An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

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AscensionAddiction

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An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post12 Jun 2012

BKs don't believe in ETs and UFOs because BK philosophy is totally human- and earth-centric. The Murlis say there are no civilisations out there and the sun and the moon are just the lights for the stage and if people see lights in the sky then its your angelic form giving them visions etc etc.

So here are a few pointers to the abundance of physical evidence for UFO and ET phenomena:

Not all UFO sightings are lights in the sky. Some of them land and leave evidence: UFO Evidence: Physical Trace Cases.

Here is the audio recording of deputy base commander Lt Col Charles I. Halt as he investigates a landed UFO on an army base.

Objects perform feats way beyond all known capabilities of conventional craft including acceleration that a human pilot wouldn't be able to cope with.

UFOs tracked on radar: UFO Evidence: Radar Cases.

Scientific analysis of implants: Technical Analysis of Alien Implant.

Abductess have implants removed that are analysed by scientists who conclude they are of intelligent design but that they couldn't repliacate them themselves.

Youtube video of a removal of an alien implant.

DNA analysis: Starchild Project DNA Discoveries Making History.
While the physical anomalies obvious in the Starchild Skull are very impressive, only DNA results can absolutely prove that it is other than human ... However, the most recent tests have uncovered DNA so different from human that the working theory is now at minimum it is a new species, and very likely it is an alien species of extraterrestrial origin.

Derrel Sims works with abductees who have fluorescent markings that match their accounts of where they were handled by ETs: Operation Alien DNA: Fluorescence.
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ex-l

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post12 Jun 2012

I don't think it is a good way to show the BKs are "wrong" as your theory requires a very large and unproven assumption which requires and as extreme an faith as to make more listeners think you are from another planet yourself.

Of course, the day the little green men, or greys, reveal themselves the BKs will have some explaining to do ... but I imagine they will just carry on the same as they have always done.

They will claim the ETs are "long very lost children, "triple foreigners" who have come back to claim their inheritance from God Shiva like last Kalpa. And then they will have pictures of themselves standing next to the Martian, tying rakhi and giving them pictures of God Shiva, to put in World Renewal magazine ;-).

After which they were re-edit the Murlis and Knowledge to include the new discovery adding a new branch to The Tree and invite them to a conference at Mt Abu. Even worse, the BKs' ambitions, and the name of the retreat center, will expand from merely "Global" to "Universal". More, "business as usual".

It strikes me UFO-ism is another investment of faith into an external savour or something/some superior beings that we can have no influence over. In such a manner, I don't see it as that much different from a spiritualism like in the BKWSU, the faith in superior spirit beings. Only a faith more suited to our technological age.

In the old days of Spiritualism, the spirit guides tended to from the Orient, classical Ancient civilisations or Native Americans ... all distant, exotic beings. It seems in this age they have been replaced with voices from the stars or beyond ... but they say pretty much the same things. Who is to prove they are not one and the same thing?

Tell us about your BK experiences ...
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AscensionAddiction

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post13 Jun 2012

You could be spot on with your characterisation of how the BKs would respond :-)

I am presuming you haven't explored the physical evidence for UFOs? I think it is a very rational conclusion that ETs are visiting and not an act of faith. When I was a BK I did not believe in ETS but it was the evidence that this is a very real phenomena that allowed me to let go of that belief and be open the the very real possiblity of ET visitation.
ex-l wrote:I don't think it is a good way to show the BKs are "wrong"

But you must admit it is an unusual one :-).
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ex-l

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post14 Jun 2012

AscensionAddiction wrote:I am presuming you haven't explored the physical evidence for UFOs? I think it is a very rational conclusion that ...

You can safely say ... without any fear of contradiction or being sued for libel ... that the Brahma Kumari leaders have lied to and deceived both their adherents and outsiders in order to manipulate them into handing over money and free labor, and to climb socially. That is proven with evidence and it a little more difficult for the BKs to squirm out of. If you want examples, please ask.

The only typical BK squirm I can think of to that are, "it was Baba testing our faith in Him and the Seniors" or "it was not Baba but some 'childrens' churning", which are sad jokes and not true. If that is how good your god is, he is not good enough for me by a long way.

I find that, in general, BKs are "superior" types, or at least like to think they are superior, and can look down on, or are even taught to look down on, anyone and every other philosophy. There may be nice, humble BKs but I have never met them. I find most rather supercilious, and when successfully challenged ... cowardly. Like a pickpocket being caught, they don't stop; they just realise you are too good for them and they run off to find an easier victim.

To use the example of 'allegedly UFO evidence' is weaker and would give them too easy a ground from which to defeat you. It is funny how they can jump from believing in totally false and ridiculous stuff themselves to then taking a "rational", worldly stance when they want to.

