Medium wins channeling right

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ex-l

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Medium wins channeling right

Post05 Feb 2007

A court case that bodes interesting for the PBK / BK divide.

Medium wins channeling right from 'The Guardian' newspaper June 9, 1997
Kate Connolly of The Guardian wrote:Vienna -- A medium and author has won the sole right to "contact" a 30,000-year-old spirit.

Judy Z. Knight, an American, claims to have close spiritual ties with Ramtha, who she says has relayed messages to her since 1978. But in September 1992, she claims, her psychic channel became "disturbed" by Judith Ravell of Berlin, who says she started contacting Ramtha about that time. The legal battle has been dragged through Austria's courts for three years.

The country's supreme court has awarded copyright to Knight and ordered Ravell to drop her claim to be in contact with Ramtha. Ravell has held several seminars and festivals in Salzburg at which she has passed on what she claims to be the spirit's messages.

Ramtha, said to be the leader of the sunken continent of Atlantis, is much sought after in esoteric circles in Europe and the United States. Knight secured her U.S. copyright in the late 1970s after claiming that he told her she was the only medium with right of access to him.

The court told Ravell that her psychic interruption over the past five years had left Knight "hanging in spiritual limbo," and it ordered Ravell to pay $800 in damages. Knight's lawyers are looking for thousands more. Ramtha was unavailable for comment.
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tinydot

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Post05 Feb 2007

$800 ... That's not worth it. But in any case, she (Judy) got full time of the spirit and that is more awarding.
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proy

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post05 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote:A court case that bodes interesting for the PBK / BK divide.

Thanks for this ex-l. I did not know about it, although I have heard of other channeling rights disputes. I think it was in 1996 that a coucillor in West Lothian convened a meeting in Bathgate to discuss all the UFO sightings that had been happening in Bathgate and in Livingstone. The meeting was scheduled to be shown on TV. Word went out that somebody in the UFO group had said they were now chanelling "The Council of Nine" as represented by "Tom". Phyllis Schlemmer, who wrote the book, "The Only Planet of Choice", which is a collection of channelings of the council of nine, via "Tom" through Phyllis (yeah, I know, reminds you of something in Diamond Hall), got to hear of this claim. Phyllis Schlemmer turned up at the meeting, coming all the way from the USA, and insisted that she was told by Tom that she would be his only channel, and that there would be no more channeling from Tom in the future. When you see the BKs in this channeling context it all gets very flaky indeed. So do you think the BKs will stop beating up PBKs and take them to court instead? Fascinating. Is BapDada available for comment? Or should I say Shiva?

If the BKs have legal copyright to channel Shiva, then is it the BKWSU who hold the right or is it Dadi Gulzar? If the copyright goes legally to an individual, and that individual dies, what then. Maybe it passes on to the next of kin like book rights do, then runs out altogether after 50 years and anyone can publish it. I expect they are working hard with their pals at the UN to start World War Three by then though, so it will all be academic.
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ex-l

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post06 Feb 2007

proy wrote:If the BKs have legal copyright to channel Shiva, then is it the BKWSU who hold the right or is it Dadi Gulzar? If the copyright goes legally to an individual, and that individual dies, what then. Maybe it passes on to the next of kin like book rights do, then runs out altogether after 50 years and anyone can publish it. I expect they are working hard with their pals at the UN to start World War Three by then though, so it will all be academic.

Legally you are correct. India practises law in pretty much the same way as the rest of the world. (http://copyright.gov.in/handbook.htm).

If Gulzar has not assigned the rights over to the BKWSU ... which my guess is she has not ... then the rights to the Murlis will pass to her Estate. If she does not have a Will, which I doubt she has as she does not own anything, she will die "intestate" and all her "property", e.g. the copyrights on the Avyakt Murlis/Vanis will pass to her biological family and be in their ownership for 60 years. As she has no descendant family, copyrights would pass to her nearest biological family. If they are signed over to the BKWSU, they will be in the control of the Trustees ... who ever they are. Trustees cannot be the administrators, so they will be lower rank BKs than the name and fame Dadis.

