How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

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Redstone

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Re: How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

Post01 Apr 2016

I forgot to add - my wife has always been obsessed with anything and everything Indian - food, clothes, art, music. She has travelled there seven times and is planning her pilgrimage later this year, again wanting me to go with her. I said no because detachment makes unpleasant company.
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ex-l

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Re: How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

Post01 Apr 2016

Redstone wrote:She regards the 5000 year cycle as symbolic as opposed to being literally true. She does however believe in the whole Kirpilani-as-god routine.

In this case, you might keep appealing to her rational side.

How could the 5000 year cycle be "symbolic"? A symbol of what? That is, of course, her own manmat (ideas ... opposite to Shrimat meaning the world of their God and leaders). It's a literal truth for them.

You might have a look at our history work and read up on the old 1930s and 40s documents. There was no God Shiva until after 1955. Before then it was only God Lekhraj Kirpalani Brahma. One could ask about the ethics of all the historical revisions, cover up of failed predictions etc but if it all just comes down to an immature "I like it" ... re the comfortable retreats, unchallenging company etc ... it's a hard argument.

You're right, it's all very narcissistic and self-interested and much about social climbing for me.

What competing "product" or service do you have to offer her?

I'd go to the BK teachers and leader and tell them to keep out of my relationship, tell them you know what they are up to, how they split up families etc etc etc. Charlie's a bit against the ropes at present with internal challenges over ethical issues, e.g. see the latest child abuse allegation in Australia in another topic and ask, "if this is god, why does he allow and condone it and how the leaders act".

A few people have been successful in making a full frontal attack on the BK leaders, they don't want trouble and bad PR. But it's a risky stategy.

Sure, the invitations are all about the belief that you will be "made cooperative" by the vibrations.

We can teach you more of their language and concepts and you can play them back on her. "Is that Shrimat or your own manmat?" being the first ... as in, "is that really what they teach, or just your own imagination?".

The BKs will let adherents wallow around in their own vagarities and imaginations to a certain extent ... it's like fishing for them, until they can tug and get the hook in the mouth. All part of the slow seduction.
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Pink Panther

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Re: How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

Post02 Apr 2016

Redstone wrote:She regards the 5000 year cycle as symbolic as opposed to being literally true. She does however believe in the whole Kirpilani-as-god routine.

I did the same for years.

It’s rationalising it and all the other discrepancies and contradictions in whatever way you can. We do this because the only authority ”divine revelation” has is the authority given to the revealer. If you are to believe the ”divine authority" of the one who has given such revelations, that it is capital ”G” God as self-acclaimed ... or rather, if you are looking for ways to continue to suspend disbelief thinking that’s the only way to continue enjoying the ”buzz" of the "story”, well, the authority of that source has to be unimpeachable. It can’t be false, mistaken or ignorant. You will psychologically do what is necessary to maintain cognitive cohesion. You'll look at it and say ”it’s symbolic, it’s numerology, it’s poetic licence, it’s only told that way to appeal to the Hindu culture” ... so on and so forth. Even the great anti-intellectual slap-down, ”I don't know, I don’t care to know, it makes me feel good”.

But, if one examines the source material for what it is, as written - it is very definite, spoken as literal truth. Many Murli paragraphs actually state that history and science are false knowledge arising from ”stone intellects” and "body consciousness” . F*ck the maths, shove all your evidence up 'you r soul’ because ”This Is God".

That is, in Murlis there is never - repeat never - any indication that it is to be considered symbolically or any other way other than literally true.

For every 1000 categorical statements saying this is all to be taken literally, that it is the one supreme God speaking and the ”Gyan” is God’s truth, how many categorical statements will you find saying to maybe think about it symbolically or poetically are there? Cor-strewth and cor blimey. None.

The compartmentalising of it all is ”normal’ human behaviour, and actually played on by those drawing others in. Take what you like, keep coming just for that.. but its well known that we'll tend to increasingly identify with those we spend more time with.
No, she was raised in a secular household and both her parents were teachers and non-religious. Though from a Protestant background. Her mother traumatized her childhood through constant yelling and general craziness (something she herself admits). Her Father was a very kind gentle man with whom she was strongly attached and devoted (and who left her mother when she was 16), and who died a few months before the BK thing started, so along with her anxiety and health problems, you can can see the stepping stones which led her to the BK door.

