The Absolute Truth

So with mental slave traders ...This is what I rankle at your repeating of the BKWSU's line ... "no one asks you to join, you can leave at any moment" ... is that I do not believe it is as simple as straightfoward as that. That is part of the myth. All of these key words llike God, Truth, Absolute Truth pull at strings within individuals that many are largely unaware of and beyond their conscious control. All one needs a trick or two ... like a bottle on a string with some fruit in it * ... and you can capture, hold, life off and trade your slaves for the rest of your or their life.

I do know what you mean. You are describing how 'truth" is used to trap people into a belief system. i am not writing about that part of the timeline, but (partly linking back to "who are you writing for") in this case the ex-BK part of our experiences.

Working to your metaphor, I am writing about how the trap is really self delusion, that's what holds us even when we are ready to move on. WE choose to hold or let go of the bait. The monkey thinks they are the only nuts because they're the ones it sees, and is conscious of. A bit like "truth" - it serves our consciousness/needs/desires/ego at that time, so it is true, and so we cannot let it go even as we know it hurts. We place a higher value on "truth" than we do on our own well being or happiness.

The way to personal freedom is to know that there is choice. Either keep holding tight onto your nuts and be impotent, or let go and find life has other "kernels of truth" to grasp.

Well, obviously, just because something "serves our consciousness/needs/desires/ego" does not make it is "true". Surely there would be a better word? Gratifying ... addictive ... sympathetic?

And still we have a problem because, as you say yourself, many BK followers admit they do not really think The Knowledge is True, e.g. 5,000 years cycle and so on. So the hook seems to go in at a deeper, or less conscious ... perhaps even primal or primitive ... part of the mind. One where we are not entirely responsible.

Working to your metaphor, I am writing about how the trap is really self delusion, that's what holds us even when we are ready to move on. WE choose to hold or let go of the bait.

I agree that there is good "therapeutic" value to that statement or concept, e.g. to put it simply, sitting whingeing or blaming others is not going to help one much ... but I am still not convinced that 'objectively' it is entirely true.

For me, to accept that as objectively true and universal would to be presume all individuals are in a state of total responsibility at all times. Obviously, that is not true. So the question arises, at what point, generally and specifically, does the individual become largely or totally responsible, e.g. surely we cannot apply such a rule to children or mentally handicapped etc. So, that rule only applies to certain individuals.

Logically, it also excludes any possibility of some individuals being able to actively delude others ... which I think phenomena from hypnosis to the power of advertising clearly proves can and does happen. How much of us individual and how many of humanity are on autopilot.

Earlier, you replied to a similar thread fallaciously suggesting that any such ability is disapproved because the Brahma Kumaris cannot "bewitch" (or whatever the word was) "all of the people, all of the time". Well, it is not necessary to to delude "all of the people, all of the time" ... "some of the people, all of the time" and "some of the people, for some of the time" is still quite a tidy profit margin. And this is what they, and their likes (for surely they are not truly leading us to enlightenment), work on. The next questions would be "who, when, under what circumstances etc".

So when does it become "self-delusion"? I would say, not even at the time it arises in our conscious mind or is point out to us ... it appears to take years (or special Eureka circumstances) to work its way through. To encourage that on or quicken the process might be the assisted by a therapist ... but who knows where they are at or where they lead us to. They too appear to have their own cult-ure and market place designed to appeal and service such certain individuals.

Anyway, I am interested to see where new knowledge was going to lead us as regards "Absolute Truth".

Terry,

you would seem to have everything worked out. It seems to me that you are picking bits and pieces from different schools of thought and putting them in to fit your argument (Einstein, Jung). Although I believe that these concepts (collective consciousness etc) have value in explaining how the group meditation intensifies and influences the individual experience, I think it needs to be seriously examined. However, I must admit I have only skimmed through your posts. I intend to look in more depth as soon as I have time.

