The whole teaching on Destruction

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The whole teaching on Destruction

Post20 Feb 2010

Destruction, destruction. Mentioned often because this aspect of BK teaching can go so horribly wrong. People have panicked that the world is going to end and sold their houses. BK Murlis have said that the world will end in certain years and hello! It did not!!

The banner for this forum clearly states that BK believes that 6 billion souls will be killed and this desirable. Posts have been made saying that to be a BK means to look down on and sneer at other religions as inferior copies of BK and only "we elite are going to heaven, you miserable scum, you". (I am deperately trying to refrain from a Monty Python quote here ... but this is a serious subject). So all together, BK teaching comes across as this dark and very negative thing when expressed like this.

Destruction is in most Sakar Murlis, the older style morning classes spoken by the founder when he was alive and in his body. It's mentioned quite often. Many strong words are said in connection with Destruction teaching, like in essence, give up everything and forget all bodily relations. This is getting taken in a very negative and harmful manner and souls are ending up being really hurt through that.

Seeing this teaching go wrong and end up harming people's live, I wince inside. I really do, it hurts me in my heart, because I don't wish anyone to sell their house and have nowhere to live or get screwed up inside.

It seems to me that the complete BK teaching on the end of the world is not really understood. I think Destruction has a lot of explanation in the morning classes which go far, far beyond just 6 billion souls are gonna die. I am including other material that is connected with specific points on Destruction, as one needs the entire contect on BK teaching to achieve a complete and balanced view. See what you think reading this post. You may of course disagree and that's fine with me.

I am going to try doing expressing the entire material in BK teaching on Destruction in bullet points. Each one is the synopsis of actual statements in Murli.

    - The world will go through war, famine, catastrophe. Souls will die like mosquitoes one day.
    - The world never ends. There is no annihilation. It will continue.
    - The story of humanity, of our history, of the entire world, goes through five great phases: the Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Copper Age, the Iron Age, and the Diamond Age. It is a viewpoint not concerned with how advanced we are with science, it is based on how spiritually pure we are. The sign of our level of spiritual awareness is in how we relate to others and live our practical lives.
    - The coming times of trouble will lead to a better world.
    - In this better world, spirituality forms the complete basis for life in every aspect, automatically and naturally in every moment for soul present at the time.
    - This world is in fact Heaven as mentioned in religions.
    - The world population will be small at the time.
    - Then the whole story of the world repeats with souls passing slowly into more shallow, physical consciousness.
    - Eventually, the soul loses so much spiritual awareness by having lived in a physical body so long, that it associates its identity with the physical body.
    - The magic of the experience of being deeply peaceful, a being of spiritual energy, therefore vanishes.
    - And we experience fear as the body ends and we think we are the body. It's natural to be scared if your consciousness is that you are this perishable form.
    - Then inner emptiness starts, souls start grabbing hold of temporary pleasures. Then anger starts as things go wrong and we don't get our own way. How can things go karmically right if you are being selfish, for example, or hurting someone?
    - As Buddha explained, these vices are the root causes of sorrow.
    - With time, these shallow identities and habits take more hold, and we become more nasty, clinging, etc. These are traits that strengthen. And the world comes to be very materialistic.
    - And it comes to the final forms of extreme suffering like 6 million Jews being gassed in concentration camps, and the horrors we have seen in Africa in recent times.
    - But BK teaches a mesage of hope. It will get better.
    - All the great religions are in themselves beautiful. They founded by very pure souls, each one giving a message of aspects of universal truth and they were inspired and sent by the Father to the world for that reason.
    - They too slowly fall yet new ones emerge.
    - Each great religion has its part in the world. The religions are basis of our world history.
    - BK teaches the history of the world from a viewpoint of the state of our inner spirituality rather than from a viewpoint of the outer history that we read in history books. This is deemed to be more important and the real foundation of our stories.
    - We are all eternal beings made of spiritual energy, we neither end nor does the world.
    - At the end, God gives the fullest teachings of all through which the complete spiritual state can be achieved. This is the basis of the Golden Age forming in a practical form.
    - We all take life after life. We do not end when the body ends. So we have many stories and our personality expresses itself in different forms. At first we are in our most spiritual calm and loving form, then slowly we associate ourselves with the body and adopt negative traits that end up giving us an experience of sorrow.
    - Some souls take fewer births, some take more.
    - Each soul is a child of that supreme consciousness God.
    - Each and every soul, even a human soul which takes one birth, or an animal soul, has beauty and speciality. It is the child of a very amazing soul the world has been reaching to with worship and religion.
    - Souls which come into the world in the later ages are still beautiful and worthy, but their purest of life is in the more materialistic world.
    - But far from missing out on anything, this is just part of who they are.
    - When a soul first comes, it has no wrong karma accumulated.
    - It is the Law of Karma that controls everything that happens in our lives. What we put out comes back and so forms our experience as spiritual beings in this very physical world with bodies, chemicals, gravity, physical energies.
    - So the soul coming into the world in the later Ages, when there is war and violence and sorrow, is not touched by any of that. They themselves have not done wrong karma yet so they don't have bad things happen to them in their lives. Their lives are good and in their first birth, they have their own complete experience of happiness.
    - This applies even to a soul with one birth.
    - Souls with fewer births are not interested in deep spirituality. Deep down inside, they are fine with their own level experience.
    - BKs are studying this new spiritual knowledge inspired by God himself and are meant to teach it to every corner of the world.
    - The Murli again and again gives directions on being nice to others, respectful, calm and peaceful while doing that.
    - Sometimes, the Murli mixes it up and seems to say something opposite. I believe is to stretch the BK intellect so we get deeper with our understanding of spirituality and find what God really means.
So the upshot of Destruction is that it's coming! Yet, Murli clearly says you have to be soul conscious, so this is not an end for the world. It is the start of a New Age of humanity based on: soul consciousness!

So BKs are meant to be deeply respectful to others, living in harmony, lovefully, unstained by fears and worries and the other consciousness that are the root cause of violence, war, greed and the other traits that have made this beautiful world into this dark hell hole. A hell hole where people in Africa are getting raped, murdered and their arms hacked off with machetes.

Murli says forget all human beings to remember God and speaks strongly against this dirty old world. I see that BKs, including myself twenty years ago, take that wrongly and get cold and emotionally damaged. God could only mean for us open our eyes to what happens in Rwanda, in Kosovo and other places. It is right to feel digust on extreme sorrow like that. That is what BKs must kick away! And it worth kicking away. I reject the ways of the world that cause wars, etc. But it does not mean I have to cold and emotionally damaged!!!!! Murli also says live like "milk and honey". Or do we forget that while we obsess with the "End of the World"?

It means we are compassinate and have a heart. God also has a heart and feels, it's not just that he is the wise teacher who never becomes distressed when souls get raped, etc. He does know the Law of Karma, but love is a natural quality of every soul including the Supreme Soul, so God feels mercy too and wants to help.

All this is the background of the teaching of Destruction. You must retain this complete picture or our human addiction to negative thinking, to guilt, to putting other religions down, will latch onto the isolated points on Destruction! And they will be used to either make your own life miserable, or hurt others. I assert that neither is enlightened, constructive or part of real spiritual teaching.

No BK should sit obsessed with this teaching and feel stressed and do stupid things with their life because of it. You know, you could actually die in traffic on the way to work tomorrow. Couldn't you? But I bet you don't think about it!

The right way to take all of this kind of understanding is with balance and calmness. In Murli, its says to leave alone points that are distressing you. This is practical advice for life! Don't stew on things that make you feel like crap! Stay calm and rational. It doesn't mean you should never question BK life, I just mean don't let your negative tendencies twist any part of the Murli into something destructive.

Now having said that, if you want to give your house to the BK organisation, make sure you do it for solid, well thought out, sustainable reasons and as an enlightened person. I don't think surrendering everything is wrong if you are clear and rational and are doing for honest altruism. But never do it for the end fo the world stuff, because no one knows when it will happen. NEVER, EVER give your house away from a feeling of social expectation or some BK twat trying to "heavy you" into doing it. Keep your sense of individuality and conscience on what is right and wrong even if BK leader says something to you! That's my advice anyway.

