Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

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jack

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Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post26 Aug 2008

Why/when/how did the ‘divine’ Father changed his name from 'Prajapati Brahma' to 'Prajapita Brahma'? One name is not equivalent another, definitely (Pati = Husband, Pita = Father).

In old books and posters, he is mentioned as "Prajapati Brahma", and His followers denoted as "Prajapati Brahmakumaris".

Reference :-

    1. This preordained World wide war of Mahabharata by: om Radhe– which used hundreds of time prajapati, but not a single time prajapita.
    2. The poster – Original Cycle
    3. The poster – Divine Decree etc ... etc ...
But after 1960-70 The name was totally changed to Prajapita.

Comment?
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ex-l

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post26 Aug 2008

Good question. Well spotted. We don't know. The BKWSU are silent. Western Brahma-kumari followers seem to see it as significant as a minor spelling error. You see it is also Prajapati God Brahma ... with no mention of God Shiva until after 1950. Something else the BKWSU has been silent about until it was discovered here. Was "God" Lekhraj Kirpalani the surrogate husband to all the women in Om Mandli? Just a guess on my behalf but probably yes. At least in the hearts and minds of his gopi followers.

Having said all that, in Hinduism, Prajapati Brahma is also used for Brahma as the Lord of Creatures. So many be it is just a misspelling by the Sindhis? Have you seen the Hindi version of the same pamphlets?
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alladin

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do not ask "Why?"

Post26 Aug 2008

Yes, I think it is a good question, and we could raise hundreds of more legitimate questions for which we either would get no clear answer or no answer at all.

Unfortunately, the SS are generally not available for satisfying such curiosities (eat your soup and shut up!), and it would be particularly embarrassing if they originated from this Forum that in their eyes is seen as a lair of traitors and anti-Christ types. So, until someone authoritative steps in and provides an explanation, all we can do is guessing and the interpretation ex-l gave
Was "God" Lekhraj Kirpalani the surrogate husband to all the women in Om Mandli? ... At least in the hearts and minds of his gopi followers.

sounds a possible one.

When the Yagya was a family business, or addressed limited communities, it made sense that an enlightened religious minded old man replaced on a spiritual level those often abusive husbands of arranged marriages. When the Yagya expanded and went more "global", the husband became the "Father" of humanity. Eventually the medium of the Creator himself.

What concerns me, is the way BK members are conditioned not to question any revision, change of course, nonsense etc ... They are taught to always give the benefit of the doubt and make allowances (so many misspellings! ;) ) for all sorts of incongruities. To protect their own "spiritual family" and see no flaws in it.

For your own progress, you should stay away from "doubts" and tricky grounds. Before Destruction, if the vessel of the intellect becomes clean and worthy enough, Baba will disclose all secrets and all riddles will be solved. :shock: What a training we 've been through!!
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jack

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are they correcting a big mistake?

Post27 Aug 2008

They purposefully removed all “Prajapati” from all their posters and leaflets.

Look at this stamp on ‘original tree’ (which you can download from library section). That is currently removed on the new Trees.

Sure, they have a hidden agenda behind this, or they are correcting a big mistake.

tree stamp.jpg
tree stamp.jpg (35.32 KiB) Viewed 9910 times
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ex-l

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Re: are they correcting a big mistake?

Post27 Aug 2008

faisu wrote:Sure, they have a hidden agenda behind this, or they are correcting a big mistake.

The number one agenda is for the leadership to hide how stupid they were and how dishonest they have been since re-writing all their history as a fantasy without informing their followers.

All of them, all of the big ones; Janki, Nirwair, Karuna, Mohan Das ... they know all this. They faked history. Faked books. Made up stories like children to hide the truth. They have led their followers on.

Whether Shiva as God is true or not is not the issue here ... he might be, he might now ... the question are;

    how can lies lead to truth?
    how can this be "enlightened" behaviour of supposedly near perfect human beings?
    how can anyone trust them as leaders without addressing all of this?
You can see their response to being asked in the legal topics ... they close the "gates of their castle", employ a lawyer and refuse to answer questions. They keep their followers dumb and afraid to think and ask about such questions.

