SwordofJustice ... what is 'BK Raja Yoga'?

Yes, I could agree that they are not just from a human spirit. And, yes, I do think the Brahma Kumaris and their spirit guides would hold onto you even after 5 years. They will take anyone back.

But, please, let us agree on one thing. It is not Raja Yoga. Raja Yoga was systematized by Patanajali more than 2,000 years ago. What the Brahma Kumaris teach is not Raja Yoga. It is something new. Please, don't steal other people's names, terms and reputations.

Dear Brother,

I am happy for where I am now and more than happy to receive divine help keeping that connection. I am amazed that you are suggesting those spirits are so powerful to hold on to someone who quit that path and yet not harm him but continue to help him and give the experience of peace, happiness and love that's simply indescribable!! is not that divine in itself? If that source is so negative and deceiving in nature as you want others to believe, why does it continue to help me? Why not simply harm me, make me miserable (thats what evil souls supposedly do) and that way I will be pulled back more easily out of fear. What is so positive about that spirit? And thats what I continue to say, please do not make imaginary claims and generalize it.

And no problems with not calling it Rajayoga - what's in a name? Lets call it Rajayoga 2010, BK Yoga, meditation or whatever makes your comfortable. The experience doesn't change with the name.

Why not simply harm me, make me miserable (thats what evil souls supposedly do) and that way I will be pulled back more easily out of fear.

You are putting a lot of words into my mouth here which I did not actually say.

I disagree with you. You get a lot more out of people if you love them and flatter them than make them afraid. It is a much more subtle distortion and control. It is the way spirits and medium work.

It is simple. If you want to hook someone, you don't tell them lies and scare them ... they will run and put up defences.

So you sweet talk. You make them feel special. Grandiose. fill them with 'Global' enthusiasm. You tell them 9 truths ... and then on the 10th. you've got them hooked. Hooked for life. Telling someone to "just try it ... just suspend disbelief" is a typical yukti. A typical BK yukti too. (Drug dealers do it too).

Gradually, the wheel is then turned. "Truth" becomes "Falsehood". "Light" becomes "illusion". What was free, starts to cost your life ... your whole life. Man, tan and dan. You know the old story of cooking a frog in a pot slowly. Read up on the Stockholm Effect.

Now ... IF ... BapDada and his agents ... HAD ... always been honest, factual, true and law abiding ... there would be no criticizing them.

The problem is, they have not. Quite the opposite. From very early on, let's say at least 1950, they have been dishonest ... deeply and increasingly dishonest. They have hidden and erased facts, and replaced them with fabrications and illusions. And they have not been law abiding ... they continue to bend and stretch laws to suit themselves.

You cannot tell me that ... ANY ... of that is divine regardless of how high it makes you feel. What is their response to having been exposed?

This has been an interesting thread to read. I really appreciate some of the posts on here. Certainly, coming to this forum has given me food for thought.

My final thought for this thread is that much is made of BK teaching changing. It is basically put that these changes mean it is false and that BKs are essentially lying about it.

BK has evolved since inception through 1936, 1950, etc. Let me put a new perspective forward; and you may not agree. That's fine with me but it is an interesting idea none the less.

For starters, the information about the early beliefs is available. I heard about it from BKs. So not so secret actually.

Secondly, is it wrong for a group of souls who found spirituality and had amazing experiences to evolve and develop? You know, to evolve in their beliefs, their practices, the emphasis they place on parts of the teachings they espouse. Is it wrong?

Should you dismiss spiritual concepts because the practicioners of the path were perhaps more religious once upon a time, perhaps more fundamentalist and strict? Should you dismiss it because they at first taught it in a more Hindu perspective, as per the culture of the nation where this path was founded? I don't believe so. Truth has that universal quality to it.

Let me encapsulate my understanding of the history of the "BK movement". The beginnings of BK were in India when Lekhraj and a few others starting having amazing experiences. They then formed Om Mandali, and started their teachings. As I understand it, it was pretty much hinduism. Lekhraj thought he was God as there was that experience of power and spirituality that people were having. People were having trance visions and more. Pretty amazing stuff.

Then he had an experience that clarified he is not God himself, but God is inspiring the teaching of this path. So he very faithfully surrendered himself to that and tried to put it all into practice and the movement went forward from there. In the classes that he spoke it is taught that he himself speaks from his experience, and also that the higher power is speaking also.

