Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

para ex-BKs Hispana, Português, Brasileiro, Francais & Italiano, Amigos y Familia (Amici e Fam)
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proy

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Post15 Apr 2007

vivaespana wrote:People are too scared to speak or go against people like her. Generalmente people do not tell you why they have left because of her. I cannot tell you why but you only have to spend a few minutes in her compania and you will understand why.

I understand. I have met people like that. When I first left the BKs I was afraid to speak out about the bullies and control freaks. In time I lost my fear. I hope you lose your fear too, and not just because I want to hear your story, but because you will feel better for it.
vivaespana wrote:You may want to look at the Latin American co-ordinators as well and you will find that there are so many issues.

I have heard a little about that.
vivaespana wrote:Also, I do not want to get into conflict on this forum as I have enough to deal with sorting myself out of all the conditioning I have had as a BK. I do not need anymore conflict. I just want a peaceful life. So I will not be sharing any more on this forum now.

We all had that to sort out, so I understand what you mean. I wish for a peaceful life for you. I hope you do not feel that you are not welcome on this forum if you do not tell your stories. Many of us are scared, it is what the BKs do to you. It is well understood by the people here. Thankyou for your courage in coming here and suggesting that we look into Miriam's behaviour. I hope you know that you are always welcome here, if you have stories to tell or not. Or you can just read, there is no obligation to write. My very best wishes to you. Good luck, and good health.
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abrahma kumar

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Post20 Apr 2007

Om Shanti vivaespana and all the best. Thanks for the visit and your invaluable contribution to the forum. Vaya con Dios.
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abrahma kumar

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BKWSU service at Santiago de Compostela (April 2007)

Post02 May 2007

NEWS OF THE SERVICE IN Santiago de Compostela, an emblematic Pilgrimage place of Spain. April, 2007.

Baba the magician, continues to do miracles and his children as instruments enjoy the wonderful scenes that the drama reveals us.

On Wednesday the fourth of April we held a conference in "la Caixa de Galicia" lecture hall, one of the best halls in Santiago. It was expected that the attendance on such date would be low, according to local contacts. Against the odds, Baba's magic and the efforts of his children prevailed. The hall gradually reached a full house (about 140 people); the host to present the event, president of "Radio Nacional Galicia", said that he had never seen the hall so full in an event of this kind.

Two days earlier, three serviceable souls wallpapered Santiago with posters. Everywhere you could see Sister Mira's face giving drishti. Moreover, thanks to someone in Miami who received a copy of the book "?Quien manda en tu vida?"(Who rules your life?), who happened to be the daughter of the General Manager for "El Correo de Galicia" (main local newspaper), we had an interview with him and had the opportunity to explain about BK in detail. He was quite impressed by the generosity and altruism of BK. As a result, we had a television interview which was shown on several occasions, and the press covered the news with full page articles. It was also broadcasted on the radio and shown on its web page.

Many souls from Santiago became interested in our activities and 15 joined after the conference to the retreat in "Monte del Gozo" ("Mount of Bliss"), on Thursday.

The group at the retreat was flying and some shed tears as they awakened to their true identity and to the One to whom they belong. It was beautiful to witness such touching scenes which verify the power of Baba's knowledge and of the vibrations from his children.

We walked in silence 7 kilometres of the pilgrims "Path of Santiago" and the guide said that the pilgrim begins its journey accepting whatever he will face; heat or cold, tiredness, etc, for he has an aim to achieve. Along the path he realizes he carries extra weight and begins to get rid of some luggage. This is a sign that we can live our lives with more simplicity and less burdens.
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vivaespana

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Re: BKWSU service at Santiago de Compostela (April 2007)

Post06 May 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:NEWS OF THE SERVICE IN Santiago de Compostela, an emblematic Pilgrimage place of Spain. April, 2007.

Here are a couple of web links of the articiles about Santiago de Compostela one of them has a photo of Miriam Subirana and her new BK book.

http://www.elcorreogallego.es/index.php ... cia=152654

http://www.elcorreogallego.es/index.php ... cia=152116

Vivaespana
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arom

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Re: Hay mas de una Mira

Post11 Dec 2008

Vivaespana wrote:Most of Spanish and Latin American BK's do not speak English/Hindi, so they cannot express their sentiments (feelings) fully to Seniors. It is all about being surpressed and repressed under these kind of SS/Centre-in-Charge/Zone Co-ordinators. It is all about status and, yes, as someone said earlier when these kind of people are pets of DJ, then they "get away with murder".