I believe exact dates were given in BK teaching for Destruction as a kick up the pants to the BK family. I see in practical with my adult eyes that many BKs are not really practising the spirituality as outlined in the Murli. Maybe this kick up the pants did some good to wake up those who are meant to be practitioners. Are you still greedy, egotistical, etc? Maybe thinking about the your life ending one day will spur you to re-examine your life and become more spiritual?

Sadly though, those specific dates also led some people to sell their houses and panic and did harm rather than good.

Ultimately, if I want to be a BK, I have to find my own inner voice of wisdom and not blindly follow what some little old lady in a white sari is saying to me. I know you might think I am going to get used as I mix with BKs and that I am a blind idealist. Maybe I am a blind idealist? But I will not let someone control me or tell something is right when it is clearly wrong. If I see someone suicidal or depressed in the BK family I am going to go and meet them and put my arm around them and try to help if I can. And if any Dadi or Didi doesn't like it, they can kiss my ass.


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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post20 Feb 2010

Within Brahma Kumarism, instilling "Destruction" is about instilling a sense of futility in life deeply into the sub-consciousness which can then be used as a foundation for all sorts of other false constructions. It is a destroyer of hope and practical human development for the future. How many young girls have been sucked up by the Brahma Kumaris to be made into servants who could have at least become nuns or nurse doing some good for society?

    Just out of interest, have you read the "Letter from a Child growing up in the BKWSU" about just this issue?
Judaism, Islam, Christianity etc did go through their 'End of the World' phases, 100s to 1,000s of years go. They did some pretty crazy things too. They two seem to go hand in hand. Over here, we suspect the leadership are just desperate for Destruction as it is the only thing that will allow them to stop their nonsense and climb down without losing face.

    The big difference between Brahma Kumarisim and other religions, is that the BKWSU is doing it here and now ... and using it to rip people off. We can do something to stop it.
Perhaps you could look at how it is one phase on the scale of social evolution of religions that most religious leaders use, pass through, fail and discard. We hear often that some BKs are attempt to discard Destruction from their teaching and remodel Brahma Kumarism. Obviously, the pathetic PR whitewash of "it is not Destruction, it is Transformation" does not go down well here.

One of the god of the BKs other screw ups was claiming that the population of the world was only 5,000,000,000. It is said to be around 6,804,000,000 now. One of the rationalisation given is that the additional 1,800,000,000 don't count as full human beings and are just like "mosquitos" who come and go in one life. Given most of them apparently "come and go" in the developing nations, I find it difficult to believe they have much of a "Golden Age" of pure happiness. They don't.

My feeling is that the leadership are happy for Westerns to whitewash the old Knowledge as much as they want and as much as it keeps bringing in the business and money ... but the old rotten core remains. You have gone on to reincarnate the 5,000 years identical Cycle as well ... something else that is being hidden away from public Westernised teachings.

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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post21 Feb 2010

I remember, as a twenty year old, asking Atam Prakash how long until Destruction. He said two years. That was in 1990. I wish he would have just said he did not know if he did not know. I guess that was to inspire more fear based effort.

I am tired of hearing about Destruction. I remember a time in the Murlis when it was pages of fear and loathing mixed in with some very profound and deep stuff. Often I would walk away feeling unmotivated and sick. The new revised version is a dumbed down version with all the fire and brimstone taken out. I think it scared too many away. One can only listen to that for so long.

So many good people with good intentions became disillusioned with the bar always being put higher. Myself included. I call on the leadership to take responsibility for their students, to acknowledge their mistakes, and take some real steps to healing the hurt created by the misleading human element that has lead to abuse and sometimes death.

Though maybe not the cause of people's personal problems at least not adding to there problems. Or are the Brahma Kumaris just another layer of the onion?

When peeled back one cant help but cry.


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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post22 Feb 2010

Destruction, Apocalypse, Armageddon, Transformation - it’s Doomsday again. (Source: The Cult Files: True Stories from Extreme Edges of Religious Belief by Chris Mikul)

The Branch Davidians

    Vernon Howell (later David Koresh) had come to believe he was the seventh angel put on Earth to usher in God’s kingdom. Central to his thinking were passages in the Book of Revelations concerning a scroll with seven seals, the opening of which would initiate the Apocalypse.
Mankind United

    Its purpose: ‘To end illiteracy, poverty and war, and to bring the assurance of lasting peace and guaranteed security to the people of every nation.’ The consequences of not adopting their plan – that the Hidden Rulers were planning another world war, in which 400 million of the world’s best educated and most religious people would be slaughtered. One chapter entitled ’40,000 Principalities – One Thousand Million Slaves’, described what would happen after the war. Each of the Hidden Ruler Families, of which there were 40,000, would live in a palace atop a 25-storey building. Each building would house 25,000 slaves, the remnants of humanity. The most attractive women among them would by chosen by the Hidden Rulers for their harem. Most of the remainder would be reduced to automaton status.
Peoples Temple

    Jim Jones’s attraction to communism resulted in a philosophy he called ‘religious communalism’. He expected his followers to devote their lives and incomes to People’s Temple… There was also the matter of an impending nuclear holocaust, which he predicted would happen on 15 July 1967.
The Manson Family

    (Charles) Manson said that his philosophy was all about love, but when it came to the apocalyptic scenario he had pieced together by the beginning of 1969, who he hated loomed larger.. He told his followers that a race war was imminent, which he called ‘Helter Skelter’... which the blacks would win, killing all the whities except Manson and his followers. The blacks would be incapable of running the world. Manson and his followers, their number now grown to 144,000 (a figure derived from the Book of Revelations), would emerge from underground to take over, and Manson would rule the world.

    Most of Manson’s followers believed it all. Some even searched for the hole.
Heaven’s Gate

    The leaders believed themselves to be extraterrestrial beings who had come from ‘The Evolutionary Level Above Heaven’, and offered their followers the promise that they, too, could attain this level. Their rules included cutting of all relations with family members and abstaining from sex. In May 1993 their writings took on a markedly apocalyptic tone. Civilisation was about to be recycled (‘spaded over’). The trigger for the mass suicide that occurred in 1997 had been the appearance of the exceptionally bright Comet Haler-Bopp. The leader, Appelwhite, had taken this to be a signal that he and his followers had long been waiting for – the go-ahead to shed the inferior ‘vehicles’ of their bodies and travel to the next level, in outer space.
Nation of Yahweh

    Hulon Mitchell Jnr brought an apocalyptic urgency to the theme that the Jews and Jesus had been black. The final violent battle between blacks and whites was coming, and after that, the Promised Land.
The Order of the Solar Temple

    Lofty ideals were espoused combining Christianity with new-age beliefs. Humanity was going through a period of transition. The purpose of his group was to aid transformation by reaffirming the primacy of the spiritual over the temporal, and bringing all churches together. There was also an apocalyptic tone – Earth was in great danger of pollution and other environmental disasters, and was about to suffer some sort of terrible cataclysm. The doctrines regarding death and the end of the world were somewhat contradictory and changed over time. In early times the Temple members constituted an elect who would survive the apocalypse, which would involve a ‘purifying’ fire and usher in the Age of Aquarius… After their move to Canada it was claimed that Quebec would be the only place that would survive the apocalypse. Over the years preparations for the end of the world gave way to the idea that the Temple’s members might have to leave this world – by dying – before the end came. Death was illusory and their spirits would travel to a planet that orbited Sirius, also known as the Dog Star.
Aum Shinrikyo (now Aleph)

    Their leader, Asahara, had long predicted the end of the world. The details and dates kept changing, but the scenario included a war between Japan and the United States. Japan was sinking beneath the sea, and a global nuclear war that would destroy civilisation. Like most doomsday prophets, Asahara taught that only those who followed him would survive. His particular twist was to claim that the spiritual purity of Aum members would make them impervious to radiation, poisons, and other physical threats. Aum would be an active participant. Aum’s scientists and technicians virtually fell over each other trying to help achieve it.
The Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God

    The Movement’s central belief was that the world would end on 31 December 2000 after darkness had covered the earth for 3 days. It was the task of members to prepare for this event through prayer, penance and self-mortification. The leaders compared their movement to an ark. They would be the only people on Earth saved when the time came.

