BKs participating on this forum

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because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post09 Jun 2013

moreclearernow wrote:I am not here to promote a religion and I am just sharing my "independent" views about BKs just like many of the members do here in line with the Forum's quorum.

He is here to only pass nonjudgemental and illogical statements in favour of BKs (though he himself is not a complete BK) as ex-l said, he is our time waster and, in my opinion, need not to reply at all unless he comes out with fair and logical talks. (I have done the same when he started messaging me on my persona email ID).

He was banned before as "cleaernow" and now he call himself "moreclearernow" .
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post09 Jun 2013

The 5000 years and dinosaur issue raises serious questions about the credibility of the BK leaders but it is not the most serious problem. The more serious problems are their lack of transparency and accountability, and so on. Their exploitation of vulnerable individuals and their effect upon individuals whose lives their have wasted and families they have split up.

The world has evolved beyond the state of 1930s Sind. Even great nations, which the BKs would call ignorant and impure, have stopped to apologize and compensation for their crimes carried out in the past. When will the pure and divine BKs do so?

Never, probably.
... in line with the Forum's quorum.

I understand a "quorum" to be the minimum number of members of a group necessary to make decision for the whole, so I have no idea what you are talking about ... except I do. It's just another twist and turn against what you have been explained.

Your account clearernow was deactivated so that you had to go back, read who and what this forum was for and about, and agree to those codes/terms. In addition, I explained to you the difference between the heading for the website and the purpose of this forum, and how it came about.

This is the problem with individuals such as you. It is your individual conduct rather than your faith or adherence that is the problem. If you are told something, even made to read it and 'click to agree' with it ... and then continue to do the opposite and twist and argue and cause a burden you will get booted off; not for your BKness but for stubbornness and stupidity.

Unfortunately, as much as you might want to separate 5,000 Year Cycles, Dinosaurs at the time of Moses (there is no mention of them in the Bible), Dadi Worship, and all the other crazy stuff ... it *IS* BKism.

The rest are just facades and the marketing campaigns which the BKs call "service" ... way of the BKs to push their real agenda.

Unfortunately, until the BKs remove the impurities from their drug, resolve the problems in their equation, and make sure their cult causes no harm to any individual or family, the best thing to do is quarantine them.

If you have really been honest, and you spent several hours of every 365 days of 5 years going to Amrit Vela and Morning Class and doing service, you know how central and deeply embedded all the craziness is; and you've been too deeply indoctrinated and enculted.

I am sorry but attempts at distraction such as "taking what is beneficial to you and ignoring the rest" etc is just a typical BK response/yukti. We've heard it before, we even did it out. Try, "willing suspect your disbelief" too ... that was another one.
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pawan_kr

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post09 Jun 2013

moreclearnow wrote:It has nothing to do with defending anyone.

OK, I understood your point. you want to state that BKism is mixture of negatives and positives, and one should take positives and leave negatives. BUT this method of adopting knowledge involves risks for those who can not differentiate between positives and negatives. Its like sucking sugar from sugar coated poison. You are a intelligent person with science background you can manage it, not all.
The only problem is that whenever anyone talks positive about BKs

Fishermen use a fish hook for catching fishes. To lure fish they stick a live or dead bait at the end of hook. My perception as a fish is - stay away from hook because it is dangerous and yours is eat the bait and ignore the hook.

The positivity you see in BKism is just to lure innocent people. It is all taken from books which were written before the BKs.
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BK_Victim

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post09 Jun 2013

Sorry for late late response. I was getting some quote error which i could not get around earlier. I figured it out and fixed my text and am able to post now.

littleo, You are not obligated to answer me, If you do not want to.

But I am obligated to find answers for the loss of my family member, broken family relations and loss of property, which is inflicted by BKWSU's lust for its expansion, money, property, fame, luxury and easy life for its leaders.
littleo wrote: No one is taught to break his family or treat them badly, it is some twisted understanding

In my case, my family BK (MFBK) did not treat us badly. He is just treating us that we are not his family and the BKWSU is his family. He had been serving BKWSU ~ 100% of time for more than a decade. He is either away from home most of the time OR, when he is at home, he is on the phone talking to BK teachers or other BKs. Hard to get him on the phone as well for family members. Doesn't that qualify to be termed as brain washing?

