Lekhraj Kirpalani 44 years old in 1939? Significances of history revision

Given that Lekhraj Kirpalani was most likely 54 in 1938, he was actually only 48 when he retired. Radhi Pokardas Rajwani was 16 when he started his satsangs. I wonder how early she actually joined the Om Mandli? A copy of the page where she writes Lekhraj Kirpalani retired in 1932 is here, the BKWSU publish in their books and training manuals that he retired in 1936.

Does truth matter at all? Nischaybuddhi, I just want to know. And I just want to know that I am being told the truth and not manipulated about some sentimental illusion, or distracted by some "yukti". If it is to do with "God", it is surely everyone's right to know.

Only you will feel satisfied about the Chariot was not Dada Lekhraj but some body else. Right? I think this is only your concern. And for the souls like Mama it is only waste of time.

I wonder why we don’t give our attention towards the other teachings given by Mama, and then perhaps we can understand her position no. 2.

Actually, no, the Chariot issue is the PBK's thing, not mine. I just love accuracy and truth ... but, for the record, I would like to know more about Narian Shewakram, the Golden Circle and other elements of the BKWSU history.

Did you know that Lekhraj Kirpalani was not actually the sleeping partner but Narian Shewakram was and their was money owing until the Adi Dev story? Another mix up in the BKWSU fantasy history.

Any which teachings do you mean? Mama was teaching the same nonsense about Lekhraj Kirpalani being Prajapati God Brahma, the Gita Sermoniser, until at least 1950; and the End of the World in 1950 stuff. She also taught in 1943, that "August 1938" was the establishment date of the Yagya, "a Yagya that will last 12 years". Like Lekhraj Kirpalani, her story has been revised and whitewashed. Turned into an unrealistic "hagiography" (a typically sentimental religious myth), and used to exploit the sincerely religious.

I find it is strange that you think she would be satisfied with the current state of affairs and would be part of the deception.

I think she would be disgusted, and have nothing to do with them ... that she would insist the truth was told.

How could she be dishonest if she was the number 2 pure soul in the world who "never made the same mistake twice"? I mean, really, answer a straight question for once.

How is it possible to be "pure" and spiritual and dishonest at the same time?

How is it possible to be "pure" and spiritual and dishonest at the same time?

It is important for an individual do be honest regarding the disciplines of Yagya and Baba. Mama was 100% honest, as far as Shrimat of Baba is concerned, and if you follow her teachings honestly you will notice the peace and power accumulating in the soul and would easily understand her number 2 position.

As far as dishonesty, what you are calling is nothing, but may be a 'Yukti' to avoid unnecessary arguments, or so. But again, I am not sure, so I can not elaborate.

It seems you regard honesty with the world outside the Yagya as not important, which is normal for a committed BK.

Like most BKs that come this way, nischaybuddhi ... you are avoiding answering the questions and addressing the logic.

You are also refusing to make any efforts to go and find out specific, factual details. You talk about divinity and following Shrimat and yet, after 40 years, you do not even have an ordinary sense of decency and respect for others.

The truth is, you really do not have any clue who or what Om Radhe was like. Om Radhe, like Lekhraj Kirpalani, is made up mostly of a projection of earnest religious sentiments and your inner desires but based on the projections of people like the fantasist Janki Kripalani, and the poetic Jagdish Chander. People's who business and livelihood were and are dependent on sustaining a religious myth.

Is it wrong for us to desire simple truths?

It is important for an individual do be honest regarding the disciplines of Yagya and Baba.

So, following on from what Mr Green wrote - from his experience as a surrendered soul and a centre-niwassi - is what you are saying, "It is BK follower for an individual do be honest regarding the disciplines of Yagya and Baba ... but it is not important for a BK follower to be honest to the rest of the world?"

As Mama died before you entered into the BKWSU, are we talking the real Mama or the mythologised Mama who has been re-invented, re-packaged and re-sold by the Brahma Kumari leadership hooking into humanity's ancient pre-programmed "mother" and goddess psychology.

There are many facts I'd love to know about Radhi Pokardas Rajwani. Some, like being able to read her diaries, you might agree with and respect. I'd like to read of the period of revelation around 1950 when they introduced or invented Shiva, and read of the evolution of her thought.

Why does not the BKWSU make them public in their original, unedited form?

You are also refusing to make any efforts to go and find out specific, factual details.

Yes ... clearly ... I’ll refuse to go and find out any factual details ... because ... I strongly believe that the event which is once passed and then if discussed about, is always mixed with public opinion, manipulations, the conscious level of the person, I’m speaking to ... and the so called truth will be nothing but the mixed form of all those opinions.

You talk about divinity and following Shrimat and yet, after 40 years, you do not even have an ordinary sense of decency and respect for others.

