SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

1. What is the authenticity of the picture?

2. If until 1950, there was only God Brahma, i.e. Lekhraj Kirpalani then ... What about the 14 years long Tapasya by the adherents at that time? What was the form of Tapasya and whom they were meditating to? Where Dada Lekhraj himself meditating to?

Excuse me for not answering all your questions right away ... and in this topic ... but as the the important ones.

1) the authenticity is 100%. These books, posters and paintings come from the British Government 'India Office Collection' held at the British Library in London. These were the original materials sent by Lekhraj Kirpalani's followers to the British Government of India, probably to the Viceroy or at least the local Collector of Sind. (What starts to get interesting is when you start correlating them to the stories in the 'official books' and discover that Nirwair, and a load of other Senior Brothers, are all lying in writing, and compromising themselves to cover all this up).

2) You ask the $ 1,000,000 questions ... "what was the form of Tapasya and whom they were meditating upon? And who was Dada Lekhraj himself meditating upon?".

If there was no God Shiva, no knowledge of God Shiva, how could they have been "purifying" themselves during that period? If you read the materials you will see they believed in an omnipresent Divine Light and that Lekhraj Kirpalani was the God of the Gita.

Yes, I think in the most simple, down to earth interpretation, the followers were just attached to Lekhraj Kirpalani. And remain so for a long time after. I also spoke to a next door neighbour of the Om Mandli ... the accounts he gave were much different from those of the Brahma Kumaris. He spoke of the women screaming and howling when they went into trances.

It also added a lot more rational reasons why the community were so concerned about the seances Lekhraj Kirpalani was holding and his power over the women. It is insane.

Now, the BKs try and excuse it because, "it was God", no one else believed it and they were all just devils. Now we know it was all about Lekhraj Kirpalani. Who is coming in Gulzar? ... Another excellent question.

I always wonder why people need some religion or belief system to get their act together. If you need it fine! But there is where it all goes wrong and people like cult leaders take advantage of it ... Throughout history all religions have been fighting, killing children and flying into skyscrapers. All for God and the promise of pie in the sky. Now, who are the peaceful? ... All "non-believers" believe in the power of their own nature, their experience and the understanding whatever comes in front of them and learn from that. Those are the rich ones ... as they see religion is for the poor.

It's true. Yes, so much abuse of the religious path has happened. I don't like it all. A secular soul can live a wonderful and warm and good life.

Why do souls go wrong in the name of religion? Not enough love in their hearts, they do not listen to the wisdom of their heart and also kill that inner voice of the conscience. That little voice tries to tell us when something is wrong.

Hey Ex-I,

I am out of time this morning but I'll definitely answer your post soon. A number of posters are asking about other parts of BK teachings so let's discuss those too.

By the way, did you actually read my post? I thought I was genuinely sharing what I believe and how it's impacting my life. Did that not come across in what I wrote? I don't follow anything blindly at this stage of my life. I am well past that, believe me.

You're prepared to consider other viewpoints, aren't you? Anyway, no disrespect meant. I can see you very pasionately believe BK Raj Yoga is a money making con. All I want to do is genuinely express my real life experiences. I am more than happy to speak to those questions your raised about 5000 years, etc.

Cheers,
Pete

a) By the way, did you actually read my post?

b) You're prepared to consider other viewpoints, aren't you?

c) I can see you very passionately believe BK Raj Yoga is a money making con.

A quick response ...

a) "read" ... Yes, of course. It is the basis for respect on this forum.
b) "points of view" ... No, only objective truths. Or as near to an objective views as we can collectively get. Like someone far wiser than me once said, "opinions are like assholes, everybody has got one". PR spin is like their product.


I expect better out of "yogi" souls.
c) You are quite honestly an idiot, or deliberately attempting to insult and provoke me, if that is all you can see and understand about my "beliefs" about the BKWSU and BK Raj Yoga.

Please try 'asking' me first what I "believe" (or at least reading where I have explained it all before many times already) rather than 'telling' me and others what I believe ( ...and getting miles wrong).

It is only politeness to do so.

BTW, I am entirely "Om Shanti" as I write this. Don't try and wind things up by suggesting I am anything else. I am sorry but we have just had too many idiots pass through this portal. Thankfully though, we have also had far more wonderful and insightful people to make it all worthwhile enough. I am hoping that you will turn out to be the later.

I missed some things in quickly skimming the thread. I haven't read all your posts on the forum. No, I did not intend to inflame you at all.

