Patzcuaro: Money and the BKWSU

II was never, never, asked or even suggested to give any money, land or free labour.

This is hard to believe, unless you remained on the fringe.

I have been around for 30 years and every Center I ever visited, whether in Asia, Europe or America had at least one donation box well in sight, if not many. In my opinion, this in itself is an invitation to donate, even if it has not been suggested or asked verbally.

30 years ago it was mostly unheard of but it has become common in many places for BK to solicit voluntary contributions from participants in their public programs. The following is a cut and paste from a local BK Center flier:

All programs are made possible by the generosity of the participants. Tax receipts are provided.

I admit that this is not aggressive money grabbing but it is solicitation nevertheless. That is the public face of the BKWSU.

On the other hand, those who become regular morning students are regularly exposed to demands, whether directly from the daily Murlis in which the God of the BKs instructs the adherents to give their body, mind and wealth, whether it is from classes from the senior teachers in which adherents are reminded of the same and told that doing so is the most elevated service that will bring them the most elevated reward in their future births, whether it is by being approached for various services like fixing something, taking someone somewhere, cleaning the Center, buying food, flowers, furniture, etc, etc, etc.

We were instructed on how much to give when visiting the headquarters in Madhuban or participating in retreats at BK locations. I know residents of BK retreat centers who, on top of providing full time free labor were required to donate a significant chunk of their retirement income. We were also regularly being asked to donate for some special program, service project, to support Global Cooperation House, Peace Village or some place in India, some construction project somewhere, etc.

I dare to say that if you've never been exposed to that you must have remained on the fringe or you were living in your imagination.

Some, like me, did not need to be asked but saw it is their duty to give for the good cause. During my 22 years as an active BK I never saved a penny for myself but donated over $20,000 and around 35,000 hours of free labor to the BKs. Had I known then what I now know that we were being deceived into believing that it was God's work...

Patzcuaro,

I am trying to understand what you are saying. Please answer the simple question I asked above ...

As I asked, when you say "in silence", do you mean mentally connected with the god of the BKs?

I was never, never, asked or even suggested to give any money, land or free labour.

Perhaps you were known to be a poor and so they knew it was pointless to ask you for money personally ... but did you never do service? Please appreciate, the Indians are also treated differently.

Perhaps you have never stood in Madhuban and watched the 100s (1,000s actually) of young girls cue up to "ceremonially" hand over their money to the Sindhi Dadis.

Young girls who had to

a) hand over their dowries to join,
b) pay to be trained for 6 months, and
c) will live a life of bonded slavery to the BKWSU unable to leave.

Perhaps you never head of the villagers being pushed to donate their gold and jewellery?

For the most part the demands can be quite subtle because the Hindis are culturally trained to donate to their temples/religions and the Brahma Kumaris have just tapped into that "sanskar" (tendency) but the hints are quite clear. For example, they say as Om Radhe brought no money to the Om Mandli in her previous life (man, tan and dan), she had to reincarnate to do "service by money" in this one to do so. Personally, I remember them well when big service programmes arose, or mortgages on centers had to be paid.

I was told to consider "my wallet" as "Baba's wallet".

Religion is highly 'transactional' in India. Indians give God cash and anticipate a reward in return ... or a karmic cleansing if the money is 'dirty', e.g. dodgy or impure business, tax not paid etc. In the rest of the world, such a transaction would be called a "bribe".

In the BKWSU, in true bazaar-stall style, there are also "special karmic offers" like donating cash-cash to Dadi Janki, or giving it directly to Madhuban, which are superstitiously encouraged as they are said to be more powerful or valuable.

The tradition of giving gold, jewellery and diamonds to temples is also traditional in India and, as with the temples, the BKWSU keeps it in vaults too. It is made into exclusive gifts for VIPs, not sold to feed the poor or build schools etc.

Please check and correct me if I am wrong.

It is argued that because Indians believe God accepts money for his favours, then there is nothing is wrong in them doing the same thing. It is habitualised behaviour and morally accommodated which has led to a culture of corruption.