So then we have the path coming to the West. I do not for one minute doubt what Ex-I or other ex-BKs say about how it was taught. Extremely strict, Hindu references everywhere, taught in a clumsy way (one could argue), follow it or be DOOMED. How sad that such human flaws of lack of compassion should interfere with teachings that are meant to be about universal love, peace, God, etc. But there you have it. I believe that there are still many practitioners of BK who are basically just following a religion and mouthing it without taking it inside in a more real way. Eh, I wish them well and know they are on a journey too. I wish that they open up more.

So, is that a clear, open and honest assessment of BK history? I just want to say that none of that bothers me personally. I see that the real truths about life that I enjoy so much and that resonate with me were always there in BKRY, no matter the stage of understanding of any particular practitioner. And that includes souls like Dadi Janki and the rest of them. Whether they were blind in still following something mostly Hindu in the past, or not: I don't care.

In the Murli, when you are filled with self esteem and a calm state of mind you will find beautiful thoughts on universal truths. And with that calmness, you can find some balanced view on the firm words that are there to teach something to us. So that is what I look to.

Does it surprise anyone that human beings are flawed? Even senior figures in BKWSU. And do you believe it makes the path worthless because the human beings who are instrumental in teaching it have changed with time and developed? Obviously from my posts, I don't.


Anyway, someone asked whether I am practicing BK Raj Yoga because I have these "touchy-feely" views on it?

Well, I'll give you a really honest answer. Over the last two years since I started getting in touch with it again, not so much. Most of the Maryadas principles have eluded me though I've dabbled. It's taken me a lot of time to sort out myself with my personal challenges, and it's taken a lot of time to understand the BK path and what I really want in life. But I am now in a place to take it up more fully.

But the real crux of the question is whether these "New Age" views are actually really BKWSU Raj Yoga or just my own ideas. Feeling good about myself, maintaining a calm and balanced perspective, gently practicing the methods and principles - I feel that all these are bringing me much closer to the divine than ever before. How can you feel connected with the universal power of love if you yourself do not feel a lot of love in your life? How can you be with God closely if you are not content and peaceful in your daily life?

I assert that divinity is at the core of Raj Yoga teachings. So this kind and "touchy feely" view I have of the BK path is definitely the real path. We can stuff any path up with our narrow views, with negativity in its many forms. I suspect many ex-BKs lost sight of the good stuff and bought into a lot of religious negativity which wrecked what is otherwise a wonderful and universal view on the world. I also think that many people are OK with strict religion and it doesn't affect them so badly and that's why they stayed with BK for all those years.

I suspect that you will want to raise issues with BK money raising again, Ex-I, as that is a foundation criticism you have of the BKWSU. I believe you no doubt express a view that a number of ex-BKs hold. I want to raise a fresh thread to discuss that. Can we leave this thread now and discuss that separately? I have some thoughts about money raising which might be worth chatting about.

Cheers,
Pete

Pete the only concern I have is, there is not any safeguards in place for policing the hierarchy of the organisation structure. There is an attitude that everyone is Baba's child and therefore cannot be that bad. This is too lax and does not work.

The reality is that even if you are acting as much as you can as an instrument in karma Yoga, bad things do still happen. Put it another way, mistakes are made ... whether it's Baba's true children, or his step children, mistakes happen. No-one ever gets more than an 'ear-bashing' (a real term used by insiders) for doing really bad things to other well meaning innocent devotees, and the victims seem to be almost blamed karmically for their ordeals at the hands of higher instruments.

I have no idea what "worth" or even "effect" what I write has. Attending "class" at this forum has taught me a great deal about the BKs and the BK movement. None of it is positive. I find that to be true even where there are the rare practically beneficial projects, like the Village Project ... because it is either done under the clouds of spiritual deceptions, or mercilessly milked for its PR value in defense of the clouds of spiritual deception.

No, my main critique is not financial but that obviously goes along with the aspirant middle class or merchant caste values of the organization and the habit of the practise of untruths. My main critique is focused on the spiritual tradition and methods of the Brahma Kumaris, of which Mr Green knows very well how it is lacking. It is hard for me to think you were ever actually "in" on the inside and not just a spiritual drifter at the outsides. I wonder how seriously the leadership took you.

