Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

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ex.brahma

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Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post19 Jan 2013

Empress_Kirpalani.jpg
God, I 'm bored and wish this was all over ... when will Destruction come?
Empress_Kirpalani.jpg (90.31 KiB) Viewed 7139 times

Initially, I thought it was an attempt to ridicule "Janki Kirpalani", The supreme Head of The Brahma Kumaris, by using photoshop technique and make her look in that ridiculous form and shape !

After close technical examination, the answer was negative. No photoshop was carried out on the photo !

Why on Earth would any sane "soul" does this to him/her self, especially at that age ..??!!
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ex-l

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Re: Happy January the 18th

Post19 Jan 2013

Correct, it was supplied by a Brahma Kumari supporter.

Perhaps Janki is just as sick and tired of being worshipped as she looks in the photo. Or perhaps she is finally starting to go senile, which will probably happen as it did to other Dadis.

Recently, they gave to her, "The Biggest Trophy in the World" accord to the Limca Book of Records (Limca is Coca-Cola's most famous brand of soft drink in India, so it must be true). The book is a cheap copy of the Guinness World Records idea for Indians.

I mean, hold on ... how many times in one person's life can they be celebrated and for what, and is this really a "trophy"? Their ridiculous for worshipping their Dadis and ridiculous for the amount of self-promotion they do rather than genuine charity.

Is it not just a bad statue or a marketing device (prop)?

All this Dadi worship is completely against their original teachings ... but in a way, she started it by instituting the habit of pictures of her beloved Lekhraj Kirpalani when she left to go to the West. Lekhraj Kirpalani also said in the Sakar Murlis that no one should keep pictures of him or remember anyone.

In the beginning, even the BKs' religion was very simple and pure. Look at it now.

Biggest-Trophy-Gifted-To-Dadi-Janki-ji-on-her-97th-Birthday1.jpg
The Biggest Trophy in the World

Patzcuaro

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Re: Happy January the 18th

Post19 Jan 2013

Ex- I:

Again you are missing the point

But I'll try to explain why by just asking you a simple question:

Do you know why gifts are always wraped with bright colour paper, adorns or decoration elements?

It is for you to have a good time on your way to the essence, to the real gift.

If you continue to make literal lectures to everything coming from deeply colourfull, keleidoscopic, brilliant and bright cultures as India you will continue missing the essence of the gift.

Go deeper, tell me about your personal experience with Dadi Janki, did you talk to her? If you did I do not understand why you are talking about her dress or her crown, because anyone that I know that has shared a simple chat with her, and I did it many times in Madhuban, has a sweet and powerful memory of the moment.

Love
Patzcuaro

ex.brahma

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Re: Happy January the 18th

Post19 Jan 2013

Janki, to those who do not know her, she does not speak English at all. For major events and whenever Jayanti is around she translates Janki’s words into English, with a lot of Photoshop (editing), which can easily be noticed from the long pauses Jayanti takes.

Janki keeps repeating the same phrases and sentences over and over, may be for the last fifty or sixty years, as she has nothing new to say; or may be incapable of coming up with new ideas and thoughts. Her level of intellect is quite low. She repeats the word "Angels", which she is very fond of or pretend to be so many times, may be every five minutes or so to give the impression of divine spirit.

She never impressed me, neither as a human being nor as a cult leader and I, personally, believe that she is there only because she is the oldest survivor of the Kripalani gang ..!!

Patzcuaro

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Re: Happy January the 18th

Post19 Jan 2013

ex.Brahma wrote:Janki, Her level of intellect is quite low.

Now I understand. It is an intellectual problem.

So you happen to have the chance to travel to India and get to know one of the most ancient cultures, Known for it's spiritual contribution to many religions, creeds and doctrines and meet one of the most experienced yogis in the country, and the conclusion of your encounter with Dadi Janki is that her intelect is very low?

Well, now I understand your delusion. You went there as many of Westerners do, asking for answers, solutions and signs but without changing the occidental attitude of naturally putting expectations between you and everything infront of you.

You went there as a tourist, with your camera and your intellect as your most precious belongings and, as expected, you missed a fantastic opportunity to be hit by everything around you, because in that part of the world the messages are far way more subtle than they are here.