In a sense, I am sorry we are discussing this in public as the BKWSU will read it, pee their collective pants, and make Gulzar sign on the dotted line this afternoon. We could make an offer to her family to buy the copyrights ... it would probably still be possible. Just convince them she was not in a fit state of mind (would not be hard), that the BKWSU had excerted undue pressure and demand the Murlis/Vani.

The bottomline is ... they should be copylefted - put into the public domain - not copyrighted - and invested in personal ownership. If their source is what the BKWSU claims, the Murlis/Vanis should not be owned and controlled by humans. And this, more than anything, shows you where the BKWSU heads are at ... ownership.

Note that BK Simon Blandford in London, part of the BKWSU IT team (server Bhai), writes on the Wikipedia that the Murlis "... are not verifable by public since they are internal documents".

So does that mean an academic turning up at a BK Raja Yoga center and asking to see the various editions of revised Murlis will be refused access now? There you have the new party line ...
tinydot wrote:$800 ... That's not worth it. But in any case, she (Judy) got full time of the spirit and that is more awarding.

But did the spirit agree too? Is it bound by the courts decision not to appear elsewhere?

Cuckoo ...
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abrahma kumar

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post06 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote:The bottomline is ... they should be copylefted - put into the public domain - not copyrighted - and invested in personal ownership. If their source is what the BKWSU claims, the Murlis/Vanis should not be owned and controlled by humans. And this, more than anything, shows you where the BKWSU heads are at ... ownership.

I agree wholeheartedly
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proy

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post06 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote:So does that mean an academic turning up at a BK Raja Yoga center and asking to see the various editions of revised Murlis will be refused access now? There you have the new party line ...

How about tracing the descendants of Patanjali and finding out who owns the copyright on Raja Yoga? :)
ex-l wrote:But did the spirit agree too? Is it bound by the courts decision not to appear elsewhere?

As far as I can see the compensation was awarded for interference in the channeling, and the distress caused to J. Z. Knight. The paltry $800 was maybe the courts way of saying "Don't bother us with this flaky nonsense again." Unless she was awarded costs, which must have been considerable after 3 years in court. Knight is pretty tight on copyright, all her workshop exercises are copyrighted, although they are often versions of similar exercises demonstrated by other people, e.g. Stuart Wilde does similar exercises. It is also quite difficult to get any information about the Ramtha teachings on the internet, you have to go to a workshop or buy a book. Actually I find the teachings very illuminating. They are basically self-soveriegnty. Real self sovereignty, not the "Baba says" stuff the BKs peddle. I have an old book by Ram Dass in which he talks a lot about someone called Joya who sounds just like Judy Knight. Maybe Ram Dass, real name Richard Alpert, changed her name in the book, which is called Grist for the Mill. Ram Dass is living in Hawaii now and has a web site, so maybe I will email him and ask. I met him once, and he was very friendly, he is probably too old now to care about being sued.

I think that both Ramtha and Shiva are real entities, and that it is possible for anyone with the right training and/or abilities to channel them. The "disturbance" that Judy Knight got her compensation for would be if I chose to channel them in front of hundreds of people instead of in my own bedroom, and, of course, started making money out of it.

A Sister-in-Charge of a BK centre in the south of England told me that the BKs are training up 3 or 4 mediums to replace Gulzar if necessary. She told me they are being trained in New York. Technically speaking Gulzar and Knight are mediums rather than channelers if they do not know what has been said through them. They would be in a trance and not aware of what is going on. I think Gulzar is wholly a medium and Judy is a bit of both, Channeler and medium. Judy is actually much more impressive than Gulzar. She strides about or sits smoking a pipe, talking straight to the audience or to individuals. As I have friends in Bellingham, which is close to Yelm in Washington state where the Ramtha headquarters is, I may go over there and check it out for myself.

More later ...
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ex-l

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post06 Feb 2007

proy wrote:A Sister-in-Charge of a BK centre in the south of England told me that the BKs are training up 3 or 4 mediums to replace Gulzar if necessary. She told me they are being trained in New York.

How fascinating ... Indian or Western? This forum is more interesting than your average center morning class ever was!