In addition, if you knew anything of the inner circle of the BKs, you would know about the power of being a "money earner" for them. They are quite capable of asking directly and making accommodations in the rules to accept wealth and the wealthy.

It is clear, by reading your posts, that there are different ways of practicing/interpreting BK rules.

I was definetely not in the fringe, I was part of the core. I stayed months in Madhuban during Gyan Sarovar´s construction. I was not considered poor either because I am an architect and by then I had a fairly relaxed economical situation.

I not only was very deep into BK´s administration methodologies. I actually opened a small centre, and you should know it, it is not easy to do so because there are dozens of conditions for it.

And let me repeat it. I was never, never asked yo give a single cent, and let me confess that I never did. I did buy a few books. But also I did not receive, during the years of my small centre, one penny from any of the people assiting to meditation or courses.

I agree with you that is always told very clearly that BK is sustained by donations, and it seems that to many people this act of donation fit´s them because there are actually hundreds of donators, but is absolutely false to say that you are pushed to give any money.

I agree with you that is always told very clearly that BK is sustained by donations, and it seems that to many people this act of donation fit´s them because there are actually hundreds of donators, but is absolutely false to say that you are pushed to give any money.

In my experience as well Patzcuaro, I haven't seen BKs PUSHING for money and it's a clearly known principle of BKWSU that it is run by voluntary contribution, so what's wrong with it !! If someone volunteers - it's a choice made by the individuals on what and when they want to donate!

I have never been personally asked to give money. I could not anyway have donated more than I already was. But we were often COLLECTIVELY asked to contribute. I heard it from Dadi Janki, from regional coordinators, national coordinators, local coordinators, retreat centres coordinators, in newsletters from Madhuban ...

Maybe I should not say "asked" and rather say that we were "invited" or "offered" to contribute, as it was drilled into us that it was only for our own karmic benefit, but it was insistent and persuasive, not to mention when we were outright instructed on how much to donate to Madhuban, etc. And I am not getting into the requests for all sorts of services.

But, you are right, we were not coerced.

I am sorry Patzcuaro, I did not want to be disrespectful. I was just incredulous that you would have been immersed in it for many years and not been aware of any of that.

Congratulations for running a center and never taking a penny for it. That is uncommon. But where did the money come from to pay for the rent and the upkeep of the Centre?

I haven't seen BKs PUSHING for money and it's a clearly known principle of BKWSU that it is run by voluntary contribution, so what's wrong with it ...

You're moving the goal posts to emphasise "pushing" ... however, I would say it is done more coercively in India and amongst the Hindi community. Ye, in general, it is done in a very royal way that flatters their sponsors ... but there is also an amount of "horse-trading" too, e.g. donations getting better seats, preferable treatment and time on the stage with BapDada etc.

What is wrong with it? Here are a few reasons, please think about them and add your own.

The BKWSU is a kind of unsustainable pyramid or Ponzi scheme which sells false hopes and superstitious magic (karmic cleansing) for money.

When Lekhraj Kirpalani's and the inner circle's money ran, they had to turn their religion into a business to feed and house themselves because they had no education, no other source of income and their God's predictions of the End of the World failed them.

Let's estimate; to afford one BK, you need 20 adherents; to afford 20 BKs, you need 400 adherents; to afford 400 BKs, you need 8,000 adherents, add property, vehicles, international air travel, an bureaucracy to manage it all, and it starts to expand ... how is that being funded, and what is it all for?

If it was just a democratically run cooperative of nice people wanting to live in peace villages, then there would not be any problem at all of it pooling money to achieve its ends. Unfortunately, in the case of the BKWSU ... it is not. It's an End of the World cult ... with political ambitions.

If newcomers are encouraged to donate money to the BKWSU (with its central 'End of the World' credo) and not tell them about the previous failed predictions ... it is deeply unethical.

If individuals are encouraged to donate money under the undue influence of magical or superstitious influences ... it is deeply unethical.

If individuals are being encouraged to give over their lives and wealthy without any contingency plan for their old age and retirement ... it is deeply unethical.

