Didi Manmohini

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raistlin

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Didi Manmohini

Post22 Jun 2013

Can you tell me something more about Didi Manmohini?

I've never heard of her, until I dropped on the topic on "BKWSU for beginners" one day and there, in the section on the BKWSU history timeline, I read that after L K's death, she became the "Controlling Service" and she died in 1985.
    When she joined the organization? She was "Didi", so she wasn't in the organization from the very start.
    What was she like?
    What was her position in the BKWSU management when she was living?
    Was her function temporary or not?
    How to understand the term "Controlling Service"?
Thank you very much for any provided information about Didi Manmohini.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post23 Jun 2013

Didi and Dadi are interchangeable terms from different dialects.

After 1969, she and Dadi Kumarka were made co-heads of the organisation. Kumarka was the more outgoing personality, the more popular one. Both were from the beginning time of the Om Mandli Manmohini's death was a signal that the forthcoming destruction was close as she was now in the Advance Party with so many others, many stories circulated as to her role...

Like all good folk tales, what the tale itself tells is less important than what it (and the evolution of the tale) reveals about the psychology & beliefs of the folk telling it.
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post23 Jun 2013

For what it is worth, apparently Lekhraj Kirpalani appointed Didi Manmohini to be leader but she was too passive and Kumarka / Prakashmani, being more pushy and dominant, rose to the fore.

The BKs might dispute that but is it possible to believe anything they say now? The pair have been mythologised and making them equals was all part of 'Madhuban politics'. I did find Manmohini to be "retiring" (reserved/modest) although it too long ago for me to really remember. Perhaps Kumarka was more favoured by Ramesh Shah's group?

We never heard what the various factions' positions were, nor what politics went on amongst them except in the most hush, oblique terms. We were not important enough to be told and have our "intellects distracted" by such things.

I don't even know what Manmohini did on a practical level. I just saw her playing the part of BK royalty.

I depresses me the BKs cannot write grown up, adult biographies of their leaders and discuss them in a mature fashion. What little biographical details there are that remain are comic book hagiographies (exaggerate biography of saints or venerated persons, idealizing or idolizing them). Now I am reading they claim Prakashmani "ascended" like a Christ figure.

I do remember Manmohini's death though ... it really shook up the older, original BKs. I remember as a young BKs being bewildered and amused by how emotionally they were ... all shaking, choked and tearful ... "Be stable in Drama" ... and, as usual, it meant a lot of international airfare for the elite to go and re-affirm their position within the organisation by attending the funeral.

We proletariat BKs were not allow to attend.

I could not understand it. did not the Murlis say "eat halva when your mother died"? did not soul consciousness mean that they had not died but just carried on to their next existence ... what was there to be upset about. In truth, it was probably one of the first eye openers I had that the BKs were not as they claimed ... and that they had all transferred their natural 'attachment' to one other.

I never even got any halva out of it.

I guess it was a shock to them because, after Lekhraj Kirpalani and Om Radhe, she was the first big 'original' Brahma Kumari to die and, really, she should not have done so. When was it ... 1983? Destruction was down for 1986. It a sign the end was near!

As Pink wrote elsewhere,
some punk panther wrote:Dadi Kumarka & Didi Manmohini were said in Avyakt Murlis to have a particular role until Destruction, then one after the other died, then decades have passed ... so it's not only Sakar Murlis revised.

Pink will be able to give you more first hand impressions of her. By my generation the leaders were already becoming more distant and protected from the following. They would roll into a lucky few centers like royalty. It would be a special occasion with special treats, and the place would be super-clean and nicely decorated ... however, far more modestly than today with no vulgar over-sized images of *b-o-d-i-e-s*. The Sisters would be wearing brand new saris and give class and dhristi, and then fly out. They were generally warm and brought with them the feel of India which is often lacking in Western centres.

I cannot even remember any of their classes or their personalities. From my memory, their presence was generally eaten up recharging the inner circles. Perhaps they got paraded out to meet some VIP the BKs wanted to impresses as a VIP service event. I don't know ... it's funny how much of a mystery what went on was, to the low ranking neophyte BKs whose donations paid for it all to go on.

