Gyan everywhere

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Gyan everywhere

Post11 Dec 2015

Hi guys. OK, for the ones who are not aware of me, I am a BK, I don't know the perfect term, sceptic? Agnostic? Neutral? Explorer?

Anyway, the trailer for the movie X-Men: Apocalypse is here and I just had to share it with people who know about Gyan. I might show it to BK friends as well, since it can be interpreted in any way one chooses to interpret it. Pro-Gyan, anti-Gyan etc.

Is it a message from the Drama that The Cycle is ending? Is it a sign that the BK path is nothing more than a cult not worthier than a comic magazine? Is it an ironic scene in the Drama in which people will be entertained by watching something that is actually a predestined reality?

(Worth noting the obvious, that the 'Baba' of the Murlis (be he God or not) would actually tell mutants to love and support humans even if they are doomed and that is a big difference).

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ex-l

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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post11 Dec 2015

I don't remember who you are. Are you quite recent to the BKs and their Knowledge™ ? How aware of our historical research work are you?

Obviously, this is not the first Apocalypse movie Hollywood has made. The USA is pre-dominately a Judeo-Christian society, its symbolism is heavily rooted in Biblical stories. BK-Xs like you have been getting excited by them, and reading all sort of stuff into them, since at least the 1980s. It's all just part of the human tendency called "confirmational bias" which has us look for signs which confirm our beliefs (and ignore evidence which contradict them). Within BKs (from Lekhraj Kirpalani's to my own experience as a BK), I would say this goes as far as to become a mania.
mania

an excessive enthusiasm or desire; an obsession.

mental illness marked by periods of great excitement or euphoria, delusions, and overactivity.

Firstly, if you are not aware of our historical research, get up to speed about how many failed predictions of Destruction Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BK leaders have made; WWII, 1950, 1976, 1986, 1986 to 1996, Year 2000 etc. We are *way* beyond when it was supposed to be over and the world being recreated as heaven on earth, so please be warned and do not make important life decisions based on their nonsense and dishonesty.

They have been preaching, exciting and exploiting people on the basis of "Destruction in two to three years" since the 1930s. Christians have been doing for 2000 years.

Secondly, I cannot agree with you on the supposition that
the 'Baba' of the Murlis (be he God or not) would actually tell mutants to love and support humans even if they are doomed and that is a big difference

In the West, the BK leaders have been whitewashing their god spirit for years now removing the more crazy, prejudiced nonsense spouted in the Sakar Murlis and manipulating them to appear more New Age and benign. They also hide this from recent BKs. In fact, the "revision" of them has been going on for more than 30 years.

The only thing that remains constant is his ... and I would argue it is Lekhraj Kirpalani's ... hatred for an "impure" humanity and a desire that it be destroyed or annihilated in a vast, genocidal bloodbath; especially the most recent incarnations that he refers to as being like "flies or insects" on the dungheap of life, or the young children he refers to as "scorpions and snakes". The "one or two birthers" by BK lore.

If you look back to the very early days, and remember there was no God Shiva until after 1955, the BKs had an incredibly myoptic world view. Their world consisted of the cloisters of Hyderabad and family homes and a small community of bhaibands and their Amils "subjects" in which Lekhraj Kirpalani was their god and the community leader, the mukhi, was the devil; and the pair locked in a battle of control. Remember there was no God Shiva, only God Prajapati Brahma the incarnation of Krishna; and the mukhi was the devil Kansa his eternal opponent.

Image

Unfortunately, the BKs have so confused their past with revisions, and are so dishnest about it, we do not know exactly how the faith evolved. Perhaps Lekhraj Kirpalani did have visions of something, or perhaps he was just later inspired by newreels of WWII. We don't know for sure. But we can be sure that he imaged the conflict within his tiny community as both the Mahabharata War, and as the root cause of the WWII.

Now, what do we make of that?

