Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

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ex-l

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Re: Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

Post17 Jul 2011

People often go on about the big, bad Evil Conspiracy ... is there a Conspiracy of Good going on as well?

Has there always not been a "Conspiracy of Good" going on to counter humanity's stupid, greedy and nasty tendencies and are the BKs part of that? (... My honest opinion would be the good people try to change things, are used up and then leave, or are driven out of the BKWSU).

Mike, I feel you misrepresented my position. I do not to agree or deny conspiracy theory but question what anyone can do about it. A big part of what you are talking about is just "global capitalism" (or whatever it is called). How are you going to fight that? For most people "global capitalism" is just wonderful and it gives them all the stuff they need and want. The problem with conspiracy theory that I see is that

    a) it has no products to sell
    b) it has no services to offer
    c) it has no army or religion with which to suppress people
So what can it achieve ... and what is the point of investing oneself into it (as a religion)?

As a individual one has the choice of sitting back on the bank of the river and let it destroy itself (if it is so bad), getting involved to subvert it to do some good, or starting something new. Sadly, most conspiracy theory gurus I meet do nothing good. They don't even live good lives. I would even go as far to say that they are just slightly envious of the people in power and want it for themselves. Want to be boss because they believe they could do better ... without doing any of the work to build and achieve what has been done.

Putting aside the 'Pro', 'Con' and factual argument, what attracted and attracts you to it? (My feeling is the two CT and BK, are similar and connected).

    Is it the sincere desire to help people?
    Is it a political ambition?
    An academic interest?

    Or is it just another sort of Gurudom because the offer of BKWSU Gurudom either did not suit you and/or it demanded too much effort and commitment from you?
What motivated you to look at the BKWSU and then choose Conspiracy Theory instead?
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ex-l

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Re: Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

Post21 Jul 2011

The impudent student may not respond but the humble shifu still continues to teach ...

Before we look at anything, you must look at the mind ... the lens through which we see ... as, obviously, any distortions will distort our understand of what actual is.

There most certainly are super elites amongst our race however you might imagine them. There are super elite capitalists, super elite carers, super elite artists, super elite intellectual, super elites cooks, super elite porn stars ... super elites, if not all good are inevitable. That is why I ask, what is your alternative? We teach through our examples, not ideas.

For most people, super elites are so distance that they have never met them and can only see them not only via the distorted lens of their own mind, but through the distorted lens of the popular media ( ... few can chew on Chomsky or the likes, even Chomsky admits his limitations). With all respect, many of the gurus of conspiracy theory are themselves struggling to understand and much of the conspiracy media is at a comic book level. It is far from a finished product.

For most people therefore, their conception of these issues falls into mental slots that are very, very old and quite primitive even.

In the past, we scared each other with stories of giants, now we scare each other with stories of the Illuminati.

In the past, we had a tendency to cultic medieval religions (like the Brahma Kumaris), these issues naturally fall and fit very well into those tendency.

By nature, some of us are actually nihilistic by nature. "End of the World" -ism might just be a symptom of severe melancholia, helpless, repressed rage causing and depression (as has been suggested of the Brahma Kumaris, much to their distain). We enjoy the pornography of pessimism or even schadenfreude, dwelling on it and exaggerating it out of proportion or usefulness to use ... I argue the Brahma Kumaris have done so for decades and so too do Conspiracists.

All of these examples exist separate from the actual facts ... a collection of "facts" and relationships that are far to big for our small minds to entire comprehend.

What happens when our minds overload? They crash like computers leaving some people ripe for abuse by cults and the like. I would argue this is how some cultic approaches work. They call it a "brute force attack" in computing. It is the opposite approach to "love bombing" in cults. It is the overloading and traumatising of the mind in order to put it in a state to accept the proposal that the traumatiser is then going to offer, e.g. "blah ... blah ... blah ... It's the Jews", "blah ... blah ... blah ... It's the Communists", "blah ... blah ... blah ... It's the Freemasons" etc.