But, please, do not take this as personal, it happens all the time to most of us, expectations are one of the clearest obstacles for westerners. An exercise of humility is strictly needed.

And here I remember the answer that Indira Gandhi gave to a foreign reporter when he asked her, "Being such a powerful spiritual country, why has India not been able to overcome it's almost primitive life condition?" She only said "Today's India's seeming lack of sophistication is the result of centuries of spiritual evolution".

She was absolutely right, but it takes a non-occidental humble attitude to really understand her words. It took me a while but it is possible.

Love Patzcuaro
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ex-l

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Re: Happy January the 18th

Post19 Jan 2013

Patzcuaro wrote:Again you are missing the point. But I'll try to explain why by just asking you a simple question:

Do you know why gifts are always wraped with bright colour paper, adorns or decoration elements?

Because the packing industry has convinced us to do so in order to keep them in business ... a bit like the BKWSU, really.

Patzcuaro, you're insulting people with your silly caca again. You've obviously got your head still stuck in BK mode and are here as an apologist for them. You're an trained architect, be honest, that is one ugly and useless object worth nothing more than its scrap metal value. In a country where 3,000 children die each day for lack of food, to waste money on stuff like that is obscene.

I am sorry but it's you who has not just the intellectual problem but also a problem with a lack of ethics. I've experienced this before with BKs and BK apologists, they are literally upside down and back to front. BKism does that to people.

The only way the BKs would gain my respect would be if they were to spend their donations on building modern public latrines and liberating untouchable women and girls from virtual slavery as human waste disposal devices, or something equally practical.

Janki and the Brahma Kumaris have very little real respect outside of their own imagination. I doubt she's even a "yogi". I'd say she was more of a psychic channeller or medium, like the other Dadis, but only channeling the energy rather than full possessions. As for your mythic India, India is the repressed mess it is today because of
    a) its suppressive Brahmin caste religion, and its corrupt class and politicians who have siphoned off its wealthy,
    b) the exploitation of numerous colonial powers which robbed it of both its intellectual and physical wealth.
ex.Brahma wrote:For major events, and whenever Jayanti is around, she translates Janki’s words into English with a lot of Photoshop (editing), which can easily be noticed from the long pauses Jayanti takes.

Her level of intellect is quite low ... I, personally, believe that she is there only because she is the oldest survivor of the Kripalani gang ..!!

Funnily enough, I have never met or spoken to 'ex.Brahma'. I do not know where they are from or what their BK experience was ... but my answer was going to be almost exactly the same.

There are two Jankis.
    a) One filtered though and polished by Jayanti Kripalani (who is looking to take her seat when she dies).
    b) The one Indians see. And it's not very high class.
Like ex.Brahma, I tried but I never fell for all the Janki Bhakti some went into and, as you say, never found her to be that intellectually strong or honest either. She could be very manipulative or controlling.

Ecclesiastically, there is a big problem with her rule because she was the one who broke the "no pictures" Shrimat and brought about all this Lekhraj Kirpalani and Dadi worship that goes on in the BKWSU today ... the body-conscious sanctification of their gurus. She was the one who demanded to take a trance light with her when she went to London.

If you asked something she did not know, she could become quite irritated. Others have reported her emotionally instabilities on this forum, from either anger or tears. How on earth could one believe she is "one of the 8" top souls in the world?

Of course, she is a charismatic old lady, and a good actress, and her value to the BKWSU goes beyond just being one of the last of the Kripalani Klan but also being a good money maker for the organization in her own right. She knows how to ask and play the Hindi-wallahs.

Many of the Sisters lived in fear of all the myths and legends circulating around her, like she could see inside people's soul, she travelled around the world in her subtle body sneaking in on centers to see who was awake for Amrit Vela every morning, and all that kind of stuff. We've discussed some of her other eccentricities elsewhere on this forum.

To the children and young adolescents in India she is preaching a "don't think, don't question" religion and demanding an impossible purity of mind, e.g. even watching their dreams for sexual or sensual thoughts and confessing them. It's a sort of medieval religion and not right for children. Pure cult control.