As a soul I do respect all, as they are originally, peaceful, loveful, blissful etc and they are also sweet children of Supreme Soul.

The truth is, you really do not have any clue who or what Om Radhe was like.

Yes ... You are right. I've never seen her or meet her.

Om Radhe, like Lekhraj Kirpalani, is made up mostly of a projection of earnest religious sentiments and your inner desires but based on the projections of people like the fantasist Janki Kripalani, and the poetic Jagdish Chander.

This is the opinion made by your after doing your research based on talks, discussions, reading material of BKWSU/Om Mandli, history of Yagya. I cannot comment on it as I’ve not done any of these.

Is it wrong for us to desire simple truths?

No. absolutely it is nothing wrong in it till you’ve reached the real truth. And once you arrived at the real truth, it would be only foolishness to go back seeking materialistic truths which never, never existed. I hope that being Baba’s sweet children, you would not deny the following truths taught by Baba, "I am not a body, I am a soul". If you practice it, honestly and earnestly, you will hardly find time to go seeking unnecessary truths which are useless for yourself and for others too. GOD is our sweet Father: No matter, whether you are a BK/Non BK/Christian/Hindu/Muslim or who ever, for all GOD is sweet Father and merciful. This truth is as simple and sweet, why not stick to it?

There are so many others ... you know them very well ... why not to practise them?

As Mama died before you entered into the BKWSU, are we talking the real Mama or the mythologised Mama who has been re-invented, re-packaged and re-sold by the Brahma Kumari leadership hooking into humanity's ancient pre-programmed "mother" and goddess psychology.

Yes ... This is a very bitter reality in the Yagya, and I can not deny it. Here in our local city also, I’ve seen many disputes, fights with the Senior BK Brother when he was alive, the time to time differences regarding money, centres, students were quite open. He passed away last year, and this year, the same Sisters are projecting him as one of the member of Trimurti (GOD Shiv + Brahma Baba + BK Brother ) for enhancing their SEVA. But, again, it all depends upon the conscious level of the individual, his intentions, his beliefs.

There are many facts I'd love to know about Radhi Pokardas Rajwani. Some, like being able to read her diaries, you might agree with and respect. I'd like to read of the period of revelation around 1950 when they introduced or invented Shiva, and read of the evolution of her thought.

I don’t understand why you are going in to much of the details and what are your intentions? To tell you my real inner truth, I’m finding it just impossible to trust anyone. I suspect, you too are doing so much of research in order to strengthen yourself and make SOMETHING out of it. Are you an organisation against Brahmakumaris, or what? Sorry to be a bit frank and open ... but these days, it is a natural trend to open a shop in front of a popular shop and do propaganda of our shop criticising others, in order to sell our goods.

Why does not the BKWSU make them public in their original, unedited form?

They will never do it ... for them every past incidence is DRAMA and Drama is always Kalyankari (what ever happens, happens for better).

Put it in these terms,

a) if an investor came to you for professional advice about a company, and you discovered that the company had falsified its records, details of its directors, its trading history and so on ... what would your advice be to that investor?
b) if new directors of a company came to you for professional advice, and you discovered that the company had falsified its records, details of its directors, its trading history and so on ... what would your advice be to that investor?

I know what your advice would be; a) don't invest in anyway on earth; and, b) tell the truth about the past to clear it up, start afresh and 'be seen' to do your best to ensure it never happens again?

Yes? If you are really honest and mature, you can answer many of your own questions.

I suspect, you too are doing so much of research in order to strengthen yourself and make SOMETHING out of it. Are you an organisation against Brahmakumaris, or what? Sorry to be a bit frank and open ... but these days, it is a natural trend to open a shop in front of a popular shop and do propaganda of our shop criticising others, in order to sell our goods.

I am sorry but I am not Indian. I know what you mean because I have seen it with my own eyes. I do not have such low morals as to deceive those seeking answers. There is nothing here "for sale".

What you ask is a fair question. I would say we are a meeting place of people touched in many ways by the Brahma Kumaris movement, who seek to resolve the truth of it ... the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Do these details matter? Yes, of course they do. They are worth ten thousand times that ... which is the BK term for it ... "eyewash" employed by the BKWSU leadership. What we are doing is reinvigorating BKs critical and analytical faculties ... and support the genuine victims.

Victims the BKWSU cares nothing about.
http://bk-pbk.info/
They details are the keys with which start to unravel all the deception and deceit ... and those who live and rule by deception and deceit. They are the some of the keys to spiritual freedom. In truth, we are not that far away from "the path". Speaking for myself, I think there are some metaphorical elements that the PBKs employ which do apply to the BKWSU, e.g. that The Knowledge applies inside the BK world not outside. So, "Destruction" will apply not to the outside world but to corrupt elements within the BKWSU ... "spiritual sleep" also applies to those within the BK world, those who think they are awake as BKs ... that all the talk of "devils" and so on are within the BK movement.