    The prophecy’s failure caused great consternation within the group. The leaders said the Virgin Mary had told them the end of the world had been postponed, and when that failed to satisfy anyone, they announced a new date – 17 May.

    On the morning of 17 May 2000, 330 followers, including 78 children, filed into a wooden church. As they prayed inside, the windows were boarded up, the front door was locked, and the church was set on fire. Everyone inside was incinerated. Along with other related murders the final death toll was put at 780.
In Combatting Cult Mind Control, Steve Hassan notes that elitist mentality is one of the certain themes of a cult. That members are encouraged to believe they are an elite corps of mankind, to have the feeling of being special.

‘As a community, they feel they have been chosen ... to lead mankind out of darkness into a New Age of enlightenment. Cult members have a great sense not only of mission but of their special place in history – they will be recognised for their greatness for generations to come. In the Moonies we were told that monuments and historical markers would someday be erected to commemorate us and our sacrifices.’ (That sounds very familiar – ah yes, deities and their memorials…).

He further notes that many groups have timetables for the apocalypse, which tends to be 2-5 years away. Far enough not to be discredited any time soon, near enough to carry emotional punch.

So, to use a BK saying – ‘nothing new’.

Judging by these few examples of which there are surely many more, the world has apparently been scheduled to end /destruct/transform on numerous occasions. Stretches the bounds of credibility when we read other versions of it doesn’t it? Maybe the world is in for a big change but to consider that it is ‘our group’ that is saving mankind or going to be ruling it ... the consequences of this way of thinking can, and has, ruined many lives. That is the real danger of ‘Destruction’.
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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post22 Feb 2010

So this topic is one which has been present in both respectable religions and dodgey cults.

I have met in my life some really lovely christians (Muslims too!). They are beautiful and genuine people, believe me. I can see with my adult eyes that they take some kind of sustenance from their religion, from reading the Bible, prayer, going to church and doing good charitable works.

Yet their religion contains teachings on the end of the world. This is core teaching in their holy book the bible. How come?! Are you all saying that this is just another wrong mind control? So in other words, you see no good at all in religion.

Much is made on this website again and again of how evil and wrong BKRJ is citing the teachings on Detruction. Here I am drawing your attention to the parellel with these real life people I have met. They are genuine, they are good hearted, they do good in life, they are balanced in their religious belief and they fit in very constructively to the world. I am meeting so many BKs who are exactly like that. My experience does not match what you make out, ex-I. I wonder what it was that you experienced that has driven you to form such strong blanket views that BK is so evil.

My fundamental point is that it is possible to take a religion with such a teaching about world transformation, "end of the world" if you want to be simplistic, in either a contructive and sustaining way, or to turn it into a negative and harmful experience. Either way is possible: lovely Christian church vs Jim Jones or Ku Klux Klan.

Both say they are Christians. Which really is? They both claim the mantle.

You have to use your intellect in life. Sorry, but you do. Whether you are a BK or a Christian or a Muslim or an atheist. You have to discriminate what is right and what is wrong, what is healthy and what is unhealthy.

I have acknowledged and accepted that mistakes are made within BK. Would you expect any different from any group of human beings? But it's up to each of us how we take any spiritual path, including BK. And including the many other wonderful and worthy spiritual paths out there, Islam, New Age spiritualism, sufi, Zen, and all the rest.

Having a negative experience with BK is very sad. As I said, I believe we bring negative tendencies to it and those latch on to particular items. If you have a crap life as a BK, it is good to wake up from that and re examine life. My fundamental point is that the teachings do not have to be taken that way.

LIfe is truely what you make of it, including BK Raj Yoga.

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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post22 Feb 2010

I guess swordofjustice did not stay long enough to read child X's letter. :sad:
February 1999


I am finally sitting down and writing you this letter, because you have been a friend, someone I have felt cares for me, someone I have looked up to in my life, or someone that perhaps has looked up to me. This is not a letter I ever thought I would be writing, and it is painful for me to write it, but I feel I would like to express to you some of the things that have been going on throughout my life. I should have said these things many years ago, but I didn’t have the "guts".

It won’t be long before this letter hits the grapevine and people will be talking about it. But I hope that you, to whom I am actually writing, will at least empathize with what I have to say and think about it.

This letter is not about the BK philosophies, but rather their values. Whether The Cycle is 5000 years long is neither here nor there, but the way I was taught to feel and perceive is my concern. Doubtless the two are connected, but philosophy can be debated until you’re blue in the face. My experience is what it is.

I don’t really know how to go about writing this at all, as there are so many complicated issues at stake, and many good things are mixed in with the bad, so bare with me. This is the culmination of many years of experience and searching for the truth within me, I haven’t all of a sudden become dissatisfied due to my present situation, and decided to write this. I have never really been satisfied. I always wanted to be somewhere else or someone else.

My observations and concerns about the BK’s have built up over the last few years. I would complain and gossip to relieve some of the pressure, but that is not good for the soul. And if none of you knew how I was feeling despite the many years I have known you, then what does that show? How can an organisation call itself your family if it knows nothing about you?

I suppose the best way to start is from the beginning. Let me tell you how "lucky" I was to be brought up in the BK institution. How nice it was to feel superior to all the other children at school, how remembering Baba would make the bullies leave me alone, and how it was nice never to be able to talk properly to my own Father, because he was not my true Father.

For twenty-odd years I was unable to talk to my Father because he was someone that needed to be served or saved, though, if he were lucky enough, he would have a ticket to heaven just because he knew us. Can you imagine trying to make small talk with your own Father as a child, because he was some kind of "Shudra"? And now to look back and see that I had a Father but in my own head I didn’t. How much did I miss? When my parents split up because of "Gyan", what did the Seniors do for me then, did they hold me when I cried? They might have given me an apple, though I am sure I would have rather had my parents back.

It was my mother that brought us into the institution and I don’t blame her for that. She did what she thought was best for us, as any mother would do for her children. She loved us and encouraged us with all her heart and still does. I do have issues that I need to resolve with my mother, but they are not part of this letter and should not be mixed up. Every child needs to talk to its parents and sort things out. But my upbringing has been unusual, to say the least, and it really involves a lot more people than just my parents.

As a BK child I was bullied at school and I found I had no ability to deal with people or confrontation, all I could do was cry and my mother would have to sort it out. I had no ability to socialize with people, that made me very lonely. I could never have any close friends. And when I told the other school children about the end of the world I was ridiculed for years after. Did the fact that I didn’t mix really make me so lucky?

Childhood in general was very mixed up for me, and I do believe that to be so for many BK children. On one level it was taken away from me: "you are an old soul". People thought I was like an old man when I was about 12. And the responsibility of the world was placed on my shoulders, let alone that of saving my own Father. It’s not fair to give children this kind of superiority complex and burden, yet still treat them as children. And then to give them so many "hopes" to live up to, as well.

Then again, we were never allowed to grow up. For example, my Sister was always the angel, until she became a teenager when she fell from grace in the eyes of others. How can she ever love herself when she can see herself changing from a perfect angel to a menstruating, acne-ridden teenager? And when everyone can only remember that little angel that she was. And for myself, how the hell was I going to understand pubity? The beginning of sexual energies could inspire nothing less than self-hate and denial.

What advice could the Seniors give me then? Whatever they said only made me feel worse about myself. Who could I even tell? Not my own parents, or BK friends, there was too much shame. To believe that by masturbating you are letting God and the whole world down and carving yourself a pathway to hell is ludicrous. Was my semen one of the world’s last natural resources or something? Teenage years were not normal to say the least. I never rebelled against my parents, or anyone, because by then I was already conforming to "God’s will" for the good of humanity.

At 16 years, I should have at least been sat down by the Seniors and asked whether this was what I wanted in my life. Someone should have said to me: "You are old enough to decide things now, why don’t you go and look at what the world has to offer, then decide if you want this life or not." Even that would have been too late, I was already so sure that this was for me – how little I knew. Some of you must have known better and could have done something, surely. I can’t bear to see the same thing happening to future generations.

