Conspiracy Theory (was The Deception of the BKs)

Also people seem to have the need to kick against something, it helps us have an idea or identity about ourselves.

To me governing bodies lying and deceiving the public is total normal and expected, I see no reason to get upset about it, after all there is no such thing as 'the truth' that's just an ideal

not really worth worrying about, better to just keep ones own house in order

Well, you guys have your own opinion and I agree with some of what you say. For some there is a kind of pathological need to believe in higher powers and this need can manifest as pre-occupation with conspiracies. I've met a host of people ready to believe in almost anything no matter how unsubstantiated. Others as Mr Green identifies need to kick against something. I feel many who fit into this category are disgruntled with life and harbor bitterness about the perceived injustices and hardships they have encountered at the hands of a corrupt system. There are of course 'justified' grievances as a consequnce of real injustice and corruption.

I have encountered a variety of motivations which drive people's interest in the discovering the bigger picture. Some I would describe as possessing very unhealthy motivations driven by various psychological disturbances and fractured emotions. Others as you have surmised seek power and influence for their own sake and this represents the inevitable narcissism of some. Each sphere has it's messianic individuals, confidence tricksters and sales men looking to make a fast buck on the back of a trend. I, personally, have very little time for these people and view them as playing into the hands of all those who want to put everyone in the same camp and label them as crank conspiracy theorists. They are perfect candidates for government agencies eager to debunk challenges to the propaganda they feed the apathetic masses.

This is all unfortunate and really does commit a powerful injustice and hinderance to those individuals who come from mostly scholarly backgrounds such as the academic, scientific and journalistic fields who are true investigators. These people are hugely distinguished and distinct from the gullible parties I've mentioned above. The interest of this group is in substance to any claims they make, evidence from verifiable sources and expert witness accounts. When this group of seekers make a claim they ensure there is evidence to give the claim credence. They are the most feared group from the perspective of governments because their claims are supported by substance and are not so easy to dismiss or ridicule (although this does not prevent the government and its various arms from doing so).

It has been mentioned on this forum that some BKs are earnest seekers after the truth concerning the movement and its real history. I would say that many members on this forum are interested in the same and present their own expert witness testimony to substantiate their claims about the BKs. There are obvious similarities here with many like myself and many others who aspire for an accurate account of events. It is easy to perceive groups in a blanket fashion and attribute the same motivations and aims to all of them but that is a mistake. There are always many shades and varieties that make up the whole. Lets not dismiss so easily the reality that there is an ever increasing cohort of earnest investigators dedicated to exposing the real picture.

I am struck by the comment from Mr Green that suggests it's normal for leaders and governments to lie and be corrupt. I agree with that statement but because it has become the norm does not make it right? Should we just passively dismiss it as inevitable and unchangeable? The extent of the corruption is mammoth and adversely effects the lives of millions. In fact, all those who are caught in the systems they rule and control. If we care as people of substance about the human condition, we naturally envisage a world less dominated by manufactured suffering and hardship.

Much of this hardship, including the billions living of two dollars a day, is the result of a toxic world system orchestrated by even more toxic individuals. It must be changed for all our sakes including future generations if they are to experience the right to health, freedom and prosperity. To change it first means to expose it for what it is to the masses are clearly and potently as possible so that eyes wide shut are opened for real. This means exposing the extent of the corruption and those behind it. Then we must look ahead to a new and much more benevolent system.

ex-l, you make an excellent point. Who is there to take us forward to a better alternative? I would say we all are here to take us forward. When people break free of the indoctrination, the propaganda, the apathy, the sense of powerlessness, and are newly armed with an understanding about themselves and the world long kept from them, the future will not be as hard to discern as you might imagine. Already in the US and Europe alternative 'transition' towns and communities and being established.

This is a growing trend as people become disillusioned with the existing system and step away from the popular culture. The view and education propagated in these communities is very different from that peddled by the current corporate controlled system. They home educate, and teach their children a new philosophy based on ethical (some might say spiritual) values. Of course, some communities simply reject the system because they have always felt alientated form larger society. Of course, all shades exist here too.