Sword, That is just all the "blah blah blah" sales pitch ... please get to the point. 5,000 Years ... identical repition ... Destruction of 6 Billion ... is BapDada "God of all religions" and comes 'in person' to speak the BKs exclusively? Yes or no?

If you have not read it elsewhere already, one thing we discovered here was that there was no God Shiva in the Brahma Kumaris until after or around 1950. The story in Adi Dev is falsified. There was no 1936 "Shivoham, Shivoham ..." type incarnation. Up until 1950, there was only God Brahma, i.e. Lekhraj Kirpalani.

Conversation cannot progress until you get to the point please.

But mate, you asked what I thought BK Raja Yoga really is. I tried to explain what I thought the fundamental parts are, especially as I've had to think long about why I am interested again after twenty years. It's important to grow and be an adult so I am well past repeating what someone tells me is "truth" as I did twenty years ago.

You may not intend this, but your post above comes across as very dismissive. I really am trying to answer what you asked in the first place. The second part is how it genuinely makes me feel and act in my life.

Sure, I know what you've written about the history of the Yagya, 5000 years etc. I am happy to talk openly about that too.

Cheers,
Sword

We are concerned with the lives of the people who are misguided initially, and finally felt cheated.

I agree with whatever description you have given about The Knowledge. I, myself, was explaining it to others. But it is only theoretical. For the initial years of Gyan, it seems amazing. One can explore unlimited threads discussing the points of knowledge [although Gyan says, be brief and put a dot (.)]

Try Living a full life of BK. Follow it as these theoretical teachings says ... PRACTICALLY. Transform yourself to angel/deity, of course without any (?). If any (?) come, you are failed and thrown out to “Silver Age”. The questioning authorities are only BIGS.

I am worried if all their teachings (viz. Golden Age; High Status; Krishna's soul; Kalpa's 5,000 Years ... identical repetition ... Destruction of 6 Billion ... BapDada "God of all religions" comes 'in person' to speak the BKs exclusively; imagine yourself as point of light ... forget your body, bodily relatives, etc etc) are PROVED to be false, WHAT THE HORRIBLE STAGE WOULD BE OF THE INNOCENT ONES ...

If you have not read it elsewhere already, one thing we discovered here was that there was no God Shiva in the Brahma Kumaris until after or around 1950. The story in Adi Dev is falsified. There was no 1936 "Shivoham, Shivoham ..." type incarnation. Up until 1950, there was only God Brahma, i.e. Lekhraj Kirpalani.

1). Cool, mate. So you agree The Knowledge is there and is part of the teaching, if I understand what you've written correctly.

I like spiritual thinking. I like it when I hear it in something New Age, I like it when I hear something wise and loveful in the Bible (like those letters towards the end of it), I like it from Buddha's teachings, the Qur'an, anywhere, and I find a lot of it in BK teachings.

2). Following noble ideals and aspirations practically? That's the real question, is not it? I think we should at least try. We all have our flaws. We can but aspire to grow to be more humble and decent souls.

BKs run lots and lots of workshops about that. I don't know about the old days, but that's how it's been for a number of years now.

Mind you, since the 1970s, the newer style morning classes, the Avyakt Murlis, have been taught as core teachings. The topics these cover are things like: contentment, being centred and being in charge of the kingdom of the self, peace is the breath of life, respect, good wishes and much more. Don't those newer style workshops dovetail into the topics covered in Avyakt Murlis?

3). Understanding the Silver Age? Souls who fail? The way you write it sounds like it's disrespecting people. The real teaching of BK Raj Yoga is that each soul is different. That the world in its best form started with a small population. Then it grew and grew. The teaching is that there some souls who take many births and some who take few. Even perhaps one. Some souls come into the full flower of Christianity in its glory, some into Islam, etc. Some come into the world when it is quite materialistic.

Every soul comes into the world fresh and in its perfect experience.

In such a short space as one life, that soul with one birth has the fullness of its own experience of human existance. A soul who takes one birth, or two or three or however many is still a wonderful and unique being. Worthy of affection and respect. Every soul is. To really be a BK you have to see others with a deep love and respect. It's that respectful vision as you view others without the barriers of culture or skin that brings a very rewarding interaction with one's fellow travellers through life.

It's all about how you take it.

4). I know there was no teaching of Shiva in the beginning of the Yagya. Dada Lekhraj thought he was God for a long time. I want to post about that soon.

Cheers,
Pete

You may not intend this, but your post above comes across as very dismissive.