People are treated almost like esclavos (slaves) around her. And they have to obey everything that she is saying, or else!!!. The ego is so powerful that many times, you would be looked down on by people like her. The opportunities would only be given to people who she gets on with. It is also about using people's money and, like many other Seniors, people with lots of dinero (money) would be respected more and treated like kings and queens.

Hi Vivaespana,

I am from South America, and this is a first experience in this forum. I read about your topic and I felt identify with you. For many, many years I was first a student and then a teacher for many years. In fact, I lived in a center but it was very difficult for me understand about the mistreatment and greed.

Lamentablemente estas muy malas experiencias vividas hicieron que tomara distancia de muchas cosas y sobre todo fuera reticente con las hermanas que viven en el centro. Actualmente la hermana co-ordinadora es Moira quien no tiene nada que envidiar a Sister Mira, todo lo contrario. Tiene un sequito de hermanas a quienes suelo llamar sus bhagats y quienes darian sus huesos por ella, y ella con quienes no tiene buena relacion tiene una excesiva arrogancia es despectiva y los va eliminando como puede, aqui decimos ¨mata al alma¨, de hecho el ante año pasado hubo una JAMELA dedicada exclusivamente a ella, donde nos juntamos a hablar de los malos tratos y abusos, tambien abuso deshonesto y mal manejo del dinero. Lamentablemente los malos tratos no son solamente en Esapana o en India, es en el mundo¨

Aqui por ejemplo se viven quejando que no les alcanza para pagar el alquiler del centro principal, pero se que Moira en esta temporada viajo a Londres a EEUU a Madhuban y viajara nuevamente en febrero a Madhuban, sin contar los viajes a las provincias o paises limitrofes. Aqui un pasaje a Madhu es una fortuna, son 3 sueldos de un trabajador de clase media y el aqluier se podria pagar con algunos de sus viajes los cuales jamas pospone por supuesto.

Es un alivio poder hablar de esto con alguien que tambien padecio una situacion similar de abusos donde es muy dificil hablarlo con las almas en el mundo en general.

Saludos

Arom
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ex-l

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post12 Dec 2008

Rough quote, I could not work out the first bit but it related to some Brother behaviour who do not have good relationships.
At the moment the coordinating Sister is Moira that does not have anything to envy to Sister Mira, quite the opposite. She has a retinue of Brothers to call his bhagats and who give their bones to her. They do not have good relationships. Excessive arrogance and contemptuous, eliminating 10 other matas. In fact, last year there was a meeting dedicated exclusively to her, where we joined ourselves to speak of the bad treatments and abuses, also sexual abuse and bad handling of the money.

Lamentably bad treatments are not only in Esapana or in India. It is global. Here for example they complain that donations do not pay the rent of the main center, but Moira this season traveled to London, the USA, to Madhuban and would travel again in February to Madhuban, without telling about the trips to the provinces or bordering countries.

Here a passage to Madhuban is a fortune. It costs 3 times the wage of a middle-class worker and ... ... postpones by all means. It is lightening to be able to speak of this which identifies similar situation of abuses. It is very difficult to speak about it with the souls in the world.

Giving you a spiritual hug
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alladin

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post12 Dec 2008

Hola, Arom, y muy bienvindo/a.

Si, hay muchas Miras y todo lo que has cuentado, desafortunadamente es muy tipico.

Typical stuff. It is under our eyes that many sisters-in-charge do not work, they parasite off students (Baba's money, Baba's box) and do a lot of traveling (on service) with such donations. One of the problems I always had with that is that often such lecturers and gurus, have a very poor dharna and a scarce interest in Yoga. They get a swollen ego and a big kick from playing that role.

This is under the eyes of those who are in close contact with them and recurrently sees them taking off on planes. Troops are not maharatis, we know, and it is true that in many countries, BK students find it hard to save even a penny to travel for either spiritual purposes or leisure. Especially if they donate regularily their savings to "the cause".

