Psycho-active and recreational drug use

for discussing science, relationships, religion or non-BK spirituality.
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lisaniel

Re: Psycho-active and recreational drug use

Post25 Jun 2010

Thanks for this sensational topic !!!!
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Mr Green

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Re: Psycho-active and recreational drug use

Post25 Jun 2010

skin up!
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ex-l

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1Qqqq

Post26 Jun 2010

What proportion of Western BKs have a background in recreational drug use and has this changed over time?

I am not applying any moralist or legalist values to drug use. For me, they are pretty all the same; dope, alcohol, cigarettes ... even coffee etc (by which I mean addictive stuff that big business and the Establishment or State have always made lots of money, built empires and demanded additional taxes from).

What I am wondering about is the correlation between enjoying being spaced out by dope to becoming hooked on being spaced out by the Brahma Kumaris practise ... and any damage thereof.

If there is one "universal truth" that unites all peoples, cultures and times, it is that humanity has always enjoyed acting like a bunch of drunken or doped up monkeys. In fact, even monkeys do to. This video is amazingly insightful ... the percentage of teetotal monkeys is the same as teetotal humans.

I think Marx was more insightful than he realised when he said. "Religion is the opiate of the people". I think that whatever Brahma Kumarism might be, the practise seems to set off chemical reactions in the brain which then hook addictive personality types in. You would then have to divide adherents in two ... those who had a thing for being spaced out (for whatever reason good or bad) and those who would have done had they not been afraid to or culturally inhibited. For them the trance-like hypnotic state of meditation becomes their drug and the illusion that the religion provides, their shield against reality.


Marx wrote:Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. ... Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world.

The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion ... Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions.
Last edited by ex-l on 26 Jun 2010, edited 1 time in total.
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starchild

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Re: Psycho-active and recreational drug use

Post26 Jun 2010

Is it the assumption in these discussions, that the desire for an altered consciousness (whether through drugs, chemicals, hypnosis or the opium of the people) is inherently wrong?

It seems to me to be deep aspect of humankind in every society to explore the spiritual aspect of their being.

Naming certain substances which people wish to use; as bad or unhealthy; is just another way of imposing imprisonment on peoples choices, that imposition that Marx detested so much in Religions.

The monkeys are very funny and entertaining.
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ex-l

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Re: Psycho-active and recreational drug use

Post27 Jun 2010

starchild wrote:Is it the assumption in these discussions, that the desire for an altered consciousness (whether through drugs, chemicals, hypnosis or the opium of the people) is inherently wrong?

No, to be honest. Just a statement of fact. Human beings are largely still drunken monkeys, drunk or addicted to one chemical stimulant or another. Given all the births and deaths involved, one is left wondering who is driving human evolution, ourselves or the alcoholic yeasts. Power is also a pretty potent intoxicant ...

I am way out of date on the current state of research on these issues but I decry that gee-whizz type research done by active proponents of external chemical stimulants such as the schools of Timothy Leary and Terence McKenna.

The questions that arises for me is how much of so-called entirely "spiritual" experiences are also just chemical experiences, e.g. yogas, zen-like austerities, hypnoses triggering off abnormal chemical reactions within the brain? How much of the experiences one has practicising Brahma Kumarism are, in fact, chemical or drug induced (by which I mean internally produced drugs not externally taken ones)?

The scientific-skeptical seems to consider that it is ALL chemical because there is not such thing as "spirit". The pro-intoxicants seem to consider that MOST, or even all, religious experiences are rooted in drug taking (herbs, roots etc) and they downplay any possible "psychic" or spiritualistic elements to their habits, especially any possibly negative "psychic" or spiritualistic elements to their habits.

There is a Tibetan saying regarding spiritualism that goes, "just because someone is dead, does not mean they are enlightened". To that we might add, "just because a state of mind is altered, does not mean it is good or enlightened either".

Thank you regarding the drunken monkey video, this was the one I was originally looking for ...

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Mr Green

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Re: Psycho-active and recreational drug use

Post28 Jun 2010

the truth is ex-l that no-one knows to what extent consciousness is a chemical reaction, some scientists believe that's all it is, whereas spiritual types believe there is a non physical energy or life form that interacts with the chemical or physical body.

This is where the spiritualists get all shirty because they believe too much interaction with the physical as something dirty, they feel it is somehow a lower thing than what they claim to experience in attempting to transcend the physical.

I don't see anyone as superior in these matters, stuck up anal purist types or grubby gee whiz hippies, all the same in my book no better or worse, just on their path.

good luck to all
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