One of the key spiritual deceptions of the Brahma Kumaris is the confusion of their god, their spirit guides, whatever 'collective consciousness' that rules them ... with the "God-God" of other people. You are carrying that on too. The difference is not clear in your mind.

This is the problem with the outer realms of the Brahma Kumari, there is a lot of self-serving invention and false affirmations of what the Brahma Kumaris are really all about, what's going on. The leadership are happy with this as it blurs the picture. Again, falsehood versus reality.

(Actually, in truth, I might exclude the Village Project from my critique because it seems Lakshmi Vinay really stepped from under the control of the leadership and against their will and went and did something good ... as many of the good things that have happened did.).

BK has evolved since inception through 1936, 1950, etc. ... For starters, the information about the early beliefs is available. I heard about it from BKs. So not so secret actually. ... Secondly, is it wrong for a group of souls who found spirituality and had amazing experiences to evolve and develop? You know, to evolve in their beliefs, their practices, the emphasis they place on parts of the teachings they espouse. Is it wrong?

What is evolution ... what deterioration and compromise ... ?

What you are saying here is not true. Or at least was not true before the PBKs started their work and we started our work here. And, of course, you are really not saying anything. Please be specific about what information is available.

If it is "available", why do the teachers' manuals and hagiographic fairy stories they sell, still present the fairy story version?

There is a lack of clarity in your mind between "finding spirituality" and "falling under unknown psychic influences". The Om Mandli Brahma Kumaris did the latter. You have not been given a true account of what happened during that period.

Lekhraj thought he was God as there was that experience of power and spirituality that people were having. People were having trance visions and more. Pretty amazing stuff. Then he had an experience that clarified he is not God himself, but God is inspiring the teaching of this path. So, is that a clear, open and honest assessment of BK history?

No, not at all. It is a kind of 'back of the Cornflake package' advertisement version. When was "then". Who, how, why, what and when?

Do Seniors really say you are "failed"? Even when I left 20 years ago no one said that to me. Even if someone said that, don't listen to that kind of crap. Human error once more.

Of course ... you get "divine pronouncements" about how so-and-so is "not Baba's child anymore", mind games and all that stuff going on!!! It is what is said in the Murlis time and time again.

Which draws me to the other major compromises, the unaccounted re-writing and 'adjustments' of the Murlis to give a false impression of their god, and BKs manipulative use of them. "The Murlis are all God's words and so therefore must be true" ... even when they are wrong or we changed them.

You see, my critique is actually of 'the way' of the Brahma Kumaris ... their modus operandi ... the 'mode of operation' of their spirit guides (if they exist) ... not what they say about themselves; their ethics, their professionalism, their social and political model which is not very evolved at all. It is not even competent by today's standards ... and, yes, a large part of it right now is about raking in the cash. Having to rake in the cash to sustain the edifices (both real and imagined) that they have built.

My final response to you would be to ask you again whether the spiritual comfort zone you speak about really is Brahma Kumarism, and why you would want or need to align yourself with them again? In my opinion, it is not. You are risking projecting your own philosophical view on top of theirs and that it is just a kind of general, eclectic new age-ism which is perfectly good in its own right. It would be damned hard work to find it in the Sakar or even Avyakt Murlis.

OK, if you are getting older and the party scene etc no longer appeals, I can understand the attraction of going around to sit quietly with the old folk at the BKWSU center, not to be hassled by people and to have unchallenging philosophical new agey chit-chat. But what I think will happen there is, essentially, you will be used.

Their aim is to take and use ... all for the purpose of their 'End-of-the-World-earn-a-high-status' nightmare.

Pete the only concern I have is, there is not any safeguards in place for policing the hierarchy of the organisation structure. There is an attitude that everyone is Baba's child and therefore cannot be that bad. This is too lax and does not work.

The reality is that even if you are acting as much as you can as an instrument in karma Yoga, bad things do still happen. Put it another way, mistakes are made ... whether it's Baba's true children, or his step children, mistakes happen. No-one ever gets more than an 'ear-bashing' (a real term used by insiders) for doing really bad things to other well meaning innocent devotees, and the victims seem to be almost blamed karmically for their ordeals at the hands of higher instruments.