I, personally, don't believe the BKs have got any closer to the world they envisage but I feel pretty sure those real architects of our societies have become very close to the world they desire.

If some people feel my comments are off topic then fair enough but I feel it is important to acknowledge real investigators and seekers from those driven by less healthy motives.

to those individuals who come from mostly scholarly backgrounds such as the academic, scientific and journalistic fields who are true investigators. They are the most feared group from the perspective of governments ...

I am struck by the comment from Mr Green that suggests it's normal for leaders and governments to lie and be corrupt. I agree with that statement but because it has become the norm does not make it right ... a toxic world system orchestrated by even more toxic individuals.

I, personally, don't believe the BKs have got any closer to the world they envisage but I feel pretty sure those real architects of our societies have become very close to the world they desire.

As long as you keep coming back to the subject at hand on this forum, the crazy BK world, you will do OK and here you do draw parallels. One such good example of the former you mention would be the deceased Anthony C. Sutton whose 3 volume PhD about how the USA/Wall St actually built up the Russian State called "Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development" was so right ... that it led to the deliberate destruction of his career by the American secret services from which I think he never quite recovered. This is very "real world stuff", do the Brahma Kumaris teach about it at their university?

I think the big question regarding the Brahma Kumaris was written up in Orwell's "Animal Farm" decades ago (which is summarised here) with the Brahma Kumari leadership clearly playing the part of the pigs. Portraying themselves as the spiritual revolutionaries throwing out the impure humans from the farm, are they not just becoming the same as the impure elite they are ousting? Animalism ... Brahma Kumarism ... what is the difference?

My run-ins with them suggests ... EVERY BIT SO ... the BK IT team as the pigs called "Squealer" (who represented the media which spread the would be Emperor's version of the truth to the masses), Hansa Raval, and the other shadowing figures, as "The Dogs" (who represent the military/police enforcers and spies), all the good hearted and earnest mata-jis as the horses who were worked to death by the pigs. I think one could probably do a step by step breakdown of the Orwellian analogy in BK terms.

I'd like to ask capital Mr Green who he thinks belongs in which category.

Personally, I believe the BKs have got a lot closer to the world, and status, they lust after and being safe close to the real architects of our societies and in a safe position within the world they desire.

Open question, have you ever heard of a Brahma Kumari leaders suggesting that followers in some way rock the boat or take up an ethically struggle for the proletariat? Or have you not always just seen them chase, suck up and slime to those in power and tutor their adherents in dishonesty about their real intentions and tricky duplicitous manners? Honest answers please.

I have to agree with Mr Green, it is "normal" because they are humans and that is what humans do. Even BK humans. It is just that as one gets "bigger" as a person, one's tricks, lies and abused get bigger too. Some time ago I stopped seeing people as "good" or "bad" and started to them them as "bigger" or "smaller". "Big people" are capable of big lies and big wonders, "little people" tend to small lies and smalls wonders.

Perhaps the starting point in life is to realise how "big" or "small" ones is and work within that influence. One of the problems with Brahma Kumarism is that MASSIVELY inflated egos ... inflated to the point of insanity ... everything has to be Global ... UNIVERSAL ... S-U-P-R-E-M-E!!! ... when really it is just at the an Indian corner shop level. I am not a big person. I can look after my life. Sorting the world out is the job of the big people that have screwed it up. There is honestly very little I can do as I do not have it in me to become a big person.

Now, what limits us to the size of person we can become would be a good subject for another topic.

Within this topic ... does the end justify the Brahma Kumaris means? I mean, are the BKs part of the cure, or part of the evil? Will the Brahma Kumaris "secret servicing" their way into positions of power and influence make the world a better place? Or are they just there to do as you first suggestion, supply the religious opiate to the masses to keep them happy as they are enslaved (... whilst they enjoy their luxury retreats the world over).

As ridiculous as they sound, those are valid enough question people really should be asking about them.

