BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

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dany

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BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post06 Jun 2012

And at the end of this retreat, we would like to thank Sister ( X ), who volunteered to fly thousands of miles to come over and help preparing (divine) food for Brothers and Sisters who attended this retreat ...!

Some forum members may not be aware that BKs should eat food prepared only by them or by other BK members, otherwise it will be contaminated by vices and not fit for consumption by the spiritually oriented BK followers!

It is customary that BK would arrange retreats in different locations of the world, in hotels or resorts, and invite key BK figures to lecture (Jayanti is a customary figure), most importantly to collect donations from the relatively rich attendees.

The paradox and hypocrisy of BK is that in their own Mount Abu headquarters, especially during peak seasons (like hotels), they hire female cooks from the neighbouring villages to help in the cooking in the kitchen, whose only knowledge of BK is that they are the people next door ... !!!
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ex-l

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post06 Jun 2012

Is that true? I don't doubt it but I'd never heard of it before. Was this something you saw or experienced yourself? You have some good 'inside' information of recent developments at the BKWSU. It sounds as if it is become far more commercial than even I realised. How do they justify it?

The Brahma Kumaris are not shy to use up the last of the world non-renewable and polluting resources flying their big wigs around the world ... the old world is going to be destroyed, they say, and so I suppose they think it is all there for them to use ... especially if there is a VIP to meet at the other end of it. Local centers seem to assert their worth to the Seniors by making offerings of these people. It may be the only time a VIP BK comes to visit them.

I do not know what it is like today but retreats in my day were attractive escapes from the painful boredom of day to day BK life and, especially, suffocating small centers ... a chance to have an "official sanctioned" holiday. No one in those days took real holidays. That would have been seen as a serious Maya and betrayal. They were a chance to get out and meet those interesting and attractive 'star' BKs you hoped to see again.

The BKs in the West, for the most part, have expensive "good" taste as far as their retreats go. In India, they seem to look more like civil service administration centers or business parks. Western BK retreats are pretty upmarket, perhaps prioritising the targeting of the middle classes, IP and VIPs rather than the hoi polloi.

No 'Butlins style' holiday camps nor working class inner city retreats for the BKs, and certainly not austerity like other monastic orders. Although the Global Retreat Center in Oxford is pretty cold, I hear.
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pawan_kr

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post10 May 2013

Why all BKs do not eat food made by others ?

Are their mind or will power so weak that they could be spoiled by eating food prepared by other even daughters or daughter-in-laws?

If yes, then what's the use of Yoga, as we know that Yoga or meditation makes a person’s will power strong.
is this to make feel that they are superior than others?

They say “JAISA ANN WAISA MANN”, they say the vibrations transfer through food from its maker to the eater, if they believe so then why don't they prepare food for all people and distribute them so that all pure vibrations of BKs transferred to others !!!!

Are vibrations not transfer through one’s money ???? Because I never heard that BKs refused someone’s donations on the basis that it's not hard earned or it's black-money.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 May 2013

pawan_kr wrote:Why all BKs do not eat food made by others ?

Are their mind or will power so weak that they could be spoiled by eating food prepared by other even daughters or daughter-in-laws?

If yes, then what's the use of Yoga, as we know that Yoga or meditation makes a person’s will power strong.
is this to make feel that they are superior than others?

Pawan - yes, it is often the case that idealogues of any exclusive truth set up 'standards' that appear to reinforce their high ideals and puritanical beliefs but at the same time can contradict other ideals and beliefs. i agree its primarily works to reinforce "superiority" and creates a self-fulfilling prophecy (e.g. they feel guilty if they eat non-BK food, and that feeling of guilt is disturbing, which only proves the spiritual stage is lowered by eating non-BK food!)

I remember, when I was a pukka BK pale excuse of a panther, asking a very Senior Sister what I should do at my workplace where the tea mugs were often filled with cigarette ash and mixed with meaty food scraps in the kitchen area etc. Should I take my own cup in, but that would likely not be respected and used in the same way...

Her answer was "but you are transforming the world with your Yoga power, can you not purify one teacup with your thought power?" Too right! I thought - and proceeded to wash the cups well, rinse with boiling water from the kettle (because bad vibes die at 100 degrees celsius) then "dristi" the cup for 30 seconds to give it that special Finish shine. Then make my drink.