If there is little democracy and no open accounting ... it is deeply unethical.

If newcomers are encouraged to donate money on the basis of a false history ... it is at least cheap if not a little unethical.

To entrap young women for life as unpaid servants without any way out ... IS SLAVERY.

Correct me if I am wrong.

We can then look at how people are encouraged to turn their houses into business fronts for the BKWSU and financially support them and made to feel special because of it ... if they are not informed of all of the above, it is deeply unethical.

I would question *any* money taken during the "Honeymoon Period" or "intoxication phase" as people are genuinely out of their minds at that time. They're high, or like drunks.

If the BKs were to spend their money on helping others and genuinely uplifting society in a practical manner ... then it would be admiral. But they don't. They take the money to look after themselves and to afford their political lobbying and PR. They have perverted the word "service" using it to mean political lobbying and PR on a local to national level.

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No, you are right on the unethical assumptions if you were refering to 6 year old children or animals, but it happens that you are talking about adult, mature and civilized human beings from all over the world. Or maybe you are against the donation system in general. But this system works in every country or culture for art, sanitary, emergencies or cooperation, etc, etc, etc... programs.

What's the difference?

As I said before I was never asked for any money and I did not give a single cent for 7 years and I got back an inmense amount of knowledge and experience. I paid buying some books.

Patzcuaro

You are going to enter "Guiness"book of records for being the first and only BK member, who did not pay a single cent to the cult for 7 years ... congratulation ..!

I actually know a few that never payed anything, but in parallel I know many that did give, always without being asked. It is a matter of balance, and the system works, especially because each one feel fine with what they give and what they get back, and I am talking about a sample of maybe 300 BK that I had enough close contact with during those 7 years.

Also without being asked I opened part of my house as a small meditation centre where lot's of people attended meditation and courses, and they never paid a single cent, but I got back great moments of sharing with others. Maybe that is the way I payed back. Again is a matter of balance.

But I also understand that there could be cases where you feel you gave more than you received but that is a very personal question that should never be generalized.

however, I would say it is done more coercively in India and amongst the Hindi community.

ex-l, you can go on and on with it and assuming you were more of a Western BK, how many centres in India were you really involved with closely to make such generalizations? You can go on and on with it but I am now getting this impression even more that you are trying to prove something that is not still clear as you keep generalizing your own experiences across the whole institute which is not true. Another example is the generalization that everything that BKWSU does is unethical whilst there are thousands who can narrate their stories of how much gratitude that have for BKs to turn around their lives and given them serenity, peace and bliss unparalleled - you will not believe this of course. I have many surrendered BKs as close friends whom you call slaves but for them its surrender to the cause they firmly believe in and they are proud of their choices.

I was very closely involved with many small centres to big retreat centres in India and the donation system pretty much works the same. In fact, unlike Western world, in India a very large number of BKs come from humble backgrounds and I have seen how even small centres in the most rural parts of India were able to sustain themselves with the same system - some contribute more, some less and some nothing but I have seen it happening by choice and not through coercion.

Patzcuaro

You are going to enter "Guiness"book of records for being the first and only BK member, who did not pay a single cent to the cult for 7 years ... congratulation ..!

Lots of laughs ... thank you for that. But it's not true. The BKs deal not just in money and jewellery but also indirect 'financial equivalents' which cost other people money. Therefore they can say something like, "I never gave a cent" but when you look closer, it is not true.

It's the principle called 'culpable deniability' or 'plausible deniability' which allows them to tell convincing half-truths.

Plausible deniability means the withholding of information in order to hide illegal or unpopular activities and protect senior figures from accusations or even legal ramifications. The BKs operate behind webs of such stuff.

Try asking them for global or even Indian accounts and they will say, "we are a family, families don't keep accounts?". True ... neither do mafias.

No, you are right on the unethical assumptions if you were refering to 6 year old children or animals, but it happens that you are talking about adult, mature and civilized human beings from all over the world. Or maybe you are against the donation system in general.

I am very much in favour in charitable giving where it goes to practical benefits for others or benefits those less privileged or able than oneself, e.g. children, animals, the environment etc.