Which is whackier and more unlikely ... interdimensional alien intervention on humanity or 5,000 year old Hindu God repetitions? I would have to agree with you that aliens actually sound more rational ... but I would not sell it as a religion nor use it as an argument against the BKs because they would use it against you. Their god says there is none, so there is none and therefore you are having ego and Maya and are wrong to differ. It's the end of the discussion for them.

I am not a died in the wool skeptic type but all we can really say about 'allegedly UFO evidence' is that there is a whole load of stuff we cannot explain yet ... and it could be anything. The phenomenon, and social milieu around it, is very similar to spiritualism. Some individuals have attempt to cast me in the role of a "believer" in spiritualism because I don't adopt a "disbelievers" position regarding it, and the BKWSU's use of mediumship and spiritualism. Some people cannot believe in the BKWSU because they don't believe that there are spirits and so, therefore, anything the BKs say is fake.

It may well be too ... but in both cases we really cannot tell one way or another what is going on and so to engage in a confrontation of belief is not useful. Usually 'faith wars' just drivers the believers deeper into their own corners. For me, it really does not matter whether the god of the BKs exists or not, nor that aliens come from Pleiades or some other dimensions ... what matters is addressing the ethical issues, the abuses of power and the social dynamics.

... And, for individual ex-BK, to focus their energy onto something grounded and practical. Better to feed starving children or stray cats, save child prostitutes or something.


I am old enough to remember when Erich von Daniken first popularised this religion. In truth, the discussion has not really moved on since then and it cannot. It may have padded itself out and ... just like the BKs ... a few more churches, cults and business have been established within it, but that is all it remains. (The same too is true of the related "Conspiracy Theory Religion").

Excuse me for being a 'party pooper' but my concerns about it are ... just like the BKs ... they are just quandaries that suck a certain percentage of similar individuals in each generation, and take them no where. It is giving your life to something beyond your power and influence. Although we think it is about the idea, usually it boils down to the gurus and their business interests ... the business of selling ideas and it is clear that in this world you can sell as an outlandish an idea as you want

I always said, what India needs are not more godmen, but more sanitary engineers ... the latter being a more charitable, enlightened activity that brings tangible benefits to everyone whose life they touch.

If there are aliens, what we need are hippie, environmentalist aliens not psychopathic, vivisectionist aliens whose idea of enlightenment is conspiring with big American corporations and the CIA.
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AscensionAddiction

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post15 Jun 2012

There is not anything inherently religious about the UFO/ET phenomena. It can be experienced and investigated in a totally non-religious way. A lot of effort has been put in to make people think it is an irrational topic.

National Policy Of Debunking UFOs Began With The Robertson Panel
"The US government's own historical documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act explain why it became US government's policy to debunk, mock, and discredit anyone who provides good evidence for UFOs."
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ex-l

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post15 Jun 2012

There may not be anything "inherently religious" about whatever this stuff is, and we still don't 'know', but human beings are human beings and as soon as you have one person, never mind a group, they start manifesting whatever is in their individual and collective psyches ... part of which is religiosity. And which most certainly can go as far as starting religions around it like Heaven's Gate or Raelism.

Faith is one element of the human psychic spectrum and even if one removes an obviously religious aspect, e.g. Jesus, Buddha, etc people tend to replace it with another, e.g. cultural, political, technological.

UFOism can definitely being cultic or religious in its nature.

For me, personally, I approach it merely as a practical matter on various levels.

    Can I call up and speak to an alien and depend on them doing something positive/what I want? ... No.
    Can I break open the CIA and "prove" the government is in communication and covering them up? ... No.
    Even if I could convince the nation to encourage them to break down the CIA and "prove" the government is in communication and covering it all up, would 'knowing' change anything? ... No.
So what is the point of investing any time and energy into it all?

I don't mean that negatively, I just mean it as it is written. Where would it get me and those I am responsible for?

The only "practical points" to it that I can see are that some people can write books about it and make a little money from it, and other people can start cults around it which either make them feel more special (or give them access to more sex in the case of the Raelians). The nature of society therefore puts most people into the position of being either an unpaid adherent or paying consumer; none of which appeals to me.

Jeff Rense, David Icke etc are part of a very few others who actually make a living off it.

I don't know, in corners such as this there is a lot of emphasis places on "getting the message out" and fighting with disbelievers ... but folks don't seem to think beyond that. Perhaps they believe that once the conspiracy is exposed life will change magically ... do you think it will?
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AscensionAddiction

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post15 Jun 2012

Don't you want to know if we have been visited by ETs? Don't you think that would be an important discovery? Don't you want to know why alternative technology has been suppressed and our unnecessary dependence on fossil fuels is being maintained to the detriment of the planet? I don't think this should be hidden an longer and yes I think it will have a massive impact on all our lives.
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ex-l

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post16 Jun 2012

AscensionAddiction wrote:Don't you want to know ... I think it will have a massive impact on all our lives.

