Evolution

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Mr Green

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Post16 Dec 2006

ANDREY!!!

EVOLUTION THEORY AND THE EVOLVEMENT OF SOCIETY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!!
Sorry for shouting :lol:.
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celtiggyan

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Post16 Dec 2006

It's not so much survival of the fittest - more 'Form fits function'. For example, maybe a bird born has a longer beak and it can reach deeper into a flower to get nectar. Then it's offspring will have similar advantages in life and so on until a new species arises. This over millions of years and so is hard to comprehend. We can see this happen with bacteria more quickly though. Just stop taking anti-biotics half way through the course and see how bacteria become quickly immune. Same with insects and insectisides etc. It's true all right.

C.
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andrey

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Post18 Dec 2006

Why should the nature create a beak of a bird that cannot fit to the blossom of the flower? Nature is eternal. When was it created? Even the theory of Darwin cannot tell. I believe Darwin has himself stated somewhere in his work that ... if one can suppose that through natural selection such a complicated organ as the eye could develop (evolve) then it would be very brave supposition. He has also based all his judgement and this big theory only on the observing of some birds with different beaks eating different fruits. That is very little base for such a profound, general conclusion.

Nature tries to find balance. The theory of evolution will have no end. Things would evolve and evolve ... and why should they start evolving at all ... What was wrong in the beginning? Or the other way the end of his theory would be creation of such a perfect species as mentioned.

Now it seems so absurd this theory. Yes, I used to believe it too
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john

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Darwinism Revised

Post18 Dec 2006

In a British TV program 'The trouble with Athesism', there was an interesting part were one Professor or Dr Schwartz(spelling) was talking about animals evolving or changing much quicker than was originally thought.
He was saying something along the lines of hidden genes could allow animals to change in a much shorter time than Darwins original theory suggests.

So could we have dinosaurs evolving into different species over hundreds of years rather than millions....
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celtiggyan

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Post19 Dec 2006

Andrey wrote:Nature tries to find balance. The theory of evolution will have no end. Things would evolve and evolve ... and why should they start evolving at all ... What was wrong in the beginning? Or the other way the end of his theory would be creation of such a perfect species as mentioned. Now it seems so absurd this theory. Yes, I used to believe it too

When you reproduce you contribute to evolution by mixing your genes and if you think about it, it is a great way of getting improvements without the need for a divine creator. Even within the human species some races have evolved differently - colour, size etc. Certain Black men from Africa are faster runners for instance. It's not PC of course to dwell on such matters in today's world. There is not a need in this world to do anything other than spread your genes - that's it, that is the untold truth of existance, your species must survive.

In a cruel way, if you killed all people with certtain defective genes then, yes, you would wipe out the disease but the cruelty of biology is balanced by the caring nature of most human beings - though let's not forget the Nazis and what they were trying - a super race. In actual fact they were completely wrong, the more mixture of races a person has the better chance of survival they have. Pedigree cats look lovely but they are weaker than their moggy relations. Go forth and multiply ...

C.
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john

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Post19 Dec 2006

So according to Baba, explain to us how the dinosaurs mutate so quickly from being T Rex to being geckos ...

Hidden genes.
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andrey

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Post26 Dec 2006

Dear Brother celtiggyan,

You were talking about mixturity so if there is mixturity then initially there should be purity. So, when was this purity, before mixturity.

Hitler tries to do the task (to create a pure nation) that is performed by the Supreme Soul through the highest deity Shankar, of destroying all the races, nations, religions etc. So that what would remain is only the one kingdom of unity, only one religion, only one nation etc., what is new, what is never destroyed and can never be destroyed - the eternal deity religion. And He does in a nonviolent way.

We don’t slowly evolve ... big revolution happens. The world becomes small, different, nothing of this world remains, nothing that we now can see through these eyes will remain. Everything will be completely new. Now the world is completely old. The difference is of day and night (big). If we are here only to procreate, what do we need arms of the body for, eyes on the head, ears, mouth, speech, why do we have to think, why do we sing, dance, draw etc. Better procreate and die.

There is definitely change, but it happens quickly ... it is said it does not take God long to change human beings into deities. A deity means a human being with soul-consciousness. Procreation through the body is body-consciousness, it is attributed to only this body and only this life (birth). Baba speaks about mouth-born creation. Whoever takes The Knowledge from us – we are like parents to him to sustain them for many, many births throughout the whole cycle. We are like ancestors for the whole world, who take direct knowledge from God.

Otherwise all human beings, animals, plants, nature exist eternally and repeat. Souls are eternal ... the body is not eternal, but the matter ... the elements it is consisted of are also eternal ... and they move in their cycle too ... now these elements have also become tamopradhan (impure) and they will become satopradhan (pure) again with the practice of soul-consciousness. If we listen to One only, we can make our body ever healthy. The atmosphere of the mind that has no thoughts, that is in incorporeal stage of soul-consiousness – seed form stage has such an effect that the body rejuvenates.

The conceptions of The Cycle and of evolution are definitely different.

Dear Mr. Green.