What am I supposed to do if someone insults me ... brahmakumaris.info is "not as easy as going to your auntie's house."

Just get to the point and we will get on just fine. At present, I feel that you are only talking about the external stuff, the fluff, the PR and avoiding talking about the core issues as I mentioned above.

The fluff is not what the BKWSU and BK Raj Yoga is about. It is only the salespitch to get people in the door.

Let us talk about what is inside the door.

If you go to the Library, here, you can download the original Tree and Cycle posters and paintings. There are also books from the 30s and 40s. They are discussed in detail in the History forum. It is clear that the top BK all sat down and conspired to make up various stories ... and got them all very, amateurishly, wrong in details.

These were found and publicised by a long-time ex-BK in the British Library without any help from any BKs. There must be more. There is also evidence to prove that even current "middle-management" BKs knew about them and kept them covered up. What it means, for starters, is that the whole Adi Dev, 1936 incarnation of Shiva story was faked at a later date. Some of the fakes have made their way into Murlis.

Excuse me if this sounds like a machine gun going on SwordofJustice ... but the leadership, the so-called Trimurti Dadis, Original Jewels, or "the top 8" souls in the world, all knew about this stuff but conspired to deceive their following about it. They followed Lekhraj Kirpalani as God Brahma until at least 1950 ... through a number of failed 'End of the World' predictions.

Now, these are the "powerful yogis" and embodiment of truth that all BKs (with little hope) aspire to become ... and yet they are liars and deceivers. Can we deceive our way to truth? I do not believe so.

Can we deceive our way to other people's bank accounts and have them work for us for free? All the time ...

Hi again ex-I,

I believe whatever pictures you've found are quite genuine. I am not shocked by any of it. I've heard it said there are inaccuracies in people's recounting of the early times of the BK Raj Yoga, etc. I don't dispute that.

It might sound strange coming from someone who comes here and writes basically pro BK Raj Yoga posts, but I agree with you. There are many wrong doers around who seek to deceive and live a good life off other people's money. No surprises there. I believe in "buyer beware". You have to keep open eyes.

Cheers,
Pete

What am I supposed to do if someone insults me ... brahmakumaris.info is not as easy as going to your auntie's house.

Just get to the point and we will get on just fine. At present, I feel that you are only talking about the external stuff, the fluff, the PR and avoiding talking about the core issues as I mentioned above.

The fluff is not what the BKWSU and BK Raj Yoga is about. It is only the salespitch to get people in the door.

Let us talk about what is inside the door.

You're too fast for me, buddy. I am trying to get through all the posts. This is what you wrote as the core beliefs earlier.

a) the spirit entity or entities possessing all the Brahma Kumari mediums is the "God of all religions" and he is making an exclusive visit to earth via the BKWSU.
b) the endlessly and exactly repeating 5,000 Year Cycle of Time etc
c) an imminent and desirable death (Destruction) of all humanity
d) BK Raja Yoga is the path of surrendering everything ... or even just a little ... to that/those spirit entities; mind, body and wealth (... man, tan, dan) and being used by their for their agenda.

OK let's talk.

a). Yes I believe God intervenes in our world. Directly when the direct teachings are needed, through inspired souls like Christ before then. For all the wrong done by humans overlaying their issues over each religion, there are some wonderful truths in each religion that have helped make the world a better place. And now at this time, God is directly intervening.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth earlier. You can express what you believe, but there are in fact many who don't accept BK Raj Yoga yet still acknowledge that they feel something, some spiritual presence or power, in meditation or from Dadi Gulzar when that spirit medium thing happens. What do you believe about that? Did you have any experiences, ex-I?

b). Yes, I do believe in repetition of each event in this world story. It's a big topic for me to explain more detail on though. I hope I've thought it through well. Can I take a rain check and come back to it later? Maybe in another thread?

c). Death of all humanity? Sounds like a negative wish against people of the world. How about this instead? A deep change in humanity's consciousness that brings a better world. Any better?

If you go around thinking "great, 6 billion dirty souls are gonna be wiped out!" I've got some news for you. You aint practising what I believe God teaches us. Very negative...

Many great religions and other spiritual traditions speak of a time of war. Armageddon, the biblical apocalypse and similar. I've seen TV programs about Nostradamus and similar with the same views. The Hopi native american indians appear to have some interesting legends about the world story from what I find on the internet. The Hindus believe the world goes through four great ages and have legends about an "end of the world".

