Defining Angels

I wanted to start a thread on the definition of what we understand to be Angels as it - or they - are a much used metaphor within the BKWSU theology. The image that the BKWSU have adopted is distinctly Neo-Classical, angels in the mode of Victorian and Christian representation of Classical Greek and Roman iconography. A projection onto the senior Sisters in white saris.

My feeling is that this came from the first generation of Westerners coming into Gyan and going, " Oh, Dadi ... look at this! You look like and angel, you are an angel! " and then it was adopted. I asked in the BK forum when the iconography of angels entered the BK lore. If anyone else knows, I'd appreciate an answer.

I wanted to copy and paste a non-BKs theory about angels by way of a polemic. In truth, although I do not know, as a working theory it is not to far away from my own. You will see immediately the parallels to BKWSU in both the " incarnation of Shiva " story and the " Honeymoon Period " phenomenon.

Angelic entities seem to follow the same pattern in dealing with people. Known by different names; "Watchers" "Guardians" "Gatekeepers" their true nature is to keep humanity from progressing in any way ESPECIALLY in the area of mind power or knowledge of the 4th dimension/astral. They are like guards in a concentration camp. The "Watchtowers." To keep humanity in chains, enslaved and without power.

Those who are without and delve into the occult a little too deeply will often meet with unpleasant experiences (again, FEAR is used as a means of control). One way or another, those who are without are often deceived into relationships with angels. Of course there are variations, but here is what to look for - you will see this if you read anything about people's experiences:

The angelic entity intrudes. Most often the creature is uninvited and takes it upon itself to barge in on someone's psyche totally uninvited.

The entity uses love to lower the victim's defenses. This is done deliberately and masks the entity's true intentions. The victim (human beings are emotionally vulnerable - how many serious mistakes have been made at the mercy of our emotions) feels the "love" and is deceived into believing this is a positive visitor.

The entity never explains much or gives the victim any valuable knowledge. Most questions are not answered, if they are, they are in riddles or nonsense. Any information given is either incorrect or incomplete.

Often, the entity will make a statement that it is coming to warn the victim and/or humanity of "erring ways." This many times has to do with anything the entity deems as a threat to their total control, in most cases playing upon the ability for one to defend one's self; humanity's use of mind power for psychic self defense is EXTREMELY threatening to these alien predators as their main tool of control is through the mind; their worst worry is should humanity ever discover the truth and attain the same powers of the mind as they possess.

They preach a false concept of "peace" and "love" to disarm humanity and create a helpless/defenseless Earth. Their own convictions concerning this are made blatantly clear throughout the Christian bible where they are bringers of torture, suffering and death. The Book of Revelations / Apocalypse says it all.

The entity in many cases delivers negative prophesy. Most often, this predicts personal ruin, disaster for the victim, his/her loved ones or others who are close. The entity then offers false reassurance that it will remain with the victim through all of this, but does not lift a finger to stop it.

The entity in many cases, such as with ignorant (unknowing) New Age people, acts as a healer when channeled. As usual, no knowledge of any value is given and the healer as well as the patient remain cripples and are helpless without the entity's assistance, making them slaves.
I have dealt with these entities and they are anything but benevolent. They are bringers of death, misfortune and their victims of choice are childlike. People who get into angel magic are either extremely arrogant or their personal lives end up in disaster. One guy who was into this sort of thing was severly depressed and into drugs.

My feeling is that this came from the first generation of Westerners coming into Gyan and going, " Oh, Dadi ... look at this! You look like and angel, you are an angel! " and then it was adopted

The term "angelic" is used in the Avyakt Murlis (English translation) - starting from the very first one (21 January 1969), according to the original (first edition) 1969 Avyakt BapDada book .. which predates westerners coming into Gyan, I believe...

I wanted to copy and paste a non-BKs theory about angels by way of a polemic.

Source please?

My own beliefs and experiences do not resonate with this quote at all. I prefer the BK definition of angel - ie human beings in complete perfect form, working in unison as benefactors of all of humanity. Angels are about selfless love and compassion. Personally I see Brahma Baba as my guardian angel - having met him in the white Subtle Region many years before i encountered the BKs - he gave me at that time an experience of Dharamraj, extended visions of the world cycle taking place, and an expereince of the Golden Age, along with other advice and direction. This is the "angelic Brahma' described in the Avyakt Murlis - contrary to the passage quoted, great knowledge was given in a very concentrated and powerful form - you may question the accuracy of that knowledge, but you cannot prove it wrong (there were no dates or numbers, no words, only visual and experiential teachings)...

Still to this day, despite having left the BKs, I see BB as my guardian angel, or spiritual master (guru even) if you like - i don't believe everything he says in the Murlis by any means, not least because he enjoys "pulling the wool" over the children's eyes if he thinks it is for their own good. Lehkraj was a fallible human being like the rest of us, and still is far from perfect or complete in his knowledge - but the visions and experiences he gave me came, i believe from Shiva. That is the role of an angel - to channel divine energy to others and so help them. So my angel watches over me and helps me in day to day life. A great many other people experience a similar relationship with a guardian soul - are you saying they are all deluded?

