Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

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mbbhat

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post31 Aug 2008

Dear ex-l soul, thank you.

But I did not get reply from you for other questions. You are interested in truth instantly. So, can I know why did not you reply to those I have asked?

To Admin: It seems that there are bugs. I have posted this on 1st Aug 2008, after a quote of ex-l which was on 31st Aug, 2008 & 18:39Hrs. But this appeared before. Anyhow, this is not a complaint. Just an information
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ex-l

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post31 Aug 2008

All the originals are in the Library. I trust you judge for yourself.
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mbbhat

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post06 Sep 2008

No reply from the person who demands INSTANT TRUTH!

OK, it is is also drama.
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ex-l

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post06 Sep 2008

Instead of coming across like a *****, could you just tell me what it is I am meant not to have answered?

I told you, yes, it is documented on the forum that the BKWSU presents its self and leaders as Hindu when it suits them and, yes, there are copies of published PBKIVV documents over a period of approximately 10 years using the term Prajapati for Lekhraj Kirpalani as God and not mentioning Shiva at all.
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mbbhat

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post07 Sep 2008

Why then does it tell the Charity Commission that it was set up "to promote Hinduism" and why in Religious leaders in Birmingham ... Dadi Janki presented as a "Hindu representative"?- This was your question. But I needed the following clarification.

Are you sure that BKWSU had itself declared that Janki as Hindu representative or the authorities have written like that?
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ex-l

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post07 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:Are you sure that BKWSU had itself declared that Janki as Hindu representative or the authorities have written like that?

You are asking a very specific question, whether someone in the BKWSU declared Janki to be a Hindu representative. I cannot tell that specifically.

Can you tell me that they do not represent themselves as representatives of Hinduism?

The Charity Commission stuff is certain, it is in writing. That BKs market themselves as Hindu to as Hindus, yes. I can tell that the BKWSU not only has an active PR department but even an adherent working within the BBC News on website stories, Trushar Barot, and so if there was a mistake, I am sure they would make sure the BBC would correct it. Wouldn't they? So I say that the BK present themselves as Hindu when it is profitable and non-Hindu when it is more profitable. In a way, it is quite typically Sindhi.

Did or does Prince Charles see then as Hindu (it was he that they went to met)? I should think so. There is a good article that refers to how the Brahma Kumaris play the Hindu card, here; Brahma Kumaris in Indonesia. Here is the BBC article. Personally, I don't think the BKs would have got in promoting Brahma Kumarism, as Brahma Kumarism is too small a religion.

An interesting related question would be, "do the Brahma Kumaris celebrate Hindu festivals like Diwali? I would say, no. And that, without checking, it is against Shrimat to celebrate such festivals. They have events on the same dates to market themselves to Indians but the BKs offer their own liberal interpretations of the festivals that are quite different in meaning and derivative.

See below for an example of the Brahma Kumaris not being Hindu. I agree that by their own definitions, they are not. So why do they play along with others that think they are? (What are they saying?).

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ex-l

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post08 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:BKs and Hindus believe that God himself incarnates for benefit of mankind. Other religions believe in prophets or different types ... Nobody knows beginning of Hindu religion ... Hindus and BKs offer naivedya (Bhog) to their God ... etc

I must admit, there was so many loose BKisms and Hindu superiorities (of which the BKWSU is full) in the long post above that it just exhausted me to have to weed through them all, e.g. the obvious ones; no ... Christians think Jesus is God incarnate, no ... there was no single founder of the Hindu religion, yes ... many other faiths offer food to their gods etc.

It made me revise, "what is Hinduism?" and, of course, the obvious response is that there is, basically, no such thing and it was invented by Western (Christian) Indologists in the 19th Century and their intentions were deeply prejudiced and highly dubious. It strikes me that those Indologist, present day Hindus AND the BKWSU are all making a great error to separate the indigenous, shamanistic religions of the Indian sub-continent from the indigenous, shamanistic religions of anywhere else. Prior to the Imperialists there were not hard and fast national borders.

It is hard to call "Hinduism" a religion at all. It has no founder, no fixed belief system, no corporate hierarchy, no church or governing institution that says, "all Hindus believe this and that" and should act in a certain way. The largest Hindu temple in the world is not even within India, it is in Cambodia and Brahma, for example, written out as "not worshipped" by the BKWSU, is widely worshipped in Thailand, Indonesia and else where. Our view of it in the West has been dominated by the Vashnavite cults.

However, just to point out one obvious similarity; the British were involved in Hinduism's creation, especially the making of an Indian elite, "Indian in blood and color, but English in taste, in opinion, in morals, in intellect", to quote Macaulay. So too have they been deeply involved in the creation of the BKWSU.

