Does religion reach out to the rich or to the poor?

One can define rich-poor as either rich-poor in material terms or rich-poor in moral spiritual terms.

In our modern society, I think "poor" means both. Maybe the question should be would you like to be rich in money but have no moral values, rich in money and rich in moral values, poor in money but high moral values, or poor in money with poor moral values. In that aspect where does the BKWSU aim for? Well, the Murlis do say that the poor are the best. After all they have neither money to lose and they have no moral values to lose, hence God speaks to these folks the clearest as they have everything to gain. Those who are rich in money and rich in moral values, well, they do not need God, do they ?

Anyway, here's another recent news article about Dalits overcoming the caste system: BBC News, Mass Dalit conversions in Mumbai.

Anyone know the percentage of Dalits ("untouchables") existing within the BKWSU? And of those in the "management position" of the BKWSU, how many of them are Dalits?

In the Gita, is it mentioned what the caste of Arjun?

Thank you bansy. Absolutely monstrous. Very, very well done! To paraphrase a snippet from the Holy Bible "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24) And if one cares to, read an article here (section entitled: `A camel through the eye of a needle' ... )

bansy, this question has pre-occupied me for many an hour whilst a student with the BKWSU. It was occasioned by a 'chance' encounter and conversation with a bookseller on a busy pavement sometime back during which it was brought to my attention that the choice to engage myself in the development and fulfillment of life-style born out of soul consciousness could, to some, be seen as a sort of pastime that only the economically well off could afford. bansy, I kid you not when i say to you that i was stunned.

The man went on to describe the circumstances, preoccupations and attitudes of mind he witnessed amongst those for whose benefit his charitable work was being done and I was even further dismayed. Scared too! I knew that the man could not be right but his arguments and the cases he cited seemed worthy of attention. Anyway ...

One of Shiv Baba's titles is Lord of the Poor; and the poor are often referred to with commendation in the BKWSU Sakar Murli; sometimes the poor are even twinned with the hunchbacked. But whether mentioned separately or together they are always included in the Godly task. But what if the very fact of being economically disadvantaged precludes one from the pursuit of spiritual matters?! Quite frankly the possibility that this may be the case frightens me.

When our television sets are aglare with images of the starving, emaciated bodies skeletally thin. Eyes bulging out of sockets. Development arrested and retarded due to malnutrition. And, if there is any energy spare for tears - what a criminal waste that seems under the circumstances! - that too is but a shortlived expression of anguish, because the soul has not even got the energy to wail at the supposed injustice of its circumstances!

Meanwhile back in the jungle: "Those who are rich in money and rich in moral values, well, they do not need God, do they ?

A reminder of the question: Anyone know the percentage of Dalits ("untouchables") existing within the BKWSU? And of those in the "management position" of the BKWSU, how many of them are Dalits?

OS

But what if the very fact of being economically disadvantaged precludes one from the pursuit of spiritual matters?!

From Confucius analects, Confucious most ardent pupil was Yan Hui. Yan Hui died at 32 and Confucious wept so much for the out pouring of love that whilst the other pupils had stopped crying, the Master was still crying. Yan Hui whose thick black hair had all turned grey by the age of 29 was, according to Confucious, not able to even show his full potential as he was constantly trapped in poverty. Yet, it was his virtuosity and purity that outshone all other pupils, though Yan Hui knew nothing about himself.

I am not sure exactly what is meant by the "beggary" years of the BKWSU if the Yagya members had roofs over their heads and beds, although little to eat. I thought even beggars did not have a roof.

Maybe (whatever the BKWSU history) in the beginning much money (by Lekhraj Kirpalani) was given to the Yagya but was this needed in order to set up or was it an easy way out to get something set up? Was this the direction of Shiva or was it Lekhraj Kirpalani's own reasoning to use up whatever money? After all, Lekhraj Kirpalani did not know what was happening to him in the beginning. We may never know, so just conveniently put it down to "Drama". It is for folks to accept such drama or not.

And what of the BKWSU today? Why the necessity of spending on flowers, etc and rent on centres when a daily gathering in a local park could do just fine? Would it be more appealing for folks if the BKWSU was seen talking in Hyde Park, or as an example, is the luxurious environment of the Oxford Retreat Centre a humble introduction to spirituality? (Not been but can imagine from the photos).

Double foreigners, in India, are conveniently shuffled around in BK vehicles. Sometimes little children come knocking on the windows begging for money or to sell something when you wait at the traffic lights. Well, as a Double Foreigner, a few rupees would not hurt the pocket but it was against the BKWSU to give out money to the street beggars as they would spend it on worthless and viceful things, and thus your karma was linked to their vices.

Well, I don't know, I was more positive as I thought maybe that grubby young 8 year old with his rupees would be delighted and go and buy some fruit and bring a bag home to share with his 6 or so other siblings that would last a week. Just to bring a smile would even suffice. It was a shameful experience to keep the car windows up. Then again, you could always put those rupees in the donation boxes in the centres, of course.

Abek, thanks for the camel-through-the-eye needle link. It's a good read.