Known by different names; "Watchers" "Guardians" "Gatekeepers" their true nature is to keep humanity from progressing in any way ESPECIALLY in the area of mind power or knowledge of the 4th dimension/astral.

As just described, my experience is directly contrary to this - BB opened my mind right up to the higher dimensions, and pointed me in the direction of Raja Yoga, which has transformed my life from fear-based to love-based, from miserable to joyful.

There does seem to be ample existance of a more malevolent species of "super-human" beings which some confuse with angels (and i am not talking about the Dadis here - at least not all of them...). They could be characterised as "fallen angels" - but to my mind they are a different thing entirely, not remotely "angelic". Read any dictionary - angels are associated with benevolence and love, not with manipulation, abuse, or other forms of negativity.

The quote sounds like it is talking of devilish or satanic demons - pan-like creatures - and indeed the Bible (not a credible source in my opinion, but nevertheless a useful, if distorted, compendium of myths and legends) mentions such creatures often. Any "love" or "peace" preached by such creatures is at best a weak and insincere form of these virtues - it may temporarily mislead the ignorant or unwary, but anyone who has experienced true divine love and peace, our natural state, will not be fooled. Evil can only prey upon fear and weakness.

So we are dealing here , i believe, with two varieties of "super-natural" beings:

Firstly the "guardian angels" - ascended spiritual masters, i.e. enlightened human souls, in subtle bodies (no wings - they are metaphorical!), watching over humanity, with love and benevolence - good wishes and blessings for all - there to help all of us if we only have the wit to reach out and ask for their help.

Secondly, a manipulative and predatory "alien" race - "dark angels" if you like - like the sub-human "reptilians" with supernatural powers, promoted by David Icke, the Annunaki (a.k.a. Jedi, or Nephilim) from Genesis - who come along and sieze control of humanity, building and controlling power structures based on fear and keeping people in ignorance ("divide and rule") - I believe this is what sparkal is referring to in his post on cycle - silver reptiles?. He seems to be suggesting these beings are the "warrior" race of the Silver Age. Their purpose in the drama is presumably to bring about the "fall of man" - to create religious and institutional power structures as prisons to enslave us, so we do not realise how much more powerful we humans are (in potential) than them.

So we have the good and the bad, perhaps symbolised in the Trimurti as Brahma (light, creative, master of spirit) and Shankar (dark, destructive, master of matter).. for life on earth, true enightenment and balance will be found in the centre (Vishnu) where there is a harmony of the spiritual and the material. Both good and evil are required to provide an experience for the soul, ie to make the drama interesting, a "play of joy and sorrow".

My feeling is that this came from the first generation of Westerners coming into Gyan and going, " Oh, Dadi ... look at this! You look like and angel, you are an angel! " and then it was adopted

The term "angelic" is used in the Avyakt Murlis (English translation) - starting from the very first one (21 January 1969), according to the original (first edition) 1969 Avyakt BapDada book .. which predates westerners coming into Gyan, I believe...

But it was not translated into English until sometimes after, what was the original Hindi? Avyakt? The best definition I can find for that ini ts traditional sense is " unmanifest ". I am sorry, I don't have the original reference to that quote and I avoided putting it in as the rest of site dived firmly into the " Christianity as a Jewish conspiracy to control Gentiles " waters. [ Although it did have some pretty good references as to how most of the references in the Biblical traditions had been stolen from other, earlier religions, e.g. Egyptian, Sumerian, Babylonian.

And so, if Brahma comes up good for you, what about the soul known as Shiva? His way would seem to fit fairly neatly into what was written, e,g, loved up Honeymoon Period, use of fear, meaningless predictions. I have no argument against there being different, higher or benign beings. It is a little strange to me that the mystics that founded the BKWSU did not chart all this stuff, other realms and spirit beings. In Gyan, there is no mention as to where they might even exist, the Subtle Regions only existing during the Confluence Age.

Is anyone aware of the works of Emanuel Swedenborg and his " Conversations with Angels " and experience of other worlds in a way that runs parallel with Spiritualism and the understanding of most indigenous religions, e.g. other realms for the dead, heavens and hells? The BK line is just one dies, and then goes straight into another 3 / 4 month foetus. As someone else raised, this does not even answer what happens when there are not enough feotuses to go around ...

Hi, I realized that the BKWSO, brainwashed us into thinking that serving others necessarily meant "bringing them to Baba's shop" ... proselytism. So, we turned into vendors, without even realizing it. We learnt some useful things, benefited from Gyan and Yoga, and wanted to share these new acquisitions with others. And we were, in fact, providing flesh for the monster (the sect) to eat.

People in distress, benefit from the presence of souls who maintain peace calm, caring altruistically with pure motives. Elevated vibes and good behaviour can soothe others and inspire them to change lifestyle, acquire some technique or learn a philosophy that can help them live a better life, cope with difficulties, etc ...