BKWSU adherents are denied proper education and taught an infantile, comic book version of Hinduism suitable only for supporting and strengthening the infantile hypotheses of BKism.
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ermine

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post09 Sep 2008

Hello my spiritual friend. You are gorgeous. my Sister!!!

The topic is a perfect as you are, in the Sky of the God. Of course Hinduism. Probably is it a mixture Jainism and Hinduism! We can see completely same transformation - A new Judaism religious sect as Christianity which became new religious movement 2008 years ago in the Mediterranean Regions.

At the moment the world has been Globalizing and transforming very rapidly. BK is same - a new way of Hinduism. It is Quite Unique as you had already learned - very tolerant; BK has quite distinctive approach to living peacefully regarding the human being condition and cognitive ability to understand the nature of this world. There is nothing wrong with BK, just an evolution of human beings and human body in accordance with quality of life and living condition.

If you enable to combine it in your brain, you can get a good result. As a part of Hinduism, or the BK transformation, you are (personally) very explicit pattern of this modern and global micro evolution. Every single world that you said is a perfect and true.

Many thanks, for your strong spirit and perfect expression.
God bless you
Om Shanti
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ex-l

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post10 Sep 2008

I can see what you are saying, and I agree that for many (especially Indians) it appeals as a sort of Neo-Hinduism Lite; modern, stripped of the obvious ignorance and, now, fortified with all sort added extra ingredients like "management skills".

But I am not sure that is what it is at heart. Far more, I think it is about an upper caste, and our spiritual "overlords", learning a new way of taking control over the masses and profiting from it. Not necessarily financially, although the religion does provide comforts and an income for the overlords' "hosts", the BK Seniors.

Much more I feel that "the gods", those spiritual parasites that feed off humanity, are just learning new ways to keep humanity in their servitude. This would explain why the "Shiva" soul did not know a lot when he first entered the BK equation, picked up and kept learning from the immediate Om Mandli community, and continues to pick up and learn new things to control his audience. In truth, at the moment I am thinking that there is not just one Shiva soul but I am wondering if there are more than one entities involved, a group souls as it is called. See a recent post on, "The gods masquerading as Cosmic Self.

Only time will tell ...
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mbbhat

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post10 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:1) You are asking a very specific question, whether someone in the BKWSU declared Janki to be a Hindu representative. I cannot tell that specifically.
2) Can you tell me that they do not represent themselves as representatives of Hinduism?
3) So why do they play along with others that think they are? (What are they saying?)

Srimat says,
    a) give knowldege to poojaris of Shiv and deities.
    b) Even if you (BKs) when BKs say that we belong to sanatan, nobody would accept it easily. [Because they do not understand]. Eg:- Even if BKs say Avyakt BapDada comes in Gulzar Dadi, agyaanis consider that BKs say Dada Lekhraj enters in GD. When there is no way, one is forced to follow the best among the existing paths.
When you cannot say specifically, it is better to go slow.

Murli also says that the souls which have got converted into other religions will come back (take Gyan). It also says, there is no Hindu religion. Since bharatvasis (Indians) have forgotten their religion, they call themselves as Hindus.

Due to the above and other points I had already mentioned, I think it is not correct to say that BKs play along with others.
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ex-l

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post12 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:I think it is not correct to say that BKs play along with others.

Then why did they found a charity to "promote Hinduism" and "alleviate poverty" (... apart from their own poverty that is) and why does global chief Janki Kripalani accept a position within? That is irrefutable.

Both are lies. Pure and simple. I would say it proves that the BKWSU leadership are deliberately vague and opaque, even to authority and especially to other religions, to get whatever and wherever they want.

Does Shrimat say "lie to non-BKs"? (possibly ... would be my answer).

Your other problem is that according to the BKWSU, the final population of Sanatam followers was 330,000,000. Right?

The population of India is approximately 1,130,000,000. So, even excluding other religionists, the majority of Hindus were never Adi Sanatan Devi Devata Dharma.
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ermine

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post13 Sep 2008

Mood morning or evening my spiritual friends and, of course, brilliant ex-I

You have been digging very deeply my spiritual friend but your idea is to do disproportional interpretation on the basis of materialistic facts of BK theory and senior Brothers and Sisters behavior - what is does matter who they are and their position in BB regarding to Hinduism or neo-Hinduism? As you know, they are basically humans, not ideal and perfect as SS, and they have been living on the planet earth. Therefore they are not completely soul because they wish to eradicative body influence in Hinduism way.