Increasingly as she dwindles, I think she is just becoming a puppet to the puppet masters behind her. Jayanti included.

ex.brahma

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post20 Jan 2013

patzuaro

I think you are mixing things up, and also making up stories ..!!

Firstly, not every thing grown or came to existance in India is sacred or of divine value..!!

There are also charlatans, crooks and pretenders who for financial and profit reasons try to sell themselves as gods or god representatives on Earth ..!

Victims are mainly the naives who would take them seriously, follow them and give them all what they are asked to give, money and other ... There are many examples of this type of charlatans in India, who accumulated fortunes. One of them has built a temple for himself with a pure gold facade and a throne.

Secondly, I do not recall mentioning any where that I am a Western tourist who would carry his camera and show off his "extraordinary" intellect. None of these descriptions are correct ..!

I met Janki in Mount Abu and in retreats outside India. What I wrote above was the conclusions of what I saw, heard, as well as face to face encounter with Janki.

During one of these occasions, I bought a book supposedly written by Janki and titled, "Is There Another Way?". I read a few pages, smiled and whispered, "Yes, There is a Better Way ....and that Is Outside The Brahma Kumaris" ...!!
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howiemac

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post20 Jan 2013

patzuero wrote:Go deeper, tell me about your personal experience with Dadi Janki, did you talk to her? If you did I do not understand why you are talking about her dress or her crown, because anyone that I know that has shared a simple chat with her, and I did it many times in Madhuban, has a sweet and powerful memory of the moment.

Patzuero, I am now understanding clearly why ex-l has been getting so tough with you recently. Normally I don't descend to personal attacks but in Janki's case, and now in yours - you BK apologist - I will do so. You keep posting utter drivel. If I was in charge of this forum you would be banned by now, but the administrator here has been always very lenient in that respect. I guess he likes to give people enough rope to hang themselves.

Your BK experience was clearly very shallow indeed, and yet you post as if you had some deep insight. And you keep banging on with your nonsense. Please go away and bug some other forum with your delusions.

Those of us who got to know Janki saw the dark side of her also - personally, I detest and despise her for what she has become, which is, in my view, a monster. My feelings on this are strong because she is such a hypocrite, and she is in charge of the BKWSU, which has become monstrous in her image. Brahma Baba was my spiritual guide, and I still have a lot of respect and affection for him, despite his many obvious flaws and mistakes (we are all, every one of us, flawed, one way or another), and I do not like to see how his teachings have been bastardized and cast aside by Janki (eg the Brahma Baba photos everywhere, the Dadi worship, etcetera). BapDada just sits in the Subtle Regions and laughs at the "games of the children", but those of us down here in "hell" find ourselves repelled (by revulsion) from our "spiritual family", or else manipulated and abused, and Janki is the prime mover in this, and certainly, as boss, is responsible for the unspiritual mess that the BKWSU is now in.

Also, if you think that the celebration of tat in a grandiose fashion, with a miserable face, has got anything to do with self transformation, or a yoga-based spiritual path or, in fact, the teachings of BapDada, then you are not even a beginner.

Indian culture is not a valid excuse for their behaviour. They preach becoming angelic, going beyond national cultures. As ever they do not practice what they preach.
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Mr Green

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post20 Jan 2013

I knew her very well, she is a powerful person, full of love and anger hypocrisy and lies, just like everyone else.

But, unlike many, she had an unhealthy obsession with accumulating money.

Patzcuaro

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post20 Jan 2013

One of the most valuable lessons I've got from Dadi Janki, more than 20 years ago, is that "to be a real yogi means to be able to bring to the scene what is missing on it".

And I have the feeling that many of the posters of this blog are gloating over their bad experiences in BK without making a real analysis of all that positive things that it gave them back.

I just can not believe that these experience were so bad that you cannot say even one positive thing about your experience on BK and you keep destroying yourselves by trying to destroy someone else.

And, as an exercise of this and as an ex-BK, thinking specially on what Dadi Yanki taught me, I'll say that there are a few things about the way BK is spreading it teachings in Western countries that I do not agree on:
    -In Western countries the concept of the Supreme Soul should not be given in the "Positive Thinking Course". Because it is not important when you are so away from your own divine essence. "God's experience comes always and only after self's divine and eternal consciousness".