Lekhraj Kirpalani literally believed he was god (Krishna), surrounded by his gopi women followers, and that the objections to his indulgences with them was the manifestation of Hindu mythology - the mythologies which were largely all that he knew of the world and through which he perceived the world - and the end of all things ... Mahabharata War, Mahakala, Kalki, Vinash etc.

Surely it was evident of some kind of manic delusion, starting with a massive delusion of self-grandeur (often a symptom of schizophrenia) ... and, surely, you (and we all as BKs) just became a little infected by that manic delusion?

Within BKism, "Drama" has no personality. It has no intelligence. It can give no signs. Therefore, I have to say no. It's just a movie rooted in Biblical mythology, produced by a Judeo-Christian-Capitalist industry with a good nose for profit.

Generations of BKs have been fooled by such stuff into giving away their lives and fortunes. Don't join them wasting yours. The BK leaders are just parasites on society. They will keep their religion-business going for as long as it feeds, clothes and shelters them modifying as necessary to do so. They will encourage on individuals such as yourself with these kind of beliefs and encourage BKs on to encourage each other with such irrational excitements.

Keep away from them and their dishonesties and their mental illnesses.
A delusion of grandeur is the fixed, false belief that one possesses superior qualities such as genius, fame, omnipotence, or wealth. It is most often a symptom of schizophrenia, but can also be a symptom found in psychotic or bipolar disorders, as well as dementia (such as Alzheimer’s).

People with a delusion of grandeur often have the conviction of having some great but unrecognized talent or insight. They may also believe they have made some important discovery that others don’t understand or appreciate.

Less commonly, the individual may have the delusion of having a special relationship with a prominent person (such as being an adviser to the President). Or the person may believe that actually are a very prominent and important person, in which case the actual person may be regarded as an imposter.

Grandiose delusions may have religious content, such as the person believes he or she has received a special message from God or another deity.

Sometimes, in popular language, this disorder may be known as “megalomania,” but is more accurately referred to as narcissistic personality disorder if it is a core component of a person’s personality and identity. In such disorders, the person has a greatly out-of-proportion sense of their own worth and value in the world. People with this issue can also sometimes have a taste for the finer, more extravagant things in life.
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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post11 Dec 2015

Hello ex-l.

We have talked before. The BKs changed my life in an irreversible way, opening the door for caring about having a relationship with God, checking tha games of my ego, the way I view sexuality and having an awareness of eternity. So, whether I end up a full-blown BK or reject Gyan as "one more nice but inaccurate belief system", I will always feel a connection to the path and the family (members of which have done a lot for me) but also this site because it's the only place (probably) where people talk about "BK-ism" actually knowing about what it is and at the same time, not blindly accepting it for sentimental reasons.

RE: the movie, the BK-related stuff is impressive! Something about Apocalypse having historically been mentioned as "Ram" or "Krishna," Destruction of this world with the Chosen Ones who remain building a New World, I think even the four Horsemen has been connected to 'Baba'. So, for anyone who's heard/read of a lot of Murlis, the trailer totally 'clicks.'

Re: the other stuff, I have struggled with believing Gyan, and I am at a point where I find it improbable to be accurate. I won't say impossible, but certainly improbable. I want to say, though, that some of you guys, especially you, have been as "extreme" as some BKs. I mean, Dadi Janki being a money-seeking gangster? She's a 100 years old who still, essentially, works. Also, some of the things like Kirpalani being regarded as God, I dunno, is it necessarily a proof of anything? Some times "it was in the Drama" is not a tragic explanation. Maybe that was what they needed to believe then to stay there and prepare themselves for the next kind of effort. Who knows? Shouldn't the arguments against BK-ism be grounded on absolute things and not estimations or assumptions?

I think that even in the Sakar Murlis, the 'Shrimat' is to be kind to everyone and not cause sorrow. And that's a sure thing on the Avyakt Murlis.

