Brahman, Paramatman, Atman

Thanks for the video clip tinydot. It was very informative. Give me a few days or more to properly understand what Deepak Chopra was saying before I make any comments. I think I understand what he is saying but I need to ponder on it for some time before I make any comments.

OK. So I did not take that long to come up with an answer.

In my post on Brahman, Paramatma and Atma, I was using the wave-particle duality principle (of quantum physics) to explain the concepts of Brahman, Paramatma and Atma. I was saying that just as there is a duality in the existence of the electron and photon as particle/wave, there is a duality in the existence of Atma/Brahman and Paramatma/Brahman. I was saying that just as the electron and photon can seem to exist as a particle and as waves; even where the soul is concerned, there is the metaphysical state of the soul as a point of light and at the same time, the soul is using the Subtle Region where it has the qualities of waves/vibrations.

But Deepak Chopra is talking about something else. He is talking about our consciousness being in the corporeal dimension or/and in the subtle dimension. He is talking about how our consciousness can leap from the consciousness of being in the corporeal world to the consciousness of being in the subtle. I would say that though we are seeing everything in the corporeal world, our consciousness is actually in the subtle dimension. However, there can be an increase in the energy level of our consciousness as we shift it from the corporeal realm to the subtle realm. Then, when our consciousness drops from the subtle to the corporeal dimension, our spiritual energy level drops. This is similar to being body-conscious and being soul-conscious.

While in the body-conscious state, we feel like as if we are the body. We feel this way because our consciousness (which is spiritual energy) is off a lower quality (a lesser energy level). This is different from the soul conscious state where our spiritual energy level is higher. The BKs are trying to use the higher subtle energy level even while doing everything in the corporeal world. They are trying to make sure that the spiritual energy level of their consciousness does not drop while they are carrying out their activities in the corporeal world. Where consciousness is concerned, there can be various energy levels which we adopt like how the atom has various orbits for the electron to use. In quantum physics, the quantum leap is the movement of an electron from one orbit in an atom to another. It involves a change of an electron from one quantum state to another within an atom. The electron can "jump" from one energy level to another very quickly.

Similarly, we also jump from one energy level to another when we become body-conscious and soul-conscious. Our consciousness adopts another energy level as our consciousness jumps from the corporeal dimension to the subtle dimensions. The corporeal dimension is like a different energy level from that of the Subtle Region. So to shift our consciousness from the corporeal dimension to the subtle dimension, we have to change the energy levels of our consciousness. When we are in the body-conscious state, we will feel like as if we are the bodies and when we are in the soul conscious state, we will feel that we are not the bodies and that we are in the corporeal body but that we are not the corporeal bodies. A similar theory applies even for spiritual healing and for 'positive thinking'.

Deepak Chopra is referring to how our consciousness has to leave the corporeal dimension and go into the subtle dimension for spiritual healing and for positive thinking to work. But off course, all thoughts have to go into a subtle/metaphysical level because they have to get stored in the memory bank of the soul. So we have to be very careful of our thoughts. This is what the 'positive thinking' theories tell us. It tells us that we can create anything through our thoughts.

Deepak Chopra's words as follows are being given an explanation after the word, “Disease can be caused and cured by a shift in consciousness. ... If you feel genuinely attractive/attracted, you will attract others to you”. Deepak Chopra is trying to say that whatever thoughts we create while in the subtle levels, can easily turn into a reality in the corporeal level. This is the concept of “positive thinking”. Chopra is saying that a thought is a unit of consciousness which represents 'information and energy' just as electron and the photon are the indivisible quantums of 'information ad energy'. A quantum is a basic unit for the energy of electron or photon. Chopra is trying to say is that the thought as a basic unit of information (as energy), can change the energies in matter based on the information in the thought.

Deepak states that a shift in consciousness creates a shift in biology. This mean that when we go into the subtle dimension, nature is also there in the subtle dimension and we will be dealing with nature in it's subtle state. A thought at subtle level is very effective and it easily takes shape / form. This can be referred to as the 'creative forces' as a result. Healing is enabled through such thoughts at subtle level and such healing are through those creative forces.

It is in the Subtle Region that we influence matter. Just as we have the soul, matter (in the corporeal world) also has subtle spiritual light energies (in the subtle dimension). When we take the subtle form and instruct the subtle energies of matter to heal itself, they act based on our instructions and the matter of those subtle energies gets healed.

I had studied a little on spiritual healing though I do not practice it. In The Knowledge of spiritual healing, it is said that our corporeal body has a subtle body which represents the corporeal body. The subtle body is an exact representation of all our organs etc in the corporeal body. When any part of the corporeal body is in a bad state, the subtle energies in the same area in the subtle body is in a bad state. Thus, when healers go into a meditative state, they will look at the subtle body which represents the corporeal body to see where the problem is. Then, they will advise the patient that there is a problem in the heart area or lungs or certain part of the hands or body etc.