Given that the Brahma Kumaris aim is to "inspire" a Nuclear holocaust that will finally kill off 6,000,000,000 human beings ... their beliefs fit in perfectly well with the conspiracy theorists' claims that the GLOBAL elite would to cull off the majority of human and turn the rest into passive slaves. With themselves as Masters.

One of the things we have never quite done is analyse the conflicting parties or tendencies within the BKWSU. As most of the power struggles takes place in India, and amongst the Sindhi - Hindi elite, it is not something I really know anything about. I suspect to them the Western BKs really do not matter very much ... or does the income justify, say, Janki Kirpalani's power and influence? Some say the West does not even really bring in that much dosh.

A very interesting posting ex-l which raises several compelling points. I am encouraged too by your reference to Anthony Sutton and his excellent work. His other book focusing on 'Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler' is equally powerful as is 'Skull and Bones' and 'Trilateral Over America'. His demise from prominance ochestrated by CIA you also mention.

Perhaps you know the case of Gary Webb? Award winning journalist in the 90's investigating and exposing CIA links with organised drug smuggling and the Contras. His work cost him his life at the hands of CIA (a general concensus among commentators). The list of those people either murdered or destroyed professionally by the corporate/bankster cabals for exposing the facts is extensive.

This is the real world as you point out. Do the BKs teach about this real world of mass deception, manipulation, economic slavery, and corrupt agendas? During my time in the BKs there was lots of talk about Pandavs and Kuravs of course, the degradation of Kaliyug souls, Maya and impurity. The general theme peddled was that all humans are impure therefore corrupt and destined to behave in degraded ways as it is their part in the Drama - you know the stuff that's spouted. Hearing the same old comments became rather trite and boring.

The real architects of this mass deception and the mechanics of how this is articulated was in my experience never taught to anyone. Not surprising when the stance is one of detachment and uninvolvement with the dirty world of Kaliyug I guess.

The Animal Farm analogy hits a nail on the head for me about the BKs. The similarities are numerous. You have pointed to some strong parallels already which seem to me spot on. Not just Animal Farm presents parallels with the BKs, let's not forget '1984'. In this book the despotic big Brother regime is constantly revising (means changing) history for example, something the BKs are fond of. The regime demands blind obedience from the masses and an unquestioning, non-resistant response towards this process of revising history.

So is this the real agenda of the BKs in terms of the world they want to create? Is it really about getting closer to those corrupt and poisonous architects who really control the world systems? I believe you are correct in your comments about this. All I ever saw them do was treat non-yogis with money and influence and status as superior to everyone else, sucking up to them like the most ridiculous sycophants.

The phrase VIP was always bound to make their eyes sparkle.

With regard to the BKs ever encouraging members to take up ethical causes this was a non-starter. Most causes and stands from people were easily dismissed as a waste of time and effort. The real way to change things was to change oneself, to become pure so that the world will be transformed and the old order swept away in the sacrificial fire of Gyan. The idea of taking an ethical stand on some issue or cause was dismissed as impotent and a sign that ones own stage of Yoga was somehow lacking even to entertain the notion. Serve others through the mind - you remember all this crap.

I imagine getting closer to the corrupt and controlling elites connects with their idea of rising to influential positions around the world so they can easily take over the reins of power when Destruction comes. What was that phrase often used about this - "The Brahma Kumaris would steal the butter while the monkeys are fighting" or something like that. I agree the egos are huge in the BKs although most try to hide behind that well-worn phrase self-respect. Egocentrism just oozed out of their skins. This brings me back to an earlier point in one of my postings and I accept that others have their own valid views about this.

Who is using who?

I mean are we to view the BKs as seeking to alter the corrupt power structures of the world in a benign direction through contact or association with them - a form of covert manipulation. Or is the motivation less noble among most of the BKs who secretly desire and enjoy the benefits and status that comes from these associations? The issue for me concerns how are they viewed by the elite? Are they the ones being used (one among many organisations and NGO's being used) world-wide to promote just another religious philosophy that renders people docile, apathetic, deluded, distracted, non-resistant and ignorant about the real issues?

