SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

for discussing revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and updating information about the organisation
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noidentity

reforming BK

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post19 Feb 2010

I don't know about those Murlis that are now not available. I am not that old.. But in some Murlis it is said "even if this Brahma makes any mistakes" God is responsible to correct it. So I suppose, those "wrong" things go into this category.

Whom should we listen to? no one. That too is clearly said in the Murlis. If you listen to anyone and accept their things, it means you have (unnoticingly and unwillingly) become subservient to another person's mind (which is under the effect of his own past life and whatever else). Whether it is Dadi so and so or Sister so and so, it doesnt matter. We have to get rid of this hierarchy related to position from our minds. Seniors may say things contradicting the Murlis. They are human beings, they do not notice all their mistakes. It is up to us not to accept what is wrong. Have mercy on them!

PS: yes they are holding influential positions and affect so many thousands of people. But what can they do? That much is their understanding.
Actually you can help him by saying what he's wrong at.

because.parmeshwar

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post19 Feb 2010

"even if this Brahma makes any mistakes" God is responsible to correct it.

…and GOD is invisible, unholdable, uncatchable, and resides in Paramdham where no airplane, jetplane could reach to ask him the answers. This is the confidence trick BK uses, do every thing and drain it to poor GOD.

If you listen to anyone and accept their things, it means you have (unnoticingly and unwillingly) become subservient to another person's mind (which is under the effect of his own past life and whatever else). Whether it is Dadi so and so or Sister so and so, it doesnt matter.


Then who has given them right to preach infront of thousands? They make audio cassettes and also sells them.

The Seniors always expect very egoistically to follow them and accept their instructions. OK… as you say listen to GOD only, and if we do that following and remembering ShivBaba, the next day Murli will tell, you have to follow Brahma Baba also,... And when you go following BB, the next teaching will be, you have to
regard elders and keep following them ultimately the whole mess.

I request you not to suggest more, I will follow you and then tomorrow you will turn back…. :D (just kidding)

noidentity

reforming BK

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post19 Feb 2010

Well, someone has to preach something. :). If you say teachers need to be better, unfortunately, that's what we got at the moment. (As my boss at work said about his employees : that's the material available ... :) ).

We have to be cautious. Those wrong interpretations that they are giving to people; themselves are also suffering from that mindset ...

because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post19 Feb 2010

You said this statement
Whom should we listen to? no one.

Then why this thing is required
Well, someone has to preach something.

You are contradicting your own statements. Like Murlis, Senior BKs, do ...
If you say teachers need to be better, unfortunately, that's what we got at the moment.

Do you fuel your vehicle with kerosene, if petrol is not available? Or would you decide to go with other conveyance till petrol is available? Noidentity, these are endless, circular references, we are giving which do not have any end ... So, if you are a believer in BKs teachings, follow it yourself. I will decide what suits me ... OK, good bye, Omshanti

noidentity

reforming BK

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post19 Feb 2010

I havent told you to follow anything dear.

I think I'll be banned soon :).

What I meant was, without any classes, it wouldn't be ... When you first come, some class is better than no class.

Love and regards to all protesting Brothers and Sisters.

bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post20 Feb 2010

OK! So what is BK Raja Yoga?

Correct me if I am wrong.

BK Raja Yoga is the belief that God has been coming into the body of Dada Lekraj since 1936 and that both God and Dada Lekraj have been coming in the body of Dadi Gulzar since the death of Dada Lekraj in 1969, and that the teachings of God through those mediums is BK Raja Yoga.

All BKs know about the Murlis which they believe to be literal transcriptions of the words spoken by God. This we know is not entirely true. Many new BKs may not be aware of that but it is well known that the Sakar Murlis (Murlis spoken through Dad Lekraj) are edited. As others have said they used to be much longer. But let us assume that they are only cosmetic edits and that the essence of the teaching remains.

I would also like to point out that the Murlis available now date from around 1964 onwards. Anything before has either been destroyed or is being kept secret. It has been said that prior to 1964 or so, The Knowledge given by God had not been completely developed whilst what is available to us now is all we need to transform ourselves.

I would also like to say, since I do not know if it has been documented here before, that during my last visit at the BKWSU headquarters of Madhuban in Mount-Abu in 1988, it was explained in a class in Gyan Sarovar that there had been an instance where Dada Lekraj asked that the earlier Murli notes be destroyed because what had been taught in the earlier Murlis was wrong.