They spread the news that God has come on Earth. Good tidings!

BTW Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone!
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arom

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post12 Dec 2008

ex-l wrote:Rough quote, I could not work out the first bit but it related to some Brother behaviour who do not have good relationships.

At the moment the coordinating Sister is Moira that does not have anything to envy to Sister Mira, quite the opposite. She has a retinue of Brothers to call his bhagats and who give their bones to her. They do not have good relationships. Excessive arrogance and contemptuous, eliminating 10 other matas. In fact, last year there was a meeting dedicated exclusively to her, where we joined ourselves to speak of the bad treatments and abuses, also sexual abuse and bad handling of the money.

First I want to be thankful for you answers and interest dear Brothers

I wrote in Spanish was;

I wanted to clarify something, never speaks of sexual abuse, but badly uses the money of Baba's Bandhara and abuse of her power and position, on other Brothers and Sisters.

She is involved in service, but when exist souls who have some capacity, she herself is in charge to make their lives impossible. So we could call her an instrument but¨something special¨. Jajaja

If I have bad relation with her, but although I made attempts have good relation, thinking that perhaps with tolerance it would be possible to be coexisted but that was very impossible, already mentions it previously.

Yaad pyare
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diwali

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Más y más que una Mira

Post12 Dec 2008

Hola a todos:

Hace tiempo escuché hablar sobre un grupo de "difamadores" de BK en la web y así encontré este foro. Al principio pensé que eran un grupo de "descorazonados" que por sus propios egos no tuvieron logros en la organización. Para mi sorpresa fui encontrando: la revisión histórica, a los PBKs, (jamás como pakka Brahmin escuché hablar de ellos) y tantas otras cosas. Lo que más me molestaba era leer la palabra "culto ", hasta que entendí por qué. Es tan impresionante enterarse que las mismas cosas que suceden aquí (Latinoamérica) pasan en todo el mundo.

Nuestra gran excusa por años fue: "esto pasa acá porque no hay profesores Seniors", " esto pasa por falta de experiencia". Pronto me di cuenta que algo andaba mal, muy mal. Añoro los viejos días en que una taza de chay, un chapati y largas horas de Yoga bhatti eran suficientes para tener experiencias profundas, conexión con Dios y experimentar paz. Hoy esa organización ya no existe. He sido testigo de mal trato psicológico a sus miembros y falta de control del uso del dinero.

Los NCOs en Latinoamérica son tratados como los jefes de una empresa internacional con asistentes, secretarias, mucamas y cocineras! Y quién no esté de acuerdo es por "Maya", su propio "manmat", su problema. Entiendo el "lavado de cerebro" al que fui expuesto por propia elección. A menudo me pregunto ¿cómo no pude darme cuenta? ¿Cómo no lo vi? ¿Cómo fui testigo de tanto mal trato psicológico pensando que eso me acercaba a Dios? Que falta de auto-respeto y amor propio me llevó a pensar que me hacía bien a mi mismo y a la humanidad!

Siento un gran alivio al poder compartir mi experiencia con la única gente que puede entender esto. Gracias a este foro y a ex-l por la revisión histórica que tanto me ayudó a entender. Gracias a Arom por escribir en español, espero que podamos seguir en contacto con los hispano parlantes.

Hasta la próxima
Diwali
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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post13 Dec 2008

Diwali,

Que lastima que voz no lo traduces a Inglés, por que esta escrito con mucho sentimiento y muy profundo.

Gracias,
Tete
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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post14 Dec 2008

si, yes , deep feelings in this post of Diwali! Does anybody have time to translate it? If not, I can do it.
Diwali, estamos atesorando a tu correo, quieres que alguien lo traduzca?
Cheers.
Saludos
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leela

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post15 Dec 2008

Translation of Diwali's post of December 12:
Hello everyone,

A while ago I heard about a group of BK "defamers" on the web, and that is how I came to find this forum. At first I thought it was a group of "fallen souls" who had failed to find success within the organisation due to their own egos. To my surprise, what I found was: the historical revisions, the PBKs (never in all my time as a pukka Brahmin did I hear about them), and many other things. What bothered me the most was coming across the word "cult" until I understood why. It's quite something to discover that the same things that happen here (Latin America) happen in the whole world.