What I want and what is likely are two different things! They say it is the nature of the mind to be restless and always want more, or what it cannot have. I think there's a danger for ex-BKs to want to drift off and invest themselves in unrealistic or fantasy worlds ... after all we did so for perhaps years of our life.

Let's stick to our BK experience, have we removed the vulnerability we had before that attracts us to such stuff?

I guess within the context of this forum, and the ex-BK experience, I just emphasise the need to be grounded and real about our expectations, and where we invest our energy and resources. Is hoping on an alien to make the world a better place truly that different from waiting for an angel to do so? Is it escapism and, if so, is it healthy or unhealthy?

I suppose it's a harmless luxury, if you have the time, resources and inclination to spend, but what I think the world needs most are simple practical things. Therefore, I think it is better to focus on them and the things in our life that we have power and influence over.

In short, it might be true, it might not be true but either way it does not really matter ... the honest answer it is all beyond our power and influence.

Honestly, look at the all anti-war or pro-environment sentiments and movements in the world and look at how little effect they have had on the powers that be. Imagine what it would take, and how long, to build a movement as big as them ... to achieve almost nothing at the end of it. And consider where you would be taking energy away from to do so, e.g. practical human rights, democratic and environmental efforts.

I guess my attitude towards gods, aliens and the super elites who are meant to be running the conspiracy are the same ... I am not going wait on them to help, I am going to get on, face my own responsibilities, do the additional good I can do within my circle. If they want to come and help then, fine, I'll deal with it when it happens,.

Why should we presume "aliens" are benign and interested in our welfare? Is that not part of the faith element surrounding the idea? "Humanity are their children and they have come back to fix our mess". If we look at the evidence of nature around us, they are more likely to be imperialists or alpha predators.

I guess if it is all true the greatest impact on the mainstream the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religious traditions and I would be glad to get rid of all them. They are a recipe for war and conflict. Are they likely to admit they were wrong and hand back all they have taken? ... No.

Are we likely to get an apology, admittance their God was wrong, and refund from the Brahma Kumaris? ... No, again. They'll just slink off, keep the land and property and turn themselves into corporate consultants.

Oh, they are doing that already. Beam me up Scotty ...

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ex-l

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post20 Jun 2012

You'll probably like this ... "They Live", the movie (1988). It's a trashy 'B' movie but a bit of fun.
'They Live' is a 1988 science fiction/horror film, part-science fiction horror and part-dark comedy. In it, the ruling class within the moneyed elite are in fact aliens managing human social affairs through the use of a signal on top of the TV broadcast that is concealing their appearance and subliminal messages in mass media.
An artificially induced state of mind similar to to sleep ... lulled into a trance ... indifferent to others ...

Sounds familiar?

The film's lead actor acquires some magical glasses that give him the vision to see through the facade of everyday life to the elements of control underneath. Metaphorically ... I cannot see much wrong with the view although I cannot suggest it is real.

I wonder what you make of the BKs from this point of view. If there is a big conspiracy at some level ... and if the ruling elite are in on it ... are the BKs humanity's savours from, or trappers for them? Are they raising people up or keeping them down. It strikes me they'd l-o-v-e to be in the elite and have keep adherents passive down to a fine art. There's a full version of the movie, from: here.


Elsewhere, in 2010 Professor Wickramasinghe speculated that life *did* come from outer space ... but perhaps not in the same way as you are proposing.

He was a close association of a BK favorite, Sir Fred Hoyle. The pair calculated what they saw as the mathematical impossibility of "creation" as science explains it, likening it to a tornado ripping through a scrap yard and assembling a Boeing 747 by accident. I remember some BKs being excited about that as "proof".

There's a cosmic BK musing about related issues, here.
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AscensionAddiction

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post20 Jun 2012

Yes, I've seen the film :-).

I am probably still favouring the misguided altruism angle rather than conspiracy in relation to the BKs. But after reading the Allies of Humanity information, the BKs do seem to fit into the description of the pacification programme.

The problem with scientific musings from BKs is they start from the answer, i.e. what they 'know' to be true - then selectively use a bit of science to give it credence.
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ex-l

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post21 Jun 2012

I had a quick scan over the download from www.alliesofhumanity.org and my first impression is pretty unchanged. For me, the tone and message of the channelling sessions is so similar to 100 years or more of similar psychicism, or spiritualism, just that it has updated for our technological days. That is not a negative, judgemental position, just an observation. Extra-Terrestrials (ETs) and "Unseen Ones" seem to have replace spirit guides and enlightened beings; other worlds replace other spirit worlds or dimensions right down using similar names, e.g. 100 years ago you had the "Greater World Spiritual Organization", now we have the "Greater Community of Worlds" ... both say the "true Jesus will not return to the world, for he is working in concert with the Unseen Ones and serves humanity and other races as well."