And what about fun? I only had fun because others and myself were "naughty"; otherwise it was certainly not condoned. Though there were certain days when you could dance in a circle. I was a feisty, energetic child, who was pushed into being a "mature", quiet, "knowledgeable soul". There is a line in a film that comes to mind: "If you’re not going to have any fun than what are you saving the world for?"

You could say that I had so many chances to perform in plays, travel the world, meet people, etc, but they all came at a price. I could never do these things on my own terms. I did have fun performing on stage, as any child of my nature would. But later on the plays and productions we did, were done in spite of the lack of encouragement, positive distrust and censorship.

The arts were always looked down upon; perhaps it was an Indian thing? Though that has changed a bit nowadays. I felt that I had to fight to do service – fight the very people that wanted it done. And I was willing to do this because of the promise of a higher purpose. I remember we created a team of artists to become a design team for the BKs, but we got nowhere, and we had to fight for it – why did we bother? Were we so gullible? It was a genuine gesture to do something useful and use our "potentials" as I was so often told to do.

To be fair I did receive encouragement, help and fun from certain individuals during my life, but that was still only within the parameters provided by the BKs. I thank them for that and give credit to them. They did it because that was their nature anyway. I believe they were nice people and would have been even if not BKs.

Then there was destruction! A concept that in my observations and experience can do nothing but destruct. The BKs themselves teach that if you focus on the negative it will get the better of you. Destruction has been an important part of my upbringing and it has done nothing but damage. It can only fuel hopelessness, fear, panic, guilt and pain. How was I supposed to be able to do anything worthwhile with my life if it was all to be over soon? I should have just sat and meditated alone until becoming "Karmateet". Yet I was supposed to live in the world as well. What was I supposed to do? How confused can that make a child?

If Destruction is coming then you might as well see the world and have some fun while you can. There was no point to studying, as I heard so often, but then working in an underpaid "office job" was okay. Why? Was it only money that was worthwhile for the institution? Could they not be offered anything else? Was my spirit not enough? As far as I could see, both studying and working occupied your time when you should be preparing to die. The BKs taught me how to die, not how to live. If I am going to help humanity than I am going to do it because I want to and on my terms, not because the world will end.

I used to say to people since last year that I learned more self-respect and gained more strength in the few years I learned Kung Fu than in the 20 years of serious "effort" with the BKs. Yet I was supposed to be able to cope with world destruction. After twenty years of meditation, I should be able to stand on my own feet; I shouldn’t need Dadi to give me Toli before I can go outside.

I have never known basic human rights, even to have had them taken away from me. Look at it: The right to eat, drink, sleep, feel, fornicate, defecate, speak freely, have friends of your own choice, have a family. Not one of those things could I do without feeling bad or guilty about it. I even had to remain constipated until I could find a shower! I do not believe that is a healthy way for a child to grow up. I used to get up, get taken to class and sit there sleeping. Even today you will see many people get up religiously, attend class and sleep and be tired all day at work, in the hope that just by turning up they are doing something for their spirit. These things make me angry.

Anger is something else that I could never have. I was never angry, and I used to think that was a good thing. But it was a terrible thing, because anger was there and it could only come out through constant irritation and sorrow. Emotions would come out sideways, as I was never taught how to handle them head on. I don’t know what it means to throw a tantrum at my parents. I have never even been irritated at my Father, because I was always on show for him. Even towards my mother I could only express very controlled words and sulk a bit, because I knew it was wrong, though inside I was fuming. That anger is still there and only now am I trying to deal with it.

Did any of you know that about me? I doubt it. Emotions had to be kept well under wraps lest the peace and harmony be spoilt. This, I believe, is very unhealthy, especially for a child. To cause children to suppress their feelings is nothing less than abuse. The BKs are such a "peaceful" organisation, so "humble and caring"; but its only skin deep. Scratch the surface a bit, push the right buttons and they are just as angry as the next person is, indeed more so because they are delusional about it. The only thing wrong with that is hypocrisy. And BKs take the meaning of that word to the extreme. I am sure you have all seen it to different levels and even to the highest. To sit back and see this happening does not compute with my integrity. They should either change policy or be honest. Yet most BKs seem to be unable to hear a bad word said about the organisation, why? Is it because people would rather not see what they see? Surely a policy of self-examination and constructive criticism is required in any good organisation?

This brings me on to say that some of you "Brothers" that "left Gyan" were my teachers and mentors in those years. I looked up to you and believed everything you said. Having willfully abandoned my own Father and family, you became Father-figures to me, in a world of women. Then for some reason you left "Gyan". Disappeared without a word and left me and my generation wondering "why?" If you found something better or realized something was wrong - why did you not tell me about it? Why did you leave me there? You were conveniently pushed under the carpet by the institution and I heard many stories about you that I couldn’t understand. I thought about you for a long time after, and still do.

I really do not want those of you that looked up to me in the same way to feel like that, which is why I have included you in this letter. I want to apologize for helping to perpetuate some of the hang-ups and untruths that you may also face in your life now. But I can only say in my defence that I knew no better and I was genuine in what I said and believed. I still am. And I will always be there for you if you need to talk, and if you are ready to hear the advice that I have accrued over the last 20 years. Please do not think that I have betrayed you by writing this letter, but rather that I would have, had I not done so.

My student days were painful. It was hard to feel ambition or any kind of joy in doing things for myself, though I am naturally ambitious and determined. I enjoyed studying; especially my degree, but those were also the years I was a "space cadet". (Its funny that we used to joke about being fundamentalist if we knew it was wrong, yet still perpetuated it.) I did not mix with anyone and just kept myself to my chart. It was a constant battle to try and live in two worlds and split my intellect between them. How was I supposed to remember Baba and solve abstract mathematical problems?

I served my time as a "centre niwasi" during my degree and I lived with a very regimental, authoritarian Brother. It was awful. Do the BKs have any idea about the people that run their centres? At that time I did not even have the London BK family to support me, and I felt abandoned. But I thought I was some kind of "spiritual teacher", and it was my duty to be able to handle it. What could I have known at that age?

If I am going to start something I will do the best I can. I am someone that strives for perfection and success, which is why I was so "pukka" and lasted so many years as a BK when so many of my generation "fell by the wayside". If I believe I have to make efforts, attend classes, wear white to achieve spirituality then I will do it. I was up at 2am meditating until 5.30. Going to Baba Bhavan every morning and staying there until it was time to go to Dudden Hill for class. I was called a Dada on occasion, which for a teenager is quite a mix-up. I did everything "right" and received all the praise from Dadi. I even adopted an Indian personality, as it seemed the best way to "come close". My mother and Sister (let alone my Father) were nothing more than irritations for me. Obstacles in my path to the "Karmateet" stage. I was perceived to be a successful "effort-maker" and an example of the "perfect Western Kumar". I did indeed make sincere efforts without coveting overt name and fame. But I was arrogant, delusional and imbalanced. I was so far from reality and who I really was.

The Hindi class and Dadi loved me, but as some kind of a gimmick or showpiece, whereas the English class couldn’t relate to me at all. It hurts me to think of those years and how far I was misled. I am, by nature, trusting and innocent; I am not a cynic. I have always believed that things would be alright in the end if I just stick with them. I clung to the fragile dream of the BK world and gave everything. I feel that my trusting nature has been abused. I did things by the book, remained pure, barely even flirted, been honest and, in short, given the best years of my life away. Yet because I gave it away of my own "free will" it was okay. What chance does a child have to develop itself in that organisation? Did I ever have free will?

You may be wondering if I have forgotten my experiences in Yoga, and certainly during my fundamentalist years I had many of them. But I would like to point out that the BKs do not have a monopoly on meditation, trance-states, possession and voices from God or visions. They are ubiquitous throughout the cultures of the world and anyone can access deeper spiritual modes through penance, extenuating circumstances, hallucinogens or whatever. I was relieved to find that I can still access my spiritual side without walking into GCH, and without imagining Brahma’s face. Truth and spirituality can be found everywhere, by their very definition, and not just in the small world of the BKs.

