Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History

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abrahma kumar

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The expriential phenomena known as "Inspiration"

Post08 Dec 2007

john wrote:In Sakar Murli it clearly says ShivaBaba takes a corporeal medium to teach Gyan and does NOT teach through inspiration. Surely then this inspiration or touchings you are feeling are your own imagination or from somewhere else? Surely this is the most sensible way to teach otherwise all different souls will come up with all manner of nonsense and want to say it is from GodFather.

Abe would offer some oblox along the lines of: The Father really does NOT teach Gyan through "inspiration". We are mouth-born children.

The Father comes and speaks inspiring words to us. He does not stay from His Supreme Abode and give touchings. He comes and we recognise Him.

Could a question for another topic be: Does Inspiration require 'intervention'? or does inspiration come out of nowhere?

:oops: Are the above questions ideological?

Regards
abek
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andrey

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Post10 Dec 2007

Dear Golden heart,

There are many examples that people base their position only on defamation of others. for example what you say about the BKs cannot be true for consciousness is with "c". BK means son or daughter or Brahma which is not a form of body conciousness for we are not progeny of the body.

Like you say we should leave body consciousness, we should leave the 10 ideologies. Let's leave them but offer a better solution; new consciousness, a new ideology, we should adopt.

It is not true that in the Golden Age and Silver Age there is no religion (ideology). There is religion. It is the original eternal deity religion that ShivBaba has come to re-establish. We don't aim to be left with no religion, but we aim that we all adopt one and the same religion which is also the same one we used to belong to once. We aim one religion or ideology and this the best of all, not the worst of all, but the first of all.

Same way we should adopt the soul-consciousness, then no second effort should have to be done after that for leaving the body-consciousness. Like also many say deprogramming, but this is also not enough. If we deprogram our computer we are left with a blank monitor. We should reprogram, with the correct program. Reinstall. Other is just nihilism.

There are problems now, because there are variety of opinions, religions etc. Every now and again an angel or god comes to deliver the true information. One religion can be there if there is one religious founder.

golden heart

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Post15 Dec 2007

Sweet Golden Heart, John

John : In Sakar Murli it clearly says ShivaBaba takes a corporeal medium to teach Gyan and does NOT teach through inspiration.

This has been previously addressed in this thread :
John wrote: John 01.10.07 - In Murli it says ShivaBaba does not do anything by inspiration, but comes himself. Which really makes the most sense because anyone could say “I got inspired by ShivaBaba to say or do such and such” and try and pass it off as God Father Shiva's word.
Golden Heart wrote: Golden Heart 03.10.07 -
4. Another bit of miscommunication here. My apologies. The role of Shiva is certainly not through inspiration, when he gives the complete Knowledge directly on the Sakar level from 1937 to 1969. When he plays his second part as Shankar, this is through inspiration. He inspires the Scientists souls to make the nuclear weapons for World transformation, etc.

John: Surely this is the most sensible way to teach otherwise all different souls will come up with all manner of nonsense and want to say it is from GodFather.

That is exactly what is going on in the Yagya since 1969, the chief promoter of this ‘nonsense’ being the soul of Virendra Dev Dixit on a corporeal level, followed by the others, leading to confusion and chaos in the BK World (whether BK, PBK, etc.), which is the blue print of the confusion and chaos prevailing between and within the Religions of the outer Broad Drama. It is precisely this ‘nonsense’ which progressively leads to ‘diversity’ and the resultant disintegration and ‘ideological’ chaos which is evident in the Yagya today.
Golden Heart wrote: Golden Heart 03.10.07 - What you have mentioned regarding 'passing it off as God Father Shiva's word' is precisely correct when the role of Shankar is being played. That is why TEN different Major ideologies spring up, each claiming that they are the TRUE GOD, and others are influenced by the Devil.

Sweet Golden Heart, Andrey

Andrey: There are many examples that people base their position only on defamation of others.

When Supreme Soul Shiva tells us that we are now in the very depths of Hell (rav rav narak) and this WHOLE World is a BROTHEL or House of Prostitution (vaishalay), it meant that we had become extremely Impure, completely Degraded, and totally Bankrupt; it meant that we were PROSTITUTES. I did I not consider this to be ‘defamation’ and I was not offended in any way, I did not feel insulted in any way and it did not give rise to any negative feelings within my Personality (Sanskars). The reason why this ‘Truth’ did not trigger negative feelings within my Sanskars was because I recognized who was ‘speaking’ and I realized that the ‘True’ intention of the Father was not to defame the Child but to bring a certain Realization to the Child with the aim of motivating the Child to reach the highest ‘destination’.