Are the BKs supported because from the elites perspective they help engender passivity and ignorance in people which allows them to be more easily controlled? Who is really using who? Is it possible that this agenda on the part of the elite is something even the top BKs are unaware of?

Maybe I give them too much credit and they are viewed as a harmless group of do-gooders and treated by the elite with indifference. It is not impossible that religious groups are both infiltrated and manipulated in ways they may not be aware of. There are some excellent books describing how the Mormons, 7th Day Aventists and Jehovah Witness movements were infliltrated and manipulated from within by agents of the government. Most of the leaders of these movements were unaware for a long time that there movements had been secretly co-opted into following a larger agenda by minions of the elites. The globalists have been playing this kind of game for a very long time and are experts at it. There is evidence that this has been plenty of times with reference to other organisations so my suggestion is not a conspiracy theory. It is a strategy, as information illustrates, which is par for the course.

The BKs plan for a global destruction of the population down to about 900,000 humans is pretty close to that of the globalist elites. Under Agenda 21 of the UN and other documents the ideal population numbers for the future in terms of sustainability is around 1 billion. I am told by colleagues that the new book by the science tsar to the Obama administration John P Holdren (Ecoscience, populations, resources and environment') talks about significant population reduction to around this figure. Again, the project for the new american century PNAC (an influential government think-tank featuring Dick Cheny, Rumsfield and Wolverwitz) document 'Reorganising America's Defences' 2000, not only discussed several theatre wars with middle eastern countries such as Iraq, Syria, Iran, libya and pakistan but also refers to china as the biggest rival for pre-eminance in the 21st century.

Many commentators on this document and others have suggested that there is a desire for a third world war which would, of course, be nuclear.

So is this the real agenda of the BKs in terms of the world they want to create? Is it really about getting closer to those corrupt and poisonous architects who really control the world systems? ... Who is using who?

Of course, the BKs would use ANYONE. Power, money, position ... in my time they were all over the lowliest claims to "fame" one could imagine sure that the individual "Must be a Brahmin". I found it to be embarrassingly uncool and contradictory of real spiritual values. They may have changed by now but the Robin Gibbs and Lynne Franks episodes suggest not at all.

But here is where I think your and the Conspiracy Theorist's theory is utterly wrong and suffers from the mental illness of its proponents most of whom have no real knowledge or connection with the reality of their interest ... They really honestly seem to think that the "Global Elite is One", engaged in a coordinated Satanic Plot™ to take over the world and deny them, "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness via Gun Ownership, gas guzzling SUVs, and Eating the World into Starvation and Obesity via Fast Foods" ... and that the United Nations Organization is their Anti-Christian Communist tool to do so.

I am saying it is part of a ridiculous, right wing, myopic Middle American view of the world ... and ask what way of life they prescribe as an alternative?

If you were to say, "there are good elites, bad elites, many elites, charismatic individuals, a whole lot of random stuff, numerous mechanism that are beyond any group or individuals control, a growing rule of law" ... and loads of cock ups ... then I would say, "Fine, that's life". Do you want to try and make a world without elites ... what sort of world would that be? But to suggest they are all one and out to get us is daft.

Sutton was a good example of a fine academic whose career was damaged for the sake of the American right's politics but lost the plot and started writing comic books to try and come to grip with what he could not digest.

I mean are we to view the BKs as seeking to alter the corrupt power structures of the world in a benign direction through contact or association with them - a form of covert manipulation. Or is the motivation less noble among most of the BKs who secretly desire and enjoy the benefits and status that comes from these associations?

What makes me smile benignly is the Brahma Kumaris belief that they really can "bring benefit" ... or make their followers believe they are bringing benefit ... and "purify" all these politicians and organisations, when their own house is full of the same kind of crap; right down to ignoring critics, historical revisionism and people being kidnapped and beaten up ([i]in the case of the PBKs[/i). Albeit at a lower level.