The truth, as it is related to the BKs teachings, is I think rather complex. I cannot deny my experiences during meditation. Also many of the teachings are universal and pretty obvious. At this stage I hope that I the 5000 year cycle is not true, or that at least there is an alternative model. I do not want to repeat this life ad infinitum. Not only because according to that philosophy I have failed but because, outside of the whole BK time, I have had very difficult trauma to deal with in my life. Perhaps at some point I will see a bigger picture, but for the moment repeating eternally does seem like an unwelcome nightmare. As for being a servant or cremator ... NO THANKS.

It just does not pan out. Or else we are all caught up in a most unfair whirl forever. God forbid. I mean, when I questioned the unfairness of so many good people not experiencing heaven, I was told that they all experience their own Golden Age. Now I do not have the statistics but it seems to me that with the multiplication in population during the last century and the percentage of people living in extreme poverty and misery that the figures just do not add up.

I always had difficulty with everything, every single little thing going back to the place it had been but I never thought of the stuff in space. Hmmm. Yes, it would need a very big bang.

Welcome to the forum Starchild

Terry you would seem to have everything worked out.

No, just myself and my experiences. I state my positions from there, what has worked for me. I am not a BK supporter as the tag may suggest. To me, there seems to be confusion on this forum about which PART of the BK experience is true or partly true, or whatever.

Are they hypocrites and/or corrupt because they have "the truth" but don't live up to it?
Are they fraudsters who know they do not have the truth but peddle it as such?
Or are they as deluded as any other "structured" faith", believing as best they can but leaving havoc in their wake?

More questions can be asked in various ways.

For me, there is no longer any cosmic nut, or absolute truth to grasp. Some ex-BKs still hope for there to be a sweet nut in some jar somewhere, and are still "trapped" by living reactively to the BK thing. Barely have they let go of the nuts and removed their hand, when they start to reminisce how they held that sweet food, how good it was to smell the milk and honey. And then they start to look around to see if there's some other jar on offer - another belief system that's similar but "truer" - to put their hand into and maybe this time get to eat.

Or they are so disappointed that even the naturally growing fruits on trees are avoided, in case some trapper is there! It may not be "Gyan" but these ways of thinking still lack independence of being, of not getting on with the ordinary blessings of life; productive work, good food, leisure time with loved ones, pursuing interests & realising one's own potential ...

For chrissake, if it hurts or causes distress or regret - MOVE. Don't sit around fumbling for another jar, hoping for the best. We have a saying here in Oz, "like a dog returning to its own vomit" - crude but descriptive.

You may remember that 80's bumper sticker - "Invert the dominant paradigm". That's gonna happen anyway, change is the single certainty of life. Don't grab harder [beat box now] ...

So flow, let go, explore
Beyond where you went before
Walk on through another door.

If years of disciplined "soul-consciousness" and active "head-centred" living did not bring joy, why would it do so in an undisciplined, reactive form?

For chrissake, if it hurts or causes distress or regret - MOVE. Don't sit around fumbling for another jar, hoping for the best. We have a saying here in Oz, "like a dog returning to its own vomit" - crude but descriptive.

Or put more elegantly,

If you always do,
what you have always done;
You will always get,
what you have always gotten.

Very simple, wise words once said to me but a very non-BK from another planet altogether. I am a tiny bit uncomfortable at posting such as 'absolute' statement (there is always room for a screw up, or a wonderful exception within most rules) but good, solid theory to work on.

I know this is not an exact response to the topic or statement, but here is another option to "returning to one's own vomit". The option the healer, therapist or psychopomp often takes. It is, to go back into that state of being, or to come and go at will, and stick around a little to help other lost or damaged souls who are finding their way out.

I, personally, would like the forum to be a place where people come, change and go; symbolic of the metamorphoses they are undergoing exiting the BKWSU. But, at the same time, it would be nice if folks put back in a little bit of goodwill to keep it going for others to benefit from, i.e. helping clean up other people are vomiting, or whom have been vomited on metaphorically speaking.

A record of one's experiences for others to read, one's best understanding and explanation of what happened to one would be good too. Or a bit of maintenance, e.g. recording and summarising the discussions, offering helpful resources etc. Styx around, but only for a short while.

New knowledge appears to have been overwhelmed by the responses to their first questions ... I wonder across which river they were taking us?