I do not know if it is true or if it is just another lie form the BK leadership but do you not think that it is strange that there would be such a discontinuity in God's teachings, so much that his original teachings had to be destroyed?

Let us assume again that they were just minor adjustments and that what is available to us now is truly what God wants us to know, for our own benefit.

It seems perfectly logic then to say that if we want to know what BK Raja Yoga is according to God, we will find it in the Murlis. Let me first establish that n the Murlis it is said that God teaches Raja Yoga. I hope we all agree on that and thus no one can tell us better than God what BK Raja Yoga is.

Well, in the Murlis God says that the aim and object of Raja Yoga is to become Lakshmi and Narayan, that is the first empress and emperor of Golden Age. He also says that in order to reach that aim one has to follow every Shrimat. Thus, if you are not following every Shrimat, if you are picking and choosing, you are not truly following BK Raja Yoga "as taught by God".

You may feel good about what you are doing, and I do not disrespect that, but to insinuate that what is being done here is biased seems to me to be a lack of intellectual integrity.

In the Murlis God teaches that in order for the new Golden Age world of Lakshmi and Narayan to become a reality, the old world has to be destroyed. The Murlis repeat "ad nauseam" that destruction is just ahead. God also says that the nuclear holocaust and cataclysmic natural calamities that will wipe out this old world and kill 6 billion people is a good thing. He also wants his children to give the message to the whole world. If you are BK Raja Yogis, please, be honest, follow Shrimat and print it in the newspaper that such is the message of God. Or will we have to do it?

In the Murlis God says that the biggest mistake, the root of all evil is to not know who God truly is. How come then that he waited until after 1950 before revealing himself if it is true that he had been speaking through Dada Lekraj since 1936?

The purpose of this site is clear: to tell the truth about BK Raja Yoga and to support ex, exiting and questioning BKs, as well as their friends and families and other people negatively impacted by the BK beliefs and practices. It is perfectly legitimate for such people to feel strongly about their negative experiences.

As far as telling the truth, it seems obvious to me that the BKs do a good job at showing up their bright side and that the role of this site in this respect is to warn the public about the hidden face of the BKs. ex-l, amongst others, has been very keen in providing evidence to support his affirmations. Many have shared their positive experiences with the BK meditation and value based teachings here and did not get the same treatment that you guys have been getting. Maybe there is something in your tone. Condescending? Sanctimonious?

If you say that it is God teaching, back it up. Show us the evidence. Explain the contradictions and the lies. We do not dismiss you having positive experiences but we are questioning what it is.

If you say that you know better how to use BK Raja Yoga than those who have been made instruments by God to run his Yagya, I suggest that you have the courage of your convictions, start your own group, show the proper path and bring benefit to many, or try to reform the BKWSU from within and thus minimize the damage done to innocent believers. Unless you feel that you should not get involved into someone else's karma ...
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swordofjustice

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post20 Feb 2010

Hmmm ... firstly, thanks everyone for posting.

Secondly, ex-I posted something specific to back his view. I have no dispute with that. I accept it happened exactly as he writes in terms of 1976 Destruction prediction and Dadi Janki buying land.

My point about dirty laundry was only to avoid having a thread with long lists of facts about wrong things when the people aren't here to defend themselves in case they would dispute that picture. So I only want a few choice examples.

Sorry, I don't have much hard fact to give you myself. I tell you what, I'll post a few small stories about what I've found since coming into contact with BKs again. I feel confident that those souls here in Australia wouldn't mind me using their names. That way, you can see my own small personal experience. My own stories won't change the other stuff that you guys and gals have written.

Thirdly, I can understand the criticism about Destruction teaching and how it can go so, so wrong. I accept that Seniors are responsible for their actions and so are partly accountable for the negative outcome for teaching that. I have resolved to post my understanding on Destruction teaching. It fits inside my own head in a way that is actually constructive.

But I find myself lost for words reading the criticism about 1976 because I see a lot of validity in your criticisms. So I am not going to argue against what you've posted.