Do you think Sister Jayanti gets off on hob-nobbing with all these VIPS and just keeps the show rolling because of that? Janki and the old Indian Sisters probably do not have any idea at all who it is they are meeting. Just tell them it is someone how might give some money/property/sort out a problem and they light up and put on a show. From previous discussion, I think I'd say that there were a few lower rank Jayanti-philes who certainly did get off on that element of Brahma Kumarism, and I think a large part of the appeal of Brahma Kumarism is that it makes very ordinary and mundane people special because they are somehow "connected" with the United Nations or rich and famous people.

Remember the BK fanzine published in India ... it seemed to be full of "BK with some 'important' person" pictures. Status by association.

The issue for me concerns how are they viewed by the elite? Are they the ones being used (one among many organisations and NGO's being used) world-wide to promote just another religious philosophy that renders people docile, apathetic, deluded, distracted, non-resistant and ignorant about the real issues?

How are they viewed?

In India, a stinking rich religion for middle class women who break up families.
In the West, with embarrassment. 50%, an unimportant, self-absorbed, Indian community group; 50%, a dangerous End of the World cult ... but protected via the social values surrounding on "multi-culturalism". Politicians would be afraid to criticise them for fear of being accused of being racist.

Again you make some useful points. I guess we will agree to differ in view on the global elite issue. Sure there are a variety of so called Elites with varying motivations - thats pretty obvious. The Elites I refer to are the super-elites and remain invisible to the masses. They have no public profile as such. I guess the accurate description would be to use the round table analogy (round tables are a favourite strategy of these Elites as a means of organised influence on society). The round table group has an outer round table made up of less powerful figures who belong to a diverse range of position swhile the inner round table consists of a very few figures who make the decisions and give the direction to the outer round table. A small group, a very small group, within that stratum of society some might call Elites are most certainly working in concert together and foster an agenda which is not in the interests of the masses. Many of these figures have traditionally come from well established families from europe and north america but these figures also hail from many other areas of the world such as China and Russia.

We are all entitled to our own opinion. There is no issue there. I am not on this forum to argue the toss on this as I and countless others have gained sufficient evidence of this from our research to know it has substance. There are people who have worked very much from the inside in these various contexts offering qualified insights into the workings of these cabals. These people are not so easy to dismiss as mentally ill or deluded. I attend rallies on an almost fortnightly basis meeting and speaking with people from every walk of life who are becoming increasingly aware of the bigger picture. Within these great throngs of people are those with first hand knowledge of how these Elites work. These people display a cogent and lucid intellect honed on critical analysis. They are far from the gullible bent heads fresh out of the assylum.

What is more encouraging for me is just how the real agenda is beginnig to present itself in an ever more blatant fashion around the world. This is obliging even the most dense denier to take notice and ask questions - to sense something is not right about it even though they may not know what to do about it. Examples include such diverse issues as the proposal to put lithium in our water, corporate tax avoidance on a global scale, the increasing concern between autism and other conditions with and adverse reactions to vaccines, the way Monsanto has declared it will own the patents to every seed on the planet that produces food, the plans for a moneyless system based on microchip tracking and monitoring technology, the Libya issue which is really an attenpt to prevent Gadhafi from initiating his plan for African Union based on a unifed currency founded on real gold coinage and the rejection of the dollar as the world reserve currency while the country is also plundered for its oil while the world looks on apathetically. This growing awakening is spawning hundred of activists groups like We are Change, UKUncut, BigBrother Watch, Freedom Radio, to name a few.

Many view this broader enlightenment as a spiritual experience - 'One must understand the way the world operates and ones part in it in order to have a sound basis for increased spirutal awareness'. This is the phrase used by many I encounter.