I would see great value in having more safeguards. It doesn't change the fundamental spiritual teaching; it is a practical measure dealing with the world and human beings and what people are capable of.

Shrugging off mistakes by senior people in BK is hardly... accurate?

Yet I am minded that the Murlis already contain the material to live well and to treat others well. So senior people in BK must learn from that as much as any humble, on the outside student like myself.

Cheers,
Pete

@ex-I
Long reply. Yeah, I'll respond. I hope you can detect that I am being open and honest in what I write.

- OK I understand. Your criticism is way more than just financial. That's pretty clear now from what you wrote.


- You claim I am not clear, etc. In essence though, you're simply restating your very firm view on what BK is about. To quote you:

"there is a lot of self-serving invention and false affirmations of what the Brahma Kumaris are really all about, what's going on."

This is just another way of you stating what you believe is "really going on". So really it's a value judgement.


- As a side point, it's easy to end up arguing language and semantics. We're both mature adults so let's agree to not get into any of that. I want to discuss concepts as I am sure you do. I'll try and listen to the content of what you're writing.


- Me ever actually "in"?. Hmmm... probably not in some ways. Depends on what you mean, of course.

I was a very sincere BK at the time and looking back, I am certain that was seen and acknowledged. I gave the course a number of times. I never lived in a centre but I did live in a "bhavan". For outsiders, that's a household where everyone is a practising BK, so everyone gets up for meditation. I did mean everything I did and I was completely celibate and followed all the aspects of the life.

So probably not that "in". I might PM you one day to ask if you'd share some of your story. I get the strong impression you were right in the centres, etc. So that's more "in" than me.

What can I say though? I was a firm, dedicated and sincere practitioner at the time.

I did not sit in service meetings to see things that go on behind closed doors. I have a friend right now who has basically left BK after 14 years off and on and she did live in centres and saw all that. She says that the goings on is one of her main issues with the path. Her objection actually is with the organisation, to use her words. She can actually be quite passionate about sticking up for the spiritual aspects of the whole thing (God, etc)! I have asked her to tell me those stories. I want to know. I suspect I won't be as shocked as I would have been years ago. I hope I've grown more wise to the ways of the world and people these days.


- To quote you again:

"What is evolution ... what deterioration and compromise ... ?

What you are saying here is not true. Or at least was not true before the PBKs started their work and we started our work here. And, of course, you are really not saying anything. Please be specific about what information is available."

Very specifically I am referring back to our discussion on positive thinking classes, and so on. You flagged that only the raw teachings were given in earlier days and with a heavy Hindu reference and said none of these classes on self esteem existed.

To give you a more recent example of this trend, did you know that the australian BKWSU has just initiated a formal management committee in the same form as a corporation? One of the topics is legal OH&S compliance, and so on.

I call both of these aspects an evolution. Don't you, ex-I? Why would you call it a degeneration? I can almost hear you saying that the latter example is just BKWSU covering their asses.... but I won't put words in your mouth. I can see why you would say that given your views. But I like it - I think it shows more connection with the world, with the law of the country. And I hope that this also reflects a greater sense of care towards those who come into the organisation's sphere of influence. Does that make sense? I am meaning to act with care for people who might have genuine mental health issues, etc. I have heard of a number of reforms in Australian BKWSU specifically aimed at that.

I am by my own admission very much a fringe dweller these days.


- Next quote:

"No, not at all. It is a kind of 'back of the Cornflake package' advertisement version. When was "then". Who, how, why, what and when?"

A colourful comment. :) Anyway, I really don't have masses of specific in depth Yagya gossip to give you. If you lived in the centres when you were a BK in that distant past you would know who said what to whom and about what. I suspect from what you've expressed about BK that you found the inner workings of the organisation to be less than desirable. You would be better placed to provide facts.

It's funny you should raise this issue actually. I was actually to say the same about the large pool of criticism on this forum towards BK. There is a lot of viewpoint but very little substantive fact. Like specific cases, dates, times, places. Yet a lot of strong emotion, obviously quite sincerely felt.

Saying that, I don't really want to see a massive list of BK "dirty laundry". You know, it won't surprise or shock me and I just don't want to spew out a lot attack on souls who are not present to defend themselves. The truth is that humanity, and I mean me too, we have issues and we do wrong things. So I already realise that even very senior BKs who run the organisation have had ego, anger, said and done things that will probably make me wince (because I am a touchy-feely New Age person).