I feel that after all these years the BK organisation, as it is, does nothing for your spirit, in fact it is detrimental to it. The atmosphere does not encourage individuality, though if you stand out in spite of it you are frowned on or praised, depending on whatever the flavour of the month is.

I feel that my spirit has been crushed, and I see that in so many of my compadres who are still BKs. I feel like a wild horse that has been tamed and now can only run for its rider and cannot run free for itself. It feels like I have to fight for my own freedom. This is a battle within myself. But the BKs work within you, never that overtly. I was never tamed with a whip, but with sweet guilt-ridden words. The passion, the verve for life and creativity that I see in many "normal" people I never had. It felt hard to do anything for myself. Often people would say that I was wasting my life, but I had no drive. I thought that to work or study was a waste of time when I could be doing "service". These ideas made me lost and confused. Everything seemed hopeless or pointless.

Sometimes I had to fight to wake up at all. I spent five years writing a book, and I had to keep that a secret because I knew it would be frowned upon. Even as I wrote it I had to censor myself, I had to justify to myself that it was "good service". Then I began martial arts about 7 years ago and kept that secret as well. There was a constant battle inside me as to whether I could be a BK and do Kung Fu, even though I was unfit and overweight and had to do something. How can any organisation that claims to be spiritual be so closed minded and blinkered? Surely that goes against the ideals of holistic living?

Spirit is something alive and free, it needs to be encouraged to find itself, to explore, to create and to stand on its own two feet. Ultimately I do not feel that the BKs can teach people to look after themselves, you are spoon-fed their own special brand of spirituality, and just by following a few basic principles you can get to heaven. True spirituality is more than that, it has to be. It is a holistic thing. The Chinese have a saying: "If your feet don’t touch the ground your hands can’t touch the heavens".

The BKs want to reach heaven, but their feet are nowhere near the ground! They need some serious grounding. I used to say that if all the BKs disappeared and GCH was destroyed, I would still have my spirituality. And now I am finding out how hard that really is. Effectively I have created that situation for myself and it is hard to find my own spirituality, because I am still attached to the BKs and feel that I have to be there to be spiritual. That notion has been implanted in me as a child.

I would like to say that I have tried for many years to affect change within the BKs. I have not been just idly complaining. I did workshops and held meetings and debates in which I questioned the things we believed and the attitudes we had. I even asked the question: "Who are the BKs?" I was greeted with suspicion, contempt or tolerance. If what the BKs have is so wonderful and strong then why not be open and let people see everything? They should be saying: "come and look in every corner, we have nothing to hide!" Why all the panic of trying to keep people? It should be easy to come and go without being treated as a traitor or a failure. Instead they project themselves as some kind of "executive training programme", embarrassed of their humble beginnings as an Indian cult.

As an organisation it seems totally obsessed with its own glorification. It must look good above all else. In doing this it has sold out all spirituality and become a commercial venture. Enough is enough. I feel now that there was nothing I could do from the inside, and it was hurting me too much to see people turned into mindless zealots, so I can only now stand up for integrity and honesty by writing this letter and resigning formally. A bit dramatic I know, but I am very serious. I hope someone will finally sit up at take notice of what I say.

You may wander at how I can doubt the values of this organisation, as it preaches values itself; but I do. Is not equality of rich and poor, black or white, man or woman, BK and non-BK an important value? Then what about the unbending heirachy? The preferred treatment of the rich and famous? The blind arrogance of deciding what is pure and what isn’t; who is good company and who isn’t? Need I go on? They say that they teach by example, but do they? The Seniors are our examples, yet they live lives so different to us on the grass roots. Served hand and foot while we dote over them, hanging on their every word, imagining they know our very thoughts. Gandhi led India to freedom because of his integrity. He lived a poor man’s life to prove we are all equal. Ask yourself will you ever really feel equal to the Seniors, or the Seniors ever feel equal to you? Just because they visit your house are they living at your level? Who put them up there as "representatives of God"?

The BKs are a charity. Charities donate things to people that are worse off. Does it require such vast acquisitions of wealth and property to do "service of the mind"? They collect money, but donate "virtues and good wishes". We are encouraged to collect money and give it away to them, yet they don’t give anything away. As far as I know they won’t even sponsor their smaller centres, it’s the other way round. The smaller centres (run by people who work as well) have to provide for the expanding mother. Let’s see something valuable done with that money!

I remember sitting in front of Avyakt BapDada and watching as the Seniors all sat there crowding him for hours. It made me quite jealous. They have known him all their lives, lived with Baba, and yet still need all the attention. I myself used to sit at the back of the hall so that newcomers could have a better view. But if I followed the example of the Seniors where would I be sitting? One rule for one and another for another it seems.

I was told not to judge people or categorize them, but the example of the Seniors does not follow. If any of you have been the victim of gossip, you will realise that they believe the first thing that they hear about you. And I can guarantee they will be jumping to conclusions about me right now, categorizing me as an "X-BK", but will they be able to spare the time to come "down" to my level and try to understand me? Or will they just have words with my mother? If I turned up to class tomorrow morning wearing my white kurtas, would they not see me differently? How shallow is that?

For an organisation that says we’re on the family path, look what happened to my family. Look how parents treat their kids. Where are the family values in the BKs own families? They are just for show it seems. Once more if things are okay on the surface, everyone is attending class, then they are the perfect example. Don’t let’s hear about what goes on behind the closed doors. In fact you are positively encouraged to disassociate yourself from your own family - they become "lokiks". For me, as a child or young person, how could I ever leave the BKs? Since my blood family no longer counted, I would be leaving my "true family" - which no child can do!

There is a saying that I heard about the BKs: "when they want something from you, they are a family, when you need something in return, they are an institution." It is very unpleasant to play with people’s feelings like that. I am sure you know what I am talking about.

Perhaps now you are wondering if I have sent this letter to the Seniors. No, I have not. Why? Because I do not feel that they have been close to me in the same way as you have. They have never let me close to their level. I only ever had an official relationship with them, without any genuine contact or empathy, just one-way traffic. I have only really been afraid, in awe, or defiant of them, never friends; though I did try. Besides, I know they will get this letter anyhow.

It seems that the BKs only attract certain types of people. No people that are already strong in their own identity and successful in their lives, but people that are mixed up, hopeless and failed in their relationships. Hence all the stories of "zero to hero". In that weakened state people need the world to be small and simple; they need reasons for everything and people to tell them what to do (indeed God), so that they can control life again. The organisation is such that it seems to perpetuate this neediness, like an overprotective mother, incestuously attached to her child. When you join the BKs you are handing over your "self sovereignty"; your freedom and it feels good because of the security you get in return. But is it a true security? Or have you just been suckered?

As an adult you have the right to be gullible and give your life away if you choose, but as a child you are by nature gullible. I do feel now that I am a strong personality and always have been, which is why I was a leader in my own way as a BK and why I made "efforts" with integrity as I am sure you do know that about me. But I feel that the things I took on board were not suitable for someone with spirit, like me, someone who has the ability to control their own life and make decisions on their own. That personality has been oppressed in me and instead I picked up the personality of dependence and accountability. Where I not brought up as a BK I now don’t think I would be one. I think I would have grown up as a strong, independent man with a healthy interest in spirituality, instead of a small, dependent boy who believed he was the answer to the world’s problems.

"You should always say ‘Yes’", "you are an instrument of Baba", "surrender your intellect", are comments that I would often hear. What do these do to you? Take everything away. You become a nothing, just a spoon for God to eat with. Even your "talents" and "virtues" are no longer yours, but Baba’s. Everything you have has been given to you, because you are so "lucky". These ideas cannot create strong individuals in my opinion. Because a strong person knows who they are and their abilities belong to them. If a non-BK is talented in something was that Baba’s blessing? I would so often hear that people do things for Baba and I would always wonder why. Surely God doesn’t need anything. Do I have to cook for him? Even if taken metaphorically these ideas take away the individual’s power to act for themselves. I was taught always to look towards Baba or the Seniors and never to find strength from within myself. That is not self-empowerment.