Those who do not ‘recognize’ and ‘understand’ would still consider above to be ‘defamation’, but those who do ‘recognize’ and ‘understand’ would know same to be the ‘truth’, the ‘realization’ of which is extremely benevolent. When ‘shooting’ period of Copper/Iron Ages commences in the Yagya, the ‘defamation’ propagated by each of the instrumental souls is ‘considered’ to be ‘truth’ by respective followers, and any ‘truth’ highlighted by anyone outside a particular ‘ideology’ is considered to be ‘defamation’ of that ‘ideology’.

Andrey: What you say about the BKs cannot be true, for consciousness is with "c". BK means son or daughter of Brahma, which is not a form of body consciousness, for we are not progeny of the body.
Avyakt BapDada 06.09.07, Page 3, (reproduced on this Forum) Thread - BK / BapDada – New season 2007-8 Avyakt Vani

What will the Pandavs do ? “ those who are ‘wrong’ will see it negatively and those who are ‘right’ will see it positively ”

Andrey: Like you say we should leave body consciousness, we should leave the 10 ideologies. Let's leave them, but offer a better solution; new consciousness, a new ideology, we should adopt. There is no other new ‘ideology’ to offer. Simply endeavour to comprehend the K already revealed by Supreme Soul Shiva in its proper perspective, from a soul-conscious viewpoint.

Andrey: It is not true that in the Golden Age and Silver Age there is no religion (ideology). There is religion. This awareness only exists now. In Golden Age and Silver Age it is not ‘understood’ or even ‘considered’ to be a Religion, since the concept of alternative ‘ideologies’ does not exist at that ‘time’ in that ‘consciousness’.

Andrey: We aim one religion or ideology and this the best of all, not the worst of all, but the first of all.

I agree, to an ABSOLUTE DEGREE.

Andrey: We should reprogram, with the correct program.

I agree, to an ABSOLUTE DEGREE, the program of ‘soul-consciousness’.

Andrey: There are problems now, because there are variety of opinions, religions, etc. Every now and again an ‘angel’ or ‘god’ comes to deliver the “true” information. One religion can be there if there is one religious founder.

That one ABSOLUTE SPIRITUAL ‘FOUNDER’ is Supreme Soul Shiva.

Sweet Golden Heart, Button Slammer

Button Slammer wrote: Button Slammer 05.12.07 - I hope that when you eventually get to the point of what it is you actually have to say/express, it will prove to be as entertaining as your prologue. That is of course, if mere words are able to encapsulate the unlimited fragrance of your golden heart, etc, etc. All talk and no action ? Lets wait and see. Your style of expression is colourful and hypnotic. Perhaps just style over content ?

The emergence of sub-conscious thoughts, the emergence of conscious thoughts and the expression of words ARE ALL, SUBTLE forms of ‘ACTION’. The Supreme Soul has no physical medium to perform ‘action’ solely in the way it is viewed from a BC perspective. His Thoughts are expressed in Words through a physical medium, and those Words definitely bring about the manifestation of the most auspicious and elevated ‘ACTIONS’ in the WHOLE OF CREATION. There is absolutely NO DOUBT in this ! ! !

TO ALL THE SWEETEST, LOVELIEST, LOVABLE, LOVING, LOVEFUL, Golden Hearts ...

The Depth of LOVE which exists within the GOLDEN HEART for ALL Golden Hearts may be experienced in the Song, here or here. I will not be in a position to respond to any posts for a prolonged period from now, but I look forward to further interaction with you ALL in the near future ...

Till then, Adieu et Au Revoir, my Beautiful, Beloved, Sweetest, Golden Hearts

With Imperishable Divine Love to you ALL,

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart
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john

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Post15 Dec 2007

OK , thanks for the reply have a nice time.
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arjun

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Post15 Dec 2007

Golden Heart wrote:The role of Shiva is certainly not through inspiration, when he gives the complete Knowledge directly on the Sakar level from 1937 to 1969. When he plays his second part as Shankar, this is through inspiration. He inspires the Scientists souls to make the nuclear weapons for World transformation, etc.

Dear Golden Heart,

Omshanti. You say that Shankar's part is through inspiration, which means it is not in corporeal world. But ShivBaba said the following through Brahma Baba in the revised Sakar Murli dated 15.8.07 published by BKs in Hindi:

"Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar aur Lakshmi-Narayan ki biography ko bhi ham jaantey hain." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 15.08.07, pg 3)

"It is we who know the biography of Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar and Lakshmi-Narayan also." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 15.08.07, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, translated by a PBK, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

We know that biographies are possible only when someone has a corporeal body and exists in this corporeal world. :)
golden heart wrote:That is exactly what is going on in the Yagya since 1969, the chief promoter of this ‘nonsense’ being the soul of Veerendra Dev Dixit on a corporeal level, followed by the others, leading to confusion and chaos in the BK World (whether BK, PBK, etc.), which is the blue print of the confusion and chaos prevailing between and within the Religions of the outer Broad Drama. It is precisely this ‘nonsense’ which progressively leads to ‘diversity’ and the resultant disintegration and ‘ideological’ chaos which is evident in the Yagya today.
golden heart wrote:When ‘shooting’ period of Copper/Iron Ages commences in the Yagya, the ‘defamation’ propagated by each of the instrumental souls is ‘considered’ to be ‘truth’ by respective followers, and any ‘truth’ highlighted by anyone outside a particular ‘ideology’ is considered to be ‘defamation’ of that ‘ideology’.

