The Power of Blogs

First up, I don't want to get involved too much in the PBK BK conflict.

The term "advanced knowledge" has been used a fair bit. As with the spiritual process of knowledge > experience > realisation, another viewpoint may say - knowledge> understanding > wisdom. It strikes me that, a soul who has advanced knowledge may still go spiritual cattle (sheep) rustling at BK events. However, a soul with advanced understanding may not and a soul with advanced wisdom is certainly not likely to get involved in such things.

I am not questioning PBK knowledge or its source here, though I could ask if Virendra Dev Dixit encourages this or what Virendra Dev Dixit thinks of this behaviour. Also, is this the sort of thing that GOD does? you see, My more elevated moments tell me that it is not. There is no royalty/ self respect in converting souls, in this way at least. It is the Father who finds us, BKs have already been found by the Father, how can they be found again? Why would they want/ need to be?

If PBKs and BKs are much the same thing, it is surely not possible to convert one to the other. If you are doing this (converting BKs), then you are saying that you/ your group are in fact a separate entity all together. So what is it that separates PBKs from BKs? We can only have our cake and eat it for so long. It is not for me to judge what God does or who it is done through and am trying to keep an open mind.

Then there are the personal motives. As with any conflict, It may suit some peoples agenda to have conflict rather than harmony. Personal power trips etc. Once again, where is the royalty/self respect in that? In divide and rule? (Generalisation and not towards an individual). There is none. You could point to some of my posts and say the same, though I am likely to agree.

And, why should it bother the BKs if some of their members go off to another faction of BK-ism? BK Souls whose religion is that of peace. They are there to serve the souls of the world and influence others towards a more spiritual outlook/ awareness, if this allows souls to make progress, why should BKs be bothered?

And besides, you both have God on your side. Am I being led to believe that God is fighting with God's self again? I did not realise that this God dude was such a fool, but then again ... possessing God? Now that's a good one, next God will be floated on the stock exchange. Then again, we all already have shares in God, equally.

I understand that some of the Senior Sister really don't get on with each other

Really! You don't say? What a shock! Seriously, I have rarely met one that did not hate all the others.

Is it true that Sudesh was moved to Germany because she and Jayanti did not get on?

I heard it was Janki, but what's the difference?

My experience of Sudesh was good. She is a real yogi and gave me a big hug! I don't know what she is like in other situations, but with me she was very warm. On the other hand Jayanti seemed very kind to my face but then betrayed my wife and I. I did not know this thread was getting posts, so sorry if I have not been answering anyone's questions.

Bro. Arjun - I hope your efforts on this forum bear fruit, it was news to me when you told me that the "Advance Party" web site is not official PBK. So really you only have this web site to express yourself on? Unless you want to get beaten up that is. Thank you for your update on the violence, which is deplorable. Please report it here if it happens again. I understand your loyalty to the greater Brahmin family, but no family should tolerate violence. I have a zero tolerance policy on this issue - no violence - ever.

The term "advanced knowledge" has been used a fair bit. As with the spiritual process of knowledge> experience > realisation, another viewpoint may say- knowledge> understanding > wisdom.It strikes me that, a soul who has advanced knowledge may still go spiritual cattle (sheep) rustling at BK events. However, a soul with advanced understanding may not and a soul with advanced wisdom is certainly not likely to get involved in such things.

I agree. But I have already explained why it happens.

I am not questioning PBK knowledge or its source here, though I could ask if Veerendra Dev Dixit encourages this or what Veerendra Dev Dixit thinks of this behaviour.

I have explained this also in my earlier post that ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) does not encourage this kind of service and that is the reason that PBKs don't go to each and every function/gathering of the BKs to spread their message by distributing pamphlets. It is very rarely, when BKs are organizing a mega programme, where thousands of BKs (many of whom are oblivious about the corporeal role of ShivBaba) are expected to gather, and if there are enough PBKs in that city to form a small group to distribute pamphlets that they venture out to do that service, that too in accordance with the directions that they should distribute the pamphlets quite outside the venue of the programme.

Also, is this the sort of thing that GOD does? you see, My more elevated moments tell me that it is not.

But ShivBaba has said several times in the Murlis published by the BKs that we should give message to our Brothers who have lost their way. That is the reason the BKs go to each and every Hindu temple, school etc. to give message. In that case they should also stop doing service in the temples.

There is no royalty/ self respect in converting souls, in this way at least. It is the Father who finds us, BKs have already been found by the Father, how can they be found again? Why would they want/ need to be?