I feel a great hurt in my heart when I see how BKRJ can go wrong sometimes and the first thought that comes to me is: how do I make it better. Yes, I am an idealist, so very much. I want everyone who touches BK to come away with a beautiful experience. I want senior BKs to wake up and be far more sensitive and careful with their words. I want BK leadership to ease up and engage with souls who question and criticise instead of squashing debate from a religious following of the spiritual path.

Fourthly, thanks for wading through my long posts, Searcher. I am finding out what a passionate soul I am underneath and it spills out into long internet posts. You are well entitled to ask me to back up my views with facts. I will actually do that a bit and hopefully that will suit.

Fifthly, the points about BK teaching mentioning souls who question and leave are "weak bricks". It's true. So I will *not* sit here and deny it.

Is there a problem with it? Yeah, I suppose there is. It's not empathetic to those in that situation. This happens at other times too in BK: some very strong words are said. What I find is, if you're self-esteem is strong then it doesn't upset one. If you are that person the point is referring, it can make you quite upset, it is an attack on your fragile self.

This goes against my instinct, my heart, because I am a 'softie'. There is a segment of the actual teaching (Murli) that has material like this. It bothered me again when I started reading Murli again two years ago.

Because I love the other content so much, I stuck with it. I consciously try to not take such sayings hard, I deliberately counter it with the masses of other content in the Murli. This way, I am achieving some of balance in my response to everything. Being a soul weak in self esteem through this life, criticism and "harden up" type comments get to me. Yet in my hard won adult intellect, I do see that very rarely in life you have to "harden up, sunshine". So I take such comments in that spirit but against the backdrop of oceans of positive and gentler spiritual thoughts in the Murli teachings.

Anyway, I can understand how it comes across. "You weak brick". Not exactly New Age, kind and lovely, is it? Anyway, I've explained how I deal with that kind of thing.

Sixthly, on reading the recent posts, it's become clear to me that some of the people posting on this forum were actually very dedicated and faithful BKs who did follow everything firmly, and sincerely studied the Murli. Like you Ex-I, from what you wrote. I find myself just accepting your view and why you left in that you lost respect for the Seniors and how it is run. I see you had strong reasons for that.

Seventhly (!), @bktipit You know, when I was hanging out in Surry Hills Centre in 1989-1990, I read a batch of what was said to be Sakar Murlis from the 1950s. They were a bit different. More Hindu references, they dealt mainly with sex and staying celibate. They had lots of strong language.

If anyone wants, I'll post in a separate thread about the path of celibacy as it's a big topic. But I don't think this is the right forum for BK teachings. You guys probably aint interested and like I said, I've come to accept you strong and valid reasons for your views.

In essence, many of the motivating points in Murli are strongly worded and very religious. It's not the sum total as there is so much that is gentle and loveful too. I believe those strongly worded points are meant to help us to do those difficult things like remain celibate, but also one has to so careful to not take them in negative manner. It is pitfall and easy one to fall into. Those 1950s Murlis were very "raw" lots of Hindu stuff I can hardly relate to. Has anyone ever read some of the material from the very start of the Yagya? I think some of it is available through this website.

Much of BK path is actually very religious. I, personally, don't like religion but I am coming to accept the presence of that massive religious element in BK. It leads one to those beautiful spiritual truths that I like, but it does have many, many, many pitfalls. I aim to dance my way around those while sticking faithfully to the genuine spiritual content.

And moving on, @bktipit Strong words, mate. Fair enough, I'll try to back up whatever I say.

You say one must follow every point of Shrimat and not "cherry pick" what you like. True ... yet at the same time, one of those directions of Shrimat says "have a broad intellect" which means: think on it and use your intellect to become stable, considered, mature, calm and wise. If you don't believe what I am saying is right, that I am actually breaching BK code of conduct and breaking Shrimat with that statement, we will have to agree to disagree.

Destruction teaching in every Murli. Yeah, it's in most. It's part of a body of teachings around that concept. I'll right now put up a thread to explain the full BK teaching on Destruction. There is nothing to hide, in my view. If written in that clumsy way you propose in a newspaper, it comes across in a narrow way so does the teaching no justice at all. People will read it in the wrong way as there is much more to the teachings on Destruction than just 6 billion souls are going to die.

Everyone here is also clear that three of the world's great religions: Christianity, Islam and Hinduism, teach the same thing? The world will end in their teaching. Does that bother you in the same way that it does with BKRJ? Maybe not; and that's interesting. Then what is bothersome is how BKs handle this area of teaching rather than the actual teaching itself, as people have gotten in a panic and sold their own houses due to this teaching on Destruction. That's the issue, is not it?