I am very much against supporting religious parasites and parasitical religious organizations.

Incidentally, there is a strong argument to suggest that the setting up of a parasitical religious organizations is against the original teachings of the Sakar Murlis and so on.

As I said before I was never asked for any money and I did not give a single cent for 7 years and I got back an inmense amount of knowledge and experience. I paid buying some books.

By giving over part of home, you gave a financial equivalent. Presumably you paid the lighting, heating, catering, publishing costs related to it? That is also "money" and how the BKs work (and avoid paying rent and taxes etc) ... you were "earning your own fortune" for the Golden Age by opening up a Gitapathsala, just like it says in the Murlis surely?

Were you working in Madhuban or just holidaying? I understand an increasing number of Western BKs are also approaching retirement, or semi-retirement and spending it on the BKs but in my time 'holidaying' was not sanctioned and BKs were always encouraged to work.

I have many surrendered BKs as close friends whom you call slaves but for them its surrender to the cause they firmly believe in and they are proud of their choices.

Are we talking about the young sevadharis in India forced to give over their dowries here?

I suppose versus the virtual rape of arranged marriages, becoming a BK might be a preferable option. I know that I would rather not have sex than be forced to have sex with someone I don't love.

But the entire BK system only works *if* you buy into the End of the World scenario.

It's not about "love and light", that's just the sales pitch. It's about "earning your fortune" for the forthcoming Golden Age *after* Destruction.

The core of institute is rotten. You would not recommend eating poison just because it was sugar-coated and professionally packaged would you? You're pushing the facade, the packaging ... I am questioning the core contents.

... I have seen it happening by choice and not through coercion.

We keep receiving reports from all over the world from people complaining about the BKs and money. To many to list here. Not just stealing money from other families but stealing the time and energy of family members from their own families and communities.

You say, its their "choice" ... but it is not an 'informed choice'. It is a 'deceive and manipulated choice'. They have been manipulated into believing what is not true is true and they are giving on that basis; e.g. that the god of the BKWSU is God, that the world is going to end, that by giving time and money to the Brahma Kumaris they will get a high status in the Golden Age, or will wash away their bad karmas and so on. The BKs are largely just exploiting Hindu religious sanskars, there's nothing remarkable about most of it. They're just tapping into a deep already mentally conditioned vein.

Until the Brahma Kumaris stop deceiving and manipulating people, their activities will always be ... deeply unethical.

And they will have no defence against critics like me ... because it is true.

Until the Brahma Kumaris hold their hands up and say ...

"We lied to you ... we hid the truth from you ... we falsified our history ... we re-wrote failed prediction ... our god spirit is not the God of all religions"

they will never have any defence.

Fall for the "love and light" salespitch if you want ... a good hypnotist who will give you that without taking away your life ... but 99% the Brahma Kumaris are just some low caste Indians re-inventing or imaging themselves as high caste Brahmins using the devices of religion to do so ... and sadly Brahmanism has largely been parastical of the rest of Indians to their detriment. See: Brahmanism And Mental Blocks of Hindus.

These your opinions ex-l - I am afraid these can not be proclaimed as the "truth" at least to me.

Actually, my reply starts with a question which you leave unanswered (... like so many of my questions). Are you saying that BKism does not include an "End of the World" scenario (at least for the 7 billion and most continents)?

Your 'power of silence' speaks louder than your words ... but it's not divine because divinity would be able to admit where there is truth.

Divinity would have to ... it could not help doing so ...

I apologise for being tough on you but, "lied ... hid ... falsified ... re-wrote ... and failed" are also absolutely and objectively true. Pick any one of them ... or perhaps truth doesn't matter any more and Baba has become the 'Ocean of Subjective Opinions' instead.

There's really is no defence against such accusations ... and it's still going on despite our own and the PBKs' best efforts to reform the movement.

Cue Shakespearean aside to the global audience:

"Methinks ...
Somewhere down the ages
the BKs hath confuseth,
the meaning of 'soul'
and 'in silence'

... with 'insolence'."