The only information flow (95%) to his brain is from BK teachers and other BKs. Yet, we (our family) lived in harmony because I took the responsibility of bread winning and fulfilling family members responsibilities (education, marriage, medical and so on ..) alone. The only reason we broke is because of the property grabbing in the name of donation to the BKWSU and its leaders and followers.

I have requested for MFBK teacher's or senior's contact information, so that I can talk to them and clarify and/or make a deal, on what we can and will donate/give and what we can not/will not. But I was absolutely denied to given their contact information. Mediators, who spoke to the BK teachers/Seniors, told me that they will accept property if my MFBK decides to give but they would not advise MFBK to go along with family members advice. Also they showed no interest in talking to me either. Put yourself in my shoes and feel it. Seriously, please ...

I am using mediators and are calling (forced) them to donate (or cut a deal to limit my losses) and they show no respect to listen/talk to me directly? This is mafia behavior by BKs.

I have no problem if MFBK earns and donates to BKWSU or anyone else for that matter. I also have no problem he serving 200% of his time to BKWSU instead of 100%. But, why does he fight with us to donate something that is not made from his sweat or blood? Why was he angry (I know they do not teach this, but they encourage BKs to use this tool for moments when they are grabbing properties) with me until the BKWSU gets away with what they want (donations), and did not think about the sweat and blood I put for building that property?

Why does the BKWSU not have any ethics to make a policy that they would not accept family money/property? And that they would not accept property donations that are causing family breakups?

So, at least in our case, MFBK had no twisted understanding of BKWSU and its leaders teachings.
littleo wrote:If someone is giving wrong teachings it is also his own misunderstanding and the blame should not extend to the teaching itself or others.

Well, MFBK is not in the classroom for an hour or two. He is in BKWSU possession full-time for more than a decade. If he is misunderstanding, does it not mean there is fundamentally something wrong in the BKWSU's teaching, its methodology or philosophy? And why do not those teachers/leaders come and help him so that he will not break up family relationships?

I am challenging them to step up now and fix my family relationship and step away from my property immediately.

Why do they teach him that they are his family and we are not?

Should I not blame BKWSU for this? Who calls MFBK to Mount Abu as many as 5 times a year for weeks at a stretch? They gave him a best bribe once.

Free one way air ticket to Mount Abu. Costs how much? 1,000 to 3,000 rupees? And that's their investment on him to grab property and his labor for over decade?
    littleo, again, you are not obligated to answer me. I am not targeting you personally.
    But any one who is not a fundamentalist BK can answer me.
    Well, I might even take an officially appointed fundamentalist by BKWSU as well.
I landed on this website, when every thing was shattering in our lives but we could not comprehend what and why this was happening and what to expect next? Because there is no information coming to us from our family BK as to what is going on that is controlling his strange behavior and thinking.

Once I discovered this site through a special effort and search on the internet, I had most of my questions answered about his behavior and what to expect next. I wish, I had known about this site many years ago.
but if he is not here to present the case .. .. I say that your family member should also be given the right to speak here if he wishes to.

Well, I introduced this site to him. I am not sure if he is even following. Even if he is following, he will not write here. Because he has no time to write here. He is busy serving to BKWSU 24 x 7 x 365. And, as far as anonymity is concerned, I might be anonymous to every one, but not for MFBK, from what I am writing here on these posts.
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littleo

PBK

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post09 Jun 2013

I am sorry. I have to ask you. I was not able to understand. You have separated with your partner?

Off, what you say is very sad and I don't have much what to tell. This grabbing of property is so, so wrong but you should not have illusions. I would say they should not take anything like this, but maybe they can. To go to court is so unpleasant.

If I could talk to some BK about the advices your partner is given I would be most happy. I doubt I would be able to. But I know for sure that for as long as you try to fight them, they consolidate.
I am challenging them to step up now and fix my family relationship

This is so, so sad, because it is so naive and unrealistic. A relationship need years to form and certainly years to fix if broken and I am not sure it can even be fixed. Experience says that the family proves to be more loyal in its support to the BK family member than the BKs. I cannot predict what will happen. If you ask me something concrete I could try to give you some advice or to tell you my opinion.