To be honest, I don't really care who perceives all this or who chooses not to. I am simply not concerned about that. Brand everyone in that trite fashion as cranks and misfits if you like - no problem. I am very confident that as the road ahead is met by us all the truth of these ideas will be confirmed amidst some of the most difficult, harrowing and massive global changes in human history. The BKs I suspect are either viewed as insignificant by the parties I refer to or have been co-opted by them a long time ago into serving another agenda.

i suspect also even an army of the most qualified minds with a library of compelling evidence would not be enough to sway the opinion of some who believe they know best. Such people testify to the effectivness of the systems brainwashing process instituted at birth and reinforced ever after to a point where the person begins to resemble the pathetic character in Orwell's 1984 who 'really does see' five fingers when in reality only four fingers are held before him. While Fukushima spouts deadly radiation everyday across the world and wars are insitigated by the corporate/bankster cabals only too happy to send armies to reign death down on anyone that stands in the way of there desire to plunder resources, many are content to stroll along in there Disneyland minset all too ready to attack those who seek to nudge them out of it. The truth can also be scary.

It is hard perhaps even harder for BKs who having been deceived and brainwashed soundly for some time by the BKSWU to face the even more challenging realisation that long before that indoctrination by BK-ism they were unkowing victims of an even greater mass deception, and still are being deceived by that very system they were born into. From one illusion and set of delusions to another set and back again. To be fooled twice can be particularly humiliating. And there is an irony here too because having been decieved by the BK movement it is easy to become hyper-vigilant and hugely defensive against any perceived attempt to re-indoctrinate from another source.

I understand the psychology of this but it is potentially somewhat of a handicap to being open to a real enlightened perspective. I overcame this handicap long ago and i know it well. I was able to risk looking and learning again. Of course many are wary of swapping one false indoctrination for yet another false indoctrination. I empathize with that feeling but courage is important. There REALLY IS a bigger and more enlightened awareness to be had after life with the BKs or even recovery from the BKs. The legacy of that indoctrination does not have to blind you to a more solid appreciation of the workings of the world. If you are too scared, don't risk, stay safe within those secure confines within you, if you cannot face the humiliation of being wrong again, reject it happily and ignore it for as long as you can. But if you really want to wake up, courage is needed and it involves taking a risk. Some of us have risked it and believe me this time it is completely different.

Can we go beyond the faith element though?

Again, it all seems very close to Brahma Kumarism where "The Knowledge" and "creating awareness" is all powerful ... but little to nothing changes in the practical.

What religion (way of life) are these new messiahs preaching? What lifestyle changes have they made and are they willing to make?

Does it not just boil down to them wanting their cheap goods from China, flights exotic destinations, Japanese cars, lots of beer and to eat what they want but magically ... somehow, because they have "The Knowledge" of the Super Elite, their actions don't have any effect and they are "set Free" by it? They want everything they have now ... but just without the "Super Elite" running it?

I am going to start to answer you ex-l as you've given me a project now, I will be adding more and more as and when life permits

I think the farmer is Brahma, amd Mama his wife, both ruthless but ultimately victims themselves

of course the pigs are the Dadis, however innocent they are

I understand what your saying ex-l but you seem again and again to get bogged down with the faith question.

This is not a faith issue, not Brahma Kumarism or any other kind of ism. This is not about blind belief based on some ghostly spirit speaking through an Indian medium. Lets bin this notion of faith.

People like myself are interested not in faith but verfiable evidence, facts, documents, observations and expert testimony. Nothing could be further from faith in this prcess. This process of discovering the bigger picture is based on gathered evidence through investigation where the scope for interpretation of that evidence is kept as limited as possible. Its not an easy task as I am sure you will agree but it is necessary to gather as much evidence as possible to support any hypothesis. We don't start with some wild notion or faith but look at as much concrete evidence as possible and consider what picture or hypothesis it presents.

I can tell no one feels special disovering and investigating these things. Often what is found is far from inspiring or encouraging. The sheer scale of the deceptions almost begger belief. The picture that unfolds is a very challenging one psychologically because it fractures any idea that you were seeing the system and the way it operates accurately. There are no messiahs from the earnest group of people I refer to. Just people discovering a terrible picture and and feeling a deep sense of responsibility to warn others about it.

As for nothing changing. I'd say things are already changing and this awakeing when it reaches a suffient number of people will initiate some monumental changes in the future.

