Marc Fourcade Alpha Point Meditation and Leadership

Moved from "Re: Brian Bacon and Kazemaru's wedding day celebrations"

Did not Marc 'marry' each of those silly BK women that believed his rubbish - like the latest!

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Who is "Marc", a BK having sexual-emotional relationships with women?

Marc Fourcade previous colleague of Brian Bacon in SML training and service and BK business wing ... and fellow of the Oxford Leadership Academy.

Marc Fourcade previous colleague of BBacon in SML training and service and BK business wing.....and fellow of the Oxford leadership academy

I see a biography here ... no mention of his Brahma Kumari involvement despite obvious BK whites and the other demi-BK or BK connection he is with.

I never knew him. Is he in or out of the BKs now? Does he involve BKism in his paid for corporate work? Did that paid for corporate work start from the BK / SML connection? Sorry to be so blunt but are you saying he also having relationships with women?

It's good for us to track all this stuff otherwise they pull the wool over the general public's eyes. It's true what you say a) some people are treated like trash, b) certain people are treated with privileges even though they don't follow the principles, and c) if you're dark skinned you're often lower down the pecking order; and if you're blonde, you're higher up.

Ooops, you've just opened by eyes and a can of worms ... for example, they selling something called Alpha Point Meditation.

Brian Bacon took back the very influential and successful from the BKs "Self Management Leadership" and here they have something called "Alpha Leadership".

Lila Carol (not her real name) certainly was a BK and although is she listed as being a "Raj Yogini" of 28 years (without any mention of it being a Brahma Kumari), she did not follow the principles.

Therefore is this the man she was with, "half-on half-off" as they say?

It looks like the Self Management Leadership boys have "self management" themselves to the choicest of Brahma Kumaris and built up their own businesses on the back of BK connections and service! I need to know more ...

Spring Consulting.

MARC FOURCADE is an engaging speaker whose passion is "Gardening Talent" as the means to turn theory into practice. He empowers top executives by unveiling and concentrating on what is essential in their professional and personal lives. He leads individuals to realize what is their ‘personal attractor’; that is, to bring them into alignment with their deepest sense of purpose and values and to clarify their personal vision. Then they can step out with confidence having reaffirmed who they are, what they are doing and where they are going.

He is an expert in Strategy, Organizational Development and Executive Coaching. The intrinsic thread to his interventions is a synthesis of advanced knowledge and best practices of the West with the noble ethos of India.

Sharing his time between India and Europe, Marc has been engaged with major Indian companies since 1991, including Reliance Infrastructure, Nagarjuna Group, Oberoi Group and a long-term intervention with Godrej & Boyce, where he facilitated wide-ranging transformational processes around talent management and culture building. His European assignments include the Bank Pictet Group, Air France-KLM, Sony Corp, GEC Alsthom, the ILO (UN), Credit Mutuel Bank, Epson Iberica and Novartis (Basel), and he was official advisor to the French Centre of Space Research in Behaviour and Quality.

Excuse me if I sniff the doggie-doo ... "1981, Marc Fourcade visits India for the first time. His early journeys are personal: to learn about India's ancient oral traditions and spirituality. Before long they become business trips".

Doesn't he mean he became a Brahma Kumari follower and then started off by doing BK service? There's nothing "ancient" about Brahma Kumarism except names they stole from another spiritual tradition.

"Lila" also became a BK follower around the same time, and later went through sh*t with the BKs. No mention of that ... she's an "emotional intelligence" diagnostic expert now. is not "emotional intelligence" BK and OLA Mike George's thing?

It's when individuals are critiqued here that I get a little wary.

I knew both Marc and Carol; both were genuine, both seeking to make their way through life, both aware of the failings of the BKWSU, looking for what they could find in its teachings that work. Carol herself went through a number of personal struggles to fit in. I hope she won and not the shoe! (Shoe-sole ... get it? Oh, well)

Marc was always a swarthy, smooth charmer whom I got on well with and so did most people, I think. Intelligent, deep thinking, friendly, a sense of history and culture ...

Carol states that she is inspired by myth and metaphor. Is that how she sees the BKs now? No more literally true than a Navaho teaching story?

Given that most here agree there's stuff in BK-isms that are wider, more universal, than the BKs themselves, but for many people they see it there in the BKs first, I have to ask - when do we appropriately tar with the same brush whatever they eventually do with what they found there, and when is it their initiative to break out of the BK mould and not discard everything worth applauding?

I suppose the question might come down to honesty and integrity? Are they closet BKs? Or are they now genuinely out of there, but hold some affiliated/parallel beliefs?

For example, I do not accept that Jesus is the only begotten son of the Jewish God who was manifest so that he could die for my sins. But I do accept much of what he taught as being superior approaches to life. That is, I am not a Christian, even if I am practically living more according to Jesus's values than many self-proclaimed church-going christians.