Yet if it's possible without overdoing it, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the specific criticisms backed up with concrete examples. I hope that makes sense.


-

"Not Baba's child anymore"

Yeah, you're right. That's language straight from the Murli. Along with statements like:

"Every soul is God's child."

"The Father loves His children."

And much more.

"Mind games"

, you say? When you say that you of course mean doing something to hurt someone, by basically dicking around with their head in a negative way.

The teachings in Murli specifically teach on giving respect and good wishes to others. Do you want me to find and quote a number of those? I am only fringe BK right now with only a small selection of Murli books, but I am sure I can find a significant number of Avyakt Murlis dealing with this topic. I am prepared to find them and quote them directly.

Ex-I, are you truly saying that this material about respect and good will does not exist in BK teaching? Or are you criticising all BK Seniors for not practising it as a whole? Or is it specific BK Seniors you have in mind who did not/do not practice it?


- Another quote:

"My final response to you would be to ask you again whether the spiritual comfort zone you speak about really is Brahma Kumarism, and why you would want or need to align yourself with them again? In my opinion, it is not."

Fair enough, mate. I already mentioned at the start of this thread that I very strongly believe in the material that is taught as the "intro course" for BK that goes for 5 days these days. To me that's the absolute foundation of the path so that's why I feel that I am into what BK really is.

I do understand that you hold a very different view on that, that this stuff is not the foundation at all. You've called it window dressing to cover a manipulative self serving organisation which harms people while preaching good values to suck people in. I really don't mean to put words in your mouth so please correct me if I am off the mark.


-

"OK, if you are getting older and the party scene etc no longer appeals, I can understand the attraction of going around to sit quietly with the old folk at the BKWSU center, not to be hassled by people and to have unchallenging philosophical new agey chit-chat. But what I think will happen there is, essentially, you will be used."

Oh dear, you see me as an old fogey do you? Oh dear, oh dear... I am not ancient, slow and dim witted yet, ready to pass my afternoons out on the porch with a blanket over my lap, toothlessly mumbling about the 'good old days' with the other grandpas! I don't know whether to laugh or swear at you! LMAO!!!

Sometimes I get such a negative undercurrent in your responses. Or is that just me? Eh. What makes you say that I want "unchallenging chit-chat" and "not to be hassled by people"? Errr, if I wanted no challenge neither would I do the job I have nor would I venture in the den of the "anti-BK serpent", now would I? I hardly shy away from life if that's what you're implying.

By the way, I don't know if anyone will believe me, but I've actually learned a few things about myself by coming to this forum to have some errr... "robust" discussions challenging what I believe and what BK is all about. Too much artillery and machinegun fire can damage one's health though, but it hasn't been anywhere near as much as I thought when I first ventured into the den.


Cheers,
Sword

So really it's a value judgement.

No, its not a "value judgement", which is basically a sort of intellectual insult or put down.

We are demanding realism and intellectual integrity. I am sorry but we are WAY beyond sweet spiritual chit-chat and "positive" - for which read "wishful" - thinking on this forum. If you want to make a statement, please be factual and precise, and back it up ... otherwise it probably will be torn down as "more BKWSU whitewash". I mean, we are way below "university" standard here but, given the claims and ambitions, humanity has a right to straight answers from the BKWSU and its followers a little bit of respect.

Although I exaggerated the scenario, I was serious about the appeal of the BKWSU to people as they get older and mellow. If you and the BKWSU want a good business hint ... "New Age Old Folks Homes". There is going to be great demand and there is no supply at present (Destruction is not going to happen as the BKs say it ... again).

If there is stuff going on in Australia, you can bet it is basically because of the work done here and by the guys behind BKWSUwatch.com. I know there was "high level" discussions had.

Destruction is not going to happen as the BKs say it ... again.

How are they going to reimburse the time and money, the sincere and naive BKs invested, because of lure given to them of deity kingdom after the forthcoming Destruction?

If they have done it intentionally, and with planning, what should be the punishment of such a crime ... and who is responsible?

I am worried about my Brother, and also feel deep sorry for thousands of BKs given their lives. Oh ... GOD ...! This is sheer cheating ... Oh ... it is painful ... too.