Of course, you could speculate, as some have suggested, that the gods of yesteryear were also "ETs" ... that they are the same thing. I could not tell if or which. It won't change my life. The future for us will still be dystopian.

It is more "spirit channelling" and we are just as unable to tell who or what these spirits/beings really are as we were in the past. We can accept it and enjoy it the stimulation of it, or we can simply block it out and deny it but we cannot tell if it is true ... and the human activity surrounding it remains the same.

So, the $64,000 question ... relative to this subject of this forum, is the spirit being or psychic influence behind the Brahma Kumaris more of these "extraterrestrial beings from another world" interfacing with Hindustan using its language to do so?
The Extraterrestrial Presence in the World Today

We are the Allies of Humanity. This transmission is being made possible by the presence of the Unseen Ones, the spiritual counselors who oversee the development of intelligent life both within your world and throughout the Greater Community of Worlds.

We are not communicating through any mechanical device, but through a spiritual channel that is free from interference. Though we live in the physical, as do you, we are given the privilege to communicate in this way in order to deliver the information that we must share with you.

We represent a small group who are observing the events of your world. We come from the Greater Community. We do not interfere in human affairs. We have no establishment here. We have been sent for a very specific purpose—to witness the events that are occurring in your world and, given the opportunity to do so, to communicate to you what we see and what we know. For you live on the surface of your world and cannot see the affairs that surround it. Nor can you see clearly the visitation that is occurring in your world at this time or what it portends for your future.

For many years we have been observing the affairs of your world. We seek no relations with humanity. We are not here on a diplomatic mission. We have been sent by the Unseen Ones to live in the proximity of your world in order to observe the events we are about to describe.
The Pacification Program that is being implemented by the visitors is making this possible, in part. The desire for peaceful relations and the desire to avoid war and conflict are admirable but can be, and indeed are being, used against you. Even your most noble impulses can be used for other pur- poses. You have seen this in your own history, in your own nature and in your own societies. Peace can only be estab- lished upon a firm foundation of wisdom, cooperation and true ability.

Therefore, we come not to criticize your religious institutions or your most fundamental impulses and values, but to illustrate how they are being used against you by those alien races who are intervening in your world. And, if it is within our power, we wish to encourage the right employment of your gifts and your accomplishments for the preservation of your world, your freedom and your integrity as a race within a Greater Community context.
Attempting to promote uniformity and conformity, the visitors will rely on those institutions and those values that they feel are the most stable and practical for their use. They are not interested in your ideas, and they are not interested in your values, except insofar as these things might further their agenda.

...

The more that people can think alike, act alike and respond in predictable ways, the more useful they are to the collectives. This conformity is being promoted in many different traditions. The intent here is not to make them all the same but to have them be simple within themselves.
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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post21 Jun 2012

I agree about it fundamentally being another revelatory teaching itself. But within that there are some interesting ideas. And, yes, I think the BKs may be being used as part of a pacification programme. I went back to the Global Retreat Centre in Oxford a little while ago after a long absence with a friend and sat in on a one day retreat. When the meditation started I felt the atmosphere change, but rather than peace it felt more like a subtle anaesthetic :-).
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ex-l

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post22 Jun 2012

There is an old saying, "it is better to rule in hell than serve in heaven" and the BK leaderships appears to have modified that to be, "it is better to rule in hell, then rule in heaven" .

Their god spirits teaches them to think themselves global elite and chase the elite, associating with them and learn to be like them. They have created circles of courtiers and a passive drone class who are willing to give up democracy to sustain them in their kingdoms. Look at how far and wide they are extending their tendrils, into government, business, education ... even police and armed forces.

What better to have a subdued majority donating time and money to sustain you at the top of the pyramid? They may not have the 'full package' that royalty, billionaires and despots have ... but the leaders have considerable wealth at their command and a carefree existence the others do not.

So, if you consider there is a god spirit or spirits behind the BKs, are they of the same order as these ETs you are talking about? Are they working in collusion?
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AscensionAddiction

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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post22 Jun 2012

ex-l wrote:... So, if you consider there is a god spirit or spirits behind the BKs, are they of the same order as these ETs you are talking about? Are they working in collusion?


The Allies material says that negative ETs heavily influence the mental environment and this warps originally good intentions into serving their pacification agenda. Maybe the BKs have been warped in this way.
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Re: An unusual way to show that the BKs are wrong

Post22 Jun 2012

AscensionAddiction wrote:The Allies material says that negative ETs heavily influence the mental environment and this warps originally good intentions into serving their pacification agenda. Maybe the BKs have been warped in this way.

Is there a difference between "negative ETs" and "demons" of yesteryears? Are they the same things?
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