Certainly, neither of them spilled the beans on the true history of the BKWSU. I don't think either of them really had any influence in the Western BK movement and neither of them travelled much outside of India. That was left to Janki to play that role. It was her domain.

I don't even know if they travelled much within India.
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moreclearnow

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post23 Jun 2013

A video on Didi Manmohini; in Hindi though

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Pink Panther

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post24 Jun 2013

ex-l, Your description of Manmohini is pretty much what I remember. Not sure if saying Kumarka was "pushy" isn''t too negative a synonym for outward and assertive. Everyone used to make a big deal they they were mentally in synch, two "souls" of one mind etc etc, they used to say DadiDidi, without the "&", the way the term "BapDada" was used as a conjoined name showing the two as one.

Kumarka did travel more than Manmohini. Kumarka famously revealed while answering a question about karma and WW2 that she did not know who Hitler was. That and further enquiry showed that their education was as limited and biased as any student of a Taliban Madrasa - totally geared to the religion, ignorant of objective truths, knowledge of the world being based only on the interpretations given to them by their Seniors or more secularly educated peers, like Dada Anand Kishore etc. Nice people dedicated to their cause and lived by, and for, their mythology.
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Mr Green

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post24 Jun 2013

I was too late to meet her, I heard she was down to earth and fun loving
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raistlin

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post26 Jun 2013

Thanks a lot for all your precious information on Didi.

I watched that film (even though I did not understand a word - I know just few Hindi words), and just as Mr Green said, I had the same impression on Didi Manmohini - down to the earth, caring, loving. So, I could only imagine how devastated the BKs were and lost, when Didi died.

Pink, thanks for explanation on Didi/Dadi meaning. I supposed, that there is no difference between those names as well, and somehow it is just a dialectical matter, but some time ago, when I was a BK, someone told me that "Dadi" can be only called a Senior Sister who was one of the founders, any others are Didis. And I had the similar impression, that Didis are somehow of less importance to the organization, than Dadis.

Well, I could never think of that the leaders of the organization were divided in two, although I supposed that Didi Manmohini was a temporary leader, until they decided Dadi Prakashmani to be the administrative head of the organization.

And that would be my next question. In what circumstances Dadi Kumarka became a leader of the BKWSU? Did it happen just after Didi's death? Or perhaps there was a temporal function for short period of time before Dadi Prakashmani took leadership?

It is really sad, that Didi Manmohini will be remembered for the new students probably only by that name of this horrible resort (Manmohini Complex). No other evident traces of her presence in the past exist.
I wonder whether she used to give any classes or lectures when she lived, or she was just so busy doing the organizational matters, that she was just unable to have time for anything else, but the work she was responsible for.

Oh, by the way. I found some information about Didi Manmohini here: Didi Manmohini 1910-1983. Is this correct ?

They say that:
Didi Manmohini left her mortal coil on the 28th July 1983.

So she died in 1983, not in 1985?
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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post27 Jun 2013

Manmohini and Kumarka were "co-administrative heads" - that's what they were known as, from the mid-70's at least, it was the two of them at the top.

Not sure about ex-l's suggestion; that it was originally only meant to be Manmohini alone as head and Kumarka made some play. I'd need some corroboration or other evidence to show that because that's the first I've heard of it.

When Manmohini died, Janki replaced her to be "co-head" with Kumarka. When Kumarka died, Janki is pretty much the head, although other Dadis & Seniors have input.

ex-l, what is the official stance on the international Hierarchy? Is Janki considered sole head? Is there an official "conclave" or Board? (not for accounting stuff or legal stuff, but for the "spiritual" stuff as per DadiDidi years).
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post27 Jun 2013

Yes, it looks like 1983 is the right year according to the BKWSU. I remember when it happened.

I don't know what the "official stance" on the international 'spiritual hierarchy' is. Obviously, since the problem we caused them they pulled together their international "Global Functioning System" (I cannot remember right now what they call it) which has its headquarters in London. "London" means Jayanti who is Janki's obvious spiritual heir ... they'll be able to sell her on both the connection with Janki and loose family relationship back to Lekhraj Kirpalani.