Raj Yoga teaching on this is nothing new. Humanity is not at its best right now. Is that a fair statement, mate? I shudder when I see reports of the brutal massacres, the violence, rape, destruction that my Brother humans are capable of. Many religions teach that the institutions of this world will shake deeply as we go through a difficult time.

Without being trivial or spinning someone's PR, I see it as a message of hope. If I personally make a fundamental change to every day make real some really deep spiritual views as best as I can, I am helping the world with my personal little corner of it. I believe the teaching explains this will win the day and a better life for us can happen.

It's all about how you take these spiritual points of teaching. Do you want to go around spitting on people as "dirty"? Hardly divine, is it? But why do we run to the negative interpretation of everything? Again and again, I am minded to post that Murli classes teach to live with respect and good will for others. So that is the acid test on how to understand any of the BK teachings. If I am putting out negativity to myself or others, am I really connecting with a supreme being?

d). Depends on how you do it. If I genuinely feel that I have found a good religion with worthy life values and spiritual teachings, are you saying it's a wrong thing to contribute to it? Ex-I, what if I draw a parallel with Christians? They follow a religion, just as BKs do. They also tithe and contribute to their church. Is it wrong? What if they try to share their religion with others? Is it wrong?

Doesn't it really depend on how they do it? Going a bit further, really doesn't the inner feeling that they have while doing it count for so much? In other words, if they are kind and they genuinely want to share something that makes their life warmer and richer, I believe that is a noble act.

I know Christians exactly like this. And many BKs.

I don't know everything. I can only speak of my direct experience, but nearly all BKs I've met are genuine people. Some are little more religious and strict than others. I don't know, maybe the BKs as a group have mellowed out more in recent years? Anyway, they seem fine to me. Is it the senior souls you're critical of? Have I understood you correctly on that?

What can I say? BKs treat the senior leaders of BK Raj Yoga like puppy dogs. I saw it in action just a few weeks ago. I don't, nor shall I ever.

I am happy to learn from them if there is something spiritual I can pick up. If I see them make a mistake and speak wrongly to someone, I don't close my eyes to it either. Funnily enough, I respect their dedication in following a meditation path for so many years. I do feel more spiritual presence when they meditate at the front of the room. I think many years of meditation practice has an effect even if someone lacks some quality of compassion at times.


Cheers,
Sword

@Starchild
I want to answer your post most of all. Lovely online nickname, by the way. Maybe I am just a hippy at heart. :-) LOL

Your points re. the Soul
The last point about forgiving murderers, etc first. Naive? Yeah, I'll always be an idealist. It's harder in the moment. You don't know me, of course. I've had some measure of hardship in my life though nothing major. I know it's easier to say it than achieve it.

You know what amazes me? Survivors of the death camps in Nazi Germany forgiving all that and moving on. More recently, survivors of the genocide in Africa finding a way to smile. How can that happen? All that pain and suffering, kids with their arms hacked off, murder, rape. So brutal yet they somehow can find their humanity afterwards. The human spirit is capable of such amazing beauty and grace, it dumbfounds me sometimes. Many cannot make that leap though; I do understand that.

Now, on to the rest of your response. All your writing in this topic is solid. You've hit the nail on the head in my opinion: the fundamental teachings about the soul are hard to argue with. They seem so clear and universal to me also.

Can one separate the organisation from the teachings? I suppose you have to, at least to some degree. You see, we are all humans and we have darkness inside us. I've been so angry at moments in my life that I was blind with rage. Now that I am a calmer and better person, I am not proud of those times. But I cannot change it now. I have to accept and find good in myself and move on.

So each and every BK is human, fallible, and has some measure of fault, weakness and darkness inside. I forgive BKs a lot more these days as I also learn forgive myself too. I accept my weaknesses and try to work through them. At least I try. They generally are a sincere lot too.

I've read here and have heard of some words spoken by senior BKs which come across so harshly. Critical, cut off, not sensitive or appropriate for a soul who is in turmoil. Saying things like "Tough luck - mental illness" in response to someone committing suicide. I don't like it.

You know what I've come to the conclusion of? It's just wrong. I strongly believe God feels so much compassion for all of us. If we are to try and sincerely live our lives to become close to God then where is our compassion? Detachment is something so easily misunderstood. Any BK should review whether they are compassionate, in my opinion.

What can I say more about all this? Humans all make mistakes. Each BK leader is expressing their understanding of spirituality at that moment according to what they've absorbed and their personality and life history. You might not believe this, but sometimes they get it right too. You never know, each one might privately regret a given mistake later. I personally wish the realisation of the real big mistakes stands up and slaps them in the face one morning. But it's not up to me. I hope every BK makes good progress and learns to do it better.