Why does not the BKWSU make the (Murlis and other materials) public in their original, unedited form?

They will never do it ... for them every past incidence is DRAMA and Drama is always Kalyankari (what ever happens, happens for better).

Yes, thieves have exactly the same mentality ... "what is passed is past ... everything we can take for free is beneficial for us".

At least we agree on one thing. The deception around the leadership is so hardened around the leaders that they will die before they give it all up.

So what are we going to do to fix things and make the BKWS better? Sit on your bottom, hypnotizing yourself is not going to do it.

I only can say ex-I, have you ever experienced Baba's parental touch? His love ... His bliss ... ever???

If yes, then why you don't believe him? Every actor is playing its unique part, all we have to learn is becoming detached. Every soul will reap the fruits of his own karma, so why should we bother? In your opinion, the leadership is corrupt, they may be corrupt, and they will reap their crop.

I am always really surprised by any so-called "spiritual" person attempting to pull the conversation down to a 'subjective' level, e.g. "my opinion" ... "my experience" ... even "experience" itself. All those are worth nothing, they are just distractions. Pleasant distractions, perhaps, but just "yukti" and distraction from real spirituality.

Going back to the business analogy above, it is like say, "oh, go on, just have another drink ... the boss is a good man, see how good it feels to be intoxicated ... if you do business with us, we can become intoxicated often ... just give us your money and work for us for free".

Would you invest?

The obvious answer is no.

Your position also lacks a sense of social responsibility ... are you going to recruit individuals so that they suffer the abuse, the deception and the spiritual damage it causes knowing that it all goes on?

There is where my moral and ethics are different from yours ... and you are still mistaking the god of the Brahma Kumaris for the god of humanity.

I accept your right to follow your own god - whoever he may be - but I cannot accept you 'passing' him off - and his self-appointed chosen ones - as the god of humanity and topmost human beings.

I am sorry but no. Prove to us they are good first, never mind god. If you refuse to give us the facts, at least commit to removing the lies.

Will you do that, or will you continue promoting them?

Will you do that, or will you continue promoting them?

I will do what you suggest me to do, if you do the following for me

Give me my own convincing introduction “Who am I?”.
Give me complete and thorough knowledge of world, its origin, rise and downfall of soul.
Give me The Knowledge so that I can build my destiny.
Give me The Knowledge of Law of Karma.
Give me 40 good years with full contentment and satisfaction.
Show me any other place in the whole world where so many people living like a family with no physical guru or a person with ruling authority, even though the work goes smoothly.

You are coming out with your own conclusion seeing a few cases failed.

are you going to recruit individuals so that they suffer the abuse, the deception and the spiritual damage it causes knowing that it all goes on?

No, I’m no body to recruit. GOD is carrying his work by selecting his mediums.

It is more than just a "few" by now. It is based on evidence from all five continents. And I am know it is only the tip of an iceberg. Given that the "failures" included many suicides, mental breakdowns, broken families, the beatings of PBKs, financial and legal abuse, and child sex abuse ... it has reached a point where any reasonable person would have similar concerns. You read of the young girl who set herself on fire, or the Brother who hanged himself in Madhuban etc?

In a way, you underline with your own example what we realised here a long time ago. The BKWSU method works because it plugs the all basic cores of human self-doubt; who am I, why am I here, what is god, what is life all about, what should I do with my life?

It "works" even though the mental food it provides, the mental plugs, are demonstration not to true, are unprovable, or are "true because I/Dadi/Baba says they are true". Self-referential truths or circular reasoning. Not necessarily "truths" at all.

The human mind has a vast capacity to block and filter out any facts that contradict its beliefs ... like the failed predictions of Destruction. Hindu Bhakti provides the BKs was a huge safety net of "get out clauses". These are not an "opinion" or a "personal conclusion" but facts ... and you know it.

Of course, the BKWSU has gurus ... look at what they have turned the Seniors into, the "Trimurti Dadis". They have senior gurus and junior gurus (... and business gurus). They are the "Anti-guru Gurus", and not the first to market themselves as such. Their Gurudom is based on an attack on the congregations of the male Hindu gurus. They seek to take over the role of local gurus ... and they accept and live off others money just like the old gurus did. It is though probably fairer to say they use a Christian or Islamic model to their religion; local churches/mosques, house church, priests and evangelists.

One last request then ... please look at this topic, BK request copies of Murlis and read some of the members' profile to see how many people come here because it is their only source of receiving the Murlis. Channeled messages they believe they have to read every day.

Will you help us complete our collection so that we have all of the 5 Year selection in English and Hindi to give them?

If you do not care about the truth ... fair enough. But will help these other genuine BKs?