I would love to be proved wrong but my prediction is ... they will just keep on "business as usual" in India selling Adi-Dev and the comic books to naive, ignorance Indians. In the West, they will publish a saccharine sweet, whitewashed half-revision for the Western Elite, probably written by BK Tamasin Ramsay. In both cases, "having faith in the half-truth" will be sold as "proof" of one's faith and loyalty to God; "questioning" their revision shamed as "Maya" and "defamation".

"Defamation of Baba" or "Defamation of the Yagya" is one of their more common fear-factor, controlling methods.
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uddhava

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post23 Sep 2008

faisu wrote:Why/when/how did the ‘divine’ Father changed his name from 'Prajapati Brahma' to 'Prajapita Brahma'? One name is not equivalent another, definitely (Pati = Husband, Pita = Father).

What do 'Praja-pati Brahma' and 'Praja-pita Brahma' mean anyway?

mbbhat

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post24 Sep 2008

uddhava wrote:What do 'Praja-pati Brahma' and 'Praja-pita Brahma' mean anyway?

Pati = husband, owner (maalik), e.g.: karod_pati = crore_pati = owner of karod.
Pita = just Father

I feel the word pati (respect is always present) has higher power than pita. In lokik (Hindu philosophy), both words Prajapati as well as Prajapita are famous.

Daksha Prajapati and Prajapita Brahma or Piaamah (means great grandfather) Brahma are famous. [Daksha is called as PrajaPATI and Brahma is called as PrajaPITA or Pitaamah]

In Hindu philosophy, it is written that Sri Krishna had sUdarshan chakra (a wheel used as weapon). Through Murli, Baba has corrected it as sWadarshan chakra [W instead of U]. This gives me some satisfaction for the change from Prajapati to Prajapita.

But I have not heard the word Prajapati Brahma. Hence the word Prajapati Brahmakumaris is still a puzzle to me.
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uddhava

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post24 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:Pati = husband, owner (maalik), e.g.: karod_pati = crore_pati = owner of karod. Pita = just Father

But how are the husband / Father connected to the word Brahma (is it for example 'Father of Brahma', 'Father and Brahma' etc) and what does 'Brahma' mean?

mbbhat

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post24 Sep 2008

uddhava wrote:But how are the husband / Father connected to the word Brahma (is it for example 'Father of Brahma', 'Father and Brahma' etc) and what does 'Brahma' mean?

Prajapita Brahma means Father Brahma, not Father of Brahma. Brahma = big (unlimited) ma (mother). So Prajapita Brahma is both CORPOREAL Father and mother of humanity.

PRAJA = soul with body, hence the "word corporeal".
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arjun

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post24 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:PRAJA = Soul with body, hence the word corporeal.

Praja means 'subjects (of a kingdom)'
uddhava wrote:What do 'Praja-pati Brahma' and 'Praja-pita Brahma' mean anyway?

Prajapati = Husband/Lord of the subjects
Prajapita = Father of the subjects

It is believed by the PBKs that the appointed Chariot of the Supreme Soul Shiv becomes Prajapati as well as Prajapita during the Confluence Age. In both cases he should be present in corporeal form as the Praja (i.e. human souls of this world) are present in the corporeal form.

Since Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) is not present in a corporeal form now he cannot be called Prajapita Brahma in real sense since it is believed by BKs that he is in the Subtle Region with a subtle body.
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uddhava

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post24 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote: So Prajapita Brahma is both CORPOREAL Father and mother of humanity. PRAJA = Soul with body, hence the word corporeal.

OK, so does Praja-pita only refer to this soul while he is incarnated on earth as Dada Lekhraj and his previous incarnations? I think that BKs believe that since 1969 this soul has not reincarnated, so is there another name for this soul as incorporeal?

mbbhat

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post25 Sep 2008

uddhava wrote:OK, so does Praja-pita only refer to this soul while he is incarnated on earth as Dada Lekhraj and his previous incarnations? 2) I think that BKs believe that since 1969 this soul has not reincarnated, so is there another name for this soul as incorporeal?