Needless to say, this principle was not applicable to those who give such advice, some kept & used their own dedicated cutlery, plate, bowl and cup in their bhavans or centres, so as not to be contaminated by other BKs! (or maybe to not contaminate others with their foolishness?) - and some, when they travelled, took their eating utensils with them (even cutlery needs a holiday sometime).

Also as you might have guessed, such things come and go like fads, appearing and disappearing in certain places, like a mexican wave at the football game of life, such "standards" rise and fall having no effect on the actual game, being important momentarily and only for the participants.

That Senior Sister's double standards (at best) with her advice to me was strongly revealed when she even refused to eat food prepared specially for her by a BK centre in charge (only a so-called "Brother" it seems) a meal he'd meticulously prepared with specially bought best ingredients and formally offered as Bhog in seated meditation as BKs do. It was obviously accepted by the Baba as it was still there when the Bhog cloth was removed, but it was rejected by the so-called Senior Sister.

Mind you, it is seen in general society as well, where fad 'special diets" find otherwise "normal" people rejecting perfectly good healthy food offered by a host they accepted an invitation from to a meal, pulling out their plastic container of some leftover slop which they find preferable to (even often specially prepared for them) freshly made food, "just in case" there's something in it - even when they are told specifically that it is not the case and their needs were considered.

Give me a happy, intelligent, good-natured garlic-munching meat-eater dirty Shudra for company over a meal anyday than those many BKs who've become such grumblebum "misery guts" over food issues - and other things. Crabby,resentful, passive aggressive, unappreciative (indirectly cursing others for not being to their standard and making them HAVE TO take such extraordinary embarrassing steps).

A happy, healthy, intelligent, good natured vegetarian non-garlic munching pantherette would be even more appreciated . Must be lean but not mean, 5'6" or taller. See my ad in the BK.info new dating service pages. ;)
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ex-l

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 May 2013

pawan_kr wrote:Why all BKs do not eat food made by others ... if they believe so then why don't they prepare food for all people and distribute them so that all pure vibrations of BKs transferred to others !!!!

Personally, I think there is a more obvious "profit" to making their adherents not eat the food cooked by their own mothers ... it's about cutting off any social connections to non-BKs. They conquer families using divide and rule.

Traditionally, eating is a very social event. It binds families together. A meal is a time when the whole family comes together, talks and reinforces shared values.

I have come to believe that the devices the BKs use are not that deep or spiritual but just have an immediate superficial value. The BKs do everything to cut their adherents off from non-BK influence; no food, no love, no movies, no books, no socialising, no worship ... that is just about everything that binds people together.

I don't know how things are in India now but I suspect they are still pretty fundamentalist in this area. In the West the BKs have become a little bit more liberal but not much, especially if the individual want to rise up the ranks of the religion.

It's worth discussing more ... which is better.
    If a BK is really dumb and a non-BK is very intelligent ... is it not better to eat "intelligent vibrations"?
    If a BK is submissive and vulnerable and a non-BK is confident and self-assured ... is it not better to eat "confident and self-assured vibrations"?
    If a BK is corrupt, manipulative and hiding things and a non-BK is honest, sincere and open ... is it not better to eat "honest, sincere and open vibrations"?
Scientifically, how much influence does eating "impure" food really have? Let's see some statistics. Can there not, therefore, be benefit from "eating around" from other influences? Has the rest of the world really gone mad from eating "impure" food ... does anyone honestly believe they become sexy or angry from eating food made in a restaurant?
Are vibrations not transfer through one’s money ???? Because I never heard that BKs refused someone’s donations on the basis that it's not hard earned or it's black-money.

Ha ha ha ha ... I think you have answered your own question, pawan_kr ... because make food for the poor and hungry to eat costs money and the BKs don't spend or give away their money serving the poor ... they use it chasing the rich and powerful!

In the old days they used to say that they did not accept donations of money from anyone who was not following the principles, however, like so many of the rules they appear to have discarded that rule.

Actually, it appears to have come about in the middle period of their history as Lekhraj Kirpalani definitely accepted donations from non-BKs ... it kept them alive after his money ran out and Destruction did not happen.
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pawan_kr

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post13 May 2013

There are several holy places of different religions in India which serves food daily as the sacrament (prasad or toli) for examples Gurudwaras serve Langars daily and thousands and thousands of people eat the food from the public kitchen prepared by people who want to give their services to GOD.

I want to ask BKs can they tell what is the harm in eating from these holy places and how this food is different from that which is served in their kitchens?
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ex-l

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post13 May 2013

pawan_kr wrote:I want to ask BKs can they tell what is the harm in eating from these holy places and how this food is different from that which is served in their kitchens?

