It is in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

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jann

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It is in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post28 Jun 2009

It must be the TOLI!!!! Get one and let's see what's really in it! Patanjali has also recognised the use of certain drugs for producing Psi or paranormal experiences.

Drugs for producing Psi or paranormal experiences. :D :D (sorry)
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ex-l

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Re: Its in the toli ...

Post28 Jun 2009

Not helpful, keep your focus jannisder ... but, yes, drugs (psycho-active herbs) induce "experiences", not all "paranormal". Both yogic and spiritualist would argue, open the individual up to separate and external spiritual influences. Read up about Ayahuasca use, for an example. The whole "Psi" thing was a funny pseudo-scientific blip in the history of spiritualism, it seems to have died away now.

We have been over this one before. There is an urban myth that the Hare Krishna's used to spike their prasad with drugs (because many of the adherents were drug taking hippies before they joined up). I remember being told that the Hare Krishna sweeties made your hair fall out ... because they were all bald (shaved). Someone freaking out about funny, foreign "Indian" stuff applied it to the BKWSU too. As a rumour, it has not spread far.

Funnily enough, I'd stick to what the BKs say, the "something" is the "psychic" connection and the touch involved in handing it over.
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rayoflight

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI and the "paranormal"

Post28 Jun 2009

ex-l wrote:stick to what the BKs say, the "something" is the "psychic" connection and the touch involved in handing it over.

Gives a whole new meaning to "mouth-born".

duty bound

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI and the "paranormal"

Post28 Jun 2009

Thanks for the link. I have just recently started reading "Patanjali Yoga Sutras" and finding it clear and concise, which makes a nice change from the sometimes incoherent babble of" some Sakar Murlis". I put that down to poor lazy translation ... "we all know the white trash wont get it anyway" type of translation.
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rayoflight

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI and the "paranormal"

Post28 Jun 2009

I, too, have found it clear and concise but someone needs to proof read the writing before publishing. There are too many typos that stops it from flowing. Not your problem I know, but just saying ...
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ex-l

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI and the "paranormal"

Post29 Jun 2009

I cant afford the time to find a really good version of the real Raja Yoga Sutras, but there is a copy here and you can download a text version, here. I have no idea how useful or valuable it is ... philosophy to me is just poetry; some good, some bad. I think the external forms of any philosophy, which include the written and even spoken word, are fairly meaningless and it is the internal form that one should be aware of and study. By "internal form", I mean everything from the unspoken social structures to the psychic influences. A lot of which is simply looking at what they do rather than say.

Some Tibetan summed up my opinion about much of this stuff long before me as ... "dancing on books". I see this piece was written in the 70s, fairly early in what is now called "The New Age". I find that an a-w-f-u-l lot of New Age stuff is just that 'dancing-on-books-which-are-on-the-heads-of-dancers-that-are-dancing-on-books-which-are-on-the-heads-of-dancers-that-are-dancing-on-books' ... I would not base my life on that foundation.

Common to that is misappropriating "ancient wisdom" to substantiate whatever it is one wishes to do whether it is the BKs and their End of the World religion, or some drug taking hippies attempting to justify their chosen vice.
Although the experimentation on psychedelic drugs is still in a primitive stage and researchers have not arrived at any definite conclusion as regards the utility of these drugs fot the benefit of mankind, there should be no objection to accepting these drugs as na aid for inducing paranormal experiences ...

May be if the author was not stoned they would have made so many spelling mistakes!?! What position are we in, relating to drug use, 30 years later?
As has already been described above, the psychodelic drugs induce paranormal experiences by bringing in a change in the state of consciousness which can be compared with the sate of samadhi.

A comparison does not mean it is the same ... and it is clearly not.

One of the problems with the rumors of that the BKs "put something in the toli" is that no one has ever substantiated what or provided any evidence whatsoever. I mean ... WHAT? What did they put in it ever, even if it just happened once? Name the devil. To suggest a global conspiracy across all the Kitchens in the BKWSU is ridiculous ... sure, Dadi Janki is beaming out of Madhuban, appearing in all the kitchen at 4 in the morning and spiking the sugar with LSD!?! You see how crazy it would read?