Also, (many alsos in this post) I think many people have become happy by meditating (call it connection to God or something else), listening to the Murlis, going to Maduban, doing service and observing the Maryadas. Some others are not happy because they might just be interested in going to the Golden Age. But that shows a deeper problem, and just staying away from the BKs won't solve it. What I mean is, Gyan being true or not, words of God, or not, BK-ism is not more or less good or bad than any other things in life. It's how you approach it. Sure, for me it matters, but that's just me. Many people call themselves Christians and are happy even if they are not *exactly* Christians because they might approve same-sex marriage. Are their beliefs based on facts? Maybe not, but they're happy.

If I may ask, why did you become a BK? What was your experience with Dadi Janki? Did you experience what is described in the Murlis as, "If you *know* Alpha, you'll know the rest and won't ask question". I paraphrased, of course. Personally, I haven't quite, so I still ask questions (at least I ask myself). Did you ever feel that, "I now know Him as He is" and is that why you dedicated the years you did?

Having heard a lot of metaphysical stuff, I have a theory: a certain entity entered Kirpalani's body (like channeling - see Bashar, Abraham Hicks etc), and then Kirpalani became what some would call an ascended master, whom Dadi Gulzar channels. And the Being people experience in meditation is *actually* God. It goes on but I said enough for now and, obviously, it might be totally off.
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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post12 Dec 2015

Friend wrote: RE: the movie, the BK-related stuff is impressive! Something about Apocalypse having historically been mentioned as "Ram" or "Krishna," Destruction of this world with the Chosen Ones who remain building a New World, I think even the four Horsemen has been connected to 'Baba.' So, for anyone who's heard/read of a lot of Murlis, the trailer totally 'clicks.

Pop culture is built on what is popular and commonly related to. Is it "BK-related stuff” as you say? Or do the BK try to relate to what went before, which others, who’ve ”heard of” those things, might be impressed by when their ”little knowledge” is filled in?

There is a technique used by ”psychics’ called ‘time shifting” where they take ownership of what the client offers and then claim that they saw it first e.g.
    "Is there a man with red hair? Something red? Red something, a red car perhaps? ...”
    - Well, my boss had a red car
    ”Yes that’s it, and he carried a brief case... ”
    - He used a laptop, not sure about any case.
    That's probably it, a laptop. He was a mentor to you.
    - Well, no, we didn’t get on.
    That’s what you think but he had great hopes for you and watched over your career/
    - He fired me.
    That was for your own good. He did not want to to, Do you see that now?
    - Look, the boss with the red car was someone I only worked with for a short time, I think we both knew it wouldn’t last I think you are reading too much into that.
    It was more significant for your life direction than you realise.
    - Well, maybe.
It's too easy to create an overlay of undisprovable assertions, e.g. there are those who say God, deities, mythologies are referring to extra terrestrial guardians. That is no less disprovable than saying they were mutants as per the X-Men film. Modern takes on ancient stories. In fact, a friend of mine wrote a novel retelling the Epic of Gilgamesh as exactly that, ETs and mutants, and it is quite easy to suspend disbelief when it's a well-told story.

To say the mythologies, religions and pop culture references suit explanations that each is a ”memorial” of yogis who connected with God (through Brahma) last ”Kalpa” is not disprovable - except by its own terms in relation to hard evidence. And there’s much hard evidence that disproves Gyan. So what does that say about the self-proclaimed authority (author) of the Gyan?

Then, if "feelgood” and "doing no harm to anyone" is the proof of value, then the "lotus eaters" who desert their posts are the most enlightened ones, surely? Many BKs are ”lotus eaters”.

No. Of all the examples above - mutants, ETs, cosmic BK yogis through repetitious kalpas, rather than saying one is the reality and the others are the reflections or misinterpretations, it's the fact that there are common themes, cultural references and permutations to be found that is, IMO, by far the more interesting phenomenon. The flip side of that phenomenon is the way the same thing or event is interpreted differently by different people. Personal subjectivity, cultural subjectivity, the species subjectivity.