Nope. It is more complex, more random and more out of anyone's control than that. And I think the Brahma Kumaris have risen into that scale and nature of activity as well ... the leaders are not in control, they are running after the stampeding horses trying to catch them.

Therefore, what I am attempting to do is not deny the conspiracy - of which I can do little to nothing to stop or change for the better - but at least examine the mind that is observing it.
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ex-l

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Re: Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

Post25 Jul 2011

Mike26 wrote:I find your blanket description of the process of discovering untold histories and hidden facts conspiracy 101. This is an offensive remark which I take personally. These remarks show disrespect to genuine scholars and researchers. It is an infantile evaluation and one that does not fit with real research into these matters. Please keep offensive comments and closed minded dismissals to yourself.

Mike ...

Taking a remark as personal and "offensive" is just another defence ... avoiding having to go deeper into the discussion and obfuscating the issues. We all know that running around "being offended" is a bit of a game these days.

OK, cut the chase ... name these "genuine scholars and researchers" and their work, and let us judge.

Please remember, we are looking at two aspects,

    a) their analysis of the current regime and trend
    b) their proposal and personal example of a better way of life.
I would say the problems with many of the individuals in this area is that;

    a) they are at best armchair revolutionaries and at worst fruitcakes
    b) they were decent academics who then went fruitcake (like Anthony Sutton),
    c) they are dangerous right wing, gun wielding, would be libertarian, Americans.
And, I am NOT accusing you of being a fruitcake but I am accusing some of those creating and propagating this meme, thereby spoiling any good analysis.

Unfortunately, although fruitcakes might get the odd fact right, they lack an overall perspective. Most of their audience (and remember this is a consumer market with special publishers and promoters rather than a political movement) just want to be entertained by post-modern ghost stories or thrillers rather than do anything; for the world to miraculously change but still have their 4x4s and automatic rifles.

On the other hand, you have everyone from Noam Chomsky to Lyndon LaRouche, attempting to make sense of things and proposing some kind of alternative.

Who are your thought leaders and how are you changing your life for the better?

Mike26

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US Gov warns of white domestic terrorism recently

Post30 Jul 2011

Hi Ex-BKs -

The items below are good for us all to know about

As a backdrop to the recent horrific shootings in Norway, the US government has been presenting the idea of white middle class people as the new terrorits and domestic terrorist as the new threat. These last few months has seen several of these warnings issued including a video from Homeland security.

Information about US citizens who fit the white middle class profile and other domestic groups are being monitored by the new FUSION centres grwoing up in many major cities. The criteria these centres use for a possible terrorist include smarlty dressed nice guys who workout a lot, people with controversial views or bumper stickers on their cars and Ron Paul surporters etc. These centres are using acts like the partiot act to monitor people fitting their criteria.

The fusion centres are a colection of HQ's set up after 9/11 to coordinate and mangage emergency situations. Ten governers have been appointed who will weild supreme power across all states at times of national crisis including suspending the constitution. The new serious organized crimes agency recently establish is UK are believed by some to be the equivelent of fusion centres.

Below are links to relevant articles and videos

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rists.html

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/14312 ... -terrorism

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpps/news/d ... c_14241928

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_center
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ex-l

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Re: Fluoride dangerous

Post02 Aug 2011

From Fluoride dangerous for BKs.

I appreciate this stuff is important to you Mike, but please "take the pulse" first and don't patronise us in someway suggesting "you are awakened" and we are not.

That is just like the Brahma Kumaris saying, "we are pure, everyone else is impure" ... "we are knowledgeful, everyone else is ignorant".


I am going to pick that post up here in "Conspiracy Theory" thread because of the mechanisms used. This is, of course, another typical old hat "conspiracy theory" story. Mike, please stick to your BK and exiting experiences and help us expose the BKWSU if you can.