Give me my own convincing introduction “Who am I?”.
Give me complete and thorough knowledge of world, its origin, rise and downfall of soul.
Give me The Knowledge so that I can build my destiny.
Give me The Knowledge of Law of Karma.
Give me 40 good years with full contentment and satisfaction.
Show me any other place in the whole world where so many people living like a family with no physical guru or a person with ruling authority, even though the work goes smoothly

I will do what you suggest me to do, if you do the following for me Nischaybuddi

1. If you make me forget the teachings given by BKs about myself. The taught me I am point of light, Knowledgeful, peaceful, blissfull, loveful, happy, powerful, and pure. I found total reverse while in BKs.
2. If you make me forget BKs knowledge about word drama, as it is nothing but a game of putting the juniours in confusion and dilemma.They will never give straight answers.
3. Only the people who are having hypocritic qualities are only making their destiny
4. The Law of Karma according to BKs is only the fear they are trying to imbibe in the individuals mind, the leaders are free from these laws.
5. This is not a family at all. The members are so selfish and self centred, and using the word FAMILY, they are sucking time and money from their followers.

Nishchaybuddi, perhaps I know you. Do you belong to Maharashtra? If you are the one, I’m guessing of, then let me remind you, you, yourselves had advised me not to surrender in Madhuban when I was in the first year of Gyan?

I’m sorry Nischaybuddi, I have lost faith from this Gyan. I tell you, not because of this website but because of the total inconsistency about The Knowledge, family, etc. We are risking our lives being in the organisation. We enter in to organisation on humanitarian grounds, and after few years we ourselves need some support; and at that time the pain is immense and intolerable. Now I clearly understand, why people leave and even after leaving they are full of guilty consciousness of betraying God. I can risk my life for a purposeful cause, but for killing myself why and how can I take the risk?

My only question to you, Nischaybuddi, is why people are not told in the beginning itself about the originality, disciplines, etc to be followed being in BK?

Why do they give much emphasis on Destruction, and always put you under control of non-acceptance of anything regarding carrer, marriage, family etc. I tell you, Nischaybuddi, if you leave about 10% of the total members, the remaining are living painful lives, and justifying themselves, as this is a part of DRAMA and whatever you are experiencing is because of your Karma ... There is no escape for them ...

Why they wait till the individual has reached to the last stage of mental illness, and think of suicide and even then, they do not bother at all? How you can accept the teaching that DRAMA IS KALYANKARI? Any thinker will call it as Pattharbuddi (stone heartedness).

I am sorry Nischaybuddhi but it is neither angelic nor deity-like to hold back truth and do deals over god ... that is so "merchant caste". or Copper Age by BK theory.

I have lost faith from this Gyan. I tell you, not because of this website but because of the total inconsistency about The Knowledge, family, etc ... We enter in to organisation on humanitarian grounds, and after few years ... the pain is immense and intolerable.

I think you put your finger on a number of very important issue parmeshwar.

Most BKs are good people and most BKs do start with the highest of intention. I still believe that. Very few are manipulative, deceptive control freaks (... but they do exist).

We do enter into the organisation on humanitarian grounds and are lead to believe that it is the highest service ... so we believe and then we give it a try. Then what you say starts to happen and gradually the veil is removed from our eyes at how we are being used and for what.

This is why I keep banging on with HARD FACT and the NEED FOR HARD FACTS. It is not because of the hard facts ... it is to demonstrate how the BKs and BKWSU CANNOT be honest ... CANNOT answer a straight question ... have become so skilled at half-truths and slippery sidesteps. And I even tell everyone this to read.

"You cannot build an Age of Truth (Sat Yuga) on lies" ... and the BKWSU lies and lies and lies, and even justifies lying as compassion, wisdom, yukkti or whatever. Those are the hard facts. If Lekhraj Kirpalani was not 60 in 1936 ... and if Shiva did not enter until after 1950 ... why do the Murlis say otherwise and why cannot the BKWSU leadership say so?

All these questions may be true, may be false I will not go and waste time finding the materialstic truth ... OK ... I believe you, you have come out with all these facts ... BUT... Do you think these questions are of any worth for establishment of peace, purity, happiness, bliss on this hell like earth?

Hmmmm ... I ask to myself, how "peace, purity, happiness, bliss on this hell like earth" could be established on a pile of lies and deception? The end justifies the means?

Please tell me!

Article on Yagya history here: A well balanced presentation.

http://hubpages.com/hub/kranti#_ftn17

Hmmn ... you PBK guys could do something better than that but nice you see how easily you wind up the BKs. That tell us something IS wrong.

We know that Shewak Ram was part of the Bhaibund Om Mandli Committee in 1937/38 ... that is to say, the Anti-Party ... and owed Lekhraj Kirpalani money. Not even "God via Virendra Dev Dixit" has any answers for that yet.

I am sorry, it is moving forward but it is also yet another creation myth.