    - The "End of the world" concept should be clearly stated as a "symbol" of its real meaning, which is "the present historical moment of world's transformation". Any other interpretation is usless.

    - The idea of Gulzar Dadi as "a medium" should be kept as a local (Indian) tradition, because that is what it is, no more no less.
These three concepts should be treated in a different way, specially because it has been proven that, for westerners, they can turn into obstacles for experiencing the really important BKs' contribution to the world, which has also been proved to be immense, and I'll be always be grateful for.

So, my personal conclusion is that if they get to address these three concepts in the right way, with all their implications, then the BK would be entitled to be one of the leading ideologies on self-transformation in the actual world.

Well, now that I have stated things that I consider should be changed, and the way to change them, I hope I can get to see from you some of the positive things you got at BK, otherwise this blog does not make sense at all.

Love
Patzcuaro
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ex-l

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post20 Jan 2013

One question, are you going as far to say that you do not believe God is entering Gulzar?

(That would suggest your concept of god has changed a little since you left the BKWSU, any response to this on the other god related topic, please).

BTW, I think this is a "discussion forum" rather than a blog. Basically everyone posts on an equal basis and anyone can start a topic if they want.

Dadi-Janki-A-la-Une-688x230.jpg
"Hindi Wallahs? First I grab their wallet, and then I hold onto like this, and I never let go ...".

I missed this one, there's even a 'Dadi Janki Film' now with its own website made by long time BK adherent, Marie Edery. Of course, the site does not say she is a BK. It uses a typical BK disguise ... "inspired by her interest for universal values".

Her other BK related works such as, 'Remember', 'Just a minute', 'Tao of the Traveller', 'Beyond Words' etc and Soulstory.fr, again not clearly BK labelled. Oh, did not the BKs get into trouble with the French government for trying to indoctrinate children. I guess they have gone undercover a little, peut-être?

A clip of Dadi Bhakti by Marie is here or here. It is sold through BKWSU France's shop Editions Aravali, here for 10 Euros ... so you have to pay, and they profit, for your Bhakti these days.

"The best kept secret in the world", they say ... "she is the one who will tell you what is true about you". Remember the days when everything in the BK was free and it was not a business?

Of course, as usual, they don't make it clear to the audience that all the people saying so are long-term BK Dadi bhagats, or indebted to the BKWSU for their daily livelihood. It also makes the usual false and incomplete claims about her "spiritual apprenticeship" and involvement in the Om Mandli.

bkti-pit

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post20 Jan 2013

I never understood why so many BKs seemed to enjoy that kind of celebration. I found it fake and tacky and that it was a waste of my time, not to mention that it was a terrible waste of resources.

Dadi Janki never impressed me much. I had a few nice experiences with her but so did I with many "nobodies". I saw her getting angry, being manipulative and controlling, deceptive, unfair, biased, arrogant, uncaring, none of which were inspiring. I also found that the energy surrounding her was pretty restless. Mostly she was a boring speaker to me.
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howiemac

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post20 Jan 2013

bkti-pit wrote:I never understood why so many BKs seemed to enjoy that kind of celebration. I found it fake and tacky and that it was a waste of my time, not to mention that it was a terrible waste of resources.

Dadi Janki never impressed me much. I had a few nice experiences with her but so did I with many "nobodies". I saw her getting angry, being manipulative and controlling, deceptive, unfair, biased, arrogant, uncaring, none of which were inspiring. I also found that the energy surrounding her was pretty restless. Mostly she was a boring speaker to me.

Spot on :-).

(Mr Green too)
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ex-l

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post21 Jan 2013

bkti-pit wrote:I never understood why so many BKs seemed to enjoy that kind of celebration. I found it fake and tacky and that it was a waste of my time, not to mention that it was a terrible waste of resources.

08-- 200 copy.jpg
"Oo-er Baba ... You've got a big one. We've polished it and now it's spraying everywhere".

And then there is the tidying up afterwards ...