For years, our big excuses were, "These things happen here because there are no Seniors." "This happens due to a lack of experience." I soon reaslised that things are going wrong, really wrong. I long for the old days when a cup of chai, a chapati, and long hours of Yoga bhatti were enough to bring deep experiences, a connection to God, and feelings of peace. That organisation doesn't exist any more today.

I have witnessed psychological abuse of its members and a lack of control over the use of money. The NCOs in Latin America are treated like the bosses of an international company with assistants, secretaries, servants, and cooks. And anyone who doesn't like it is suffering from "Maya," their own "manmat," their own problem.

I understand that the "brainwashing" I suffered was through my own free will. I ask myself often, "How come I did not realize? How could I not have seen it? How could I have witnessed so much psychological mistreatment thinking it was bringing me closer to God? What kind of lack of self-respect and self-love led me to believe that it was doing good to me and humanity!

I feel a great sense of relief to be able to share my experience with the only people who can understand. Thank you to this forum and to ex-l for the historical revsion which helped me so much to understand. Thanks to Arom for writing in Spanish, I hope we can stay in touch with the Spanish speakers.
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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post16 Dec 2008

Thank you for that heart-felt note and thank you for the translation, leela.

You have it right, it is a global problem and the only thing unlimited about the BKWSU are the excuses and fabrications

I think many of the old timer BKs feel much the same way you do too. It would be really good if someone could make a translation of the historical revision work and a newsletter of our findings here to communicate it to those in Latin-America.

Because of the divide between rich and poor I am afraid "the poor" followers out there will suffer much worse and not hear what is going on elsewhere ... the sacrifices they make to go to Madhuban etc.

What is happening on the corporate level there? Is it corporate executive trainer and CEO Ken O'Donnell?
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diwali

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post04 Jan 2009

Hola a todos:

Muchas gracias Leela por la traducción. Si bien puedo entender algo de inglés es muy dificil para mi expresar sentimientos en ese idioma. Me tomé unos días para responder porque me asustó un poco las respuestas que recibió Arom. El tema del idioma es algo que me costó superar dentro de la organización. Es usado como una barrera para manipular. La gran mayoría de lo BKs en Sudamérica no habla inglés y mucho menos Hindi por lo tanto si tiene alguna consulta personal o queja necesita de un traductor. Muchas veces el traductor es la misma persona que es denunciada por maltrato delante del senior. Pueden imaginarse la situación…nada agradable. Se por experiencia propia que Mohini Bhen de NY suele responder con copia a los NCOs y a veces por medio de ellos responde a los BKs. Un completo abuso de poder sobre los alumnos. En general se anima a los alumnos y a los BKs pakka que escriban a los Seniors responsables de la zona (Ken, Monini Bhen) para consultas y compartir sus esfuerzos personales, etc.

ex-l:

creo entender tu pregunta sobre el servicio a nivel corporativo que hace Ken Bhai. Ken junto a Luciana y otros llevan adelante el proyecto “viviendo valores en las organizaciones”. Tiene bastante éxito en Chile, Colombia y Brasil. Han logrado contactar universidades, empresas, y organismos de gobierno. Por supuesto aquí también se sigue la fiel tradición de perseguir VIPs con el único propósito de sacar algún provecho. En muchos casos, primero se los persigue insistentemente, después se los lleva al Call of the Time en Madhuban y cuando regresan se les da la bienvenida diciendoles que ahora pertenecen a la gran familia global. Si todo va bien en la próxima temporada los llevan denuevo a Madhuban pero esta vez delante de BapDada (obviamente no es requisito seguir disciplinas). Creo que Brasil es el país que más éxito a tenido en este terreno. BK tiene una Editorial propia en San Pablo que empezó siendo una oficina en un zótano del centro principal y actualmente tiene dos propiedades enormes y emplea BKs.

Una vez más, gracias a todos los que contribuyen con este sitio. Es una oportunidad única compartir con todos ustedes y sobre todo muy liberador pensar por uno mismo! Feliz Año Nuevo a todos!