So not blind faith, not another round of kumarism or any other ism in disguise ... and if it is conspiracy and blind faith issues you are hooked on there are some profound examples:

A great mass of people are every day caught in a mire of blind faith. A blind faith that is based on the notion that what they have been told about how the system works, how life really is, their place in the system and the values and lifestyles to adopt are all based on a blind faith that the informants of this version of events such as the education system media, literature, scientific community and so are telling the truth.

That is a blind faith and a spiders web most have been caught in all their lives and founded their hopes, dreams and aspirations on. This blind faith when subject to open minded scrutiny assisted by access to alternative information quickly threatens to fracture. One realizes that that faith is a house built on sand where almost every grain of that sand turns out to be a lie, an omission, a distortion and deception.

It is here at this point that for many the process of 'Cognitive Dissonance' is triggered. Faced with two contradictory bodies of information the individual is thrown into an internal conflict. Stability is underminned and one way of restoring it is to banish the threatening data in favour of the safer and more familiar shores of the original blind faith. Others are braver than this however, and have the courage to accept the implications of all this untold history and information. When this occurs one's perspective is rapidly reconfigured and settles into a more accurate and aware position.

As for conspiracies, this disney world view propogated by this system since birth is littered with them. the greatest manufacturer of conspiracies are often the so called 'offical' accounts offered by the Elites, the governments they control and the media outlets they command. We don't really have to look too far to identify them. They are legion.

So blind faith is something most people know very well, they are close friends with it every day. This blind faith is very powerful and is constantly reinforced in the people by the system. We reject this blind faith, we reject the system of deception and manipulation of our minds, we reject the system of economic slavery and the exploitation of the many by the few. We understand the potential of all persons when the shackles of illusion are broken. We embrace a future of change toward a completely different system, set of values and a system based on benign aspirations for all people.

Most have spent too long in the snare of the deceptions they have become dependant on them and find it difficult to envisage a world that is vastly different. People don't need Brahma Kumarism or some other band of messiahs to add just another layer of deceptions and false perspectives to the ones they already carry with them. Given access to the right information and with a genunine desire to learn everyone can wake up and shed the illusion themselves.

... when this occurs one's perspective is rapidly reconfigured and settles into a more accurate and aware position.

And then do what? Same car, same mortgage, same holidays, same job, same luxuries produced by Far Eastern sweat shops, same food flown from all over the world, same bad haircuts ... what has changed? How has the world miraculously transformed? It has not. Only their religious/faith alignment has. A feeling of superior by being aligned to the 'Church of The Conspiracy', its "Knowledge" and its knowledgeful priests.

In terms of political change, how long will it take the anti-conspiracy activists to rise to power and succeed in overthrowing global capitalism which is really the evil you are talking about? Do they really want to? Will they really succeed where the French, Russian, American and all the other revolutions failed?

Do they have any alternative policies and economic theories (beyond returning to the Gold Standard and liberating suppressed alien free energy technologies)? Do they have any power at all to bring them about? Say everyone tomorrow "knows" ... how does that change anything? It does not. And it won't change human nature either.

It has taken 70 years, multi-billions of dollars, and an incredible amount of personal effort for the Brahma Kumaris elite to bring together and control around a million highly dedicated followers ... and how much influence do they have on the world stage? None basically. They are just feeding off their followers collecting real estate.

I think where the likes of them "win", is that they give individuals a framework within which to live. Most individuals don't want to think or question their frameworks. They just want to be catered for and given one for free.

It does not matter if it is deceptive (hell, the BKs teach their adherents how to be deceptive). The framework might be complete bollocks ... but that does not matter. It is a framework within which to be relatively happy, and the BK framework is an incredible tight, simplistic one. "Sit down, do nothing, hypnotise yourself, don't question and here are 7 simple ideas to answer all the questions you might have. If that is too many, just repeat the mantra ... 'Om Shanti'".

If you do the research as many have you will also find ...

No one does not and using implied group pressure tell me that "many" or "everyone else" thinks that way is hardly going to attract me to your cause.