They do it perfectly in accordance Hinduisms’ religion transformational transformation regarding to condition (human beings condition as they are) on the earth. Souls remain stable body has been changing – you are perfect pattern of this transformation. Have a look at your personal behavior in this web - your have been changed from BK followers to severe critics, sometimes quite aggressive, but sometimes very polite - but your nature remains the same. Recently you were BK Treasure - now, of course, also. Then you have been to BK did you think that BK it is not Hinduism way? So, they are also it does not matter - Hinduism, Buddhism or others philosophical school and religious movements.

Thank you Sister for your famous work, you make people thinking how to be better.

Omshanti
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mbbhat

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post13 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:1) Does Shrimat say "lie to non-BKs"? (possibly ... would be my answer).
2) Your other problem is that according to the BKWSU, the final population of Sanatam followers was 330,000,000. Right?

1) I do not feel bad to say that Shrimat says lie sometimes. When the other person does not understand, then you will have to use an alternative method. In fact, I may post a thread like, "Lies in Murlis" in the future. But it is called as "yukti".
2) My belief is that the population at the end of Silver Age is just 2 crores (2.16, more appropriately). This is my new calculation. At present, I am tied up because of not having database of Murlis with dates. Hence I cannot support them with properly. [Even though most of the BKs think that it is 33 crores by the end of Silver Age].

The logic is like this:-

    In the beginning of Golden Age, it is 9 lakh. If by the end of Silver Age, it is 33 crores, then the multiplying ratio in heaven = 33 crore/9 lakh= 367. Now, the multiplying ratio in hell will be 700 crore/33 crore = just 21. But I believe the rate of increase of population should be less in heaven than in hell.
    There is no wonder if the number of BKs are very much less than number of Hindus. Number of direct children (who believe in BK philosophy) will be less, and number of devotees will be more (obviously, it has to be). Just 108 souls pass in Raja Yoga. But others also follow the same path. Similarly, when deities become Hindus, other Hindus also follow their path. There is follow at least to certain extent in the form of Bhakti.
    But in other religions, there is diversion.
    But, actually all belong to sanatan religion, since all are children, grandchildren of the same 9 lakh souls.
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ex-l

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post13 Sep 2008

Well done on attempting the mathematics mbbhat. It is one of the most obvious and rational efforts to have made, before diving head first into beleiving in BK "Knowledge" ™. I raised this issue a long time ago on the forum point in exactly the same direction as you have done. No one tried.

To be honest, the difference was so great that I could not actually be bothered calculate it but, with a bit of calculus, it should be quite simple to come up with upper and lower estimates.

ermine, largely I have no clue what you are talking about, vis-a-vis "disproportional interpretation on the basis of materialistic facts ... in accordance Hinduisms’ religion transformational transformation regarding to condition". I tend to just ignore your poisoned flattery as I ignore when someone I am with accidentally lets out a smelly fart in public.

Explain to me how "proportionate" the BKWSU re-writing their history, erasing such "material facts" such as 20 years of God Lekhraj Kirpalani and the multiple failed predictions of Destruction is?

Explain to me how "proportionate" it has been for the thousands of followers who have given freely of their time, health and money on the basis of such fraud?
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ermine

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Re: Why Brahma Kumarism is not Hinduism

Post14 Sep 2008

hello again my Sisters and Brothers and special greeting for ex-l.

In accordance with statements mentioned below I have to admit that you can blame everyone in planet earth for such variety of similar things. They are human first with insufficient body. Therefore, it is obvious that they can make a mistakes as everyone did in this particular stage of evolution. It is your rights to decide "believe or no to believe” in it rewritten history of what we did not know, which obviously expressed in story tale style for children.

Imagination affected by unperfected body. you take all this staff seriously despite of contemplating yourself as a soul in the body. I think you are wasting your time writing this comments every day – it looks as addiction which has no difference from subject of your critics. It is dogmatism and fundamentalism and entire inflexible interpretation of certain unnecessary facts which do not cost a penny. All history of most religious sects is completely the same and so many victims of (by karma they are not victims – equalization of energy) battle for truth which they never know, knew or will know. Human Dependency and addiction for definitions in any transitional stages are weakest think which could cultivate countless and thoughtless ideas narrowly discovered in very tiny specified area. It is influence of clear materialistic superficial imagination counted as something a huge importance but actually is nothing else than empty speeches or paper.
ex-l wrote:Explain to me how "proportionate" the BKWSU re-writing their history, erasing such "material facts" such as 20 years of God Lekhraj Kirpalani and the multiple failed predictions of Destruction is?

Explain to me how "proportionate" it has been for the thousands of followers who have given freely of their time, health and money on the basis of such fraud?

It is just dust what we can do with who believes in it, but they are happy for a quite long time-it is very positive. Unfortunately your have been trying to destroy this small amount of perfection but it is exist in your imagination only which has nothing to do or did with BK. Personal ego.

Sorry brilliancy I really like you.
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