The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

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spiritual spy

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The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

Post23 Mar 2009

Hi all

As you know I am still visiting the local BK center to know what is going on. Two day before I met a BK - he is a manager in a tech firm (my god). He was brainwashed so much he devoted his wife and two gals to the BKs and they maintain purity. He doesn't even touch her (he calls her wife - behan/Sister) ... :sad:. He says the Satyug is going to come and the earth will have only spring season in Satyug. No summer no hot days in India.

Well, I explained that the 4 seasons are due to the elliptical orbit of the earth so it cannot change. He started telling that the orbit will become a circular one so that the spring always continue. Whenever I corner him in his argument using science and history ... his answer is simple one, "What ever Baba tells is correct no need to doubt him". And he receives the lights when he does the open eyed (?) meditation.

I think these people are hyptonised or self-hyptonised and they think that is the Godly state. And most of the BK newcomers are newcomers to sprituality also, as they didnt experience any other meditation method at all they think this is the only and the most superior method to meditate. I feel something big should happen to expose these BK system. Let the god himself release this kind of souls from the madness.

Almost all the religion and spiritual systems agree that god is omnipresent .. of course, except our BK system. I feel there is an ever penetrating power which is the main background for the karma system of cause and effect - this itself is the proof for the omnipresence of god.

Well, our BKs tells with their pictures (of a man killing a weaker man and raping a woman ...) that if god is everywhere, why he is not stoping this? Sounds very childish.

At this point of time, after experiencing all this, what is your position to the omnipresence theory??

This question is mainly to ex-l, deccani and other ex-bks.

Pt

Terry

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Re: Theosophy

Post23 Mar 2009

You should understand the BK point of view regarding omnipresence by now. It sounds as if you are trying to pick up points for winning an argument. You say you are a "questioning BK" but you sound like you have not been a BK very long. Is that right?
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spiritual spy

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Re: Theosophy

Post23 Mar 2009

terry wrote:You should understand the BK point of view regarding omnipresence by now.

What does this mean do the BKs say that god is omnipresent? Well, that not what they teach.

Terry, what is the proof god is not everywhere?

This is a forum not an argument and no BK is ready for even a discussion, argument is far away ... Reading and knowing other systems is "Evil knowledge for them". That is what the Brahma Baba says.

Well, if you are not strong enough to even hear what others say ... that reflects the state of mind.

PT

Terry

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Re: Theosophy

Post23 Mar 2009

Sorry if you have misunderstood my tone.

We all know BK Gyan says, "God is not omnipresent". According to his own revelation, He is Father of all. But how can a Father also be the child, therefore he is not omnipresent. He is not even a he, although he is also a she, as the Mother of all, but really is neither. But he enters a she with a him and becomes they. And if they enter, they must not already be there, so therefore not omnipresent.

How can you argue with that?
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spiritual spy

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Re: Theosophy

Post23 Mar 2009

Dear Terry

When you are giving a proof, you should make it from outside your system. You talk about .. the He or it (god) through him besides her etc. You are taking water in a bottomless and topless bucket with no handle. Mr. Lekraj may be a medium - not the medium of the almighty. If so what is the proof?

We question the very basic but you use that questioned basics for your proof. If you take the he +he+she = THE ONLY HE. Then first prove he + he. And he+she. Then come to the point he+he+she.

Oh my god. Hee ... heeeee ... heeeeee ...

PT
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rayoflight

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Re: Theosophy

Post23 Mar 2009

terry wrote:And if they enter, they must not already be there, so therefore not omnipresent.

This is the point I made in another thread. To the BK religion, it is impossible for God to be omnipresent, because "God" has descended in Madhuban and this is where we go to find Him. Baba is their God and they have managed to convince many, including Westerners, that Baba is the God. With hypnosis involved, our mental faculties have been numbed and dumbed down to actually give this idea credence. We may have suffered from lack of spiritual education and this is why we were ready to believe this ideology.