Yes, it is good the site is there for such cases. I think the problem comes when people are not able to talk to each other normally anymore. Whatever you have said here, if you tell that to your partner, he will also be moved. If you tell him your true feelings about what makes you sad, without blaming the BKs, yes, tell him that you feel lonely when he is not there, you feel it is not right if he takes something that is also yours, without asking you, without asking for your opinion. I don't know, just talk to him/her for as long as you feel you have said everything you have to say, then see his response.

I don't know ... I wish I was really able to solve such problems with a magic stick. I am not mocking the people here, but we are all amateurs in such very specific problems, they are not easy to solve. I don't know. Tell something more maybe.
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post09 Jun 2013

BK_Victim wrote:Who calls MFBK to Mount Abu as many as 5 times a year for weeks at a stretch? They gave him a best bribe once. Free one way air ticket to Mount Abu. Costs how much? 1,000 to 3,000 rupees? And that's their investment on him to grab property and his labor for over decade?

You are absolutely correct in that assumption.

If the BKs think there is money or property on the menu, or someone is useful to them, they will dangle the carrot and lay on the VIP treatment. That is their habit.

If it is not an invitation to Mount Abu ... which might come with special attention from their Dadis and Didis or even their whispering god BapDada ... it would be an invitation to their nearest luxurious retreat center. They even have 'deluxe' centers targeting upmarket individuals staffed by hand picked Kumaris.

They even tried it on me a couple of time ... I refused to go! You must have had the special invitation, Senior Sister attention, holy sweeties and so on?

You need to be careful with littleo. He's not a BK, he is a PBK ... a sort of sub-cult of the Brahma Kumaris in which he actually has no standing.

PBKs have their own interpretation of BKism and are outcast by the BKs whose leaders see the PBKs as the worst Maya ... PBKism is only likely to confuse matters even further, and give your family member fuel to use against you.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post10 Jun 2013

Little leo wrote:A relationship need years to form and certainly years to fix if broken and I am not sure it can even be fixed.

It depends on the relationship before the BKs. From teenage years I, typically, had difficult relations with my family, mainly with my parents.

When I became a BK they were actually glad at first as my lifestyle and routine was "cleaned up". Then, after only a week or two they realised what it meant - mainly because I, a typical adolescent, knew better than they did, and was zealously explaining the "truth" that I had discovered. We had years of 'estrangement" and my dad at one point threatened to cut me out of the family will (though he never did) due to the absurdity of what I was proclaiming and saying I would do with my life.

Years past before I gradually drifted out of mainstream BKism and then consciously made the decision and left it behind. I repaired my relationship with them and old friends etc almost immediately. At no time was any obstacle or difficulty placed by anyone but myself in that process of reconciliation. They showed nothing but love acceptance and goodwill.
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jann

friends or family of a BK

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post10 Jun 2013

Wake up! It is all in Murli. Messages even hidden goes to the mind. BKs only think they pick up the "good" and "positive" but hidden are the negatives which they also pick up which so called explains life which explains their behavior.
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post10 Jun 2013

Pink Panther wrote:Years past before I gradually drifted out of mainstream BKism and then consciously made the decision and left it behind. I repaired my relationship with them and old friends etc almost immediately. At no time was any obstacle or difficulty placed by anyone but myself in that process of reconciliation. They showed nothing but love acceptance and goodwill.

A very heartening story ... and I have heard others report the same. It is amazing how tolerant and accepting families are of their children in comparison to the Brahma Kumaris.
jann wrote:Wake up! It is all in Murli. Messages even hidden goes to the mind. BKs only think they pick up the "good" and "positive" but hidden are the negatives which they also pick up which so called explains life which explains their behavior.

Of course you are correct, Jann. There are 10,000 conscious and subliminal reinforcements going on all the in the BKWSU.

The yukti (BK strategy) moreclearernow is using, probably without realising it, is to encourage individuals to subject themselves to those conscious and subliminal influences under the guise of "only taking what you want" ... appealing to self-interest.

It's the old "cook a frog slowly" method.

The 'thought reform' indoctrination process is made even more effective by the use of trance meditation/hypnosis. Trance ... indoctrination class ... trance ... indoctrination class ... that is the BKs way. They soften the mind using trance and then implant their suggestions.

