Celibacy - is it necessary for spirituality?

The celibacy thing is common within religious thinking, it is to do with the guilt of carnal pleasure.

the celibacy thing is common within religious thinking,

In religious concept it is human arrogance and challenge to human nature. A sort of perversity.

But celibacy in BKism has nothing to do with religious thinking. It is the powerful chain to keep the capital = the girls and boys under control.

Exactly!!! So ban the sex ban!!!!

To be honest arjun, and I speak from my and others experience here, it is actually quite easy to not have sex - even when it is free offered "on the menu" (as we say) - if you do not love or fancy the other person.

I agree that there could be thousands or lakhs of people in the world who may be naturally celibate. Despite not being a follower of BKWSU or for that matter any religion these people may not have an urge for sex/lust. Many of these non-BKs might be thinking of lust to a lesser extent than many BKs/PBKs. But in case of BKs/PBKs, I feel that most of them were either enjoying physical pleasure before coming to Gyan and have given up the same either to become a deity (lured by the inheritance of heaven) or because of the fear of dharmaraj. Those BKs/PBKs who are celibate/pure by nature might be in minority.

If this condition of celibacy/purity is removed from the rules for BKs/PBKs most of the married BKs/PBKs would start indulging in lust or the unmarried BKs/PBKs would get married to taste it. It is in this context that I said that "Only a courageous few are able to remain chaste/pure even after getting married."

But in case of BKs/PBKs, I feel that most of them were either enjoying physical pleasure before coming to Gyan and have given up the same either to become a deity (lured by the inheritance of heaven) or because of the fear of dharmaraj.

Could this also apply to Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani), after all he has a family before coming into Gyan ?

Celibacy has to be a choice, not a demand. Although they make you believe it was your own choice, like you said Arjun, dharmaraj is watching you ... so you don't have a choice anymore.

Manipulation!! "If you don't stay pure then ...", and how many times is it said in the Murli??? Over and over and over again. Repetition!!!! A good form of mind control!!! And keep telling your followers how disgusting they are, they are going to believe that to!!

There suit be a law against, to manipulate people like that! It is so easy to do, and followers are damaged for years, or the rest of their live even.

Could this also apply to Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani), after all he has a family before coming into Gyan ?

May be, but I don't know since I was not his contemporary.

Celibacy has to be a choice, not a demand. Although they make you believe it was your own choice, like you said Arjun,
dharmaraj is watching you ... so you don't have a choice anymore.

Personally speaking, I don't approve of using a fear factor to make someone pure. I agree with you that celibacy should be a choice. Even if someone wants to adopt it in a married life, they should understand the pros and cons of the same and do it voluntarily rather than by force.

Omshanti. A piece of news published on Page20 of Times of India newspaper dated 11.10.08 that may bring cheers to BKs/PBKs:

Secret of Longevity Lies In Celibacy: 105-Yr-Old Virgin

A woman, who's celebrating her 105th birthday, has said that celibacy and staying single is the key to her long life. Chaste Clara Meadmore revealed that sex in her era meant getting married and, at the age of 12, she made up her mind that she would remain single and would lead a celibate life. "I've just never been interested in or fancied having sex. I imagine there's a lot of hassle involved," The Sun quoted Clara as saying. "I've never had a boyfriend and never been bothered about relationships. When I was a girl you only had sex with your husband - and I never wed," she added. Clara mowed her garden till the age of 97.

She should get together with this old guy from Rajasthan ... what with modern science, there is still time yet!

This is not to my taste but it just goes to prove that nothing proves anything ... or at least "one swallow does not a summer make". I don't recall the old woman appear on the list of spiritually inspired leaders. Being English, she was probably born before they invented orgasms. Who would you say looks better off? I can bet you which one worked the harder.

Old-Folk.jpg (14.76 KiB) Viewed 17332 times

Father, 90, shows off new baby - and wants more

The world’s oldest new dad has fathered his 21st child at the age of 90 and he says that he plans to continue breeding for at least another decade. Nanu Ram Jogi with his latest child Girija Rajkumari attributes his long life and productivity to eating lots of meat. Nanu, a farmer in the Indian state of Rajasthan, cannot remember exactly how many children he has produced with his four wives, but estimates that he has twelve sons, nine daughters and at least twenty grandchildren.

“Women love me,” he boasted as dozens of relatives came to see his 14-day-old daughter, Girija Rajkumari. “I want to have more children. I can survive another few decades and want to have children till I am 100. Then maybe it will be time to stop.” Mr Jogi married his first wife, Lalki, in 1942 when he was 25, the world was at war and India was still five years away from gaining independence from Britain. He fathered his eldest daughter, Sita Devi, a year later.

He married his second wife, Punni, when he was 50 and his third marriage, to Rukman, came 20 years later in 1987. He married his current wife, Saburi, in 1997 when he was 80 and India’s economic boom was beginning to get under way. Saburi, who is 50 and has given him seven children, was previously married to his eldest son, Shiv Lal, who died ten years ago.

So what is Mr Jogi’s secret? “I eat all kinds of meat: rabbits, lamb, chicken and wild animals,” he said. “There is a dense forest around the village. I go hunting most days and eat whatever I catch. Lots of food is my secret to staying healthy. I will survive another few decades to take care of these kids!”

The world’s oldest known Father was an Australian called Les Colley, who was 92 when his ninth child was born. He died in 1998, just before his 100th birthday.

Could this also apply to Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani), after all he has a family before coming into Gyan ?

Also, could someone confirm IF:

1. Lekhraj Kirpalani was a [heavy] meat eater up to age 50?
2. He indulged in sex up to age 50?

Perhaps, someone can ask his family members. I have nothing against his behaviour IF this is the case before his Gyan years. If he was indeed a good Vaishnav follower, as BKs would assert, where is the documentation for this?

I heard he was ******** way later than that.

Will you be more specific ?

We are all his children!!!

Does anybody know what's the general attitude of the Sindhi community towards meat eating in general, and particularly 50/100 yrs ago?

Does anybody know what's the general attitude of the Sindhi community towards meat eating in general, and particularly 50/100 yrs ago?

The question is too broad, you would have to take it down to their particular community. Sindhis were not particularly vegetarian; fish, mutton, goat are all part on the menu. With the Kripalanis one question exists, Jasoda is thought to be a follower of Shri Vallabhacharya and Pushtimarg. This is not stated clearly but the place of the family's pilgrimage, some of their practises etc points to this. "Bhog" for example, (offering pure vegetarian food that does not contain any meat or such vegetables as onion, garlic etc) comes from Pushtimarg.

Given how diametrically fake the story has proven so far ... anything is possible.

Celebrating Celibacy