From what you’ve described, it sounds that her ”relationship with Baba” is not a substitution of religion but a substitution of Father figures, an appeal against mortality, a mechanism to deal with or avoid grief. And with her mother not providing a model of mature, well-rounded womanhood, that is something not ‘known’ or seen as desirable. The well-mannered ”nuns’ of the BK convent present a more desirable way of being a woman.

Absent fathers and Father substitution is a common characteristic among many BKs I have known, just as much as lover substitution is. God as ‘Baba’ can be a Father to the infantilised, the Krisna romantic ideal to the Gopi fantasy, the projected wise ”senex” to those whose consciousness is in arrested development for any reason ... Like any intangible and ideal, God or a ”Baba" can mean to you whatever you want it to, the relationship can be whatever you want it to be. You’d be amazed how different the ways are that BKs consider who it is they are ”remembering”. It is actually, literally discussed in that way - make Baba your Father, your mother, your friend, your lover, your child, your baby.

Some get the buzz ‘remembering' the abstract, the point of light conceptualisation of Shiva, some the anthropomorphised ideal presented by the long dead but supposedly present angel of "Avyakt Brahma", some swoon over Krishna ... and so on. If you ask someone like Janki which is the true "object of mind” for highest Yoga, usually it will be said that all of these will be equal. Occasionally a class will have one of these presented as "better” but then another class will have another one said to be better.

Mere mortals cannot compete. Our fluctuations, flaws and limitations are obvious to see. We do not become whatever the person thinking of us wants us to be, we do not confirm every thought the way an imaginary friend might. We are always there, even when not being thought about, while God, Krisna or Avyakt Baba can be forgotten, ignored until summoned by ”remembrance”. Just as you can never replace the imagined relationship a teenybopper has with Justin Bieber, or tell a person infatuated with a ”bad boy” that it’s a mistake, so too, no real person can match the projected ideal of the romanticised archetype.

For me, I think the key to breaking the spell is when the cult member begins to recognise that it is not an ”all or nothing” package, that the "sweet experience” had is not exclusive to the rest of the package. Spiritual/mystical ecstasy, deep ‘silence’ or stillness of mind, and all that has been experienced by humans probably as long as humans have existed. The package it comes in, the accompanying narrative is the wrapping and ribbons - or to mix metaphors, its the old wine of human experience is different bottles, but we get hung up on Brands and marketing to ourselves, i.e. we buy the product we think represents the persona we want to present to the world, the type of people or celebrities we want to be associated with.

If your wife is as intelligent and wise and out of character as you say, I think she will eventually see through her own thoughts. How long that takes is anyone’s guess.
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Redstone

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Re: How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

Post02 Apr 2016

Thanks Pink Panther - I hope you're right but I am not very optimistic.

One of the many things that has changed is that I have lost intellectual respect for her, notwithstanding the benefits and comforts she has been getting from BKs. I have spent six months researching BKs, and I like to think I applied objective rigour to the project, and yet I cannot find a single positive thing to say, or has been said (by non-BKs) about them.

The end of world scenario and the so-called current degradations are not new - the only difference nowadays is it's scale. Her comment about the symbolism of the 5000-year cycle is a small step back from her initial literal pronouncements, as is her willingness to eat out, as we did today when we went to the beach - a nice day but ... My personal dilemna in parallel to this is last week I received news re my health that nobody wants to receive.

My wife has promised to help me through the treatment process and hopefully I'll come out the other side okay. Some colleagues and my GP advise me to move out because I need a positive environment to focus on. I loved my wife as much as the day we married 20 years ago. My head and my heart are in constant battle, but I realise that on days when the head is winning, I feel okay.

The 'Father substitute' scenario I fully agree with, and she also adopts some of those BK feminist arguments to legitimize her 'soul-consciousness'. In regards to my understanding of Karma, the BKs have accrued so much bad Karma through the breakup of families that you would lose count of the red cards needed come the day of reckoning.
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ex-l

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Re: How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

Post02 Apr 2016

Here is where I step in and write the unspeakable ... make sure your Will is in order or else your "estate" or property will be going straight to the Brahma Kumaris, either directly or indirectly, as in allowing her to waft around as an unpaid angelic servant for them.

I am sorry to be so brutal but someone has to say it ... we've seen it so many times. Even BK husbands essentially "leaving" their wives to the BK organization along with the house and other assets. The properties becoming centres and the wives being tolerated and turned into menial servants.

I'd also like to say that sometimes this "it's just symbolic" line is just a face saving plot to non-BKs, but within the BK environment they present themselves as strict believers to be accepted their.