Through this forum, I learned that they are beating their drums of Destruction since 1939 (Letter written to Gandhiji regarding establishment of deity kingdom and coming Destruction), I wonder why Govt. and others responsible people do not take any action against them for such misguidance in the society and using sincere and naive people for their intentions.

I AM MORE CLEAR THAT THIS IS NO GOD'S WORK

I will give you a concrete example, Bhupendra ... their god spirit predicted Destruction SPECIFICALLY, and on numerous occasions, to happen in 1976. It had all the followers running around like headless chickens.

Around the same time, their current leader Janki Kripalani, relative of the founder Lekhraj Kirpalani, was starting evangelism in the UK. Whilst they were encouraging all their followers to runaround like mad, make extra efforts, give up their lives - and, of course, money because Destruction was going to come ... the Brahma Kumaris bought a FREEHOLD PROPERTY in London.

Now, actually BUYING property is against the advice given in the spirit messages from their god and no such decision as that would be made without seeking advice from the very top. So, they followers handed over their money, the leaders bought the property ... and Destruction did not happen.

At that time, although the leader Janki Kripalani would remember, none of the followers were told about the failure of Destruction in 1950. Nor what happened during WWII. Nor the truth about them thinking Lekhraj Kirpalani was God until after the failed prediction in 1950. Basically no one amongst the followers, certainly in the West, and no one in the public knew until it came out on this forum. So how big a liar is Janki Kripalani and what "values" does this cult and its leader have? A journalist discovered that they also lied about scientists saying she was "the most stable mind in the world" for 30 years ... no scientists did. They still claim it to Indians.

It is still going on ... this is from the spirit message dated, 18/01/2010.

Earlier, people used to be afraid on hearing the name of the Brahma Kumaris. What are they saying, "Destruction Destruction" And waht do they say now? Now, they say, "Tell me when Destruction will take place! How will it happen? What should we do? It is a guarantee that it will happen. All of you have this guarantee, do you not? Whether from abroad of from Bharat, you have this guarantee, do you not? Your co-operation is definitely always there. It has to happen. You may applaud.

I will give you a concrete example, Bhupendra ... their god spirit predicted Destruction SPECIFICALLY, and on numerous occasions, to happen in 1976. It had all the followers running around like headless chickens.

Around the same time, their current leader Janki Kripalani, relative of the founder Lekhraj Kirpalani, was starting evangelism in the UK. Whilst they were encouraging all their followers to runaround like mad, make extra efforts, give up their lives - and, of course, money because Destruction was going to come ... the Brahma Kumaris bought a FREEHOLD PROPERTY in London.

Now, actually BUYING property is against the advice given in the spirit messages from their god and no such decision as that would be made without seeking advice from the very top. So, they followers handed over their money, the leaders bought the property ... and Destruction did not happen.

At that time, although the leader Janki Kripalani would remember, none of the followers were told about the failure of Destruction in 1950. Nor what happened during WWII. Nor the truth about them thinking Lekhraj Kirpalani was God until after the failed prediction in 1950. Basically no one amongst the followers, certainly in the West, and no one in the public knew until it came out on this forum. So how big a liar is Janki Kripalani and what "values" does this cult and its leader have? A journalist discovered that they also lied about scientists saying she was "the most stable mind in the world" for 30 years ... no scientists did. They still claim it to Indians.

WHY ... WHY ... WHY ... THEY ARE NOT BANNED ... ? AH ... I KNOW SINDIS WELL ...

Dear Bhupendra,

I understand your feeling and concern for your Brother, and being a BK I take this opportunity to make clear your opinions about the organisation as a whole.

Firstly, allow me to understand the reason of your Brother's grief and pain. It will enable me to guide you in proper manner. Critisizing organisation as a whole will not solve the purpose.

Secondly, I believe that you don't know much about the organisation as you said you are only some times visitor to your local centre. Have you ever been to Madhuban (Mount Abu Headquarters)?

Thirdly, I request you to do visit to brahmakumaris official website brahmakumaris.com or BKWSU.org. We make our opinions and views depending upon the information feeded in our intellect.

I insist you to do visit to the local centre and clarify any differences by open talks. Let them understand your Brother's position and I am sure they will not leave any stone unturned to sort out the problem. Believe ...