Dada Lekhraj becomes Prajapita after God takes his media (God incarnates in him = enters in his body). So Brahma is called as Prajapita (vyakt Brahma = Corporeal Brahma = effort maker) till 1969. After that he is called as Avyakt Brahma (complete soul with subtle body in Subtle Region). Yes, Prajapita refers to only DL as per BK philosophy*. 2) It is not so. Incarnation is not of Dada Lekhraj. Incarnation is of God in Dada Lekhraj (DL) which turns DL into Brahma. BKs believe that this soul (DL's) existed from his lowkik birth till 1969. As duties of DL changed after reincarnation of God in him, his name is changed from DL into Prajapita.

*BKs believe that Brahma should be corporeal(Prajapita) because God needs a body to give knowledge. But after knowledge is given, the need of body becomes less. Hence BKs believe that the form of Brahma need not be corporeal till the end of Iron Aged world. Even in bhaktmarg(lowkik), Brahma is given two places (one as Prajapita, corporeal** and another in Brahmalok***, separate from physical world)
**= vyakt Brahma
***= Avyakt Brahma
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ex-l

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post25 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:PRAJA = soul with body, hence the "word corporeal".

Prajapati (Sanskrit), from praja that which is brought forth (from pra forth) + pati lord. Show me where this other meaning exists.

But what we read of Lekhraj Kirpalani was that his name was not Prajapita until after 1950 something and there is no mention of Shiva until then either before then, he was Prajapati.

Does that mean Shiva did not enter him until after 1950 ... how and when did he enter?
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uddhava

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post25 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:Prajapati (Sanskrit), from praja that which is brought forth (from pra forth) + pati lord. Show me where this other meaning exists. But what we read of Lekhraj Kirpalani was that his name was not Prajapita until after 1950 something and there is no mention of Shiva until then either before then, he was Prajapati. Does that mean Shiva did not enter him until after 1950 ... how and when did he enter?

Have I got this right? The BK teaching today is that from an unknown time the soul God / Shiva started to periodically enter the body of the soul Dada Lekhraj, and so the name 'Prajapita Brahma' refers to the soul (DL) whose body was used as a Chariot by God? So, it is interesting to wonder what DL meant by whatever he was calling himself in 1943, i.e. pre- any mention of Shiva.
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ex-l

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Re: Prajapati to Prajapita - Name changed for what?

Post25 Sep 2008

Precisely Uddhava ... and why the confusion with Krishna, the Gita Inventor (except that they had all been having visions of what they thought was Krishna)?
mbbhat wrote:Brahma = big (unlimited) ma (mother). So Prajapita Brahma is both CORPOREAL Father and mother of humanity.

I have never heard this etymology and cannot find reference to it anywhere. Is it just one of those made up Hindi ditties so beloved of BKs?

Brahma (ब्रह्म), masculine, arises from the Sanskrit root 'brha' meaning 'growth, development, expansion, swelling' etc.

Sightly more interesting is "Brahmānda" (ब्रह्माण्ड), or Brahmand, which arises from stems brha (to expand) + anda (egg), means universe as an expansion of a cosmic egg (Hiranyagarbha), or the macrocosm.

Hiranyagarbha is also a name of Brahma, so called because he was born from a golden egg and in tantra, the Shri Yantra represents the expansion of the universe from the cosmic egg after its creation, the cosmic egg is represented by a dot in the center of the Shri Yantra mandala and called the bindu. The expansion of the universe coming about by Shiva through the power of Shakti.

I think one can see where the roots of BK Gyan are coming from ... a confusion of all these previously existing Hindu concepts ... but not just "what did Lekhraj Kirpalani think of when he called himself Prajapati Brahma?" but "how did the name come about?" was it from the spirits through one of the other mediums?
Hindus believe that Brahma and Vishnu were touring the Universe one day and found a pillar of light which extended farther than they could perceive in two directions. They were curious and decided to split up to see if one of them could find an end. Vishnu went in one direction and Brahma the other, After some time, they returned to their staring place.

Vishnu said that he was unable to find the beginning, no matter how far he traveled.

Brahma said that he found a beginning. He lied.

Thereupon, the Pillar of light immediately changed into a form of Shiva who called Brahma a liar and sentenced him to be little observed in the divine ceremonies. This is why you will not find many pujas to Brahma.
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