The patient will then go and do all the medical tests to see what is wrong in that area of the corporeal body and the medical tests will state the problem and the patient will take whatever medical treatment that is necessary. Yet at the same time or as an alternative treatment, the healer will heal the subtle body at the relevant area and through healing the subtle body in that area, the corporeal body responds and gets healed. Healers go into a meditative state to heal the subtle body. When there is any problem with any part of the corporeal body, the subtle body in that area will look darkened and when the corporeal body is fine, the subtle energy is just pure white light energy. Some of the healers see coloured lights when they examine the subtle body and I have forgotten what each colour represents.

There are many different kinds of subtle bodies representing different aspects relating to us. So the BK subtle bodies for transformation etc is different from the subtle bodies used for healing.

Spiritual healing has to be accompanied with the intake of proper nutrients and 'proper thinking' because if the body lacks any nutrients, the corporeal body will get affected and so proper nutrients have to be taken. Improper thoughts can also bring about diseases. Constantly using the vices will easily bring diseases to the corporeal body.

I am not a student of Deepak Chopra and so I wouldn't know what he had in mind when he said something. But based on common sense etc, I have tried to understand what he was saying.

I hope I have not confused you guys further with what I have said. You are right; science is not a language which everyone will understand. It is easier to understand words like, “Whatever you think will become a reality in the corporeal world”. The spiritual science behind this is that whatever we think will be turned into subtle energies to get stored in the memory bank of the soul. When it is put into record in the the subtle form, it will become a reality.

Since I was little, I was exposed to medical treatment, medicines etc because I had Brothers and Sisters who were doctors and they were always talking about it. Later, I married a doctor and that had also given me some exposure. I also understood a lot about the subtle self since I was reading and trying to understand it since I was around 10 or 12 years old. So when I did spiritual healing after I left the Brahma Kumaris, I understood what they were teaching me.

I have family members who seriously study spiritual healing though they are only using it on themselves and to help close family members (with no payment). So discussions with them had also helped me understand it all easily. Maybe, all these have helped me to understand what Deepak Chopra was saying. But I don't think a person who did not understand the sciences relating to Quantum Physics, spirituality etc, will be able to understand what he is saying. Deepak Chopra may also be using words used by the quantum physicists in an ordinary way thus making people wonder if the word had a scientific meaning or an ordinary meaning.

Can you understand what I have said in this post?

Why use the sciences to understand spirituality? Well, the soul is a point of light energy and so it will be easy to understand and explain it through using the principles in science. But as I had said earlier, science can only be used as an aid.

Your answer is very sincere. Thank you for taking the time to do so. I think that part of the problem with Chopra and other New Age gurus is that they 'learn how to bullsh** well" and I am afraid that the BK movement is studying the New Age gurus and learning to do so as well. That is why people call it "psychobabble" ... it is entertainment ... it is marketing not science ... at the end, you have the product and the cash registers.

Of course, I agree that some spiritual healing does have value. And that it is good for people who have left the BKWSU. It is very good to go and explore these things for yourself without cursing them as "Bhakti" and a competitive business, like the BKs do.

In fact, there is also scientific evidence now to support that spiritual healing works. Look out for studies done on Matthew Manning and others. And, no, "science" has not got a theory to explain it yet. That is part of the cultural problem.

Unfortunately, few people outside of science understand the nature and culture of science and so they misuse use and show disrespect to it.

It seems to me that you are being honest when you are talking about is an analogy or allegory. Not a scientific reality. A way of helping to understand a theory.

Is the soul "a point of energy" ... by science, no. It is not "energy". It may be a 'something' but we do not know yet. It is beyond science.

Is the soul "a point of energy"? We do not know yet. That is a Brahma Kumarism only. An applied value. A view from this body-conscious reality. Infinite ... infinitesimal ... eternal ... they are beyond comprehension.

Unfortunately, if you are 'scientifically' rigorous, as a practise and even experience, Brahma Kumari practise is so close to other hypnotic practises and experiences so as not to be able exclude that there is a hypnotic element to it. We really do not know what the experience is. Until you remove the hypnotic and psychic influences to Brahma Kumarism, you cannot tell what it truly is ... except by what you see materially.

Is the soul a 'something' ... OK, I can accept that ... but the problem with Brahma Kumarism is that it is a conveyor belt that takes us from a + b + c = 'xkysyfycz'. It all starts simple, easy and logical ... and then it is blow completely out of orbit and into an illusionary world based on false histories, guru manipulation, unprovable claims and logical fallacies. It become delusional very quickly. Most BKs are deluded. Highly deluded.

If you are interested in how another ex-BK, with some intelligence, copes with post-BKWSU life, look at the reinvention of BK Robert Shubow and his Sat Yoga, here: http://www.satyogainstitute.org/. He also has a background in law. (I am not recommend him or it. I just find it interesting to see what is going on).