The issue of Destruction is not misguidance but, if you understand it as per The Knowledge, you will come to know that the talks of Destruction makes you strong, determined, and alert. It is not like that, that you have to leave and surrender every thing to the Yagya. Baba always teach to maintain balance. Of course, if you have Destruction point in your thoughts, you find yourself more humble, genuine and down to earth type person and more over SOUL CONSCIOUS.

Thank you

Dear Bhupendra,

I didnt want to come back on this forum as it only allows to criticize BKs by focussing on their flaws and overlooking the intense positivity behind it (see my other thread). But my heart felt I should share my view with you.

Just by reading some blogs out here, you are deriving judgment and you are missing to see the real beauty of the BK path that has helped many many souls like me to become a better and happier person in life. I would encourage you not to arrive at conclusions by reading opinions of a handful of Ex-BKs who dislike the organization because of their personal experiences (which I accept were not good) with a set of BKs or organization practices and hence tend to generalize it.

I have seen, personally, how the BK path has benefitted many families and people around the world and there is a lot of positive part that many are not able to see. And you will not be able to see it just reading what we write. It is something to be seen and experienced. Take the learning from this forum that do not allow yourself to be used or conned by the Destruction dose or financial traps but just go and experiment yourself on positive aspects such as soul consciousness and meditation and then you can better judge for yourself.

I have seen BK path closely for many years but the number of times Destruction is debated and talked about on this forum is much more than in the consciousness of the real practitioners - the BKs themselves. It is so simple to understand - if BK philosophy revolves around Destruction and they have failed in the Destruction predictions and many people left the organization, why hundreds and thousands of people still adopt and continue to walk on that path? Not everyone is blind, they see the power in the other aspects (and I do as well) and they get benefits out of that.

Let me share a very different perspective of Destruction and creation - BK path is a creation of elevated karma and sanskars (hence the fortune) through purification by Meditation. Yoga is also a destroyer of evil & negative sanksars and Sins. As recent as last week, one of my very close BK friend conducted a Raja Yoga session for beginners in a centre. One of the new souls , an old mother was sitting on the front seat. Throughout her life time she was troubled by past life memories, mental distress that was considered evil soul attack.

As a very rare event, during this session, she got into big trouble and suddenly became turbulent, shouting and almost violent. The BK Brother in-charge kept calm whereas there was turmoil in the room (the centre had never had a ghost visitor before!!!) and people and some of the BKs got terrified as well. It went on few minutes.

This BK Brother (a powerful Yogi) kept giving powerful Drishti (one of BK practices of giving pure vibrations/wishes through eyes) and meditating. After a few minutes, the evil soul left her body and she became very calm and normal. Later she shared that she had a vision of Shankar (Destroyer of Evils) through the Drishti, and the evil soul fled her. What would you call it? Did that woman get harmed by BK Yoga? She actually got relieved of a tremendous problem. To me, personally, this is what Destruction is ... Destruction of negativity.

Believe me, the BK followers are not fools and all are not blind to walk on a path that requires so much dedication, purity, principles and loyalty. I have seen blind faith in many spiritual practices including Bhakti but its usually very easy to walk on those paths with blind faith. Its not easy to walk on the BK path with blind faith - try living a BK lifestyle for 10 days and see the challenge. Despite such a tough life style, why is that BKs are so much happier and peaceful people in general and take this arduous lifetime journey?

But having a BK tag does not guarantee you are free of vices - there are many which could include centre-in-charges who have not been able to overcome their weaknesses and, hence, defame the organization by mixing their intentions with BK practices, and there are some who focus a lot on Destruction. It is that type of people that are being criticized over here time and again. But it can not be generalized for everyone - there are thousands who have sacrificed a lot and are making completely honest and sincere effort to reach divine perfection and union with God. If BKs only believed in Destruction, why do they put themselves onto such a difficult journey?

Go and do this survey with 100 people on the street (and you can do this in India where people believe in re-incarnation and Karma): What will you do if you came to know that there are only 3 years remaining in Destruction? I guarantee that a majority will prefer they will "indulge" or "enjoy" or "go around the world" or have a lot of booze or sex and so on ... I challenge if you find even 10% of those who will commit to remaining celibate for these 3 years, give these 3 years to God, Do a lot of meditation, wake up at 3.30 am and so on ... then why on earth BKs take on that lifestyle? Do you think its out of Destruction philosophy? No way, if you take out other positive aspects of BK practices and leave only Destruction, I bet most of the BKs will immediately leave the organization. But they do not because they see the positive side.