Recently, I have been a lot around hospitals due to the illness of a relative. Overall, it has been a positive experience. My stage has not always be extremely powerful and elevated but most of the time I managed to handle situations, change my mood, and consequently stir the atmosphere in a better direction. When we step aside and stop being caught in our selfish dramas, we can, in BK terms, let Baba's magic and vibes work. Drama also cooperates, everything falls into place!

I am grateful to God that I managed, gradually, to cease feeling compelled to promote the BKs and their agendas! It is a nice feeling of disentanglement, to see that I learned certain things and can practise them with good results, helping myself and others to feel better; be optimistic, remain detached and unshakable etc ... without being obsessed about converting anyone to the BK religion.

So, I was once again thinking about how the BKs tend to harness our positive energy and light, and use it for their own ends. You can only feel useful if you bring in new blood (and bucks!!).

The pressure to "advertise" for them, overtly or "incognito" (which is even worse), to recruit and the restlessness that comes from constantly looking for potential customers (euphemistically defined as "Baba's children, deity souls, cooperative souls"), is a terrible burden that makes it difficult for us to fly and to enjoy the positivity we are spreading, becoming a second nature. An interference. It poisons everything!

Do angels traditionally carry banners or labels, or are they allowed to be "freelance"?

Do angels traditionally carry banners or labels, or are they allowed to be "freelance"?

Very a propos.

Today I gave a Yoga class (Hatha) and a couple of people had strong experiences. One of the girls told me afterwards, "a couple of times throughout the practice I really felt like someone sent you to us today. Like you were an angel."

The experience occured without any BK banners, adoration of BB or following Shrimat, and it was once more a confirmation that doing service does not mean you have to give up your life and join a sect.

When I teach, I behave normally, I don't wear white, and I don't stare at anybody in the the eyes or on the forehead. Yet afterwards I feel light, blessed, and filled with grace. I am shining, inspired and abolutely lit up from within - just like an angel. So I know that a spiritual energy is working through me and it is not the one working for the BKs, because I am no longer BK.

I am an angel, I sit on a cloud and play with me harp.

Lovely .

Don't get excited Ray. Just as Brahma is a brand of beer, Harp is a brand of lager.

Talking of which, did anyone hear more about the story of some BKs threatening to sue Brahma Beer?

The whole thing of sitting on your butt believing that you are going to become an angel by sitting on your butt and saying "I am an angel ... I am an angel" is ridiculous.

But not as ridiculous as believing that you are the only angels ... and only real angels ... in the whole of creation and time, which is what the Brahma Kumaris tell their followers to believe. "You are becoming angels".

The BKs teach that only they are the real angels and all the images and visions that have been had by individuals all through time, all over the world and pictures in art and mythology are "memories" of the Brahma Kumaris at this time.

Doesn't that strike anyone else as one great, big, megalomaniac, self-importance for a bunch of uneducated spinsters?

I mean, if your grandmother went about telling people that, the doctor would have her on medication right away.

Don't get excited Ray. Just as Brahma is a brand of beer, Harp is a brand of lager.

That's pretty funny. Thanks for bringing us back to earth.

Doesn't that strike anyone else as one great, big, megalomaniac, self-importance for a bunch of uneducated spinsters?

That's their self-appointed higher order job. What else are they supposed to do with their time?

It's like a never ending Halloween party except everyone wants to be the angel and they don't know that The Day of the Dead is only once a year.

Do not forget also, that the way for the BKWSO to measure "angelity" of members is "how many people have you made like yourself" = how many customers have you brought in, how many more participants to the circus, the masquerade. No free entrance, though, at this ongoing Halloween party, membership costs money and sweat! Do they look as if they are having fun? Most of them don't.

Once the natural high of the " Honeymoon Period" wears off, the run is uphill, all made of prohibitions, so, what kind of party is that, with little internal development actually taking place, being scrutinized all the time by SS and peers, alien to the common people's world, exceptionally achieving external visibility? A life of pretense, boredom and mediocrity. Only fear of failing out there (returning to Kaliyug), feelings of inadequacy and not being able to " fit" anymore, plus the guilt and fear of the revenge of the guru, keep conditioned minds in such bog, not happiness, nor accomplishment!

alladin,

I was just thinking this afternoon about the theory you suggested in another thread. Along those lines, I'd like to add that the real angels are the new arrivals, fresh and full of enthusiasm at the beginning and then slowly the older BKs drain them of their energy in the name of service and "obedience." However, maybe it is because they have no energy left themselves and must take it from the newbies to come to life again.

I now understand what all the negative energy I was feeling was about. And it was that negativity that slowly but surely drained me too. If a person has no life force left in them, like vampires, they will feed off of others. They may not realize it especially because their heads are filled with so much nonsense, but essentially, I think you have a theory that is possible.

I can rise above ex-l's childish insults, because I am an angel.

It's a day of insults, it seems. So I'll second that.