for a consultant. Save the money and study for yourself. Best not to tell the other 'so called pukka BKs' though, as they will only deflate your enthusiasm. Enjoy astrology for as long as you wish, it will definitely add to your life in many ways. Good luck, and best wishes :).
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button slammer

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Re: Does Astrology or God decide our future?

Post08 Oct 2007

asha wrote:Please provide me the pious way to think so that I can live my life happily without any doubt.

Hi again Asha, here's a song about love and astrology, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne1EOVrdNxA
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ex-l

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Re: Does Astrology or God decide our future?

Post08 Oct 2007

button slammer wrote:Hi again Asha, here's a song about love and astrology, enjoy

Enjoy? Astrology ... really? It looks more like 'Destruction pornography' to me!
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paulkershaw

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Post08 Oct 2007

Hey Asha,

there's perhaps a deep reason within you why you're being 'pulled' to go to an astrologer.

I'd say if there's a pull in the heart to doing something you should definitely do it. Honour your heart in a fair and balanced way and then you will know the difference and be able to accept what you want out of it and let the rest go . Then there will be no more question for you ... remember though that no-one else has the right to tell YOU what to believe in or to Do, so listen to what your heart is telling you and respond accordingly ...

I've done some 'readings' for BKs in the past (centres in charge) and if they can do it, so can you! ...
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ex-l

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Post08 Oct 2007

paulkershaw wrote:I'd say if there's a pull in the heart to doing something you should definitely do it. Honour your heart in a fair and balanced way and then you will know the difference and be able to accept what you want out of it and let the rest go .

I think paulkershaw gives you some very deep advice here, asha.

More than anything ... in or out of Gyan ... we have to come to know and trust our intuitions, our hearts pull, our own inner silent language. We need to be able to discriminate between our intuitions and inhibitions.

I separate 'God' and 'the self' from 'the organization'. Your relationships with God is your own and need to be developed. It does not belong to the BKWSU. 'The organization' is human ... it consists of human gurus with human needs and failings. Ulimately, it is you, not the BKWSU, that lives with and faces the consequences of your actions. Live and learn.

I am sorry to say that the organization and the people that profit from running it are not always thinking of your interests and are not guaranteed to enlightened or divine.

God works in mysterious ways. Just becareful that you do not develop dependencies or negative attachments and that ultimately you are grounded and standing on your own two feet.

Shrimat does not provide instructions for every situation ... if you wanted to learn to drive a car, you would not read the Murlis to do so. Likewise all the rest of life's complex issues.
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sparkal

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Post08 Oct 2007

I would be wary about "believing" in anything. I would also separate God from astrology.

I am a bit shaky here as Mercury is about to go retrograde, or appear to stop, which means comunication of all sorts could be thrown into chaos or become unpredictable at least. I expect that to be the climate for the next couple of weeks, on the basis of information from a common, popular astrologer. It is not necessarily BAD. Indeed, deals done under such circumstances are re-negotiable later, and it may be that the underdogs will fair best with this one.

I would be silly to look to astrology to tell me exactly what is going to go one way or other in a detailed manner. Too far, too intense. Lack of faith in what we are doing? Fear the outcome of our current situation? I tend to look for the general climate therefore, the main influences at that moment. Getting a full chart done may tell us about our traits and tendencies, but a chart won't change our traits.

When asked for the time of Destruction BapDada said, "ask an astrologer". Probably because a worthwhile astrologer may tell you that Destruction has been, or, the worst of it may be past.

The planets, in my opinion, don't so much influence us as tell us the time. A metronome which ticks to the drama. A drama in the sky, mirroring the one on the world stage. It was only royalty who could get a chart done and consult an astrologer in days gone by. I don't suppose God has a sign. God may be/ have all signs present, and none. They relate to the world stage therefore. When wee go beyond the drama, we go beyond the world stage and our bodily traits, of this life, and all others. An astrologer not likely to chart this.

Understand that the drama is only ever taking us to a preferable conclusion, no matter how things seem, is not it?

peace
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button slammer

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the fortune maker

Post27 Oct 2007

VCD* No.746, Cassette No.1232, dated 30.08.07, at Hyderabad
Clarification of Murli dated 26.12.67

... all the stars that exist in the sky are shown as memorials. Some two-three stars live with each other continuously. Although they may move howevermuch far away from the Pole star, but they live together and some stars are such that they keep revolving around the Pole star in proximity. So, there are different kinds of actors. It cannot be said – We are not responsible for whatever has been written in our fate by the fortunemaker (Bhagyavidhata), the fortunemaker is responsible. Who is responsible? Who is responsible for making the high fortune, the fortune of happiness, and the fate of sorrows? Every soul. Just as it has been written in Gita – a soul is its own enemy and a soul is its own friend. Anyone else cannot be [it’s] friend and foe. Even God Father, the highest on high Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiv is neither anybody’s friend nor anybody’s foe. :)

asha

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thanks to all

Post04 Nov 2007

Thank you very much for all for paying attention on the question and providing me strong beliefs according to the thoughts. I really appreciate for that.

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