They don't even encourage questioning and understanding. Indeed one is censured for doing so. They encourage 'acceptance through repetition' ... "don't think, don't question, say Baba 10,000s time a day" kind of stuff.

BKs become good performers, good parrots that can repeat what they have heard, and increasingly they are borrowing sale talk from New Agey gurus and other religions as window dressing, but challenge them or take them out of their control and comfort zone and they fall apart.

That is why in India they avoid philosophical discussions with other sects and answering critics ... because they cannot. With the smallest amount of logic, their yuktis fall apart.
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littleo

PBK

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post12 Jun 2013

Pink Panther wrote:It depends on the relationship before the BKs. From teenage years I, typically, had difficult relations with my family, mainly with my parents.

When I became a BK they were actually glad at first as my lifestyle and routine was "cleaned up". Then, after only a week or two they realised what it meant - mainly because I, a typical adolescent, knew better than they did, and was zealously explaining the "truth" that I had discovered. We had years of 'estrangement" and my dad at one point threatened to cut me out of the family will (though he never did) due to the absurdity of what I was proclaiming and saying I would do with my life.

Years past before I gradually drifted out of mainstream BKism and then consciously made the decision and left it behind. I repaired my relationship with them and old friends etc almost immediately. At no time was any obstacle or difficulty placed by anyone but myself in that process of reconciliation. They showed nothing but love acceptance and goodwill.

It is different, because you parents cannot become ex.

Depending on the person and the situation, do you think it is possible to be good for someone to stay in the BK?
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surendra s negi

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post12 Jun 2013

And then there is the tiresome BK-PBK dispute ...

BKs are how the Murlis describe them, by which I mean, there are stone-intellects, spiritual cripples, many are still asleep and so on; and, new to all that, you have recent generations of neo- or demi-BKs who are re-inventing what the BKWSU is in order to suit themselves and their lives, e.g. getting married and having sexual relationships.

I think they're the worst because they are adding layers of falsehood and obfuscation to justify what they are doing in their own lives ... pretending that that is BKism.

Is there such a thing as a Lay BKs? "A lay BK is no BK".
At the end of the day, what the point? We know more about the BKWSU than most BKs do. Why should we have to deal with their denial time and time again? It's like how many BKs still come along who buy into the whole 1936 myth ... it's not my job to educate them.

[ IMO : Absolutely right and excellently described by - - ex-l]
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post13 Jun 2013

littleo wrote:It is different, because you parents cannot become ex. Depending on the person and the situation, do you think it is possible to be good for someone to stay in the BK?

Of course. What next after BKs often depends a lot on what went before ... I was lucky to have a good family and friends in my pre-BK days with whom I quickly re-established relationships.

To answer your question: It may be better for someone to stay with BKs if they were, and are going to be again, subjected to violence, oppression and other abuse, if they need BK life to find the mental fortitude to live by using Gyan "yuktis" or to even become a surrendered sevadari etc. It may be better to stay a BK than be conscripted into an army and sent into a battlefield ...

Listing the many things that could be worse than staying with the BKs is to miss the main point. is not it really more apt to ask - What could be better than staying with the BKs?.

Even if BK experience improved one's life from before BKs, it need not be the end of the road. The BK experience is one most here have encountered, a chapter or two in a life story. At each step we are authoring our lives. What is going to be written in the next chapter?
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littleo

PBK

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post13 Jun 2013

Pink Panter,

I think I have also managed to make a return to my "normal" life. I don't think leaving is a prerequisite.

I mean are there core BKs for whom Bkism is inherent to them. They are just good at this. It is natural to them. They have the talent for it. They are born for this. You know there are people who have left their head fall down instead of leaving their religion. I mean are there such pukka BKs whom you can see as suitable only for this and that it is possible that they realize their full potential there?
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Pink Panther

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Re: BKs participating on this forum

Post13 Jun 2013

Full Potential, huh?

Many very talented people have spent decades of the most productive years of their lives, doing what?
    Working out ways to get more people to come to the BKs.
And once more people come to the BKs what are those people tasked to do?
    To get more people to the BKs.
    To what end? At what cost?
They talk about spiritually supporting the spiritually needy and of generating spiritual income. OK. If the BKs could spend a half of their material income on materially benefitting the materially needy, then they would be worthwhile.
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