Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

for discussing revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and updating information about the organisation
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ex-l

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Re: Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

Post15 Jan 2022

It's headed off topic but I'll allow myself a little divergence in this ... if you want to know the history of rock'n'roll, you are looking at the wrong sort of Indians in the BKs. Sure be that the spirit speaks to us through music far more than scripture.

And has it not been all the way through history that one of the first thing the imperialists & colonisers did, was ban, oppress or outright just kill off indigenous musical & artistic expression, cut off hair & dress uniformly? I've not considered it but there's probably a whole other thread of discussion to be had around that.

Although I left BKism a long time ago, it took a very long time to get it as out of me as it is, & when I finally came to address it all with peers via these forums, I found music, specifically genres of rock'n'roll to be very liberating.

However, of the years I did spend in BK circles, the one thing that I'd like to be remembered & take credit for, was playing David Bowie's Starman during one of the long, intense meditation sessions instead of the awful Bollywood music or the "acceptable" but fey New Agey stuff. I thought the lyrics & sentiments were all very suitable. The center-in-charge had to leave the room. All of these little things, like Diamond Harbour, were tiny incremental shifts that made the BKs into what they are now, whatever that it. But they all came from outside BKism.

Starman - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBKEt3MhNMM

Upaya

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Re: Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

Post15 Jan 2022

In classical Indian Philosophy they talk of Shabda Pramana .. the use of words in the transmission of knowledge.

Words plus music really touch the heart and convey magnified meaning ... not just what is said but what is felt ,..

Western Music mixed with Indian Mantras and rhythms (sound used to train the concentration of the mind) has a history preceding the recent New Age examples.

George Harrison produced an outstanding example with the Radha Krishna Temple


I have a life long love of poetry and came across this recent USA Poet Joy Harjo a native American who uses words and music to create powerfully beautiful and profound word and sound meditations.



She Had Some Horses

BY JOY HARJO

I. She Had Some Horses

She had some horses.
She had horses who were bodies of sand.
She had horses who were maps drawn of blood.
She had horses who were skins of ocean water.
She had horses who were the blue air of sky.
She had horses who were fur and teeth.
She had horses who were clay and would break.
She had horses who were splintered red cliff.

She had some horses.

She had horses with eyes of trains.
She had horses with full, brown thighs.
She had horses who laughed too much.
She had horses who threw rocks at glass houses.
She had horses who licked razor blades.

She had some horses.

She had horses who danced in their mothers' arms.
She had horses who thought they were the sun and their
bodies shone and burned like stars.
She had horses who waltzed nightly on the moon.
She had horses who were much too shy, and kept quiet
in stalls of their own making.

She had some horses.

She had horses who liked Creek Stomp Dance songs.
She had horses who cried in their beer.
She had horses who spit at male queens who made
them afraid of themselves.
She had horses who said they weren't afraid.
She had horses who lied.
She had horses who told the truth, who were stripped
bare of their tongues.

She had some horses.

She had horses who called themselves, "horse."
She had horses who called themselves, "spirit," and kept
their voices secret and to themselves.
She had horses who had no names.
She had horses who had books of names.

She had some horses.

She had horses who whispered in the dark, who were afraid to speak.
She had horses who screamed out of fear of the silence, who
carried knives to protect themselves from ghosts.
She had horses who waited for destruction.
She had horses who waited for resurrection.

She had some horses.

She had horses who got down on their knees for any saviour.
She had horses who thought their high price had saved them.
She had horses who tried to save her, who climbed in her
bed at night and prayed as they raped her.

She had some horses.

She had some horses she loved.
She had some horses she hated.

These were the same horses.
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ex-l

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Re: Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

Post16 Jan 2022

Upaya wrote:In classical Indian Philosophy they talk of Shabda Pramana .. the use of words in the transmission of knowledge.

Erm, what else would anyone use to transmit knowledge?

I looked it up & it seems to refers to "testimony of past or present reliable experts", so that's us when it comes to the Brahma Kumaris.

Upaya,

Honest, unloaded question; what's your interest in or connection with BKism? Or questions for us.

Thanks.

Upaya

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Re: Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

Post19 Jan 2022

Does anyone know Wesley (Nelson?) of Beyond Sound 76-78? Can anyone share anything about him? I understand he was the main singer on the Early Album. Where is he now?

He has a very beautiful voice and lovely devotional songs. His music style reminds me a bit of Harry Belafonte ... Louis does some fine bass work on some of the tracks.