Again, you have to understand the teaching in its entirety. And if any senior has expressed it in a shallow way that encourages blind panic, they are responsible for wrong karma then.

My final thought is that I can see BK often goes quite wrong. I also see that there are problems in the practical running of it as an organisation. I also think this forum fulfills some good functions as follows: it allows souls who have had issues to express themselves; for those who are struggling and suppressed to find support and way to speak out and be heard; it challenges BK beliefs, methods, and so I hope that helps to awaken the intellect of practising BKs and through that to become more real in their practice of spirituality.

I accept many genuine critcisms of BK. I cannot, as a thinking and aware person, close my eyes and sweep some things under the carpet. The administration is too cold sometimes in how it deals with souls who question the path or have problems. I believe those souls need some level of help. I think there is too much trying to support BK path at any cost, so some topics are not discussed freely enough and some things get covered over. I don't like that actually. It does more harm than good in my view.

I also think the way it is written in this forum sometimes becomes very negative. Yet, I am pleasantly surprised at how mature and well reasoned many posts here from BKs who hate the BK path are.

I have seen with my own eyes so much level of religious worship in BK, including the worship in effect of the senior people in it, the Dadis. Yep, BKs are mostly like puppy dogs to Dadi Janki, they sometimes worship her in my opinion. They would not be far off from showering her in flowers and smearing sandalwood paste on her.

Is she worth doing that to? She is not God and never will be! Neither is the founder. No human being should be worshipped like that. However, I also look in her eyes and I see some genuine stuff there. I respect that for more than fifty years she has been getting up for meditation and has gained something solid from that. I also think her personality is sometimes judgemental. I see that as a flaw and my hope for her is that she removes that flaw.

Even given how much I accept as well founded criticism of BKRJ, I don't see that BK has a vile, black, malignant heart pulsing at its core, with those senior people deliberately trying to hurt or manipulate the whole world. I believe the many critcisms on this forum are well founded and based in fact, but I believe these problems in the Yagya, the BK organisation as it is in the practical, spring from very human flaws common in humanity. I also believe those senior people overall mean well.

Looking in their eyes, meeting them, talking to them, standing in their bedrooms, I believe they genuinely believe in what they're doing, even though they get it horribly wrong sometimes as already clarified on this forum. They don't go out the back and smoke drugs, wear bling, have wild sex parties, own twenty limousines, and live material lives while spewing out teachings they do not follow. No, they genuinely try to follow the teachings they speak on: they get up at 4 am and meditate, they think on Murli teachings, they genuinely believe they are doing God's bidding, they give up all their wealth and own nothing personally except for a hair brush and few small trinkets.

Apart from posting on Destruction, I won't be posting BK teaching anymore or arguing against posts by ex BKs on here. I can live peacefully with others who criticise BK. I aim to get something positive out of the BK path with its many flaws and I am happy to share my progress in that in a micro way for what it's worth, if you want (as Ex-I asked me to in a post some time ago).

I will endeavour to the best of my capacity remain a good and decent person no matter what I see or am told while mixing with BKs again. I swear to everyone on this forum that I will never allow myself to be manipulated or brain washed. You haven't met me, but that's just not who I am. I so far beyond that gullible puppy dog I once was twenty years ago. If I find BK has a pulsing black heart that does not serve God's beautiful universal spiritual truths that I love (you know, those commoon nice things that most religions have), I will leave BK forever more and never return. I sincerely don't see any such black malignant heart but I will keep my eyes very much open in case it hides behind closed doors.

My very best wishes and genuine respect to everyone on this forum, including ex-BKs with views of criticism. Wish me luck as a reformist BK!

Cheers,

Sword

P.S. My God, another massive post from me. I swear I am a frustrated author.
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ex-l

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post20 Feb 2010

swordofjustice wrote:You know, when I was hanging out in Surry Hills Centre in 1989-1990, I read a batch of what was said to be Sakar Murlis from the 1950s. They were a bit different. More Hindu references, they dealt mainly with sex and staying celibate. They had lots of strong language. Those 1950s Murlis were very "raw" lots of Hindu stuff I can hardly relate to. Has anyone ever read some of the material from the very start of the Yagya?