Dr Freud would have a field day interpreting this party ... and you'd have to be a virgin to do it without thinking the obvious about all that pumping and spraying. Look at Big Mohini cringing.

I suppose to begin with the parties are sort of quaint and cute and, like going to a party at an old folks home, you don't want to be heartless and spoil their fun ... but it wears off quickly and either you accept it and conform for the sake of a free meal and some dhristi from a Dadi, or you leave.

I don't know how things are now, it's a long time since I left but I suspect it is still the same in India and where Indians dominate. In the West, there used to be more elegant "closed door" VIP dinner parties but the ordinary rank and file BKs never got invited to them.

In my time, self and social expression was very limited and there were very few activities that were considered "safe" and acceptable, and they were basically all two dimensional. Dadis on the throne, everyone else sitting watching them, then a little bit of light entertainment from the stage which we usually tried to subvert.

It was all very, very, very uncool and very, very, very inelegant. I would go as far as to say primitive. I suppose you could enjoy it in an anthropological kind of way, and all the old ladies except for the BK royalty were very sweet and loving, but I cant say I enjoyed it or it was what I aspired to.

At the time I accepted it as I thought multiculturalism and putting women first was a good thing ... but then I realised it was not going to change, or change so slowly and *against* the will of Dadi Janki. Janki cannot take credit for all the good changes in the Western BKWSU, many of them happened around and despite her. I think Jayanti often had hard time with her.

Mr Green, you might know more about that having been a surrendered soul.
    Jayanti often spoke of "having to show respect to the Seniors". Did Janki demand that respect? It's ridiculous to think we actually accepted all her decision making were "equal to god's" (Shrimat).
In my time, I think Dadi Janki just wanted everything to be the same as it was, and I am not convinced that she had much imagination. Her way was the old way and the BK way. I think any developments had to happen quite slowly around her and with a lot of work ... and they happened mostly far away from her direct influence, like in Australia or Europe, not London.

I am really just thinking out loud here. I left around the time when she wanted the whole Western BK world to go out and do "Peace Marches" like they do in India. That was all she could think of as a "Global Service" campaign and what wanted. I thought it was a terrible idea and stood against it ... and, boy, that did not go down well but it did force them to stop and think a bit and change came from elsewhere (Australia and the Million Minutes of Peace).

Most BKs veered from sucking up to her for the sake of extra Toli/Dhristi or even a hug, to be plain scared of.

I don't think Westerners fully recognised how much of a tyrant Janki was to Sisters and particularly Indian Sisters and more should be said about that. She is not really enlightened at all. I found she could be coercive and invasive at time - I could give examples - and I think, whilst giving Jayanti a very tough time too, she used Jayanti as a surgical blade to her work for her. I think we on the outside of the inner circle will only ever know a tiny fraction of all the machinations that went on and go on inside ... especially to keep the show in the West financed ... and until one does, one knows nothing of truth of the BKWSU.

For me, she will always be the BKWSU's 'bag man'... (the a person designated to collect dirty money, e.g. in a protection racket).

I am not saying she is a criminal, I know little about Indian and international tax laws, but there was always quite a bit of cash-cash being asked for, collected and moved around that ordinary BKs were always kept out of knowing about. For me, much of their religion is just con to exploit primarily Hindi Wallahs (Indians) to keep that money coming in. Even Westerners were just used, and their status exaggerated, in the old days to make them look more special, "Look, even Englishmen follow us, we must be important".

This is all that she was responsible for instituting and keeping running and so, hence, I cannot have a lot of respect.

My best memory of Dadi Janki is her lying on her back on the couch in Baba Bhavan to rest and letting out a huge, long fart. I was working doing service in a back room and I don't think she realised I was there. It was one of the best and few laughs I had in my time as a BK and remains with me to this day.

I was glad to hear that even "one of the top 8 souls in the world" had the same problem with the food as I had. It must have been a stinker.


I left and changed my diet.

ex.brahma

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Re: Janki: Biggest Trophy or Biggest Hypocrite?

Post21 Jan 2013

Looks like BK celibacy rules have been overlooked in this photo ...!!

Age is no limit to ... Fantasies ...!!
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