As an argument, the post starts with a fallacy ... a false argument ... called 'argumentum ad populum' which means, "appeal to the people" ... or the proposition of a false popular belief. "Most of us ... blah blah blah" is a yukti, or device. Mike, cheap politicians and conspiracy theorists use it a lot. It would be best to use a different strategy, like asking a question first.

When people use such a device, realise that you are being mentally manipulated - manipulated by the common desire to be the same, be accepted by other people and accept the majority view - and then filter it out. Look for the facts yourself.

Why would fluoride be especially dangerous to BKs? I would have though the idea that every glass of water they drink has been pee-ed down someone else toilet several times before they poured it was more of a concern to them (water in cities is recycled many times, perhaps 8 or 9 times) but generally, the BKs don't bother. The BKs believe the whole world is impure and as long as you stare at it ("give it dhristi), it is safe and won't effect you!

And I thought it was sodium fluorosilicate that was used in water fluoridation, not hydrofluorosilicic acid?
Mike26 wrote:Most of us have been told that the fluoride in our drinking water and toothpaste is the friendly kind found in tea leaves etc. ... This is a lie spun by governments for decades. The fluoride in our water is really hydrofluorosilicic acid - a toxic waster product produced through the phosphate mining industry and used to make fertilizers.

This is the official reply from The British Fluoridation Society. Which do you believe?
The British Fluoridation Society wrote:Summary

Only two compounds of fluoride are permitted for artificial fluoridation in the UK: fluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6) and sodium fluorosilicate (Na2SiF6). These compounds are manufactured to exacting quality standards and must meet Department of the Environment purity specifications.

Fluoride compounds used for water fluoridation are not now, and have never been, obtained as industrial waste.

Personally, I don't like the taste of fluoride, but I like cholera, dysentery and parasites caused by traces of fecal matter etc even less ... and plastic bottles full of Evian are a terribly selfish burden on the environment. I do, however, filter my own drinking water at home.

We don't get too many BKs here, so what positive alternative do you suggest for ex-BK and friends and family of BKs Mike? Do you think it is more important than how to get back their loved ones or will help with recovery? Personally, I do think caring about one's health is important.
Common misconceptions

It is often claimed by opponents of fluoridation that the aluminium and phosphate fertiliser industries have a vested interest in promoting water fluoridation. It is worthwhile addressing those claims here.

The phosphate fertiliser industry

Apatite is the raw material used in the manufacture of phosphate fertilizers. Fluorine for the manufacture of fluorides for water fluoridation is recovered from this process. The manufacturing process of fluorosilicic acid for water fluoridation involves recovery of the product from a vapour phase, which ensures a high degree of purity. The product is therefore manufactured in tandem with the production of phosphoric acid, and can be described as a co-product. It would be equally valid to describe phosphate fertilizers as co-products of the manufacture of fluorosilicic acid, since each are valuable products.

Prior to 1987 when hexafluorosilicic acid was produced in the UK for water fluoridation, manufacture was intermittent to match market need and represented only about 10% of the total fluorine which could be extracted from the process. Since production in the UK ceased, supplies of hexafluorosilicic acid have been imported by chemicals companies to service the established market. The service is Quality Assured to BS5750, and the specification conforms to that given in the Department of the Environment's Code of Practice on Technical Aspects of Fluoridation of Water Supplies.

The aluminium industry

The basis of the claims that the aluminium industry promotes fluoridation in order to dispose of its toxic waste seems to be based on a tenuous link more than 40 years ago in the USA. In the 1940s, The Aluminium Company of America (ALCOA) acquired a chemical manufacturing plant which produced fluoride compounds by the method described above (not as a waste product of aluminium production). ALCOA was then using sodium fluoride as a catalyst in the aluminium smelting process, but soon replaced sodium fluoride with less costly fluoride compounds. ALCOA sold the chemical plant in the early 1950s; their last sales of sodium fluoride were in 19522.

Nowadays, the aluminium industry is the largest user of fluoride compounds. Thus, the aluminium industry has no interest in promoting water fluoridation whatsoever.