Any good spiritual healer, with the genuine interest in helping you would not want to keep hold of you. They would want to help you to heal yourself and move on – leaving them behind. You would leave them without pain of separation; indeed would leave with a warm glow. But here, after 20 years of so called help, look at the problems I face in my life now and the "healer" still wants me to come everyday. I was virtually born into this organisation so surely my problems should have been cured even before I got them! Then again I suppose I did have "Maya", "past karma", "clash of sanskars" or any other convenient excuse to hide behind.

I could always find something to blame other than the organisation - usually myself. If this was a genuinely caring and warm organisation with the spirit of freedom I should be leaving now with fond thoughts and thanks, the legacy of spirituality should leave me feeling strong and good about myself in whatever I do, rather than battling with residual guilt and anger.

Let me talk about sex now.

In fact why has that been always so hard to speak of? Are you now cringing inside as I was for so many years? Shrinking away at the very mention of the word "sex". Or perhaps you would like to hear if I have any exploits to tell to fuel your imagination? Has it been suppressed so much? Externally I could talk about the efforts I made to conquer "lust", but inside I hoped no-one would ever see my real feelings. I now feel that celibacy as taught by the BKs is irresponsible. You cannot just be told to be celibate for the good of the world, there is a lot more to it than that. I was the only person to write something for BKs about celibacy and send it round the world – and I wrote that as a teenager. Who told me how to be celibate? The Taoists have the right idea; they developed exercises to elevate your sexual energies, practical things that you can do, instead of just "remembering Baba".

I put it to you that most of the problems in the BKs come from unresolved sexual desires. If you try and switch off your natural instincts and emotions it is bound to twist your motivations. Manifesting, for example, in perversion, power struggles and grown people flirting like twelve-year-olds! Power has become an important issue in the BKs and there seems to be so much available, so many ways to manipulate and control people. Perhaps the thirst for power and position compensates for that of sex. People who "need" power thrive in that organisation.

Repressed sexuality also opens the doors to all kinds of abuse. My Sister and her friend as young children were sexually abused, on several occasions and by different people in Madhuban and Delhi. The Seniors were informed, but did nothing. It seems that they blame the victim for "attracting it" no matter how young they may be. That somehow women attract rape. What "Women’s Organisation" would allow that attitude? And these people have the gall to say that the vibrations of Madhuban are so "pure" and that nothing bad could ever happen in "God’s home". I remember my Sister telling me about the "Brother" that did this to her, but what could I do to protect my Sister when I was only 12 years old myself? Though, I believed her and would have done whatever I could to prevent it happening again, (It did happen again). If I saw this happening now –woe betide! My mother was also powerless to do anything. Do not look too closely or listen to too many stories, lest the fragile dream be shattered! What makes it worse is that the Seniors have always been aware of these all-too-common travesties yet have done nothing except hide them away. How can I affiliate myself with any organisation like that?

I found that I had to split my personality, into that dark and the light. The dark side was called "old sanskars" or "karma" or "Maya", or whatever other excuse I was given, whereas the light was the "real me". I always hoped that those sexual feelings might just go away, I certainly made enough efforts, though I came to the conclusion years ago that they would always be there and I would just have to keep them hidden or let them out secretly.

All I learnt from the BK’s is to suppress things, so that the surface is calm. Which is why people that are good at that can achieve so much in that organisation; they can get away with murder if they are able to smile afterwards. Again, this rankles my integrity.

Attitudes to sex, I think, are very closely connected to attitudes towards men. The BKs are traditionally run by Indian women that have had unfortunate experiences with men. Men will either rape you, beat you, or leave you, given half the chance. And men have an uncontrollable desire for sex (and women don’t.) This is nonsense, of course, yet we hear very little about women’s sexuality from the BKs except that they are "impure" when menstruating – another incredible act of sabotage towards women’s rights by a Women’s Organisation. Basically, men cannot really be trusted, especially the ones with facial hair, (except Brahma of course).

Are there any manly men in the BKs? I can’t think of any regular attending man that isn’t in some way self-effacing, effeminate, or quiet. In the early days I used to wish I were a Sister so that I could surrender and achieve the "purity" and "status" that only they could achieve. A couple of months ago I was with a group of BKs and someone joked that I had a lot of "Macho ego", but I am just a regular guy. Can they really not tell the difference between a good, honest man and a misogynist, arrogant lecher? There is nothing wrong with being a man! Tell me that these ideas do not affect your natural instincts. In an organisation run by neurotic women what chance did I have of becoming a man?

I was essentially brought up by the BKs and hence where I am today surely is partly their responsibility, is it not? And if I, someone with so much capacity to do service, one-time "Dadi’s pet", am leaving in bitterness, surely they must look at themselves? Will they accept even part of the responsibility and not make the same mistakes again? Indeed, will I get an apology? I doubt it.

Once more I will be expected to blame myself, as it is conveniently all just "karma". They may try to get me back with smiles and Toli, so I cannot badmouth them anymore. But frankly, I no longer want my good name dragged down with them. I am no longer a pawn to be played or a "subject" in the "Kingdom". I will settle for "cremator status", it is honest work and at least I shall be free. I do believe that we are all ultimately responsible for our own lives, and I feel that by writing this letter I am accepting that responsibility and leaving some of the pain and confusion behind.

Did you find this hard to read? If so, why? It should not be difficult to express freely or listen freely. There is so much to write and I am finding it hard to stop, but I have to end somewhere. There will be other letters I am sure, not only from me, but there are many more people with similar experiences that could write just as much as me. But it is hard. I had to fight everything in me to write this, I had to fight the guilt that it would be "disservice". Can you see how well I have been controlled? I cannot even say what I feel without difficulty. Is that freedom? I feel like I am standing alone against the world I have known, and it takes courage. I hope you can appreciate that.

So what do you think of me now? Have I forfeited the place in the Golden Age, which I was promised? Am I still a second-birth Brahmin, or have I forfeited that as well? Am I still a member of "the family", or have I been disowned? Or was I ever a member of "the family"? Can you really tell me what you think or will there be a hidden agenda when you talk to me?

You may think that five years down the line I would have worked it out of my system. Had my relationships and done all the "normal" things until I fail in them or reach boredom and decide to come back. Some people have done this, which doesn’t surprise me, because what you learn from the BKs doesn’t help you with facing relationships or the "real world", so its no wonder people fail and return to be mollycoddled. (The BKs seem to be proud of this.) Or perhaps they want to keep one foot in the BK boat – just in case. But that isn’t me.

I have never been shallow, and whatever I do, I do with integrity. Because I have always been caring, honourable, honest and good-natured. I hope you know this about me. I was always like this regardless of whether I attended class or not, or the "fluctuations" in my "efforts". This is me and I still am that. I don’t have the BKs to thank for these qualities and I don’t have to hand them in at reception when I leave! All life is an adventure and a mystery, both physical and spiritual and the world is not as small and simple, as we sometimes like to believe. But I would like to tread that path on my own terms and find my own guides along the way, the most important of which is me.

With Love,

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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post23 Feb 2010

If we accept the BKWSU philosophy that there are "spirits" behind the scenes, in some other realm, guiding the Brahma Kumaris to "Victory" ...

    Then it is 'my opinion' that those spirits are insane, human hating, genocidal maniacs. Criminally clever and manipulative ... but not that intelligent because they leave too many clues and trails behind them!
Following them, falling under their psychic influence, brings about anything from confusion to, literally, shared psychopathic tendencies in individuals.

You need to be naive, damaged or vulnerable to fall under their influence.
swordofjustice wrote:So this topic is one which has been present in both respectable religions and dodgy cults.

What is and is not a "respectable religion" is only an opinion. On one hand, is rampant Catholic child sex abuse "respectable"? On the other, are not Judaism and Islam, 'child sex mutilation cults' just like barbaric African tribes?

What is a history fact is that when those so called "respectable religions" (your and their opinion only) engaged or engage in End of the World-ism ... they too do/were nothing but "dodgy cults". Far worse than "dodgy cults", they were generally engaged in widespread genocide, sexual abuse, internecine (family) murders and robbery.

But please, for a moment, look at the failings in your own logic, and how it reflects the typically manipulative BK style.