The broader question becomes "when does one cease being a BK?"

Does one need to repudiate particular things before one is no longer a member of the cult, and if so, what are those things? Does it need to be done publicly?

Does belonging to a non-mainstream group demand public declaration? In all circumstances?

What do you think, if you please, ex-l. I know you have considered long and hard on such questions.

It's when individuals are critiqued here that I get a little wary. I knew both Marc and Carol; both were genuine, both seeking to make their way through life, both aware of the failings of the BKWSU ...

We offer anyone turning their BK experience and connections into a money and status making exercise the full ... "Spanish Inquisition Management Leadership Assessment", or SIMLA™ for short. We hold debriefing coaching sessions at your expense ... but at our favored exotic mountain retreat!.

The $64,000 questions are ... are they 'in' or 'out', do they prop up and add value to the BK empire, are they profiting from hanging off the edges of it ... and how do they respond to the standards of truth and accuracy this website demands or apologetic are they?

Any of them clearing their consciences by coming here to confess their sins and spin the beans on BK corruption gets a generous discount of criticisms. None of them, to my knowledge, have taken up the offer. There's far more in it for them in middle class BK-style hypocrisy.

The broader question becomes "when does one cease being a BK?"

After one has finished the SIMLA™ debriefing course and our luxury mountain retreat premises ... see my secretary standing at the cash registered on the way out.

Answering seriously, I think if one has fully swallowed the potion/poison, one always remains changed by it. I am thinking of blue-throated Shankar here for anyone who knows their Hindu mythology. When one wakes up to what is going on and can no longer recommend them, perhaps?

It's as open to discussion as "when does one become a BK?".

I have to ask - when do we appropriately tar with the same brush whatever they eventually do with what they found there, and when is it their initiative to break out of the BK mould and not discard everything worth applauding?

Please applaud away and, please, the individuals come forward and defend themselves. The OLA/SML merchant caste BKs have been noticeably absent from this forum.

I think this is an important issue to discuss. I think, for me, it comes down to ethics which I consider the Brahma Kumari leadership to be entirely lacking in.

I consider that they do not even understand what 'ethics' mean; for them, only 'expedience' matters. That is to say, what matters most is only that which is to their advantage and how situations and individuals can be manipulated to their advantage.

If, for example, such an option is now clearly stated to all Brahma Kumaris servants and spiritual slaves, and applied equally to all Brahma Kumaris servants and spiritual slaves, then I would say, "fine, that is fair".

However, it is clearly not and it only applies to elite and apparently Western BKs who are useful to the Hindi and Sindi Elite BKs. The little Gujerati girls are all giving up their dowries and wearing hand-me down saris.

"If you White, you're alright.
If you are Brown, stick around.
If you are Black, get back."
(... but if you have Green ($), we're keen!)

What "option" do I mean?

The offer of feeling free to cherry pick the most attractive, gifted and wealthiest BK adherent and set up a family relationship and business using both BK business contacts and the BK Knowledge to do so.

In essence, to 'asset strip' the BKWSU and their investment into, and to make as many personal comforts out of it as possible.

Of course, I could theorise why this is allowed and even respected, and that is because it is precisely what the BK ELite have done themselves ... living off Lekhraj Kirpalani's legacy and asset stripping the Om Mandli for it is worth.

I think the Sindi BK Elite allow the Western BK "Elite" to do this as a a way of keeping ahold of them. They cannot give them promotion, because all the best seats must be taken by Sindi/Hinde women, so they allow them to indulge themselves on the side, and make a bit of income from it as the Sindi Elite have always done.

Culturally, Elite Indian and Sindi BKs might not get away with establishing full sexual, emotional, affectionate and financially beneficial relationships as Elite Western BKs can ... (Sister Shivani is about closest any Indian gets to that) ... but, to me, they in their own time did exaclty the same. Having no other source of income, they turned Lekhraj Kirpalani's religion, or mental illness, into a business to support themselves.

The ethics if discussing specific example breaks down to two levels;

Firstly, the worldly level of libel and defamation laws versus public interest

These are not private individuals in the way you or I might be, they are promoting themselves in the public domain on the basis of their BK involvement, and I believe there is a strong public interest factor to this based on the unequal treatment of BK adherents by their Elite leaders.

Secondly, a Brahmin point of view based on the spiritual values they have or are expounding

If I am slightly deceptively selling my services on the basis of being a Brahma Kumari follower of 28 years, e.g. calling it "Rajyogini rather than BK, should I not be judged by the values and on the principles of being a Brahma Kumari follower? Is it a shame to hide? I am sorry but BKism is not Raja Yoga.