40 year ago tenuous link are typical of conspiracy theorists. The movement has not moved forward much. Ever generation a few individual re-discover all this same stuff and re-cycle. Some bits are valid, some are rubbish; mostly it is done for either status or to sell books, mostly it is a waste of time and energy to get into because the proponents have no following and could not the social and political revolution they believe will save us.

In that department, conspiracy theory is kind of like Marxism's loopy younger Brother in my opinion ... and until it has more tanks than Stalin, will never make any impression on the status quo.

Mike26

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Re: Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

Post02 Aug 2011

YAWN YAWN

Have you even watched the interview with Professor Paul Connett?

I would encourage you to watch it before you engage in the usual yawn yarm debunking and dismissals.

Do people on this site really imagine that an eminent and highly respected professor and an expert in his field, along with many other authorities in their fields would present these reports because they are the victims of some infantile delusion. Does it not occur to people that these people would thoroughly investigate the fluoride issue in depth before speaking about it and risking their careers?

Who would you believe - official sites from an industry with the need to conceal information and with a vested interested in promoting use of fluoride, or independent experts trying to bring a crime to public attention?

Quoting official sites is like going to an official government site to read about the real reasons for the invasion of iraq or libya. Unless of course you are so gullible as to believe governemts tell you the truth.

To do a bit of trite cutting and pasting from official sites is totally missing the point as you would see if you watch the interview with Connett.

You may well be surprised to know how many millions of people do not know about the effects of fluoride.

If people care to investigate for themselves the information is compelling. The fact that people decades ago raised issues still being raised today just indicates how long people have been struggling to get the truth heard.

I will refrain from quoting the evidence from professor connetts book as the interview covers a lot of it.

It also seems patently clear to me that the dedicated mission of one or two people on this site is to automatically debunk and belittle these issues. I am sure this has been noticed by many. Despite the counter-points and spurious attempts at logical argument, why not just let people look for themselves.

As for the bit of armchair unqualified analysis of my alledged writing tactics, your ambition once again outreaches your ability. You give me too much credit really. Seems you have ample time to think far too much about these things.
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Mr Green

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Re: Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

Post03 Aug 2011

Each to their own, my hobby is music.

As for professors, the worst fools are the educated ones.

What's next, we never landed on the moon or elvis works down the chip shop?

I, personally, am not interested in de-bunking these ideas, the same as I am not interested in Santa Claus (unless he brings me a shiny new bicycle).
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ex-l

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Re: Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

Post05 Aug 2011

Mike26 wrote:You give me too much credit really.

OK, I apologise for that ...

For the record guys, I PM-ed this guy and tried to make peace with him but got no reply.

I lost count of how many genuine questions I asked him and gentle prompts to keep 'on topic' and focus about what this forum is really about. I value Mike's BK-related input very seriously ... but I become concerned when the valuable, relevant discussion is snowed under with entirely off topic stuff that would cause the forum's credibility to be damaged.

Although I can give as good as or better than I get, I have no pleasure in the exchange of barbed condescension and, again, become concerned when they risk damage the group spirit.

Mike, I watched a bit but it is nothing new. I made my own decision about Fluoride decades ago. It is a bandwagon that certain types regularly jump on, it goes in and out of fashion, but the discussion does not progress.

It is just that those who relish its conspiracy theory value seldom if ever do anything about changing things.

Is the allegedly effect of Fluoride treatment on the general public measurable ... who knows. There are plenty of worse things ... like TV, mobile phones, fast food, noise, traffic etc. I think the last thing people leaving the BKWSU need, individuals have been led to be paranoid about impure vibrations in food so much that they don't eat their grandmother's cooking, is yet another food phobia.

There are preferable alternatives, such as UV treatments, filtration and even distillation if you really care. The waste after one batch of distillation would be enough to convince most people to change ... but this it irrelevant to the BKWSU.


"Water ... it won't kill you. You need to drink it, and it tastes better without pee masking chemicals in it".
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