    Who or what is "Christianity", "Islam" or "Judaism"? Because they are surely not one. There are many "dodgy" Christian, Islamic or Judaic cults some of which are STILL involved in widespread genocide, sexual abuse, internecine murders and robbery, and not just those above.
The Brahma Kumaris find themselves amongst the ranks of "dodgy End of the World cults" because they base their teachings, management and evangelism on proven lies, deceptions and manipulations of 'the truth'. Their OWN truth!

You must remember in the beginning, they were actually writing to military leaders INSTRUCTING THEM to enact martial law and carry out scorched earth tactics on the world. That is extreme. For the middle phase of their teachings, they taught that their meditation will directly bring about Nuclear Destruction, and until recently at least, that they will "Give courage" to the scientists to use the Nuclear weapons.

Whereas the chances of them achieving their aims is tiny ... I actually believe the chances of one of their followers bringing about military conflict between, say, India and Pakistan, is possible. See, The Missile Man topic. If they are successful at "giving courage" in order to bring about a nuclear war ... they will become the dodgiest cult in all history.
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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post24 Feb 2010

Hi Tete,

No, I have read that letter. I read it some months ago. I was quite touched by it. This forum does present serious and very good debate. That letter really does need an answer and it is time for me to answer that.

    - My heart went out to that person. The whole letter seemed to me to be a cry from the heart. Totally sincere, totally honest. I love this letter and I wish the person all the very best in their life journey.
    - I am so very pleased that this person has left BK and is doing martial arts and other stuff that he is finding constructive. I, too, thought of doing martial arts. Go for it, buddy, I say!
    - I accept he found Destruction soul crushing. But I find that such a shame for reasons I already posted, that is, there are constructive ways to view this area of teaching.
    - If any of the leadership have been reinforcing that negative view, they are seriously wrong. This is blind, this is stupid, this causes emotional damage. Shame on them!
    - I am horrified to read of the clumsy way this person has been treated when he approached BKs for assistance. Examples of a complete lack of compassion. My heart is hurt by this. I wish I was there to counter it. I can think of ways
    - How the BK movement treats children seems to need some wisdom. It is RIGHT TO RUN AROUND AS A BOISTEROUS CHILD!!! Sure, teach your kids about BK. Fine, no problem. But give them choice for God's sake. They are their own people, they are eternal souls. They might very well not WANT to be BKs. Teach them about sex non judgementally. Then give them a calm, rational view of why you personally stay celibate and what the benefits could possibly be. AND NEVER FORGET TO LOVE YOUR CHILDREN NO MATTER WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO!!!
You know what, this letter is not a lie. The sincerity and heartfelt nature of it shines from every sentence. This person also is not simply here attacking BK. He is calmly expressing his experience in a balanced way.

And you know what else, this letter has really opened my eyes to the BK path. This blind religious spouting of values while not practising its values in a practical and genuine form obviously has permeated the entire BK path for decades.

Yet, I am not reviled by the path. In fairness to BK, there is still MUCH GOOD in it and in BKs. I like this letter acknowledging the good stuff too. This person had some good experiences. I am utterly impressed at how calm and honest this person is.

I don't see that blind stupidity so much here in the BKs I've met in Australia. I don't know if Oz BKs are different to other parts of the world. My sincerest hope is that all BKs leave that fundamentalist Hindu garbage behind. Look at how it hurt this beautiful soul. This soul is not "a weak brick". Have you not listened to BapDada's beautiful and truth filled Murlis on Good Wishes for Others? No? Then read it again and again and again until it's message reaches your BK heart. Calling someone who is sincere yet struggles with BK a "weak brick" is not following divine instructions. It is not. It hurts that one. These hard, cold words are like curses for that soul.

It is the duty of an honest, sincere BK to live with compassion and love.

To be an honest and true BK, you must live very much from your heart. You must enjoy life, you must be generous hearted, you must show love, you must have empathy for others, you must be whole hearted in your practice of spirituality. In doing this, there is no chance of hipocrasy. Ego has many subtle forms. You must be honest with yourself, on the deepest levels. Humility is divine and through that, we come closer to God. Even in the most basic Sakar Murli, it is directed to be honest with God and admit your mistake if you make one and say "sorry". To hurt another soul with fundamentalist opinions on this path is a mistake. If you are a BK who reads this and you have done that, you need to say sorry to God. But don't beat yourself, just learn and grow and be a better person from now on.

I am so determined to be a BK again now, but I am determined to be one of a different mould and never fall into this stupidity. I pray I find the strength inside and the strength from the divine to maintain that good space if I ever am confronted with some well established BK spouting that to my face. My aim would be not to hate that one either, but also to firmly maintain my own truth. Perhaps I can calmly find some gentle words that will make that one pause and reconsider these shallow opinions and reach a deeper, more compassionate understanding on the teachings of BK Raj Yoga? I sincerely hope so.

Peace to all of you. I see where you are coming from, Ex-I. You got sick of this hypocrisy. I am fresh and I will stand on this battlefield with my sincerity as a shield.



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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post25 Feb 2010

The concept of Destruction, or whatever word you want to substitute, has always been used as a fear based control mechanism in any religion, cult, group, belief structure in which it features. It is a tool to make people conform through fear - failing on 'Judgement Day', having a 'low status', displeasing God etc. Also guilt, for those groups who believe that it is up to them to save the world, purify the world or themselves as the new leaders, prepare for the coming New Age, Golden Age or whatever version that particular group has.

    Destruction is a tool of manipulation.

    Group conformity, the power of group consciousness is another tool.
Both are used by the BKs; it just doesn't seem so initially.

Sincere people get affected by both, little by little, slowly, over time. No matter how they start, it is a gradual process of extracting your will, to encourage 'surrender' until you are mouthing the same platitudes as the rest. There is no such thing as a different mould in the BKs, that is the whole purpose, to be the same. Wear the same, talk the same, and donate your energies in meditation and via the good wishes etc etc to the BapDada entity. The leadership has allowed Westerners to think that they can be 'individual' within the group, but the reality is that this just keeps them around longer and helps attract new people.

If that's what anyone deliberately chooses then that is up to them. Most people, however, join to do regular meditation, have some company with what they think are like minded people, engage in spiritual discussion, be of some benefit to the world, attain enlightenment or some degree of spiritual or personal growth.

It will seem for a while that they are receiving some of that ('feeling the pulse' means giving people the idea that they are going to get what they want, that they are indeed getting it), and then, when their intellect is suffiently dulled, their personal connections and activities all seem to lead to the BKs, and they have withdrawn from a full relationship with life - then, if they are honest with themselves, they will realise that this is not what they thought they were getting into.

It is no coincidence that many religious groups wanting to gain a convert will use some version of the concept of how the world is in such a terrible state and what are we going to do about it to draw us in. Destruction works. It is an emotionally charged hook.

Child X's powerful letter does not just demonstrate what growing up as a child in the BKs can result in. It shows the processes which draw us in to a complex web. As adults we are more experienced in life, but not immune.

When one's 'good wishes' and 'positive vibrations' are actually being used in an energetic sense to potentially end the world in all kinds of violent and unpleasant ways, then rational thinking would seem to have gone on a very long holiday.
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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post25 Feb 2010

Here is an account of the Brahma Kumaris beliefs, not your beliefs Sword, from an impressed their party ... their topic is actually fairly flattering, albeit exposing.

One interesting insight the author shares is further down in the article. It also fits in which fear based teachings.

How does mass possession by sinful, devilish souls when Destruction sound to you?
Some students may come to the conclusion that if the central spiritual source of Raj Yoga is something or someone other than God; they may be in great danger by leaving.

The sheer intensity of study and meditation, makes trying to return to a normal life very difficult. A student may find nothing to replace this. If they still believe the end of the world is rapidly approaching, normal life after leaving is very difficult.

One of the most important aspects of the Brahma Kumaris is its believed role during the final destruction of this world. Having followed the many processes of purification, detachment and dedication, each yogi is told he/she will transform into an angel while everything else is falling apart. Having become both a channel and vessel of God's love, they believe the time is quickly coming when they will radiate peace to the terrified and perishing multitudes.