Elites are inevitable because, like the animals we are, some people are better at whatever it is than others ... and they carry their human animal nature with them as they go. Some people are metaphorical carnivores, most people are metaphorical herbivores ... and get eaten.

We are all part of the foodchain. We are all just not at the top of it. There is no conspiracy about that.

Well ex-l well done and you have a right to your view.

I do believe there are many on this forum who might be inspired enough to go and do their own research and arrive at conclusions very different to your own. It is to those I address my points. This debate could roll back and forth for a long time but that is pointless.

What is more constructive is for others to put these points to the test and go and investigate them. This is where real awareness lies not in never ending point and counter point debates although I enjoy the good natured jousting.

So come on all those brave souls on this forum, put yourself on a great journey and learn about things as they really are. An open mind and open eyes is hugely preferable to a semi comatose half life that passes for everyday ordinary existence these days.

Yeah.

Go for it Jann : )

What is more constructive is for others to put these points to the test and go and investigate them.

I ask you again ... and then do what?

What is your/their alternative proposal on how the work will run?

You are still not budging beyond the level of how knowing "The Knowledge" is being powerful, and the "Spread Awareness" mantra, in other words evangelism.

Investing one's time in the Church of Armchair Conspiracy Theory is more pointless than signing up for the Brahma Kumaris. One ends up with nothing at the end of it. At least if you are a good little BK you might end up living at a tasteful retreat center out in the countryside and have a quiet life.

... and you never actually told us how exactly the Illuminati Super Elite control the BKWSU (which I don't believe).

Looking at when they have managed to get involved with rich industrialists in India and Africa, I'd say the BK are more interested in using established networks to promote their revenue gaining religion in however a undiluted manner they can; and where they have to dilute it, they do even to the point of allowing individuals to turn it into a business.

Well this is an interesting question ex-l

What comes next and how are we to live in the future.

You might imagine that several ideas and visions have been presented. All have merit and others shortcoming but that's natural. At least people are looking ahead to a more benevolent and freeing system.

I've mentioned transition towns and communities before. These communities are experimenting with different kinds of systems and ways of sustained living.

One more coherent body of suggestions comes from the Venus Project in the USA. The founders of the Venus Project propose a resource based economy system based on using today's advanced technology to provide for the basic needs of everyone. They suggest that technology has reached a point where food, housing, transportation, water, sanitation, manufacturing etc. can be initiated and sustained using automated technology. They go further by suggesting that labour as we know it today, i.e. working to make others rich in an exploitative tax-slave debt based system can be abolished and production managed by machines.

In the future, they envisage and plan for their are no banks, governments, ministers, capitalist leaders or otherwise. Their is co-operation en mass to decide on the direction of life. Freed from labour, and exploitation by elites, they propose a life spend striving toward self-actualization, the realization of ones potential and and the investigation of all parts of the spiritual fronier. The central tenet surrounds the idea that basic resources will be abundant therefore the role of scarcity of resources which is one basis for the exploitation of others will not exist. Chidlren will be educated in a ethical and spiritually based system in which the economic slavery of the 21st century will be viewed as the darkest and most toxic chapter in human history.

Their views are interesting though not complete - as no system could be.

There are other groups working on a new human rights charter very much based on ethical and spiritual principles. These charters embody the rights of all people live free of any form of exploitation or economic and idealogical abuse. They see education of the children as the obvious key to establishing a new system. Most groups seem to be proposing a 'transitionary period' where some guidance will need to be given to the new generation. Alongside these newly envisioned charters on human rights, a new charter of crimes against humanity is also being proposed citing many of the practices of today such as the deliberate creation of poverty and the exploitation of poorer people for financial profit will be considered a crime against humanity.

This is an issue that concerns me greatly. Not enough energy is going into the planning for the future. first there is the awakening and the dissolving of the current toxic system but then what. It is the 'then what' issue that needs more work. But at least some are on looking forward and planning.

Wrote this in a blur during a quick break at work.