You may have heard of a little series of stories called ”Star Wars”? The writer/director George Lucas approached the great scholar Joseph Campbell to work with him and to advise him on his first scripts to bring it more into line with Campbell’s thesis of the "universal myth”. Campbell is an anthropologist and mythologist who is studied by many writers, advertising creatives and screenwriters. He (his work) is one reason these archetypes are even more blatantly prevalent these days, and they are more prevalent because it works, and they are profitable. And religions have built their empires and businesses on this fact that certain archetypes evoke powerful responses.

To put it simply, Campbell says we think ”anthropocentrically” - i.e. we see the universe from a human perspective and just as humans have certain propensities physiologically that makes us human, so too we have inbuilt propensities psychologically - we think in terms of common archetypes and the many manifestations of core archetypes are seen reflected in the cultures and stories of human societies.

So, where Hellenic philosophers and Christian thinkers mention the ”Alpha & Omega” (few terms used in Bkisms are original) and connecting to the source to understand the rest of creation - that is religion or theology.

Campbell’s studies are, on the other hand, one aspect of what I’d call meta-religion or meta-psychology.

Which approach liberates people and which approach binds them ? (Pun intended. Check the etymology of "religion” - Latin: to bind, to tie - and then look at the word ”paradise” - literally para- "beyond”, -dise ”, binds, boundaries, enclosure, ties”) The irony, or cynical cosmic joke here, is that religions ask the devotees to bind themselves to the religion’ss precepts then when they die they will have paradise!

His work was immediately following, informed by and informing of, the evolution of psychology, the new paradigms of Freud and Jung, the latter in particular, and their successors, i.e. our subjective, species-based way of patterning, of making sense of the world and finding meaning, needs to be understood to be able to be utilised appropriately and for the best. Philosophical names for this way of seeing, that may make my point clear, are Epistomology, Phenomenology and Ontology (how do we know what we know? Is reality to be taken as it presents to us as humans and does our language shape our conceptions? What is the nature of ”being”).

In terms of ‘eastern philosophy’ this is all actually closer to what esoteric Buddhism understands, Dzog-Chen in particular, which parallels the new physics (there are no ”things’ only ”events”) rather than Vedanta or Islam (where Lekhraj is 'rooted' - pun intended!).

The BK Gyan and the Marvel X-Men view of the world are as equally valid and as grounded in truth as Norse mythology or Siberian Shamanism.

Image

"Brahma promised the old world would end and Ram Raj would be established".

”Odin vowed to purge the ice giants"

Well, I don’t see any ice giants around
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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post12 Dec 2015

Agreed ... Gyan is everywhere.

and

Under the mask of Gyan there is agyan, confusion, manipulation, self-appraisal, deception, cheating in the Brahmakumaris :D.
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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post12 Dec 2015

In a way, I am thinking that the X-Men movie is actually a bit more like *our* version of BKism than the BKs' version ... "a god like being in a massive ego trip, who claims to be all sorts of other gods of the past, and wants to destroy humankind and civilisation".

Which make us the super heroes, and the BKs the slaves of that human hating, destructive being.

And we know who always wins in the long run ...
Friend wrote:I mean, Dadi Janki being a money-seeking gangster? She's a 100 years old who still, essentially, works ... Shouldn't the arguments against BK-ism be grounded on absolute things and not estimations or assumptions?

Janki Kirpalani never did a real days' work in her life. She went from her Father, to her husband and then left him to be looked after by Lekhraj Kirpalani. I am trying to remember if I ever saw her doing any work at all, but I cannot. Not even cooking and cleaning in the centre. I don't call just chatting to people "work".

"Gangster" is not a word I use often, although I do liken the structure of "Kirpalani Klan" to a mafias. They are more just con artists, or confidence tricksters. But if you look at the Italian American mafia, their bosses are in their 90s too (the famous John Franzese is 98). It's typical of their generation these days.

Please understand that 'liken the structure' of Kirpalani Klan to the mafias' structure is not the same as saying they carry out the same crimes. I can explain if you don't understand that.

I would say that our arguments against BK-ism are most certainly grounded on the most "absolute things" ... like the real version of the history, the documented crimes, failed predictions, money making etc.