They believe that the authorities will use them on TV, and many will be transported in helicopters to areas of severe suffering. Along with the peace they bring, their task will be to remind those about to die, that they are a "soul" and not just a perishable body.

Students are taught that the millions with no particular faith will suffer badly. It is said that on death, their souls will have no direction to go, and will seek to possess the mind and bodies of those still living. In other words, the living will be temporarily possessed by the many souls of the dead. This will cause great suffering as many souls fight for control of the one mind and body. A student believes his/her purity will afford protection from this.

The revelations gave no specific date for the final destruction, but explained that it would come when every last soul had left heaven to express itself in a body here on earth. This time will coincide with the final and total perfection and purification of the Raj Yogis [who will then be almost angelic]. There will be a brief period of world war and destruction, and then the end will come.

There is however, just one clue as to when a Raj Yogi estimates the end will be. The spiritual source that provided the original revelations has made many manifestations since. The highest yogis in the HQ in India periodically allow themselves to be possessed by that same source. It speaks volumes through them. This is the information the students study. It is understood that these manifestations will become systematically less frequent as time gets shorter. Just before the end, they will stop altogether.

It is said that in the early days the visits were almost daily, more recently they have become very rare.
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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post19 Oct 2010

The Christians recruited very successfully amongst the Vikings by selling the idea that Destruction was coming - and that was at the end of the first millennia. It's a cop out - a refusal to take responsibility for the world as it is and try to do something about it. Easier to just write it off or just leave it to the Gods, Aliens or politicians to save us from ourselves.

There will be no destruction; this is how the world is, and time to stop pontificating and find some way to make a positive contribution to the world no matter how small. We might do ourselves serious damage with nuclear weapons, or AIDS, or bioweapons, or an asteroid strike, or a nearby gamma ray burst from a supernova, and the Earth will be uninhabitable in 1.5 billion years anyway due to the sun expanding as it starts to run down on its store of hydrogen, but, hey, you might as well worry about being hit by lightning stepping out your front door.

The BKs have just cashed in on the same hysteria that religions have been promoting since the beginning of religion - control, control and more control. Nothing in the BK ideology is particularly unique, just a hodge podge of bits from other cults and religions. Get on with your life!
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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post23 Oct 2010

All that I am saying is that I have met very stable, lovely, decent people from other religions. You will no find shadow of wrongdoing in how they conduct themselves in their lives.

Yet they can approach their religion in a way that has nothing to do with what you are talking about: manipulation and the evil purposes that religion has at times been put to by unscrupulous people. It is a "long bow to draw" to claim that all religion is wrong because it contains teachings about the end of the world or because wrong doing has been done by practitioners falsely in the name of that religion.

It is also a very "long bow to draw" to claim Catholisicism is completely wrong because there has been child sex abuse. Or the Inquisition. Or the wrongdoings of medieval Popes. Or the Crusades. Or ... should I go on?

Would you like me to introduce you to generous, stable, happy, constructive Christians? If you don't believe they exist, it's time to broaden your personal horizons! They really do exist.

I have sat in Christian churches and seen the emotional sustenance such people take in the gathering of decent like minded people. They take the teachings of the Bible very constructively. Many are active in charities. I see the sustenance they get from that church gathering as the true meaning of the Christian concept of Fellowship.

Don't paint everyone with one brush because there is darkness and wrongdoing in the name of religion.

The Hopi Indians also have myths about the End of The World. Do you claim they too are manipulated and evil people? Look it up. I cannot find much on the internet but there is some. That Hopi mythology looks absolutely fascinating. I wish I could speak with one of them or a shaman.

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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post23 Oct 2010

swordofjustice wrote:All that I am saying is that I have met very stable, lovely, decent people from other religions. You will no find shadow of wrongdoing in how they conduct themselves in their lives.

The Hopi Indians also have myths about the End of The World. Do you claim they too are manipulated and evil people?

On one hand the Christians all eat meat, drive cars and consume, thereby causing suffering and global warming; on the other, the Hopis don't go about encouraging vulnerable, mainly uneducated, individuals that the End of the World is in 2 to 3 years, hiding a history of past failures, and taking money and family properties off them. The Hopi's God does not tell them they will be the ones to "give courage" to the scientists to use the Nuclear Weapons that will kill 6 billion.

I am sure you can meet good ordinary people in other religions. I am sure you can meet good ordinary people who have not one single breath of religion in them. Let us appreciate the perfectly decent humanists, atheists and secular individuals who have no time for any religious nonsense at all. But that is missing the point. The point is, what is it all being used for? Where is it all going? The purpose and effect.

What is the purpose of the Brahma Kumari machine? What, if you believe BapDada is a real spirit entity, is its actual agenda? Not what it says but what it has actually done.

You are offering us the basic Brahma Kumari defence, "Look at us, we are Om Shanti" (peaceful). The Brahma Kumari put inordinate amounts of time and energy into creating a facade of self-controlled "Om Shanti" ... a facade which hides what?

(Recently we read of some BK center-in-charge shouting and accusing a non-BK because they were having some kind of innocent relationship with a BK Brother whom the BK wanted total control of).

Look behind the 'Om Shanti' curtain and what do you find? 70 years of broken families, wasted lives, millions of dollars of other people's money spent on their madness, the property portfolio, the lies, the manipulations, the historical revision ... and still they are not finished. Did you read how in 1976, when they were telling their followers the world was going to end, that Janki Kirpalani oversaw the buying of a freehold property in London? Their first overseas center. The followers were throwing their money at them because the End of the World was coming, and the Kirpalani Klan was buying freehold property with it!!!

And then did you read that there was no God Shiva in their religion until after 1950 and that "God" Lekhraj Kirpalani had predicted Destructionin 1950? Do they tell people all this had gone on whilst they were slowly enculting them? In my time, Destruction was mid-1980s according to the Leaders and Murlis and that has been re-written as well. In fact, I wonder which one of them made it up in the first place?
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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post26 Oct 2010

Yeah I knew all that.

I suppose I am fundamentally saying BKs do heaps of good things too. Like actually get that hypnotic peace. Some stay in relationships, it's not all broken ones as you claim. I know a few couples who are active BKs here in Oz. It's a direct teaching of the Sakar Murli.

For the BKs who are OK people then, is giving their money wrong? If I consciously choose to do it without being pressured?

Again, it doesn't have to be so "fire and brimstone" as you present.

Real agenda of the ghost coming in to Dadi Gulzar? I've seen tears of love rolling down those cheeks.

That "total surrender" that BKs encourage is meant to be strong remembrance of God with understanding of a genuine love for all humanity. Your argument is that this is the indoctrination that causes emotional hurt, breaks up families, etc. You've seen actual real life damage from all that. Therefore you see the organisation as a sham and that's why it's wrong for it to seek money. It's an inherently wrong practice and organisation so giving it money is madness. Part of the mix as far as I can tell is also the changes in doctrine and teaching since the start in the 1930s which lead you to believe that it's a big fat con and nothing but lies designed to get money.

Can I accept that this teaching about "surrender" could be a forceful indoctrination which screws people up? Yes I can. I think that's very destructive.

Yet I believe I've met BKs who seem to be following it more constructively. They don't seem forceful, "dazed and confused" or emotionally dysfunctional. They seem balanced and on top of that I can see that they are getting that hypnotic trance state peace you mention. How could peaceful contemplation in a quiet room with nice music be wrong? F**k, my working life is bloody pressured sometimes. I need some peaceful detachment in my life. My body is getting older with some health problems. Let me chill out every freaking day because I need that.

So I don't see that the practice of BK has to be past all rationality, inherently negative, manipulating people to follow BK at any cost, emotional or otherwise. There is real world evidence I can offer to back that up also. Note I am not disputing what you've posted that you've seen where it all goes wrong.

Anyway, mate, I am posting my sincere and honest views. This is an ex BK forum not a forum for BKs. Feel free to PM me if you want discuss my hippie views of BK further but I won't continue on this forum. Peace everyone.

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Re: The whole teaching on Destruction

Post26 Oct 2010

swordofjustice wrote:Yeah I knew all that.

I'd like to know how you knew all that?

Details please.

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