I understand "Global Functioning System" means, "run it by Jayanti first and she'll do what she likes and suggest you do too". Obviously, Jayanti has her circle advisors like Neville Hodgkinson but I don't who is who these days. Denise, for example, is an interesting character ... where does she fit in these days?

Being a White BK (caucasian), she poses a little bit of a problem and so I doubt they will honor her except in some tokenistic manner ... but valued in other ways, wouldn't she come near to Jayanti?

Although the zones-in-charge have some degree of autonomy, and there might have been "competition of seniority" mostly based on age I would say, none other has risen like Jayanti ... (although the PBKs place their bet on the woman in Africa, BK Vasanti Patel).

I don't know ... I have a problem with the word "spiritual" ... what does it really mean in the BK world? The "most spiritual BK" is probably some unknown little old BK lady in the back of beyond no one knows about and no one listens too ... the one's you see are just the most deluded, ambitious or need ones, aren't they?

Anyway ... back to Manmohini. Yes, in my opinion, she always took a step back and allowed Prakashmani to be the more public figure. At least when she died they did not milk the funeral for all it was politically worth as they do these days and they did not have the habit of deifying their leaders, as they do now.

What the BKs really need to do is invent a time machine so that neophytes can go back to their past and really get to see and feel how it was. The movement really is going downhill spiritually.

They'll be competing with Disney World soon. If they had the budget to build their Disney-fied "Sat Yuga World", they already would be. "Come and meet Mickey ... er, Krishna ... and have your picture taken with a 20 foot high Dadi Janki in front of Om Radhe's palace!"
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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post27 Jun 2013

There used to be a fairly clear delineation between 1st tier and 2nd tier Seniors in terms of "spiritual" rank. Those who were top tier were the most spiritual - the "original jewels" - but there seemed to be tiers 1a and 1b,- some of the "originals who weren't considered as highly.

They were followed in "spiritual status" terms by second-tier people like Jagdish, Nirwair, Ramesh, "little" Mohini, Jayanti, Dr Nirmala Kajaria, Mohini (New York).

The top level (1a and 1b) may not have been involved in much "organisational" formalities and Admin, as the 2nd tier were, but they were 'elders" who were deferred to.
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post27 Jun 2013

The evolution of it all interests me. It seems like they've instituted a system based not on merit but on seniority. Where does this come from?

Something we have heard more than once is the importance of "showing respect" to elders, e.g. big changes won't happen until Janki Kirpalani finally snuffs it in order to "show her respect" ... even if everyone knows that they really no longer run the show. Even when Prakashmani was ga-ga with dimentia ... she was still the leader. It's a little bizarre.

Are they so afraid of the elders' raging egos that everyone has to have a shot ruling the family business ... it's like hereditary power, is not it? Half way between the British Royal Family and the Vatican. No one gets to be king or queen until the old one dies off, and certainly nothing akin to that impure democracy with its presidential elections.

The inner circle meets to make their decision, and then they send out smoke signals to announce the new Pope/Dadi.

Yes, although Didi and Dadi means the same, Dadi always conferred a higher rank. Will Jayanti ever, for example, becoming a Dadi? Just doesn't sound right, does it? "Dadi Jayanti".

Why "Didi" Manmohini? Wasn't it just to alternate the two as most BKs address them by the D-word rather than their name? Jayanti was never a Didi in my day either (Sudesh was). I think some India Bhagat souls started introducing that out of courtly "respect" again.
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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post27 Jun 2013

When seniority or years trump merit, even when there's incapacity due to illness, then eunuchs and other "public servants" nominally at the service of said Seniors have the advantage, often even over those in the line of succession - for some time at least.
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ex-l

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Re: Didi Manmohini

Post27 Jun 2013

Interesting observation. Yes, I am thinking the court of the Chinese Emperor ... it is said that during the Ming Dynasty there were 70,000 eunuchs some of whom gained immense power. The last one died in 1996,

The idea was, that since they were incapable of having children, they would not be tempted to seize power or start a dynasty of their own.

I recently read a paper on the BKs describing their religion in terms not of liberating women, but as an extension of patriarchal control over women's sexuality. Here you add an additional light to that worth exploring.

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