Anyway, I just am not going to let any of that stop me from following spiritual truths myself. I won't stop because of their issues.

Your points re. God
You make some great points here. I don't really dispute most of it.

Teachings about Dharam Raj are very much in the Sakar Murli. As I sit here, I ask myself why it's not bothering me so much these days. I think because I am stronger in my esteem for myself, and am getting firmer all the time that a good spiritual life has so much love in it. That God is very loveful and I am enjoying expressing increasing love and positivity to others in my life; you know, friends, family, etc.

So I don't feel cut up or hurt or whipping myself about teachings that there is a final account of our karma before the world can change. I am actually quite sorry as it is for the many wrong things I've done. I've hurt people, even after leaving Raj Yoga. At times, I couldn't seem to help it. I believe if I die tomorrow some of that may come before me before I go to my next life story.

The real teaching of Dharam Raj as I believe it to be relates to karma. The teaching as I understand it is that all karma must come back to us, whether we like it or not. It doesn't mean I denigrate people who are suffering. I believe a real yogi learns ever more compassion and feels for the suffering of Brother souls. But knowing karma teaches me about how life really works deep down. And the teaching is meant to help me try and do better day to day.

One could perhaps argue that having a little "concern" about settling one's accounts of karma to Dharam Raj is constructive. Perhaps if one has bullet proof self esteem then it could be positive. But I've seen it go wrong too much. I fundamentally don't believe in fear as a constructive motivator. I think the only reason that it no longer upsets me reading that is that I now have a strong positive bedrock. So when I read, I only think about karma in the ways I've written here.

Anyway, it's actually noted in Sakar Murlis I've read that you should not dwell on points that upset. As a returning BK, you know I believe that's "straight from the horse's mouth". Really, we can easily self destruct. I firmly believe the Murli does not indicate we should destroy our own self esteem. So it's quite correct and wise to not dwell on points of spirituality that disturb us. I really believe we are like negativity junkies sometimes, ready to take anything in the worst possible light.


Moving on, the points you write about an organization taking responsibility for the welfare of its members, screening, etc are well made. I agree. I think the BK family have been clumsy at times. At the same time, I think enough spirituality, genuine peace from meditation, etc have shone through the failings to make it all worthwhile.


- Sword the true optimist

I think enough spirituality, genuine peace from meditation, etc have shone through the failings to make it all worthwhile.

Go and tell that to the Ranjana Patel's family. They lost both their children to it. I mean by suicide, not just leaving their family and joining the BKWSU.

"I am terribly sorry, madam ... two children ... both of your heirs ... how clumsy of us! But then ... that's your karma!" Here is some halva.

I don't know. I am left feeling that I just did not get the simple straightforward answer I was expecting to some simple straight forward questions.

So, what are your plans with your re-entry into the BK sphere then? Are you a reformer, would be guru or just in for the ride? There is quite a good business to be made out of their management coaching or New Age stuff.

The historical stuff is still worth some of your attention. The New Agey stuff is just fluff on the outside and not the real deal at all.

I would like to add about the duty of care.

Applying Knowledge practically becomes frustrating at times ... I've seen many examples when I was sincere follower.

Everyone seems to so selfish and self centered, stops thinking about others, becomes worried about his own karma, his future, and that too, not only for the present birth, he starts thinking for next 21 births. I've seen many examples while in group, people are so selfish, and it becomes imposible to be with them.

1. Denying accepting food from others, even from their spiritual family. People starts feeling guilty that our food is not accepted, so we are impure and we will be servants in future.

2. Expressing our grief to anyone is taken as weakness. It becomes the matter of fun for them, because they are soul consious and talking about grief is a sign of body consciousness.

There are so many small small examples can be given which makes it difficult to sustain in group.

If one is in favour apply it practically and become an example. Others will automatically follow.

Expressing our grief to anyone is taken as a weakness....

This is a dreadful state of being.... not to be able to express grief or pain, It is a terrible state for even one person to be in, and when a group of people are living such an intense, extraordinary if you like, way all suppressing their feelings their are bound to be eruptions of one kind or another. Often this kind of suppression results in manifestations of cruelty towards others.

... It becomes a matter of fun for them ...

And this is Shrimat ... In the Murli that Jannisder posted today, the versions that were to be read yesterday morning, children are told that they will never feel unwell or the weather conditions will never unfavorable in the new world. Which is great except that then (this is not a direct quote), if children are asked how they are now, they are to say why would you ask us that, we are always happy ... Now these are the teachings of God, setting up, what in any terms has to be seen as a psychologically damaging environment.