... righteous rule will be of one, the unrighteous rule is of many. It happens within society and within the BK family. Intitially, when Brahma and Saraswati were there, they were responsible only. They took all the decisions about everything. They were the controllers of the Yagya. Later, after they departed, there is disintegration; literature wing, IT wing ... decisions are taken collectively. But what is strange is when one person themself cannot take a decision, what is the logic that many people like this, who themselves on their own cannot take the decision, when they gather they, by miracle, become capable to take the correct decision.
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ex-l

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Post26 Dec 2006

Andrey wrote:But what is strange is when one person themself cannot take a decision, what is the logic that many people like this, who themselves on their own cannot take the decision, when they gather they, by miracle, become capable to take the correct decision.

Is this last bit sarcasm ... or are you suggesting that "by miracle" - or influence of The One - they individual BK "Wings" do make correct decisions? It is not clear.
john wrote:So according to Baba, explain to us how the dinosaurs mutate so quickly from being T Rex to being geckos ...

Hidden genes.

I shall always view geckos with an additional bit of respect - to ensure my good fortune at the start of the Copper Age - from now on.
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paulkershaw

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Post17 Apr 2007

Andrey wrote:If the Evolution theory were true where will we end up.

If evolution is true we're all soon going to end up with sports cars strapped to our bums and Nokia cellphones instead of ears. Make mine a yellow porsche wouldya!
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ex-l

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Re: Evolution

Post25 Feb 2010

A BK author on Evolution ... I have no discussion to offer on this at present.
Gyayaram wrote:I have a book published by the Brahma Kumaris in Mount Abu. According to that book, Eternal World Drama, these are views of scientists against the evolution theory.

    1. Charles Darwin. Not one change of species into another is on record. We can not prove that a single species has changed into another. (Darwin Charles, My life and letters) He confessed towards the end of his life.

    2. Thomas Huxley. Evolution was not an established theory but a tentative hypothesis,an extremely valuable and even probable hypothesis,but a hypothesis nonetheless.

    3. Professor Theodosius Dobzhansky. It would be wrong to say that the biological theory of evolution has gained universal acceptance among the biologists or even among geneticists.

    4. Dr Austin H Clark. There is no evidence which would show man developing step by step from lower forms of life. There is nothing to show that man was in any way connected to monkeys. He appears suddenly and in substantially same form as he is today. There are no such things as missing links. There is not the slightest evidence that any one of the major groups arose from any other. Each is a special animal complex related more or less closely to all the rest, and appearing therefore as a special and distinct creation.

    5. Professor J Doyle. Since we cannot prove the evolution of a single organism, it is intellectual presumption to talk of the evolution of the universe in a thousand million years.

    6. Dr D'Arcy Thompson. In the study of evolution and in our attempts to trace the descent of the animal kingdom, four score years study of the origin of species, has had an unlooked for and disappointing result. It has not taught us how birds descended from reptiles, mammals from other quadrupeds, quadrupeds from fishes, nor vertebrates from the invertebrate stock. The invertebrates themselves involve the self same difficulties,so that we do not know the origin of the echinoderms, of the molluscs, of the coelenterates,nor one group of protozoa from another. This failure to solve the cardinal problems of evolutionary biology is a curious thing.

    7. A mere hypothesis says, Professor G.A.Kerkut.

    8. No reliable evidence says, John T Bonner.

    9. Theory suffers from grave defects, says Professor Albert Fleishman.

    10. Utterly destitute of proof, says Sir William Dawson.

    11. No scientist can prove it, says Dr Mulliken
There are many more scientists listed who say about the same thing.

I am happy in my ignorant belief that we have always been,just like God has always been.We are afterall sparks of the Divine. Thanks for reading. God bless.
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celtiggyan

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Re: Evolution

Post25 Feb 2010

The BKs are no different to many other religions in that their belief in the channelled knowledge blinkers them to Scientific observations around them.

The truth is that we don't really know who this Baba entity is. I see Dadi Gulzar with Baba's soul within her but for me I do not recognize or see a God. I see some form of entity that is benevolant and that calls itself the Father. To him, we are his children since he started the religion! He wants to take care of us.

I don't think The Knowledge of the physical world as spoken by this Soul is right however. For starters, he speaks of the 4 elements - earth, fire water and air. This idea is almost cave-man in simplicity and has been rejected 100s of years ago since the discovery of the periodic table of elements.

Interesting that Islam tells us that there are two beings that God created. First he created Jinns (out of fire) and then Humans out of earth. The Jinn we are told have been around longer than humans and often pretend to be ghosts of relatives (maybe even Gods!). In times of old, I can understand an entity saying that fire and earth etc is what we are made of since no science existed for us to know otherwise and simple analogies are necessary when dealing with primitive cultures.

Now we have Science you would think an entity would use modern Scientific terminology to give us confidence. Instead we are told the same old things. It's not right ...

C.
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ex-l

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Re: Evolution

Post26 Feb 2010

Thanks. If there are spooks or Jinns involved in Brahma Kumaris as they claim, in a way the early Brahma Kumari community was a very "primitive culture" and still is fundament at its core. There were some very worldly and educated Sindis ... but they were not in Lekhraj Kirpalani's camp.