It would be really good if you could "liberate" those and publish them on the internet ... along with all the other Murlis. Folk cast me as some kind of anti-Christ towards the BKWSU ... idiots really ... but I find documenting the development of such a religion as the Brahma Kumaris, and the questions it raises, to be genuinely interesting. Look at all the BK memberships that come here ... surely the gates of hell from the leadership point of view ... just to find the Murlis that they are intellectually addicted.

If you want to do us all a favour, including BKs, just "Open Source" the whole religion. Stick it all on the internet.

It is only the hysterical, vain and narcissistic convolutions which Brahma Kumari adherents (or their leaders mainly), put themselves through that makes it so difficult and so messy. It was pretty much only the expensive legal action they started against this site, in an attempt to destroy us, that set the tone for anything afterwards.

Thanks for winding your PR speak down but I think your writing is still a little misleadingly inaccurate and you are not doing yourself by adopting such a tone here, e.g. which "senior" Brahma Kumaris bedrooms have you stood in? I would suspect that the level you are talking about are really just expendable, burn-outable followers, e.g.

    Do you mean "local center-in-charges", Lee James or Trust Fund Charlie?
They say, "indiscriminate charity is a sin". Giving away all of your money is not necessary wise nor a virtue. Yes, having someone think for you, make all major life decisions for you is hugely relieving for some people. Yes, chastity has it positive effects. Yes, a clean, disciplined life can be more productive ... but where is it all going?

I much prefer that those people gave their all to genuinely worthy practical causes but I think ... I know ... there is so much wrong with Brahma Kumaris. I agree with all the individual beneficial elements and effect ... it is the end to which it is being put that I do not.

clearernow

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post20 Feb 2010

Friends,

I accept of the postings that people have been harmed believing the Destruction philosophy and predictions and selling homes etc and clearly there are flaws in BKs that need to be rectified. I can see undercurrents of revenge, hatred and anger in some postings discarding the entire organization because of those experiences.

BKs need to have reforms in their leadership and have a clearly defined "Exit" wherein people do not end up in situations wherein they sold homes in the name of Destruction and now struggling ... I sincerely hope BKs take these as constructive feedback, reform and focus on the positive aspect of the teachings and practices ... and that's how people take it and not get used ... A reformed BK organization focusing on the core positive teachings will be nicer and I have high hopes it will happen as it evolves. When I establish more contact with senior BKs again, I will take this feedback to them and share with you their view when I get a chance.

Sorry for lengthy one again but I have been asked to show what benefits I had from BKs - I have been posting it in bits for some time but as intangible as they are, one can always question and I am sure even if I were to list them one by one, your excellent argumental power can challenge and try to convince that it didnt really come from the BKs. or that its not real. That wouldnt bother me :-)

Nevertheless here is short the benefits I derive(d) from BK practices and I am not alone, there are thousands who do:

Intangible :

    1.) From a restless state of being to a more peaceful and calm person
    2.) Experience of super sensuous joy and bliss and it wasnt restricted to "honeymoon" period. I have just finished my evening meditation and Yoga experience still is the same.
    3.) From a complaining person to a more contented and Happy person
    4.) Can literally see inner self in the mirror- a clear view of the negativities and qualities of the soul- beautiful insight into my inner world. For example, even a little hatred towards a human being troubles me, is shown to me in meditation, I start working on it reading Avyakt Murlis, and am at peace once the issue resolved through good wishes :-) Purification path really..
    5.) Emergence of latent qualities that I never seemed to have before.
    6.) Stronger will power and courage- leading to improved leadership skills helping me in my professional career (well its tangible actually :-)
    7.) Positive Attitude and Control on Mind focussing on purification of thoughts led to building a positive attitude in life which in turn has improved relationships a lot in Family and at Work. No I havent broken any of my relationships and Murlis never mentioned to leave any of the relations, just remain detached ... and tha'ts what I continue to practice..
    8.) The most precious one - relationship with God: I see the divine source helping me in situations, a deep connection like of a child to a Father, like a beloved, like a mother, like a friend ... cant be explained but experience is very clear, its only getting better ... no, it is not Dada Lekhraj ... till the time someone brings me a better way of connecting with God (any one please?) and receiving his love ... and understanding the truth, I am very very happy continuing and enriching this relationship. I am in love ... madly, blindly, whatever ... but its pure and unconditional love.
Tangible:

I suffered from 2 life threatening diseases early in life (for one of them, Doctors had warned it will make me suffer for life time till I ... as there was no cure). Laying on the hospital bed, I used to communicate to God for help and question him (pre-BK days). I was in tremendous darkness and grief, giving up hope of even living. Exactly when I needed it, BK Rajayoga transformed me from complete gloom to tremendous positivity inside, brought me closer to God, gave me clear understanding of life and gave me the courage to face up to it.