I agree that there is no self respect in converting souls and PBKs do not aim to convert any BK. But there is no harm in giving message to anyone. And ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has given directions to the PBKs that at the most a PBK should try to contact a BK three times to give message. If a BK does not show any interest in spite of making three efforts, he should be left to himself. When the appropriate time comes, he/she would automatically come attracted to ShivBaba/His family.

I myself have hardly tried to contact any BK/ex-BK member of this forum or the exbkchat forum to prosetylize. Whatever I have to tell, I generally tell through this forum, that too mostly on being asked to tell something.

If the BKs have already found the Father, then why are they giving publicity only to Dadis throughout the world. They have even stopped giving publicity to Brahma Baba, who gave a motherly sustenance to the BKs once upon a time.

Brahmins are called 'Dwij', i.e. twice born even from Hindu point of view. When they undergo the thread ceremony, they get the sacred thread consisting of three strands. But when they get married, they get a thread consisting of six strands. When the BKs know only about one of the three personalities of Trimurti, how can they claim to be complete Brahmins? It is only when they get the complete knowledge of Trimurti that they can become complete Brahmins.

(to be continued)

I myself have hardly tried to contact any BK/ex-BK member of this forum or the exbkchat forum to prosetylize. Whatever I have to tell, I generally tell through this forum, that too mostly on being asked to tell something(to be continued)

Yes, this is very true. I have asked Arjunbhai many questions from my own curiosity and out of respect for the PBKs way of living and practising their path. He has never tried to convert me, either previously when I was a BK, or now that I am an ex-BK. In fact the only times I have been offered information about where I could learn the advanced knowledge was when I asked about it. That even was not by Bro. Arjun, but by other PBKs. Also, when I told those PBKs (in private messages) that I did not want to take the advanced course they very politely said that it was only an offer made because of the interest I had shown, and that they would not pester me with proselytizing. They kept their promise. I have said else where that my learning about the PBKs was my first step to doubting the honesty of the BKs, and I still respect the PBKs for that, although I am happy being as I am. I look forward to Bro. Arjun's - "to be continued", when he has the time. All of this information was hidden from me when I was a BK, and I am finding it fascinating to read now.

My experience of Sudesh was good. She is a real yogi and gave me a big hug! I don't know what she is like in other situations, but with me she was very warm.

I always thought Sudesh was very genuine. The clash if it is true, it doesn't surprise me. Even from as far back as 1985 I could see one of the other Senior Sisters mentioned was, how can I put it 'not quite right in the head'.

The clash is true and tensions exist between them still as they do between Janki and Big Mohini in america.

(Continued from my previous post, dated 30.01.07)

If PBKs and BKs are much the same thing, it is surely not possible to convert one to the other. If you are doing this (converting BKs), then you are saying that you/ your group are in fact a separate entity all together. So what is it that separates PBKs from BKs? We can only have our cake and eat it for so long. It is not for me to judge what God does or who it is done through and am trying to keep an open mind.

BKs and PBKs are not different as such.

The basic difference is with regard to the corporeal medium of God Shiv. They believe God Shiv along with Brahma's subtle body has been entering into the body of Gulzar Dadiji every year on pre-determined dates during the annual season. While the PBKs believe that God Shiv is still on this Earth. He has only changed the place of service from the body of Brahma Baba (primarily based at Mt. Abu) to the body of Shankar (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, primarily based at Kampil, Farrukhabad District, Uttar Pradesh) since 1969, i.e. since the demise of Brahma Baba.

Based on this primary difference, there is some difference between the Advanced Knowledge (of PBKs) and the primary knowledge (of BKs); there is some difference between the method of Yoga with PBKs remembering Shiv through the body of Shankar and BKs remembering Shiv mostly as a point of light in Paramdham or in the body of subtle bodied Brahma Baba; there is no difference in dharana; the difference in methods of service has already been described.

Although apparently there appears to be no difference between the BKs and PBKs, there is a difference in the sanskars of the BKs and PBKs. PBKs believe only in 'one' Shiv through one corporeal medium, whereas the devotion of BKs is scattered in Shiv, Brahma, Mama and numberwise senior BKs.

PBKs have displayed the courage of listening to Advanced Knowledge, questioning the BK teachers with regard to knowledge and have courageously faced the expulsion from BK centers/BK fraternity. Based on this courage, they have the sanskars of becoming kings from the Copper Age onwards. In comparison, the BKs prefer to accept the stagnant knowledge given by the BK teachers, are content in keeping the BK administration happy by not raising any questions, do not gather enough courage to listen to the Advanced Knowledge or ask about it to the BK teachers. Based on this timidness, the BKs have the sanskars of becoming queens from the Copper Age onwards.