Given that most here agree there's stuff in BK-isms that are wider, more universal, than the BKs themselves, but for many people they see it there in the BKs first, I have to ask - when do we appropriately tar with the same brush whatever they eventually do with what they found there ...

This was the hardest element of what you wrote for me to accept but I understand what you mean; even moreso now that the Brahma Kumaris have become international purveyors of 'New Age' and 'Positive Thinking' snake oil twaddle in order to pay the rents and support the odd business manager; not quite as classy as Deepak Shudra, not quite as whacky as David Yikes.

I think my answer is this ... the Brahma Kumaris that they are the source of all other religions, that all other religion must come to them during the Confluence Age to learn their religion for 2,500 years time. Crazy, I know, but true.

I don't believe in the 5,000 year Cycle. For me, the Brahma Kumaris have just nicked it all from other religions. Their shopfront is full of stolen goods (myths, legends, characters and names). They are, in a way, a fence making their commission off these "stolen religious goods" and poisoning the market of ideas with such ethics. 70% of their output is deception and manipulation and *those* are what individuals learns, not the actual "goods" themselves.

I don't think the world needs religious beggars, hawkers and con women and so I am not very apologetic at all. They are, at worst, exploitive cult leaders; at best, perhaps, like antique dealers who trade in stolen religious artefacts.

Therefore ... I think the world and individuals would be far better off to return the "goods" back to their rightful owners and learn an honest trade themselves. I do not think the Brahma Kumaris teach a very honest trade. I think they teach dishonesty.

A good reply. Thanks for taking a couple of days to think about it and answer soberly (and with wit and charm). I have only short time now, maybe more later...

Q. The broader question becomes "when does one cease being a BK?"

A. The potion/poison, one always remains changed by it. I am thinking of blue-throated Shankar here for anyone who knows their Hindu mythology. When one wakes up to what is going on and can no longer recommend them, perhaps?

As you say, once someone has been in deep enough and long enough, they are changed forever, and that is true of any long term or pronounced experience. My answer to "when does one cease" - I intimate the answer in my reply on another current topic here about brainwashing where I say..

(e.g. the way an ex-fraudster might scam someone and then show them how it was done so they are better prepared).

If one realises not only the "what" but also the "how", and learns to apply that "how" in other ways, one sees psychological patterns are going on all the time, not just BKs "versions" of patterns. We've talked about how people bring their Roman Catholic patterns or their "ambition" patterns etc to the BKs. These can transfer out of the BKs to another group or situation. In effect, were they ever really BKs, or as another Leela (Lila?) once said here, merely hanging their coat on that BK mindframe, then moving it to another one later?

The question is: are you still thinking according to the terms of any particular narrative and rationalisation, framed by that, or are you seeing through that process, aware not only of what's possible within it, but also what else is possible, simply by rejigging a few things ... seeing the space between ...

Then: Do you use that insightful cleverness to close down options and create dependency (in yourself or others) or to expand horizons and options, to liberate? The Trickster is always within.

Cannot say specifically for Marc and Carol, but these business psychology/sale hype/life-coaching type counsellors often present the latter "anything is possible" view, but within themselves they are caught up in the former; a framed "particular" dogma. Many are acolytes of some guru or other.

The latter, "anything possible " is a generalisation for public consumption of their own "particular", it is the kind of rationalisation that says their "coloniser" is really their friend, that the slave owner is kind and a good person who gives generous rations.

It's true Brahma Kumaris are not the first cult members to reinvent themselves as corporate gurus. It's a well establish transition. Once the appeal of slaving for nothing wears off, and normal career paths are made impossible due to the missing years of cult adherence, selling out to the corporations and re-marketing cult philosophy in quasi-managment terms is one of the few way of making one's way back to corporate management level of invoicing.

Many ex-BKs are stuck at minimum wages because they have no education and wasted their years on building up the BKWSU.

I think it's re-selling the experience of all those BK service meetings, BK service events, and BK politics! Corporate types are sold BK spiritualism, or New Age therapy in another guise, for corporate consulting rates.

I must admit, it was not the multiple suicides, the cover up of child sex abuse by the leaders such as Jayanti Kirpalani and Maureen Goodman, the decades of wasted youth and broken families that finally led me to disrespect the BKs - not even all the 'rich and famous' chasing - it was when I was told about how an inner circle of elite Western BKs had started turning it into a money making business for themselves, and were being allowed to cherry pick from amongst the adherents for likely business partners and established a business network. And, in the case of Brian Bacon/OLA, it was clear he used the BKWSU not just for the seed of his enterprise but as a testing ground and advertisement for it too.

I never dreamed they would go as far as cherry picking the best looking or most talented women too. It's nice to see that soul consciousness does not stop one picking the best look BKs rather than the most virtuous ones ...