Within first 6 months of Raja Yoga, I was a transformed person - still remember the day I went for my check-up smiling at the Nurse completely detached from my sufferings and having 100% faith in the divine when she brought the result of my blood test. The critical disease was reversed without any medication in those 6 months. Miracle? Yes, for me ... Scientifically possible? Yes, for one in a million ... and I can thank God a million times (no, cant thank enough) for that.

You can say coincidence, but my heart is filled with Gratitude to the divine source and will till the last breath of this life.

Peace.

jann

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post20 Feb 2010

1.) From a restless state of being to a more peaceful and calm person
2.) Experience of super sensuous joy and bliss and it wasnt restricted to "honeymoon" period. I have just finished my evening meditation and Yoga experience still is the same.
3.) From a complaining person to a more contented and Happy person
4.) Can literally see inner self in the mirror- a clear view of the negativities and qualities of the soul- beautiful insight into my inner world. For example, even a little hatred towards a human being troubles me, is shown to me in meditation, I start working on it reading Avyakt Murlis, and am at peace once the issue resolved through good wishes :-) Purification path really..
5.) Emergence of latent qualities that I never seemed to have before.
6.) Stronger will power and courage- leading to improved leadership skills helping me in my professional career (well its tangible actually :-)
7.) Positive Attitude and Control on Mind focussing on purification of thoughts led to building a positive attitude in life which in turn has improved relationships a lot in Family and at Work. No I havent broken any of my relationships and Murlis never mentioned to leave any of the relations, just remain detached ... and tha'ts what I continue to practice..
8.) The most precious one - relationship with God: I see the divine source helping me in situations, a deep connection like of a child to a Father, like a beloved, like a mother, like a friend ... cant be explained but experience is very clear, its only getting better ... no its not Dada Lekhraj...till the time someone brings me a better way of connecting with God (any one please?) and receiving his love ... and understanding the truth, I am very very happy continuing and enriching this relationship. I am in love ... madly, blindly, whatever ... but its pure and unconditional love.

Well, I had all that BEFORE I met BK! I asked some questions and see how my BK friend was TOLD to leave me!!!! That's more than just detach. I am Bad, a devil, bad company, a dirty body and most of all ... I am a WOMAN!!!!!

Too bad for him I am his only source of care. Lose me, then what ? BK knowledge does not go that far does it? So how to explain the Godly love? Unconditional love? BK love is conditional, even BK God's love is conditional.

Do not be fooled.

because.parmeshwar

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Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post20 Feb 2010

clearernow wrote:I suffered from 2 life threatening diseases early in life (for one of them, Doctors had warned it will make me suffer for life time till I ... as there was no cure)- Laying on the hospital bed, I used to communicate to God for help and question him (pre-BK days)..I was in tremendous darkness and grief- given up hope of even living. Exactly when I needed it, BK Rajayoga transformed me from complete gloom to tremendous positivity inside, brought me closer to God, gave me clear understanding of life and gave me the courage to face up to it.

Within first 6 months of Raja Yoga, I was a transformed person - still remember the day I went for my check-up smiling at the Nurse completely detached from my sufferings and having 100% faith in the divine when she brought the result of my blood test. The critical disease was reversed without any medication in those 6 months. Miracle? Yes, for me ... Scientifically possilble? Yes, for one in a million ... and I can thank God a million times (no, cant thank enough) for that. You can say coincidence, but my heart is filled with Gratitude to the divine source and will till the last breath of this life ...