Hasta la próxima,

Diwali
automatic forum translation wrote:Hello everyone:

Leela thank you very much for the translation. While I can understand some English is very difficult to express my feelings in that language. I took a few days to respond because I am a bit scared that the responses received Arom. The language issue is something that cost me overcome within the organization. It is used as a barrier to manipulate.

The vast majority of the BKs in South America do not speak English and Hindi much less so if you have any questions or complaints staff needed a translator. Often the translator is the same person who is alleged by abuse in front of the Seniors. You can imagine the situation ... nothing pleasant.

It was from experience that Mohini Bhen NY usually responds with a copy to the NCOS and sometimes through them responds to the BKs. A complete abuse of power over the students. It was generally encourages pupils and BKs pakka to write to Seniors responsible for the area (Ken, Monini Bhen) for consultations and share their personal efforts, and so on.

ex-l: I understand your question about the service at the corporate level that makes Ken Bhai.

Ken along with Luciana and others are conducting the project "living values in organizations." It is quite successfully in Chile, Colombia and Brazil. They have succeeded in contacting universities, businesses and government agencies. Of course here also follows the true tradition of pursuing VIPs for the sole purpose of drawing some good. In many cases, persistently pursues the first, then takes them to the Call of the Time in Madhuban and when they return will be welcomed by telling them that now belong to the big global family.

If all goes well next season in the lead again at Madhuban but this time in front of BapDada (obviously is not required to follow disciplines). I think Brazil is the country that has had more success in this field. BK has an Editorial own in St. Paul began as an office in a Zótano's main campus and currently has two properties and uses enormous BKs.

Once again, thank all those who contribute to this site. It is a unique opportunity to share with you all and above all very liberating think for yourself! Happy New Year to all!

Until next time

Diwali
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ex-l

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Re: Miriam Subirana - Liona de Espana (Lioness of Spain)

Post16 Aug 2010

The word is the "Lioness of Spain" is no more. Miriam Subirana has apparently now left the BKWSU. Of course, as usual, the BKWSU will give us no official confirmation and ignore emails. But various reports confirm it.

It would appear that having built up a significant body of work and international contacts through the BKWSU, it is still business as usual for Miriam. She is now active with her 'Yes Oui Si Foudation', an "international centre for arts, values, spirituality" and ... personal and corporate coaching.

Miriam appears to be still involved with ex-BK Brian Bacon's 'Oxford Leadership Academy' and BK contacts David Cooperider and BK Judy Rodgers' Appreciative Inquiry. In short, all learnt and picked up during her time with the BWKSU and doing pretty much everything she was doing within the BKWSU, e.g. self-leadership seminars and "The 8 Powers" (an old BK favorite) but perhaps just without the 4 am in the morning starts. Is she still incorporating the BK's meditation as well? I do not know.

Notably, her biography does not seem to mention the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University by name. Instead, it waffles on about a "values" led NPO etc. But it does say she stepped down as president a couple of years ago. Who took over?

Does anyone local have any more information on the background to all this?

Ethics from a BK Brahmin point of view aside, perhaps Miriam offer us a positive example of how to take one's BK experience and turn it into something of personal advantage. It is just a shame she and individuals like her do not feel capable of coming forward to a forum like this and sharing openly the various stages they went through to get to this momentous point.

Perhaps the likes of you and I are still below them?

Miriam was a controversial figure within the BK world. She beloved by Dadi Janki ( ... well, she did come from a wealthy background, did not she?).

In fact, like a few such Brahma Kumaris center-in-charges, she was so trusted by the BK elite that she, seemingly, she was even able to instruct others to pay donations to the BKWSU directly into her own account. A strange thing to do with charitable donation but no doubt one she clarified with the charity's leaders first ...

Many felt that Miriam was given many privileges by the BK elite but was often accused by the lower orders under her, some of whom left because of her. What are the leadership, who generally backed her up, saying now?

My questions would be simple:

    a) who gets the royalty payments from the books now? Are they hers, or if she was fully "surrendered" to the BKWSU at the time they were written, do they not belong to the BKWSU? Is it not just another case of privileges for a few where mutal business interests lie?
    b) what about all the collator damage that happened on the way? If she is now no longer a believer ... what does she have to say to them?
It was only a short while ago that she was berating a local cult watch group for calling the Brahma Kumaris a cult.

Answers please ...
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