One of the other issues that always throws Western BKs, and it make one wonder at how intelligent Western BKs can become 'bewitched' and sucked in, is the old Dinosaur debate which keeps followers busy. We should not be distracted so much by the science but look instead as the psychology. How can one keep going know how crazy the whole 5,000 Years Cycle is.

Obviously, to the unworldly, uneducated and mainly women and child Sindis that Lekhraj Kirpalani surrounded himself, it was a non-issue. They knew nothing about them. They knew pretty much nothing about anything outside of their homes. They had never seen or read anything. They did not exist and they were all mesmerized by Lekhraj Kirpalani and the psychic effects going on around them.

According to the 'semi-official' version, dinosaurs were other species that mutated because of a minor "Destruction" of the BKs nuclear powered heavenly society 2,500 years ago and that they were all killed off soon after. How a heavenly elephant or salamander turns into a Tyrannosaurus Rex, I have no idea.

One then leading Western BK Julian Boles told me that about 2,500 years ago (start of the Copper Age according to them), Indians had advanced high powered weapons, some flying machines and went about killing them all!?! Fine, but how about all the underwater dinosaurs, I suppose they had submarines too, and all the microscope or insects in amber or the fossil record from that time?

Well, I am happy to announce that a BK follower has finally worked out a scientific theory to explain the existence of dinosaurs ... or to make them non-exist in his mind. It reminds me of the argument a Christian once used saying that, "dinosaur bones were insert by Satan into rocks to confuse human beings".
a BK follower wrote:- how can you explain the existence of dinausaurs on earth long ago

No one has seen dinasaur. It is only their skeleton.

When earth transforms from this impure world to pure. the earth’s axis with relocate, as even scientist predict now. The plates and high temperature inside earth will make huge shapes of bones and that is called as dinosaur.

This is what he is talking about ...

Image
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desi_exbk

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Re: Evolution

Post26 Feb 2010

"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution" -Theodosius Dobzhansky (1973)

Anti-evolutionists fail to understand how natural selection operates. They fancy that all existing species were generated by supernatural fiat a few thousand years ago, pretty much as we find them today. But what is the sense of having as many as 2 or 3 million species living on earth? If natural selection is the main factor that brings evolution about, any number of species is understandable: natural selection does not work according to a foreordained plan, and species are produced not because they are needed for some purpose but simply because there is an environmental opportunity and genetic wherewithal to make them possible.

Was the Creator in a jocular mood when he made Psilopa petrolei for California oil fields and species of Drosophila to live exclusively on some body-parts of certain land crabs on only certain islands in the Caribbean? The organic diversity becomes, however, reasonable and understandable if the Creator has created the living world not by caprice but by evolution propelled by natural selection. It is wrong to hold creation and evolution as mutually exclusive alternatives.

I am a creationist and an evolutionist. Evolution is God’s, or Nature’s method of creation. Creation is not an event that happened in 4004 BC; it is a process that began some 10 billion years ago and is still under way.
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tete

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Re: Evolution

Post27 Feb 2010

Liberalism, atheism, male sexual exclusivity linked to IQ by Elizabeth Landau, CNN February 26, 2010

The IQ differences, while statistically significant, are not stunning — on the order of 6 to 11 points — and the data should not be used to stereotype or make assumptions about people, experts say. But they show how certain patterns of identifying with particular ideologies develop, and how some people’s behaviors come to be. [...]

The reasoning is that sexual exclusivity in men, liberalism and atheism all go against what would be expected given humans’ evolutionary past. In other words, none of these traits would have benefited our early human ancestors, but higher intelligence may be associated with them.

“The adoption of some evolutionarily novel ideas makes some sense in terms of moving the species forward,” said George Washington University leadership professor James Bailey, who was not involved in the study. “It also makes perfect sense that more intelligent people — people with, sort of, more intellectual firepower — are likely to be the ones to do that.”

Bailey also said that these preferences may stem from a desire to show superiority or elitism, which also has to do with IQ. In fact, aligning oneself with “unconventional” philosophies such as liberalism or atheism may be “ways to communicate to everyone that you’re pretty smart,” he said. [...]

The study takes the American view of liberal vs. conservative. It defines “liberal” in terms of concern for genetically nonrelated people and support for private resources that help those people. It does not look at other factors that play into American political beliefs, such as abortion, gun control and gay rights.

“Liberals are more likely to be concerned about total strangers; conservatives are likely to be concerned with people they associate with,” he said.
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tete

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Re: Evolution

Post02 Mar 2010

2012??? How about February 27th, 2010!
Chilean Quake Likely Shifted Earth’s Axis, NASA Scientist Says
March 01, 2010, 2:28 PM EST

By Alex Morales

March 1 (Bloomberg) -- The earthquake that killed more than 700 people in Chile on Feb. 27 probably shifted the Earth’s axis and shortened the day, a National Aeronautics and Space Administration scientist said.

Earthquakes can involve shifting hundreds of kilometers of rock by several meters, changing the distribution of mass on the planet. This affects the Earth’s rotation, said Richard Gross, a geophysicist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, who uses a computer model to calculate the effects.


Follow the link to read more: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-0 ... -says.html
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