What I would accept is, is it that individuals are intuiting SOMETHING is going on and then seeking a "rational" answer according to their level of consciousness. As there is a lot of ignorance or denial of the unseen or "psychic" elements to Brahma Kumarism, they look for "rational" material answers ... which, naturally, appear crazy.

Here what I would real like is for someone like Terry to step in and explain those unseen "energies" that are transmitted between individuals and how they work upon our individual consciousness.

What I do continue to underline are the similarities between other occult traditions and the Brahma Kumaris ... and ask, 70 years later and all those millions of dollars, where is it all going?

Do we have enough evidence now to come to some conclusion?

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post29 Jun 2009

Recently I heard of a taxi driver who frequently takes people to the local centre as saying, "I heard that you people put something in the food so people will keep coming back". This I think is a small example of what others say when the BKs come up in conversation in public.

I believe it is only the pure yogis who can cook for BK community ... though a mother and Father can cook with as much love for there family if that is how they feel about their family.

Could a T-bone stake be just as nourishing and beneficial as a lentil curry if it is filled with lovefull vibration? Being that the vibration of light in the food would override any negative dormant impurity in the T-bone stake. When the need arises I have seen that If there are no Yogis available to cook then a manic depressive would suffice. Many people I think would knaw the leg off a cow when faced with starvation, "you know not hunger" until faced with no sustenance over a few days.

Having worked in hospitality ... in the kitchen of restaurants, it has given me reason to avoid food cooked in a place where often the chef is a angry ant. Give me holy prasad whether it be the hare krishnas, BKs or the local temple.
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yogi108

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post29 Jun 2009

I agree with ex-l ... there is nothing in the TOLI which you get from the BKs. I have seen them prepare it and it does not have anything mixed in it at all. SO GUYS ... RELAX.

Yogi
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rayoflight

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post29 Jun 2009

I remember the first time I had lunch at a retreat years ago, the food was so good it was as if I was eating "love" itself. I went back many times after that and it was never the same again. I've often wondered what was in the food that first time because it had a strong effect on me and it pulled me back there.

The unfortunate reality is that when I did go back, the BKs never lived up to the promise of "love" that was in that food. Inversely, it was fortunate for me as it kept me away.

I too have worked in the food business and an angry chef is pretty scary, but so is a bossy Sister who throws you out of the kitchen just because she can. The setting may be different, but the neuroses are still there.

It is so clear to me now how much of this stuff is mental conditioning and I can bet all the jewels of the Golden Age that if the BK's were starving, they would eat like everybody else too. All that pretentious (definition of pretentious: "making claim to or creating an appearance of, often undeserved, importance or distinction") drishti on food is just a way of saying, "I cannot mix with the world." And people thought Michael Jackson was weird ...
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ex-l

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post30 Jun 2009

rayoflight wrote:I remember the first time I had lunch at a retreat years ago, the food was so good it was as if I was eating "love" itself. I went back many times after that and it was never the same again. I've often wondered what was in the food that first time because it had a strong effect on me and it pulled me back there. The unfortunate reality is that when I did go back, the BKs never lived up to the promise of "love" that was in that food. Inversely, it was fortunate for me as it kept me away.

I guess the BK response goes somewhere along the lines of, "remember the days of your spiritual childhood" and "the Honeymoon Period effect", then they excuse the loss of that love and high due to the alleged and ongoing "purification" that starts soon after, or your bad meditation. Its not really a good enough explanation, is it? Like so many ...

I am not sure which, is why I started the "Beautiful side of evil" topic to explore other possibilities. Basically, the topic is proposing that the first rush is some kind of psychically induced and chimeric high, designed to addict individuals until they are mentally and socially conditioned enough to remain and be preyed on. And that it is no way unique at all to the BKWSU.

You might get a little tickle to keep your plate spinning at later dates but that is all. So why? How does it work?

