mr green wrote:Some people believe all intelligent thought came about from primitive man accidently eating mind expanding substances !!! I know you disapprove of recreational drug use ex-l, but this doesn't mean that even those substances are used by some in positive ways.
I know the theory ... Terence McKenna, is not it? It could be true ... it could be equivalent to the "we all came from monkeys having babies with space aliens" theory. But then that could ALSO could be equally true ... So, genuinely, I have no idea. I have no idea at all now.
Actually, my position on drugs (and most things) is that anyone is allowed to do anything as long as it does not hurt others
AND they are willing to pay for and put right any damage they do to society. Part of getting older is realising that no one else listens to what one says and so there is little point in having a point of view.
My problem with the 60s idealism projected by the stoners ... is the widespread and extreme criminal activity it creates without paying for. They want to waste themselves THEN have society pay for it. I guess I take a sort of Adam Smith approach to the entire industry.
But, on the other hand, the mental illnesses of straight society are FAR more damaging and create FAR greater crimes that stoners could ever imagine out of their worst acid trip. Alcohol is a terrible example of this and I think it should be up there with Class A barbiturates. Many prescribed drugs, e.g. tranquillisers ... "mother's little helpers" etc are just as bad and identical in nature. The big drugs companies are just another mafia-like cartel.
I am very conscious about the social/state control and conspiracy angles to permitted intoxicants. It is proven that the States internationally dabble in illegal drugs dealing (e.g. heroin, cocaine etc) and prefer alcohol and tobacco as their drugs of choice.
Ayahuasca, because it is so nauseous, is highly unlikely to ever become either recreational or commercialised as even marijuana has, but it does seem to have some similarity to the artificially produced DMT. I could see medicines being developed from it but reckon if they challenge sales of Prozac etc, they will probably be bought out and suppressed.
I just wonder WHAT the spiritual influences it has are and at what LEVEL they are. I am genuinely interested to know if it can help mental illness, or illness of the spirit. I am a great believer in herbal remedies, have experienced benefit from them and accept that their are mind-body-spirit-nature connections.
Although I would never smoke/take or encourage smoking/taking dope, I could conceivably be interested to experiment with a training in Ayahuascan Shamanism in the proper and legal setting. I would just like to know where I am likely to get to BEFORE I get there. The space-time these shamens are talking about appears to me to be entirely amiss or outside of the BK model ... your comments welcome.
My opinion of external stimulants is not "BK" ( I gave up everything including drink and coffee
BEFORE I become a BK), nor inexperienced prudism, nor moral, nor legal, nor even health related. Personally, on the basis of a very limited experience, I just never found them to be that profound and, mostly, just to be boring, negative or irritating. Downers rather than uppers. I hated not being able to say, "OK, I get that. That is enough ... stop now I want to get off". And I still think that about coffee now ... so you know where I am coming now !!!
What proportion of BKs do you think are taking mind altering drugs, e.g. anti-depressives, SSRIs etc? Has there been any scientific research done to prove that BK Raja Yoga "CURES" mental illness etc
As an aside, did you read in the newspapers recently that the American Intelligence or Armed forces wanted to/or invested in creating drugs that turned enemy soldiers into horny homosexuals!!! Make you wonder ...