The BKs are good at dharana and seva while the PBKs are good at knowledge and remembrance.

So, basic difference between the BKs and PBKs is with regard to their sanskars. ShivBaba has not changed the place of service to convert BKs into PBKs, but to cause a merger of the sanskars of both BKs and PBKs. BKs have to imbibe the good qualities of PBKs and the PBKs have to imbibe the good qualities of BKs.

And besides, you both have God on your side. Am I being led to believe that God is fighting with God's self again? I did not realise that this God dude was such a fool, but then again ... possessing God? Now that's a good one, next God will be floated on the stock exchange. Then again, we all already have shares in God, equally.

I repeat, God has not come to 'divide and rule' but to unite. He wants the merger of the sanskars of BKs and PBKs. While he is pointing out the shortcomings of BKs, he scolds the PBKs even more in the clarification Murlis for various reasons. He has not even spared the soul who is believed to be playing the role of Prajapita and Jagdamba in the Advance Party. But the Advanced Knowledge is meant primarily to transform the PBKs and then the BKs and then the whole world.

Regards,
On Godly Service,
Arjun

The clash is true and tensions exist between them still as they do between Janki and Big Mohini in america

However much the BKs may present a picture of united house to the outside world and however much unitedly they may face/fight the PBKs/ex-BKs, the fact remains that the BKs are a divided house with the entire world having been divided into various continents, countries, zones, sub-zones, centers, sub-centers, Gita pathshalas etc. The teachers/ students of one zone/center do not generally step into the territories of other zones/centers. I cannot speak about the BK centers in foreign countries, but during my long stint as a BK and even as a PBK I have practically seen how there is a major clash of sanskars between the BK teachers of various centers in various cities of India. Many do not see eye-to-eye. I will not name them, but the BKs know better than me that this problem does persist and that is why a senior Dadi Ratanmohini has been the in-charge of BK Teachers besides her role as the zonal-in-charge of Rajasthan zone in India. Most of her time is consumed in solving the quarrels between various BK teachers.

The entire BK world knows that BK teachers were transferred for a short period on a mass scale only once in the entire history of Yagya (early 1990s I suppose) probably on the directions of Avyakt BapDada and they also know the huge problems that they faced due to the attachment of BK teachers for their individual centers and due to the clash of their sanskars. After that temporary transfer, most of the BK teachers were back to their 'own' centers. Only a few detached BK teachers stayed on at the new centers. I was a BK then, and know how the Dadi-in-charge of my center was so reluctant in shifting temporarily to another center. She was convinced by so many senior and junior BKs to agree to the shifting for a few days for name sake just to satisfy BapDada and Dadis and also to save her own respect.

Similar to the BKs, the clash of sanskars is prevalent among the surrendered PBK Sisters also, but the difference is that most of them willingly obey the directions of 'one' ShivBaba and some of them reluctantly obey the directions. But since they have surrendered their life to 'one' ShivBaba, He is responsible to take care of them in every manner, whatever their nature or sanskars may be.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Very interesting to observe how the topic: "power of blogs", is developing into sub-topics. PBK-BK "conflict", and differences with-in both organizations are being brought-up. I have been reading posts which indicate that this is also happening in other related groups (PPBK, Vishnu Party, ect.).

It is my point of view that everything has a karmic (cause-effect) reason of being. In this case, I feel that this forum is becoming a valuable support for those who are loosing faith in BK/PBK/ect. Many times the detonator is indeed the visible the lack of unity with-in "the family" (all those who are mouth born progeny of Brahma, or otherwise described as: all those influenced by any point in a "Sakar Murli").

As this trend expands among the older members, or ex-members of these groups, they will probably come here for support. At the moment, this is mainly happening in the West.

I recall many Murli points that hinted at the final shift in BK affairs and how the changes would come from the foreign countries or the "double foreigners" (outside India).

If those browsing over the forum wish, they can come and contribute to this valuable place.

Thank you in advance.

In the night.

Very interesting to observe how the topic: "power of blogs", is developing into sub-topics. PBK-BK "conflict", and differences within both organizations are being brought-up. I have been reading posts which indicate that this is also happening in other related groups (PPBK, Vishnu Party, ect.). ... If those browsing over the forum wish, they can come and contribute to this valuable place.

So come and contribute to this valuable place, you'll find a warm welcome awaits you.