I have come to think that people who can live this life, picking the things they like and ignoring the negative stuff are suited to this organization. It seems to be down to, partly I would say, to a difference in personality. But it is not right to put down as weak those people who do not wish to be part of it. In fact, it often comes across very defensively. And there is nothing to be so defensive about. The majority of the posters on this site repeatedly say, if you read attentively, that they had amazing meditative experiences and that most of the BKs they knew were lovely people.

... because they are soul conscious and talking about grief is a sign of body consciousness ...

We would not grieve if we did not love. This kind of ego is another thing that makes "applying knowledge" in the BK environment frustrating and ultimately impossible for people who do not want to spend their lives in an environment of petty cruelties. Nishaybhuddi suggested going to the Dadis but that also is a tiresome way of living.

Sword of Justice

I agree that forgiveness is much better, and that the grace and beauty of the human spirit can be truly amazing. However, I heard so many BKs making insensitive remarks based on their recently acquired 'Knowledge', especially about karma, with neither experience or deep contemplation on a subject. Forgiveness is better, but it is not glib or easy.

Dharam Raj was probably a bad example. I understood it to mean that it was a reflection of the soul in comparison to the perfection of God, and I can relate to that concept.

I accept the belief in reincarnation and the Law of Karma. I have had impressions of living in different times from the time I was a child, even though the religion I was brought up did not accept it. The Law of Karma, is I think, probably a very deep study. These aspects are the least questioned on the forum I think, although I do have questions. I do not think that the BK teachings will answer them. They did not when I was there.

The Cycle is a different thing. There are loads of valid questions on that.

Will we get any answers???

Regards Starchild.
(By the way, are you calling me a hippy?? hee hee)

@Starchild the Hippy
With all that I've written I still find myself agreeing with what you've written, Starchild. I can see that what you criticise about BKs does happen. I personally feel it's a shame. I suppose when I come down to it, I somehow believe that the genuine meditation experiences that happen and what I believe is the underlying teachings outweigh the rest, the insensitivity. I don't like it though.

Cycle answers? It's fair to question all that. I'll probably end up posting what I personally believe at some stage; that might be an interesting discussion.

Eh, I feel I've already achieved what I wanted to achieve by posting here: food for thought to start constructive discussion and sincere help for anyone feeling depressed/suicidal.

@Ex-I
Reformer.

@because.parmeshwar
I find it a little hard to understand what you mean. Do you mean that BKs become selfish, focussed on one's own karma, etc? I think you mean that you have found BKs who won't accept food from you, even as part of the BK path, is that right?

It makes my heart sad. Yes, I've seen it too. Worried about their stage too much. Where is the generosity of spirit? I believe the path itself has some strong occuptional hazards, i.e. common traps and mistakes that are easy to fall into. I don't like seeing a lack of sensitivity in anyone, let alone someone who's meant to be studying spirituality.

Mind you, thinking about it, not everyone in BK is like that, not by a long shot. But like everywhere, you get different types of people. Some BKs I've met are quite down to earth and caring.

I am more determined than ever reading all this to keep the values I've expressed on this forum alive and well inside me, as I practice meditation again.

Cheers,
Pete

Reformer.

So, as a believer and a reformer ... please let us know how you get on.

I mean that genuinely. If you really are going to try and reform them, keep diary of it and let us see how it goes.

I am happy to post on how I get on mixing with BKs and following the path again. To be honest, I've only encountered one BK who is a bit fundamentalist so far. The rest have been quite easy going and lovely. They're all different, of course.

My thinking on reform is mainly to maintain compassion in the self and live whole heartedly while at the same time doing meditation and spiritual study. This is the answer for the issues that revolve around religious "uptightness": living in a heartfelt, healthy way and remaining compassionate while learning about karma, etc. I've learnt the hard way that positive thinking makes life easier, whether you're a BK or not. In fact it's got nothing to do with BK at all, it's just a fundamental life fact.

I won't shrink from discussing topics honestly while amongst BKs.

I hope I can remain feeling calm and be respectful to others in the moment if someone who is a BK makes a mistake. Maybe a few respectful gentle words might help them change? To even try is honourable. Otherwise, I am ultimately only responsible for my own actions. Non BKs make mistakes and are less than compassionate at times too. I hope my sincerity can influence them too.

Cheers,
Pete