If there were to have claimed their wonders/penetrating wisdom just came from some channeled "higher being" from the moon of Uranus, then I would not have the same extent of objection to them. It's their confusion of their god spirit, presumably the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani, with the "one god of all" which I think of as their worse vanity or crime, and typical of their and Lekhraj Kirpalani's grandiosity.

So what if 10,000s of people feeling better sitting doing nothing about anything. Is that a good thing to feel good about?

Doesn't it all smack of subjectivism ... narcissism ... ego-centricity to me? I mean, what's a life worth that "all about me and my feelings"?

Imagine in they had taken their multi-millions, and 100,000s of adherents, and instead of grabbing land and building vanity projects upon them ... put all that money and energy to good use? Imagine if instead of beating young girls over the head every morning with the most boring, repetitive and uninspired "scripture" (the Sakar Murlis), they had encouraged them to invest their minds into become doctors and nurses, or teachers and engineers?

So what is BKism ... another salve for the "worried well"? The poor tormented middle classes whose greatest concern are their "feelings", or how to escape an unwanted husband?

How many young girls or women did Lekhraj Kirpalani or the BKs rescue from a life of sweeping **** in some awful backstreet slum?

BKism is just another branch, or let's say brand, of another bigger religion called "Me-ism".
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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post12 Dec 2015

because.parmeshwar wrote:Agreed ... Gyan is everywhere.

The BKs have a title for their god spirit which is "The One who Does, and Does through Others" (approx - Kaliyankakahar, I think). It could also be "The One who Deceives, and Deceives through Others" too,

Thank Odin for purging the Ice Giants though. Surely it's an absolute fact that Ice Giant don't exist, therefore Odin must!

I am obviously joking here but I want to make a serious point. It's a key element of BKism that "everything is a memorial of them and this time". This goes right back to the beginning of their cult during the Om Mandli days when Lekhraj Kirpalani, in his confusion, thought his self to be Krishna/Vishnu and - literally - WWII as a reflection of the conflict happening in this tiny jati (caste).

Stop for a moment, please, and re-consider that.

An uneducated man, who had become very rich but never increased his education, came into conflict with the head of his community because he removed his married daughter from the head man's house and left her baby behind, call himself god and the head man the devil ... somehow, to his inflamed mind, all the troubles of WWII (which went on to kill more than 80 million and was supposed to de Destruction) were being cause by him. And then he even went on to write to all of the "military marshalls" of the day encouraging them to invoke martial law, and carry out "scorched earth" tactics to kill off humanity.

Now, those are the hard facts of what happened.

How on earth can you re-interpret that as "having to happen for the greater good", friend ... seriously?

Yes, BKism does makes you feel trippy and high for a while, it's true. But then you will drop back down and for the rest of your life you will face the grind of all it; the best highs you will then get is when you push it to others. But at least if you behave, they will let you hang out at their luxury retreats for nothing from within which you will be able to om in comfort ignoring the "cries of your devotees" outside suffering.
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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post12 Dec 2015

(approx - Kaliyankakahar, I think).

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Re: Gyan everywhere

Post12 Dec 2015

ex-l wrote:Lekhraj Kirpalani, in his confusion, thought his self to be Krishna/Vishnu and - literally - WWII as a reflection of the conflict happening in this tiny jati (caste).

Stop for a moment, please, and re-consider that.

Friend, before you think we are defaming or placing value judgements for the sake of debate, I suggest you accept that most of us here are trying to be objective realists.

Mental illness is a concept based on what is ”normal”, the 90-95% of us in the middle of the bell curve. It is not a designation that, by any means, excludes a person from all kinds of talents and abilities. Many bipolar people are very charismatic for example. I give you the NSW Minister for Mental Health in an article in today’s newspaper about her Father and attitudes to mental health.
Pru Goward wrote:"But the great story is that actually you can ... people can live well with mental illness. In fact, sometimes mental illness gives you insights and gifts that people at the normal end of the spectrum don't have.”

http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/y ... 3u5yISMfG/

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