I wonder how the BKWSU trains their mediums or channels? Why is none of this documented and written down? Who does the training?
    • Does BapDada pop in for a little while doing a trial runs to see how the Sister fits?
    • Or do they just start by channelling lesser souls and then working up to the big boy?
    • May be starting with some of the Advance Party, a few ex-Dadis and then Mama ...?
They are bound to have to be virgins, so that counts out the Western Sisters. (***** that I am to suggest such a thing ...). ;-)
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proy

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post06 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote:How fascinating ... Indian or Western?

I wish I had thought to ask that, but I don't know.
ex-l wrote:This forum is more interesting than your average center morning class ever was!

Well, I don't fall asleep in it anyway!
ex-l wrote:I wonder how the BKWSU trains their mediums or channels? Why is none of this documented and written down? Who does the training?
    • Does BapDada pop in for a little while doing a trial runs to see how the Sister fits?
    • Or do they just start by channelling lesser souls and then working up to the big boy?
    • May be starting with some of the Advance Party, a few ex-Dadis and then Mama ...?

Good questions, any BKs care to answer please?
ex-l wrote:They are bound to have to be virgins, so that counts out the Western Sisters. (***** that I am to suggest such a thing ...). ;-)

Yeah, how could you ex-l. 8)
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john

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post06 Feb 2007

I wonder how the BKWSU trains their mediums or channels? Why is none of this documented and written down? Who does the training?

I would have quessed they learnt how to do this from the early days of the Yagya, when everyone was trancing at the drop of a hat, but it's just a guess, I have absolutely no information on this kind of thing.

Does anyone have any more info?
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ex-l

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post07 Feb 2007

proy wrote:
ex-l wrote:They are bound to have to be virgins, so that counts out the Western Sisters. (***** that I am to suggest such a thing ...). ;-)

Yeah, how could you ex-l. 8)

You know, if the BKWSU were REALLY smart - which I don't given them credit for being - they would chose known non-Indian, non-Hindi speaking individuals to channel Shiva. That would be really good evidence that SOMETHING was going on.

Indeed, if the BKWSU were REALLY cool - which I don't given them credit for being - they would chose "equal opportunity" channellers, e.g.; one black, one white, one Indian, one male and one realy good looking Oriental token (ex-) gay guy just like on Star Trek ... and a right old slut, there are a few hanging on to the sides of the BKWSU that have been around a bit. It would be good for their PR and marketing, "prove their beliefs", be a good example of God's redemptive powers ... as well as attracting whole new untapped markets. Pourquoi non?

In fact, can we not complain to the Equal Opportunity Commission if they DO NOT advertize internationaly and accept all sexes, creeds, colors and age? Is it an Indian Nationalist or Feminist Movement?

But they will probably just "sacrifice" some young little Indian virgins on Shiva's altar pyre ... just like in the old days. Let's face it, they have broken the Shrimat in the Murli already, so what does it matter?
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proy

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post07 Feb 2007

ex-l wrote: ... and a right old slut, there are a few hanging on to the sides of the BKWSU that have been around a bit.

So you met her too ex-l? Its a small world. She is a good laugh though. :P
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ex-l

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post04 Mar 2007

Her?

I was talking about a "him" actually. Tut-tut for a bit of nasty sexism there, Proy ... not all the BK boys are white as driven snow you know.

OK. To put a serious twist onto this tamopradhan thread;
    what quantifiable difference is there between a BK that has had sex and a BK that has not?
    Are we/they always going to be a second division BK?
    Are we/they kidding themselves to pretend otherwise?

    Especially where the choice and training of mediums is considered.
A strange question for an organization that sells itself for being "The Family Path" ... but has become ruled by virgin crones.
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proy

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Re: Medium wins channeling right

Post05 Mar 2007

ex-l wrote:Especially where the choice and training of mediums is considered. A strange question for an organization that sells itself for being "The Family Path" ... but has become ruled by virgin crones.

I wonder if they will go as far as this "Ramtha® is a registered trademark of JZ Knight." which was on the bottom of an email I received about Ramtha products today, by a strange co-incidence since this thread is also being brought back to life today. Will we expect to see, "Shiva® is a registered trademark of BKWSU."

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