The difference and "harm" is that you might give donations to those temples and Gurudwars if you do. As I wrote, I think the real purpose for stopping adherents from eating non-BK food, is to mentally and social separate them from non-BK influences (people) who would challenge their BK beliefs.

For the longest part of their history, and generally since, the BKs have been against ordinary charity. They claim that it brings "limited" karmic rewards (whereas giving to their clever businessman god brings "unlimited rewards") and that, in essence, such karmic rewards are negative because they bind the would be BK to the recipient and to The Cycle of life and death.

I appreciate your logic ... if the BKs believe their mentality and food is superior, let them demonstrate it ... and prove *how* superior it is or prove if *all* BKs food is superior.

I think the habit is rooted in superstition, caste-ism (playing the part and pretending to be high caste "Brahmins" to make them look superior) ... and possibly earlier criticisms going back to the Om Mandli days when Lekhraj Kirpalani used to lay on many treats for the girls and women in order to seduce them into his cult.*

* (I have no specific evidence to support the last statement but many of their habits and historical revisions go back to negative reactions from that period. They did not emerge from out of the wisdom of their god and leaders as the BKs would have you believe but from reasonable members of the SIndi community ... in opposition to their wrong doings and excesses).

What does India think of the BKs claiming to be the true Brahmins; indeed, claiming that they are the only true Brahmins and everyone else including caste born Brahmins are actually Shudras?
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pawan_kr

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

moreclearnow wrote:Regarding food, yes, I personally believe the vibrations of the food has an effect on the mind.

Here I am not talking about vibrations of food or the effects of spices used in the food, I am talking about BKism knowledge of transferring vibrations from a family member who is cooking food to another family member who is eating that food.

You are trying OLD YUKTIS (escaping way) of BKs here by answering what is not asked :D :D :D.

Any response ??????

moreclearnow

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

pawan_kr wrote:Here I am not talking about vibrations of food or the effects of spices used in the food, I am talking about BKism knowledge of transferring vibrations from a family member who is cooking food to another family member who is eating that food.

You asked me whether I believe it or not. I said, yes, I personally believe vibrations of food have an effect and, yes, I meant vibrations of the person cooking has influence on the food just like vibrations of happiness or sadness of one person in the family are transferred to others. But I also admitted to what extent it has an effect I don't know as there is no way to prove this.

May be it doesn't have much effect and an unnecessary rule but how can one tell? I can only share what I personally believe which I chose through my own experiments and experiences. You believe it has no effect so it's your belief and I am not saying that's wrong.
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pawan_kr

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

moreclearnow wrote:yes, I personally believe vibrations of food have an effect and, yes, I meant vibrations of the person cooking has influence on the food just like vibrations of happiness or sadness of one person in the family are transferred to others.

As per your logic, do you also believe that a farmer's vibration also passes through the grains and vegetables?

moreclearnow

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

On farmers' question, I don't really know as I have never thought about the farmer vibrations effects on grain and never had related experiences. Generally speaking I would like to believe that there should be some effect as I believe mind has an effect over matter but I don't know to what extent and can not come with logical arguments on this unless I do some of my own research.

On the lighter side - Keeping aside BKs for a moment, I have heard since childhood the phrase "Ma ke haath ka khaana" (Food prepared by Mother's hand) to be different but never heard "uncle John ka ugaya hua apple" (Apple grown by Farmer uncle John) sweeter than "Uncle Tom's"! I hope you are not suggesting all the BKs should become farmers and start growing their own vegetables and Fruits ;) LoL
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ex-l

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

Qualify and quantifying are is the job of scientists. It's a wonder, for all the attention the BKs give this issue, that they have not proven it ... or proven how just much of an effect they have.

For example, it you have a very stupid and mean BK ... is their food really better than a highly intelligent and kind non-BK?

And what can "BK vibrations" overcome? For example, I was surprise when I heard Jayanti Kripalani drank airport coffee, presumably to keep her awake. On one hand, can BK vibrations overcome the effects of caffeine? (Of course not); on the other hand, why did she need coffee rather than more Yoga? (I notice coffee has pronounced effects on mood and I have seen a BK's personality change even when they stopped drinking tea).

Therefore, we can assume coffee is more powerful than BK Raja Yoga!

I heard that originally coffee ... WHICH IS NOT SATVIC ... and even tea were originally off the menu for BK fur there was so much reaction from BK that their Baba had to allow it.