You name the soul of Virendra Dev Dixit as the chief promoter of this 'nonsense' but are using the words that were made popular in the Brahmin world by ShivBaba through this medium only, like 'outer broad drama' and 'shooting period'. :D

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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abrahma kumar

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The Comforter of Hearts ...

Post15 Dec 2007

Golden Heart wrote: wrote:... The reason why this ‘Truth’ did not trigger negative feelings within my Sanskars was because I recognized who was ‘speaking’ and I realized that the ‘True’ intention of the Father was not to defame the Child but to bring a certain Realization to the Child with the aim of motivating the Child to reach the highest ‘destination’.

Those who do not ‘recognize’ and ‘understand’ would still consider above to be ‘defamation’, but those who do ‘recognize’ and ‘understand’ would know same to be the ‘truth’, the ‘realization’ of which is extremely benevolent. ...

Thank you for sharing these insights into the personality of the Comforter of Hearts. My experience has been exactly as you have described.

Regards
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andrey

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Post22 Dec 2007

The comparison with the car that we can leave the cars we are in and still communicate is not correct, because the driver or the soul is not capable of thinking or speaking without the body - the car. The mouth organ is there in the body (car) itself also the brain.

If you imply that we can receive touchings from Baba and for this we need to leave the consciousness of the body, still whilst we catch the thoughts, although we may not feel it, but we are in a body, so the one who emits the thoughts - the Supreme Soul - whose touchings we are to catch he should also be in a body so that to be able to do that.

It is said in the Murli that "i cannot do anything without a body, i need to adopt a body, souls are like non-living in Paramdham, there is nothing there no communication, no thoughts etc., nothing is done through inspiration etc." If he could do everything from there, touching our souls he would change the world just like that. Why come here on earth and speak for years. It is even said i have t come in the impure world in an impure body as if he does not like it very much, like there is a compulsion.
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truly_awake

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History

Post31 Jul 2011

golden heart wrote:1. The Supreme Soul Shiv revealed The Knowledge, in its entirety, through Brahma Baba-Lekhraj Kirpalani, directly through his mouth from 1937 to 1969. The ‘shooting’ period of Golden Age was from 1937 to 1951, and the destruction mentioned for this time, was the ‘ideological’ destruction of that period, when the Yagya was shifted to Mt Abu and the ‘shooting’ of Silver Age commenced, lasting till 1969.

If the period from 1937 to 1951 was the shooting of Golden Age, then how do we correlate the legal case, picketing and all the turbulence against the Om Mandali during that period to the Golden Age?

Any Answer ???
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ex-l

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History

Post31 Jul 2011

I think you are making a BIG mistake going in and trying to logically or rationally discuss "The Knowledge". One cannot do it. It is not logically or rationally, it is like the ramblings of a mad person ... a mad person who is intelligent, funny even, and 'just' nice enough to lead one to think they are normal ... but they are not. You cannot "beat them" or win that way. It is like charging into a swamp to fight an enemy you cannot see. You will get bogged down, sucked in and exhausted before you get anywhere with them.

What you are quoting is an idea which has been developed even further by the PBKs. With the PBKs, the BKs' mindset is only even more exaggerated and unrealistic. Its adherents enjoy playing with the mental constructions, and gain comfort from it, but it all means nothing and it is just as shot to pieces with contradictions and inconsistencies.
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truly_awake

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History

Post07 Aug 2011

Dear ex-l,

I was actually trying to invoke that sweet sweet angel "Golden Heart", who was trying desperately to prove the BK knowledge true by using a honey-coated sweet sweet baby-sitting story-telling language.

I would give respect to his/her sweet effort but I was so surprised that the golden heart did not write on the forum after December 2007. (S)he exhausted all his/her sweetness in 16 posts during 3 months and in the end, in his/her last post, (s)he had to use bitter word "nonsense" for Veerendra Dev Dixit, whose theory (s)he was also using, at least partially.

Any way, I doubt whether golden heart would ever come back to this forum and share his/her thoughts any further. Let me just give my good wishes to the lovely soul of golden heart.
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