Here are some of his lyrics
Children of Sat Yuga

Children of SatYuga
Rise and Stand
It is time for you to leave this foreign land
No more to wander this desert alone
Your Baba has come to take you back home
Children of SatYuga
Raise your heads
With spiritual knowledge you will be fed
You’ve been too long in folly, now come and be wise
Your Baba is here with your Paradise
Children of Sat Yuga the road is rough, and the palms of kali yug(a) are just not enough
So talk to your sweet Father in easy mediation and you can be sure he will grant you your Salvation
Your Salvation
Sweet Salvation

Children of SatYuga here we stand at the greatest turning point in this time of Man
No need to look back
You’ve played your role
All eyes on the Supreme Director, the Supreme Soul
The Supreme Soul
Sweet Supreme Soul
Children of SatYuga
Children of SatYuga
Children of SatYuga
Children of Satyug
Children of ... SatYuga
Clear

Clear
So Clear
Not a shadow remains
Clear
As the brightest dawn
Not a Cloud left undispersed
And the feeling is overwhelmingly sweet
Super sensuouosity
And oh! My Love You perfect One
How you made it so Clear
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ex-l

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Re: Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

Post19 Jan 2022

Upaya wrote:Does anyone know Wesley ... His music style reminds me a bit of Harry Belafonte ..

Well, he was also Black too.

I remember him as nervously shy. Sadly, back then, when someone was having a hard time, they sort of just drifted off & their "failure" (disappearance) would be ignored by everyone as if they never existed ... in case one caught their Maya or they acted as a temptation to leave oneself.

Sorry, I have no idea what happened to him. Possibly just another talent laid to waste. There was an emphasis not to focus on or talk about such things, & just keep yourself busy "earning an inheritance" or doing service. No idea what he went through where either. There were only a handful of Black BKs in "Gyan" at the time. We were supposed to be practising "soul consciousness" and not "looking at the body" but, equally to my shame, I never asked any of them about their experience in the BKWSU. Especially given how negative the Sakar Murlis were about dark skin.

What is your interest in or connection with BKism?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

Post19 Jan 2022

Wesley had real struggles and identity issues. He was both well spoken and quietly spoken, educated, an accomplished musician, from Jamaica originally, connected with other accomplished professional musicians. The drummer on those early recordings was from Desmond Dekker's band "The Aces".

It's common in Hindu cults for the guru to hear the Westerner's name and 'baptise' them with a new "spiritual" name that phonetically sounded similar, or sometimes just a common Hindu name that sounded similar. Wesley? Say that with an Indian accent -> Vijay!

Many BKs insisted on being known by their given "spiritual" names, others not. I don't think I ever was given one. He'd flip between being wanted to be known as Wesley one day to being known as Vijay. I'd say "Hi Wesley" he'd say "My name is Vijay" then on other days it was "Hi Vijay" to which he'd say "My name is Wesley". Faaaaark - said the crow.

It's like he had a secret life. And he did, from the BKs at least. I found out later that he had a son from past relationship. It was kept very secret and was not to be discussed - you know, sex is so dirty and, even worse if it's out of wedlock etc ... scorpions, lizards, and all that.

Then there was, as ex-l says, the undercurrent of racism. Even in India among Indians it exists. And like most such undercurrents, it's not noticed by those not subject to it. I remember one Madhubaniwassi who was a very dark south Indian eventually telling me during a long conversation, indirectly, that he was subject to racism and hoped that in the Golden Age he lived on his own away from everyone.

For centuries the upper castes were lighter skinned, the castes that do the work, out in these, were darker. So just as light skin denotes less exposure to the elements, more genteel, so too white clothes are what you wear when you aren't doing dirty work. Look at, for example the wealthy Saudi Arabs. Wearing crisp whites is a statement of class, of expectations, of duties.

He did not mix with rest of us much - apart from making music with the other musicians. He did not engage in social conversation, although when he did contribute to any Gyan discussions, it was deep and philosophical. I gathered that he was well read, quite intellectual but not wanting to get involved in speculative intellectual wankery for its own sake, he was into 'feeling". However. I suspect he left BKs for similar reasons many of us do, the irreconcilable tension between what is felt, experienced in silence, what is yearned for, and the tension that has with the illogicality and continued expectation of suspending one's rational, emotional and/or biological faculties.

Wesley is/was a wonderful, smart, handsome man, a talented big hearted person and I hope that after he went his own way that he found love, contentment and resolution.
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ex-l

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Re: Diamond Harbour - Western arts & music in the BKWSU

Post19 Jan 2022

Pink Panther wrote:Then there was, as ex-l says, the undercurrent of racism. Even in India among Indians it exists. And like most such undercurrents, it's not noticed by those not subject to it.

Yeah, I was going to be even more blunt & say that, at the time, "god" and his "official" representatives, preferred blondes.

Of course, it wasn't just a color issue. Gender divided us even more. You'll remember her of the same generation, Pink ... Cynthia. A seemingly really lovely older Caribbean lady who always appeared to be a little sad and, in my opinion, marginalized. Despite sitting in the same room with for years, I never real spoke to her & we did not really ask each other, "How are you? How are things going for you?". It just wasn't the done thing to do regardless of someone's ethnicity.

There was another, younger Black/Dominican wannabe singer, Paul was it? Always cheerful I think he just disappeared too. So much about keeping up face, until what was behind it collapsed.
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