A long time ago, I came to the conclusion BK foods issues were more about controlling who BKs ate with, rather than what they ate. If you can split someone off from eating with others, you remove a large part of the time they spend with those others ... and it's a terrible slap back in the face of the mothers and grandmothers who gave them milk and fed them through childhood ... to say to your own mother and grandmother, "you are no longer good enough" and yet accept food from some BK stranger.

Until the actual nature and degree of effect has been proven, the whole thing is just about that ... separation and control.

because.parmeshwar

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

The BKs Shrimat regarding food is also changing with time as their other philosophy and teachings. The guidance depends upon the individual's mind set. If i ask 3 different teachers, they will give 3 different shrimats regarding food issue. When i was BK, i asked this to my teacher, that when i go out , how would i manage with food?
one told me to take fruits only or if possible go to BK centre and take food from there (for that i need to take letter from my BK centre). The other one told me that you can have cooked food if any unmarried girl is cooking it for you even if she is non BK, one said - you can have bread and sandwiches.

Actually it is all mind game. if you doing BK meditation, your mind is set to refuse the food cooked by non-bks so that you are bound to be in their circle and gradually you cut off the outer world, because food plays important role to stay social which BKs do not like.

I heard that in the beginning of Yagya they were telling followers to eat only white coloured food like rice, milk, curd, rice chappati, banana, etc as white is sign of purity and colourful things are attracting senses. I am not sure about it though.

moreclearnow

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

For example, it you have a very stupid and mean BK ... is their food really better than a highly intelligent and kind non-BK?

I don't think so.
and it's a terrible slap back in the face of the mothers and grandmothers who gave them milk and fed them through childhood

In all my experience and association with BKs, no one recommended this as part of Shrimat and eating food from your parents was always allowed. I remember classes from Dadis in Madhuban where this question was often asked and everytime the response was you should eat food prepared by mother (of course taking care of vegetarian etc). If I now recollect, the practices of some of the BKs that were considered to be very strict about the rules, they were also fine to eat food prepared by their parents.
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ex-l

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Re: BK hypocrisies and paradoxes: Food issues

Post11 Jun 2013

Well, my experience with the same Seniors was that Shrimat was Shrimat and it meant no food prepared by shudras ... and that for surrendered Sisters, it was even more strict. I've seen situations were they would not eat food cooked by a BK who was not a full BK.

Show us moreclearernow. Show us a class or instructions. It's certainly the foundation on which the BKWSU was built and is still largely run. If they changed it, and for whom, show us when.
Brahma Kumaris: Conquering A Callous World with Purity. Hinduism Today.

"The most strict will not eat food which is not prepared by a BK. While traveling they abstain from public fard and carry their own utensils for cooking."

What if, for example, one's mother is stupid, mean and deeply attached ... but the woman in the local restaurant is detached, loving and bright? Don't worry, it's a theoretical question that does not need answered. I am just underlining how vague the principle is ... and that it is really nothing to do with the quality of vibrations but more about social control and upholding the appearance of religiosity.

The attitude of separation between a BK and its poor, deluded, ignorant, and Maya filled, Shudra "lokik" parents goes far further than just food. In my day, it would even go to not accepting gifts, and definitely hugs and affection. Having to spend time with "the lokiks" was almost something painful ... condescending service that dragged one away from one's real and spiritual family (alokiks), working for the BKWSU. It was something of a punishment and an embarrassment.

The Seniors taught "yutis" (tricks) about how to get around things and related to food, they might say things like, only eat fruits and salads ... things which not too many vibrations could be put into. BKs would, of course, stare at their food intently to purifying it (dhristi) and a spectrum of compromises existed for difficult situations ... but Shrimat remained Shrimat and eating anything that was not made by a BK was approached like eating something that might be poisoned.

Was this class a class for pukka BKs or demi-BKs? Please be more specific.

For me, when I use the term Brahma Kumaris, I mean the leadership or core not the followers who go all the way from pukka servants to lay followers these days. For example, I would not consider general advice to lay followers of the BKs to be pure BKism.

It would help, therefore, if the BKs would publish their code in public so that all could read it and every BK be on the same level.

It would also be good if they could do some science on it all.

In my opinion, it's not about the vibrations. It's about exercising control over their adherents and separating them from other sources of influence that might challenge the Brahma Kumari control ... and, hence, threaten their livelihood and income.
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