Apropos of nothing ...
You can’t reason people out of something they weren’t reasoned into.

- Jonathan Swift

I actually don't agree entire with that.

Just, for God's sake, don't fuel their coffers or finance her fantasy life within them.
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Redstone

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Re: How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

Post03 Apr 2016

Thanks ex-l - I have legal rights and I will be exercising them. I concluded many months ago that the whole BK establishment is rotten and evil, and any association with them is repugnant to me, therefore I will be ensuring that my interests are protected. It is likely she will give everything of hers to them so that she might gain higher status as an angel after the slaughter. The only comment I ever made about the BKs which visibly made her react, i.e. I hit the bulls-eye - was my comment that she is volunteering for them to attain status.
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ex-l

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Re: How To Recognize Characteristics of Reptilian

Post03 Apr 2016

I was a "pukka" BK during the time of her first indoctrination. In my case, during in the early 1980s. I thought it worthwhile to mention that during the time, the Sakar Murlis stated in black and white that "Destruction", the mass slaughter as you call it, would happen around 1986. Specifically, the Murlis said, "50 years for Destruction, 50 years for Creation" and the BKs, from the leadership down, were a buzz that the final decay and collapsts would start to happen a few years before. Those leaders privileged to spout "Shrimat", advice guaranteed and equal to (their) God's would tell us "2 to 3 years".

As it looked less and less likely that the bombs would drop in 1986, they changed the Sakar Murlis to say, "50 to 60 years for Destruction". We did not know or question what was going on. Nor were we told that they had done the same thing in 1976 ... and 1950 ... and for WWII. All those were hushed up and hidden by those same "Divine" beings ... the Top 8 or 108 m ost spiritual souls in the world, as we were told, like Janki or Jayanti Kirpalani.

Something to realise is that when you are a BK, the demands upon you are so full on that there's little space and time and absolutely no room for questioning. Questioning is severely discouraged, generally via subtle ridicule.

Yes, absolutely, it is all about "earning your inheritance" in the Golden Age by giving your time, money, body, wealth, emotions, thoughts ... everything to them. They say "god" but, of course, god has no material needs so they 'kindly' accept everything on his behalf and magically convert the karma into *your* benefit at an exchange rate of 10,000 to 1.

I am not making this up.

Their cosmic "exchange rate" is flexible, e.g. Westerners are told that they get a better exchange rate than Indians because we have to make extra efforts and miss out on the specialness of how sweet "Baba's" language is etc. From memory, it was an extra 20%.

Can you believe that ... this is the level they operated at and may still. (Of course, if you ask me, I think the leaders' "Golden Age" ... all ornate palaces and formal gardens an high technology is all in the here and now). I mention this because if you go to the Encyclopaedia linked to above, or Library, you will be able to find and search for original copies of the Sakar Murlis (spoken while Lekhraj Kirpalani was alive) and Avyakt Murlis (spoken by Lekhraj Kirpalani as a ghost via the spirit medium called Gulzar), and find specific quotes to support such observations.

One thing for sure, the BK leaders believe you can create an Age of Truth (Sat Yuga) out of lies and lying to non-BKs. Or leaders lying to and deceiving followers. Indeed, in the ol days, they used to call this one of their 16 divine arts, "The Art of Concealing and Revealing". One strategy you might consider is "being more BK than your partner", and keeping her on her feet by quoting and referring to the Murlis ... by way of pointing out or appealing to her how stupid it all is and how no one with any intelligence or integrity can support it.

The BKs do, however, have an already prepared armoury of "yuk tis" (methods or strategies) to try and disarm such attacks but we can discuss them too.

To me, the BK leaders have absolutely zero ethics. They don't even understand the meaning of the word. What is of primary interest to them is expediency ... how useful and profitable something or someone is. The rest is just working, unstoppably, around obstacles to their sustenance or progression. Obstacles such as you or us here.

So, go check out some direct quotes and give them back to her.

You may, of course, be told that "your intellect is not pure enough to understand them", and the only way to purify it is to remember Baba and do their meditation ... I would disagree. There is very little to nothing to "understand". It is not understandable. It's only a question of acceptance ... acceptance via repetition ... repetition ... repetition ... saying Baba 10,000 times a day (... not a specific BK number or quote but what they are told to be by Dadi Janki etc), reading the entire Murli several times etc to imbibe it.

Any other specific questions you have, just fire away ...
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