Congratulations for your recovery ... yes, we should be always thankful to GOD almighty ... HEALING MIRACLES.
I was talking to John, a customer at my newspaper shop, about the miracles of Sai Baba and I felt so sorry for him that gave the man some of vibhuti ash. Sometime ago he had damaged his neck and the doctors said that there was nothing more they could do for him. He had over the years visited many specialists and private doctors. I gave him four packets ovibhuti and a photograph of Sai Baba. The vibhuti I gave him had been given to me by Dr D Gadhia who is a very old devotee who has been helping teach Baba's teachings about love, truth, right conduct, non-violence and peace.

This vibhuti was in fact extracted from his own body coming out of his hands and from his legs particularly at night. This phenomena lasted for three months and everyday devotees from all over the UK were going to his home in Leicester to see him and would see vibhuti everywhere - even in his bed sheets. I told him to keep these packets under his pillow and under his bedsheet. I also told him to pray to his own chosen God incarnation. I believe he prayed to the Lord Jesus Christ.

John also told me how during the healing process the photo of Sai Baba would move from room to room yet there were no children or pets in the house that could of done this when his back was turned. This is just one example of healing that Baba can do. Within a week John could turn his neck 45 degrees. I two weeks he was fully cured and could hold his head straight and without any pain. He returned to my shop to thank me "It has nothing to do with me" I said "It is Baba who has blessed you."

Sounds familiar? Generated Faith ...? Now surreder to Satya Sai Baba ... agreed? ... No? Why???? OK ... There are many, many, many ... search it at various Babas.

No body is atleast telling you to forget body, bodily relatives, surrender mind, body and soul, money, so that 6,000,000,000 plus human beings would die during an imminent and desirable ‘End of the World’ called “Destruction”, in order that 900,000 faithfuls inherit a heaven on earth before 2036 and achieve royal status in heaven.

clearernow

BK supporter

  • Posts: 93
  • Joined: 17 Jan 2010

Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post20 Feb 2010

Was expecting this response :-) :-) :-).
"I have been posting it in bits for some time but as intangible as they are, one can always question and I am sure even if I were to list them one by one, your excellent argumental power can challenge and try to convince that it didnt really come from the BKs..or that its not real..That wouldnt bother me :-)"

Thank you for your wishes. I have done my own research on the miracles and other spiritual paths such as Sathya Sai baba- do not digress to those, you can find beauty and flaws in each of those as well and go on about it. I am sure if one starts a debate on those Vibhutis, it can go on and on.

A prominent Magician once challenged Sathya Baba to come on stage and compete with him and produce not a Vibhuti but a large Pumpkin. He refused. So you can now debate that he is hideous and deceiving people though his Vibhutis seem to work with some people. Search for controversies and critics of Sai Baba and you will get more of them on internet than Brahma Kumaris. Anyway, thats not the point.

I had the experience of dire negative to extreme positive in Rajayoga through self practice, experimentation and experience not through a magic Wand and miracle doesnt drive me into belief but experience does. You had negative experiences that you could have possibly had on other spiritual paths as well just as you are suggesting that positive experiences are possible on other paths. I never deny that positive experiences can come from many aspects of life and other paths and not restricted inside a BK closet. Neither I can prove your negative experiences to be incorrect because they are real too nor can you prove my positive experiences that way.

That's not the point Parmeshwar. But every soul has a journey, path and a destination. What works for me may not work for others and vice versa. If you have serious interest in exploring alternatives, I encourage you not to waste time on BKs and rather explore and find a new path that suits you if you need. I have found mine atleast for the moment.

And I am not in love with any BKs, Jannisder. It is actually great that you had all those experiences without BKs, its good and you are then way ahead than me on this journey so I congratulate you. For me, it never mattered what their leadership is. I experience God's love that is pure and unconditional thats what I focus on. I cannot describe in words what that experience is and I will not attempt to describe or prove that to convince you.

If you have ever been in true love with anyone in life, can you prove it to others? If someone tells you that do not fool yourself - thats not pure or unconditional, what will you do? BKs or their practices happens to be just a medium not the destination. I do not have a problem changing the medium if someone can find me a better one to bring God closer to life.

because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

  • Posts: 281
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2009

Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post21 Feb 2010

I hope you were expecting the following response ...

