11 Jan 2010
Hi SwordofJustice,
I do not wish to either shoot you down or bombard you as I think this type of dialogue is useful and helpful but I would like to make some comments.
Most of us know the information that you posted and most of us liked these theories when we heard them. We liked it enough to decide to give our lives over to these beliefs.
However, to go through some of your points.
The Soul.
Many people writing on this site still feel strongly that they are spiritual people so I guess they would still feel that their basic nature is spiritual. When you read their experiences you can hear that most are genuine good people , many who feel a sense of huge spiritual betrayal. The BK's explanation for this is a coverall one. ie. they just were not good enough, (their karma was not right, I would like to come back to that in the karma discussion ). This of course adds to the confusion and loss experienced by the individual. In other words if you do not fit in, or do not want to , you are not the chosen, thus abdicating the organization of all responsibility. If nothing else it is a very cruel way to treat people who, even if they were foolish to invest such an amount of trust, they are certainly encouraged to do so, to the point of surrendering their very bodies and mind. Then they are shunned if it does not work out for them.
Unfortunately, although one of your main points seems to be that individuals are not responding to the teachings in a mature balanced way, the organization certainly does not take into account when they are recruiting whether the aspirants are suitable, as someone else recently pointed out , a "university" tests the suitability of the candidates for the courses they apply for.
Can you separate the organization from the teachings. ?
Also, you believe you say in the truth of what you have been taught, Mind, Intellect , Personality. Its impossible to argue with. I think though that it a typical example of using unarguable truths to hook people in. However, it does not mean that everything they say is the whole truth. Many spiritual paths although recognizing that mind , intellect and personality are components of the individual soul would not agree with BK package. For example their are different opinions of where exactly the soul resides in the body.
Which brings me to the meditation method, based only on the third eye chakra which is widely considered to be imbalanced leading to the spaced out confusion that some experience. The responsibility for the teaching of the method, and the resulting effect on the individual rests squarely on the shoulders of the organization offering the course. Perhaps it is one of the reasons they do not charge initially.
Personally I believe the method is designed to,( yes connect the person to a deep part of themselves, but it is a crash course, which is in itself an irresponsibility, ) but also to give the organization access to the qualities of the individuals for the greater good of the group. There is also the issue of the infantilization of individuals and using them, as ex-l has recently mentioned; as mediums, instruments and so forth WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE OR CONSENT. In fact part of the teaching is that you should not use your own mind. !!
You point out that seeing individuals as souls is a lovely way to relate, even murderers and racists you can see in their original lovely selves. To be brutally frank, I consider that to be more than naive, and I would like to hear anyone whose child or Sister or any close loved who has been raped or murdered , stand on front of an unrepentant monster and sweetly see their original goodness. I am not saying that it is not possible, but I would only accept that from someone who had experienced it.
God.
Initially the BK's teach that God is a benevolent and all loving being and then you get the rest Can you deny that they also teach Dharm Raj (the ultimate judge). I recall numerous very frightening analogies - ground like mustard seeds, - The soul being compared to an old cloth which Baba is washing, some of the cloths being in such tatters that they cannot be salvaged, traitors and so on. And of course souls are dirty, impure and vicious. If anyone leaves they have divorced the Father and will experience terrible punishment . If they engage in a physical relationship with another human being they might as well jump off a building, which tragically happened, when a young woman in great distress was ostracized by these people who consider themselves to be the highest on high souls. Higher even than the Buddha or Jesus.
These things are taught on a daily basis as knowledge directly from their God.
You say that people should take the points of the Murli that agrees with them and ignore the rest, but the they tell us this is the highest God speaking. What kind of an all loving God would speak like this.
Jannisder speaks about the fact that good people live their lives without a need for God, which is true and perhaps they are the happier people, however, many people in every culture feel a need for spiritual sustenance, and time and again on this site, and through my own experience , we hear of people who felt reasonably happy in their beliefs and relationship with their God, who, following the BK experience, find it difficult to either return to their previous beliefs or find a new path. It is I think part of the nature of feeling spiritually abused and betrayed. A shattered trust is very difficult to overcome.
Reincarnation and Karma.
It is difficult to present a Law of Karma without a theory of reincarnation because it is so obvious that the suffering of small children and innocents cannot be attributed to their actions in this life. It's a big subject and one I would like to get back to, (especially as the BK take) as also I would like to make comments on The Cycle and other aspects, but I also need to go to do some work and shopping and so forth, (karma Yoga).
For the moment I would like to say that the BK organization does not tolerate open questions or discussion on these subject , in fact there are group dynamics to ostracize those who try, so tell me, where is the all loving, just God in all this?? There is plenty going on to inspire doubt, but surely a perfect God would know that it is natural and healthy to question and doubt and the response would not be to silence and get rid of questioners.
Regards Starchild.