The BK story, as far as I understand, is as follows. Please correct or add:

    1. An ambitous disembodied entity finds a victim to channel his desires.
    2. The victim becomes psychologically weakened and begins to act on the entity's directives.
    3. Once the entity's organism begins to attract followers and takes shape, the ambition continues to grow.
    4. The entity has created a group organism that multiplies by the likes of the "mouth born" followers (like cancer cells that spread the disease).
    5. The ambition to infiltrate the West by means of "positive thinking" attracts Westerners like flies. Spiritual famine is quenched.
    6. The paradigm of the Indian mind as well as the spiritually innocent Western mind buys into the dogma. The lack of knowledge on spirit possession keeps many in the dark.
    7. The ambition of the entity continues to contaminate many into developing delusions of grandeur. In order to keep the organism thriving, the followers must accumulate material goods.
    8. The entity succeeds to create a thriving business by means of playing on the vulnerabilities of potential followers/victims.
    7. The dangerous effects begin to manifest in the form of psychological and emotional control leading to mental breakdowns and suicide, financial abuse, and the inability to function normally in society due to the distortion of reality.
    8. While some continue to wait for the predictions to come true, others realize it's hogwash.
    9. Ex-BKs come forward.
    10. ?? (the fall of the empire?)
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ex-l

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Re: The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

Post23 Mar 2009

Quick answer; the two schools of thought are talking about two entirely different things. Yes, the Brahma Kumaris are being, and appeal to, the naive and simple.

I see the god of the BKs more on the lines of an Asura, Deva or 'Ishta-deva' ... a power-seeking spirit or demi-god. "A god" rather than "The God". In fact, I would probably take little offence to them if they downgraded their god claims in such a manner.

As to "the omnipresence", it could simply be the next level of physical universe, being debated by scientists and Advaitists a like, or it could be something else. I have no insight into.

In fact, my position on both would be, "realise the limits of your influence and work within them to your best capacity". If it has no practical purpose to you, and you cannot demonstrate any obvious effect, discard it for just now. Its not relevant to you at this moment.
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rayoflight

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Re: The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

Post23 Mar 2009

ex-l wrote:I see the god of the BKs more on the lines of an Asura, Deva or 'Ishta-deva' ... a power-seeking spirit or demi-god. "A god" rather than "The God". In fact, I would probably take little offence to them if they downgraded their god claims in such a manner.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you. A little humility would do them good.
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frisbee

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Re: The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

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rayoflight

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Re: The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

Post23 Mar 2009

This definition brings mythology to life and what I once thought only existed in philosophy books. Perhaps the ancient Greeks had actual contact and experience with the spirit world, and explained it through the usage of gods and demons.

I feel I have had the *pleasure* of knowing one of these creatures of the spirit world firsthand (and how many others have we unknowingly encountered?).

I found more interesting information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

Terry

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Re: Theosophy

Post24 Mar 2009

spritual spy wrote:If you take the he +he+she = THE ONLY HE. Then first prove he + he. And he+she. Then come to the point he+he+she. Oh my god. Hee ... heeeee ... heeeeee ...

I see you finally got the joke!
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spiritual spy

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Re: The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

Post24 Mar 2009

Terry

You are giving an evasive answer? Come to the point. What kind of external proof that you have that the he+he+she is god? External proof means you should not say that, 'Baba told that he is Shiva' ... things like that. The reference shall be from a external (other than BK) source.

Terry are u a BK supporter?? I want to know.

PT
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ex-l

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Re: The "Is God Omnipresence?" question

Post24 Mar 2009

Terry is going to rebuff your question because he is not a BK. If you want to debate BKs, you will have to go to a different forum like, Brahmakumaris.ning.com. It can be fun but you are unlikely to convert anyone.

But ... there is another question to ask terry and that is to square what he thinks of the 'BKWSU God' concept and his own current concept of 'God'. which may well be closer to the "omnipresent" conception. Ditto, as I asked elsewhere, what his own experiences before, during and after Gyan of "God" are or were. Unfortunately, we cannot combine multiple threads together. I cannot answer for him and I do not know. I was most interested to discover that for the first 18 years or so, the Brahma-kumaris did believe in an omnipresent god or the Brahm.

This talk of "proofs" is very Hindu BK, or even PBK etc. I think most of us here will accept you can basically logically or objectively "prove" nothing in the field of metaphysics. "Proofs" debates are pretty pointless outside of the kindergarten approach that works for the BKWSU in India.

Where do you actually stand as far as the BKWSU goes? ex-BK, ex-PBK ... what is your experience, spiritual spy?

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