Your Brother will be fine. The goal of BK life is to attain perfection! There will be roadblocks and tiredness on the way, but with support and encouragement from you and family, he will be able to determine what he wants from his life and make a wise decision (continue the mission or soft exit without turmoils). If you project a very negative picture of BKs in any case to him just reading these posts, it will be disastrous for him (to make him feel he made a terrible mistake)! You should accept and appreciate what he had chosen for himself on that journey and provide the necessary support for a peaceful and beautiful life ahead.

Good wishes.

Thanks for your reply, Nischaybuddi

I been to local centre and talked to centre in charge, they kept mum thinking that it is only a part of drama, I suppose.

Thanks for your concern, clearernow

I request you to come over to our place, take the responsibility of my Brother, and give us guarantee to look after him in his old age. Will you? Or you continue preaching others like other BK do.

I cannot look after him following such nonsense disciplines. I would prefer giving support to orphan street children, an old age home or an organisation working to save young prostitute and to tell you that I, and many others, are doing works like this, without doing any propaganda; and without intentions of sucking money out of GOD's fear. These BK disciplines are hurting others mate.

There will be roadblocks and tiredness on the way, but with support and encouragement from you and family, he will be able to determine what he wants from his life and make a wise decision ... You should accept and appreciate what he had chosen for himself on that journey and provide the necessary support for a peaceful and beautiful life ahead.

What are the Godly family doing for their Godly family members ... if in crises they cannot even bother to take care and give moral support?

Namaste Bhupendra, namaste.

I was concerned when I read the utterances of the Brahma Kumarists that they might confuse you but I see your inner light is shining right through their darkness.

And what a wonderful answer to them ... YOU come and take care of YOUR Godly family, YOUR damage. Suggest that to the leadership and then you will see their true face. Time and time again utterly committed BKs have gone through these breakdowns and all but the most senior Sindi types are sent back to their physical families to be taken care off. There is a saying inside, "The Brahma Kumaris are a family when they want something from you, but an organization when you want something from them".

Their number one "yukti", or technique, when it comes to dealing with irate physical family members, is to draw them to the center. Their "safe ground". The idea is to subdue their physical family members with whatever the psychic influences or "vibrations" at the center are.

When they sit silently, not answering questions, what they are doing in their minds is meditating to their god spirit and then sending you the vibrations ... giving you "dristhi" vision to pacific you. Generally, they will offer you food which has been blessed with their god spirit's vibrations in the belief that it will influence your mind. They will try and plant seeds in your mind. Ultimately, the wish would be to convert you too.

The leaders have faced such problems from the very beginning and developed many techniques for dealing with it. They would not stop at throwing out and throwing back defective BKs if that was the easiest way. They, from the spirit messages, call such BKs as your Brothers "weak bricks" - quote-unquote - that have "exploded while they were being baked in the heat of their oven (bhatti)". I challenge the BKs to tell me that this is a misquote. It is not.

They claim that critics leave because they were too weak to follow the disciplines or blame the BKWSU for their bad karma. In my case, that is not true. I left because I lost all respect for the leaders because they spent all their time and our resources chasing VIPs, "serving the rich" they called it, and that was not my vision of spirituality. I found them to be dishonest and manipulative and unable to answer sincere questions.

One last thought. As you know, the Amils and Bhaibunds are merchants and administrators. Even their leader Lekhraj Kirpalani said that if Destruction did not happen in 1976, all his money should be given back to the Government of India. He died in 1969. Do you think they did that? No, the accountant called Ramesh Shah moved in and set up a trust days before Lekhraj Kirpalani died. Some say causing him to have the heart attack that killed him. They took over all the assets and turned it into a business.

What have they been pursuing ever since? Financial security for themselves and their organization ... land, property and adopting to the business of religion. They make people feel high, addict them, brainwash them, and then empty their wallets and lives. Your Brother is lucky to get out.

I hope the time does not come for you to give him an ultimatum, "your family or the BKWSU" but it might come. The BKWSU will not look after him. They have no plans to. Destruction will come and save them ... they hope.