In my opinion, there is a clear and direct evolution from how BK evangelism in the West started to what these people are doing now. It's only that the codified language and disguises have been stretch even further and that a few add-ons, that the BKWSU proper would not allow, have been thrown into the mix.

In a way, it's not that different from the specialized treatment IPs and VIPs (rich or important people) used to get from the senior BKs ... except that these BKs or demi-BKs can invoice for their time and labor afterwards.

What does the BKWSU get out of it?
Do they empower all of their adherents with the 'know how' of how to start their own businesses using "The Knowledge"?

When I think that BK Empire was built onto of the back of sincere, albeit misguided, Indians and us giving for free our minds, bodies, wealth and property ... and now along come relatively privilege Westerns to cream off the best of it ... I am pretty disgusted really. Never mind however nice or personable they might be on a one to one basis.

It's amazing. In our time we were instructed to find simple jobs that allow our minds to be free to do meditation. I was even told *not* to go into business because it would be too much of a distraction to my mind. And ever center had a poster of Maryadas which said, "individuals come to the center to study spirituality, therefore do not discuss business" (approx). How did they start up an international business network without discussing it ... never mind pick up nice women?

BK apologists now call critics "fundamentalists" because we apparently oppose the lowering of moral standards or cry "hypocrisy" when they now break all their old rules or change their religion. I don't know ... how does that sound to you?

To me, it seems like 'one rule for the BK serfs, and another rule for the high caste BKs'.

I'd like a BK or BKWSU representative to explain it to me and show me in writing how it is now according to their principles.

On the other hand, I suppose it could be individuals taking back 'their' work (service efforts) instead of giving it away to the BKWSU which from a worldly point of view is perfectly reasonable.

In the old days, it would have been against the rules and "eating unripe karmic fruits". The trick the BKs played was that you gave all the money and did all the work for free ... and then you would get palaces of gold and jewels in your next life.

That's still the deal for all the young Indian girls surrendering.

On the other hand, .....

It can be either/or. it can be both. It may be something else , or a combination ... it is what it is.

I am glad I asked the questions for you have supplied very well-considered responses.

Interesting that it was this aspect, of people making it a business, over and above the other issues you raised that became the pivotal issue for you. It did not bother me as much, even though it did feel as if it was somewhat out of kilter with the rest of the BK world, an asymmetric alternative universe?

My concern about this issue is especially for individuals (rather than the morality of this sub-sub-culture), people whom I know to be good hearted, and how this process reinforces and locks in the bourgeois values that pervade the BKSWU, preventing these inherently good people from maturing further philosophically and spiritually and finding their way clear to be themselves fully, rather than a category within the BK glossary of terms, or by-products of a series of events called the BKWSU.

Interesting that it was this aspect, of people making it a business, over and above the other issues you raised that became the pivotal issue for you.

Yes, it was the straw that broke the back of the camel ... or rather finally opened my eyes to the degree of corruption that I could no longer ignore.

It was made moreso by the way in which I was told about it. The individual, a demi-BK or BK supporter, was very defensive about and would not tell me everything. He sense it was contentious and there was a sort of complicity or cover up surrounding it. I guess it was not openly discussed in the BKWSU at the time ... that it just gradually 'happened' via backroom meetings.

If anyone knows anything of the history of how it was introduced, I'd be interested in reading it. How did they decide who was 'in' and who was 'not'? How did the Seniors respond to the idea?

However, at the time, I only knew or a very few incidents of abuse or unfortunate incidents. Since I have discovered that they are far more widespread and the way in which the Brahma Kumaris respond to them is similarly poorly all over the world.

Looking back now, I would say I was still de-sensitized to their seriousness as a BK would be ... Indoctrinated to think in the way the BKs would want, e.g. "weak brick", "their karma", and to retreat into not think or feeling ("just remember Baba") when faced with a difficult situation so that I would just not respond nor risk being "emotional" (the lowest of low) about them.

Perhaps that I do think it is an issue is a reflection of my background where morals and ethics are important and, say, to other cultures where life is cheaper or which are imbued with the idea of negative karma business, corruption and abuse would all be "no big thing" ... normal for religion?

My concern about this issue is especially for individuals ... whom I know to be good hearted, and how this process reinforces and locks in the bourgeois values that pervade the BKSWU, preventing these inherently good people from maturing further philosophically and spiritually and finding their way clear to be themselves ...

Yes, and lower middle class "bourgeois" values too ... the BKs mercantile roots coming to the fore.

Have we, for example, heard of any great BKs going on and leading some noble charity or NPO confronting some terrible issue or writing some great inspiring work?

It does not seem so ... the best we've had so far are business consultants whoring spirituality out to the corporations (including some of the worst on the planet), a few new agey cottage industries and a couple of fairly bogus PhD theses promoting the BKWSU.