If it is all self-induced, then why is it not stable and persistent?
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rayoflight

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post30 Jun 2009

ex-l wrote:If it is all self-induced, then why is it not stable and persistent?

Good question!

It's definitely not self-induced. Rather, it's an induction. An initiation into the cult. Like you say,
... the first rush is some kind of psychically induced and chimeric high, designed to addict individuals until they are mentally and socially conditioned enough to remain and be preyed on.

During this "honeymoon" period, I was tainted because a Brother gave me a vision that caused me much confusion. I was, of course, told that the Brother had nothing to do with it and that it was "God" but now I realize it was that damn entity playing games with both of us.

The vision, of course, contained the energy of the entity and, for months, I was high as a kite and unable to function anymore. It was as though I had been given a very high dose of morphine and I KNEW it was not normal and definitely not of this world. It was at that moment that I became an addict. And from that moment on I seriously questioned the validity of the BK as a spiritual organization. I was drugged and drugging is used to sedate people into doing things for you. The drug had encrusted itself so deeply into my being that I always went back for more. More meditation, more Yoga, more Baba, Baba, Baba, Baba ... It's just horrendous when you think about it.
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Mr Green

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post30 Jun 2009

I used to cook the toli, hundreds of pieces at a time, I even invented a few new ones (or was Baba working through me, ooer missus). I have cooked in GCH, GRC, Ilford, Chelmsford and Madubhan, I know what's in it ...

Look out, ex-l is on his anti-drug buzz again ;).
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rayoflight

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post30 Jun 2009

Great! Tell us ... what's in the toli??
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lokila

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post30 Jun 2009

Mr Green wrote:look out ex-l is on his anti drug buzz again ;)

Well, here is another suggestion. It's not the toli, not the 'paranormal' but plain science: the natural love drug.
Wikipedia wrote:As people fall in love, the brain consistently releases a certain set of chemicals, including pheromones, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin, which act in a manner similar to amphetamines, stimulating the brain's pleasure center and leading to side effects such as increased heart rate, loss of appetite and sleep, and an intense feeling of excitement. Research has indicated that this stage generally lasts from one and a half to three years.
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ex-l

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Re: Its in the toli ... PSI & the "paranormal" in the BKWSU

Post30 Jun 2009

Mr Green wrote:I used to cook the toli, hundreds of pieces at a time, I even invented a few new ones ... Look out, ex-l is on his anti-drug buzz again ;).

I am not half as "anti-drugs" as I am "anti" all the nonsense that druggies spout to justify their indulgence. On a philosophical level, they are nothing but drunken louts pee-ing into the stream of human thought that we all have to drink from and puking all over the ground we sit on. I mean, if you indulge, indulge and be happy doing so. Just clean up your mess afterwards, don't try and turn your cross into Jesus, and use a spellchecker.

As for liberating the toli recipes, perhaps we have found our true calling ... today the BKWSU sweetie shop, tomorrow the world!!! I heard that demand became so high from the spiritually intoxicated and sexually repressed BKs that the Brahma Kumaris actually started a paid for sweetie shop up in Mount Abu.

Does the price for the sweets include the dhristi?

Although scientists understand the chemical effects of falling in love, the aftereffects, do they know how and why one falls in love with the object of that love or how to make someone fall in love with you? That, to me, seems to be the trigger mechanism the BK spooks use.

There are loads of successful elements one might identify at play in the flirting the BKs do, e.g. the long staring in the eyes, the subtle little touches, the language, the feeding and so on. But I still think the controlled psychic bonds that are created between individuals BKs, or BK teacher to student, are used as conduits for other spiritual influences which trigger such effects. I do not think it is "all in our mind", or "all part of me". Again, if it was, I would suggest then it should be a constant and predictable effect, we should know how to do it, do it at will and introduce others, everyone, to doing so ... scientifically. By which I mean reproducibly every time.

It is not though. The effect is random. There is some other "logic", element or effect at play. No one can really explain that random effect.
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