This is again BKs typical habit, They will never tell, what is going to happen, but afterwards, they will say, "oh, the same I was predicting" and what they predict never happens ... :-?.
clearernow wrote:every soul has a journey, path and a destination.
Whilst sailing on the boat of BK, Journey and Path: Forget your body, bodily relatives, and be detatched, keep yourself safe from other religions, as all of them are shudras, the devils. Only Brahmins are pure as they are the only direct children of GOD. Surrender you mind, body and soul, do not think-it will be treated as “Manmat”, only follow the Shrimat, Do not read, listen to others, it will be treated as “Parmat”

Destination : Destruction – Yes, following this path, the Destruction is certain ... not of the world ... but of the self. Many times the World’s Destruction has failed ... but self-destruction has happened, (see here, here, here, here, here, and here).
If you have serious interest in exploring alternatives, I encourage you not to waste time on BKs and rather explore and find a new path that suits you if you need

I do not have any interest in exploring anything, it was only to show you the familiarity, and how people are hooked in the organisation. Anyway thank you for your encouragement, but I will definitely do my seva of making peope aware of real face of BK and letting them know that GOD is not only BK’s property, and GOD is not “FOR SALE”
I have found mine atleast for the moment.

For the moment ...???
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bkti-pit

Independent, free thinking BK

  • Posts: 509
  • Joined: 14 Jun 2007

Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post22 Feb 2010

To swordofjustice and clearenow:

I also thank you for winding down your PR speak. I think I understand your position better and I respect that. I was holding a similar position myself. I did it for 25 years, following all disciplines, dedicating myself totally, literally giving my bones, but allowing myself to interpret The Knowledge in a way that would make sense to me.

However, in doing so I was not following every Shrimat and thus I was not strictly following BK Raja Yoga. For each reference I could find in the Murlis to back up my interpretations I could find a bunch that would indicate otherwise but I chose to ignore them.

With time my conscience became more and more uncomfortable with many of the ways of the Yagya (lies, hypocrisy, political maneuvering, etc) and I was seriously considering walking away from it whilst maintaining the BK lifestyle. I still had the faith that it was Gos behind it all and I was thinking that he must have had his reasons why he would let his Yagya be so dishonest and so insensitive and not do or say anything about it. I was however getting closer to the point where I would rather follow my conscience than keep supporting God's Yagya.

This is where I was when I found this website. It was a big eye opener for me to find out that there was no God Shiva in the BK knowledge until 1950 whilst pretty much everything else in The Knowledge was there already (the 5000 years cycle, the five vices, Laksmi-Narayan, etc). It was God Brahma who was considered as the Seed, the Almughty, the Creator and so on, but there was no mention of what is considered to be the most important aspect of The Knowledge: unadulterated remembrance of Incorporeal God Shiva, the Purifier.

It is said in the Murli that it is Shiva who gave that name "Brahma" to Dada Lekraj. It is also said that Shiv Baba started coming in Dada's body in 1936 and that he had been teaching The Knowledge from then and that his first words were: "I am Shiva, I am Shiva..." If that was true, how come Shiv Baba would have allowed it to go on for so long before making it clear about the most important aspect? And if there is a good answer to that, why has it been hidden from us?

The only credible answer for me is that it is a big lie. All those who were there at the time must know when and how the shift from God Brahma to God Shiva happened. It would be interesting to know. Did they simply have such a faith in their God Brahma that when he changed his mind to "Oh it is God Shiva speaking through me..." they accepted it without question? In which case I guess that in their eyes rewriting their history was simply a benevolent tactic (yukti) inspired by God in order to benefit the world.

I am left with the question of what was the nature of my meditation experiences. Where they really experiences of God? I could also make a list of the personal benefits I drew from my beliefs and practices as a BK, including recovery from seriously incapacitating spine injury about which my orthopedist told me that nothing could be done, but does it prove it is God? I have been allowing myself to doubt it. I think it is the only sensible position that I can take for now and I do feel very good about it.

bhupendra

friends or family of a BK

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 07 Feb 2010

Re: SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Post22 Feb 2010

I did it for 25 years, following all disciplines, dedicating myself totally, literally giving my bones, but allowing myself to interpret The Knowledge in a way that would make sense to me.

25 long years ... BKTIPIT how did you managed yourself after coming back? I request you to read the, "HELP NEEDED FOR MY Brother" topic and kindly advice us about the future life after leaving the organisation.

He wants to go with the meditation, and following disciplines of the Yagya, but not ready to go to centre as the BK circle is not suiting him.

Is it possible to continue the disciplines of Yagya without being involved in the organisation?
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